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So I just watched The Last Jedi for the first time... why was it so divisive?
- Thread starter Proven
- Start date
You know, this is not entirely false. The film does kind of feel like that.
My only response in this thread:
Because of group think, coupled with some infectious talking points from the alt-right, mixed with enough legit criticism of pacing issues, less action scenes than normal, and that weird B plot with Finn and Rose (that I like overall).
TLJ is a case study in the current culture wars. Mostly, it's that.
TLJ is one of my favorites also, and has some of my favorite moments and the best acting from Mark Hamill, some of the best moments for Leia in the series and overall, it's the most meta of all Star Wars movies, which I respected a lot.
I thought it was okay...my biggest problem with it was that I have no reason to look forward to the next movie after watching it.
I actually don't hate The Last Jedi. I realize it has a lot of stupid shit like Fin (Phin?) regressing, terrible romance they're trying, Po's stuff, but I like everything with Rey and Kylo. Snoke was a waste though.
Personally I like it.
People seem to be split over how Luke Skywalker, Snoke's role and Reys parents should have been handled.
Some people like the way those things turned out, some don't.
People seem to be split over how Luke Skywalker, Snoke's role and Reys parents should have been handled.
Some people like the way those things turned out, some don't.
I found Episode 8 a little disappointing, especially the first time I saw it, which doesn't mean I didn't love it. I was in tears at several points in the movie.
But I really dislike some of the comedy, especially with Luke (fuck that sabre toss forever, worst moment in the whole series), Rey being noone is boring, Snoke getting killed and Rey and Kylo teaming up was great but then then they took it back and I didn't like it, Luke felt a bit underwhelming, etc.
What Luke did at the end was awesome but I was still hoping for more. The bit where he shows up at the end and about to go out before the First Order still makes my eyes wet. Even if it wasn't quite what I was hoping for, I still enjoyed what we got.
It has a lot of flaws. But I still love it.
But I really dislike some of the comedy, especially with Luke (fuck that sabre toss forever, worst moment in the whole series), Rey being noone is boring, Snoke getting killed and Rey and Kylo teaming up was great but then then they took it back and I didn't like it, Luke felt a bit underwhelming, etc.
What Luke did at the end was awesome but I was still hoping for more. The bit where he shows up at the end and about to go out before the First Order still makes my eyes wet. Even if it wasn't quite what I was hoping for, I still enjoyed what we got.
It has a lot of flaws. But I still love it.
A mixture of cultural proxy wars, the usual internet hyperbole, and people taking Star Wars Way Too Damn Seriously.
Add a smattering of people failing basic media literacy forever and writing far too many words about it, and you have a nice recipe for wanting nothing to do with online Star Wars fandom ever again.
Generally speaking, if a lot of dudes on the internet are hella bothered about a piece of media, it's good advice to just ignore them and give it a chance on your own.
Add a smattering of people failing basic media literacy forever and writing far too many words about it, and you have a nice recipe for wanting nothing to do with online Star Wars fandom ever again.
Generally speaking, if a lot of dudes on the internet are hella bothered about a piece of media, it's good advice to just ignore them and give it a chance on your own.
TLJ is what I needed to have hope in the franchise all over again after watching Episode IV ² and everything that came before
Fully ready to be completely disappointed by Episode IX
Fully ready to be completely disappointed by Episode IX
Kinda yea. Everything besides them felt so disjointed and poorly done. There is a cool story line there but the execution and all the extra characters just made a mess.
if you're blaming anyone other than the creators for the unsurprising controversial response to the movie, you're doing it wrong
2/3 of the movie was boring and almost pointless.
Finn and Poe were characters that I liked in TFA and disliked by the end of the movie.
The Rey-Ben-Luke stuff was compelling enough but there needed to be way more of it. Rey confiding in Ben happened way too fast.
Finn and Poe were characters that I liked in TFA and disliked by the end of the movie.
The Rey-Ben-Luke stuff was compelling enough but there needed to be way more of it. Rey confiding in Ben happened way too fast.
Because some "fans" had their own ideas that didn't happen.
It's at least equal to Empire if not better. TLJ is incredible.
It's at least equal to Empire if not better. TLJ is incredible.
Because the enemy would fire on it before the droid has the time to do anything. You have to remember why Hux didn't fire on Holdo in the film when her ship started to head toward him.
yeah
I want to believe OP is a giant Star Wars fan that somehow hasn't seen a major entry in the franchise but this whole thread premise is probably the biggest troll thread you could pull off without getting banned.
It's entirely possible and maybe even likely that they're being honest but man...what a way to start an internet fight
Absolutely not. Not given how toxic the response from those people were.
Death threats on social media, harassing actresses simply because they're women, literal campaigns on sites like 4chan to review bomb the film, etc.
The creators made a critically acclaimed film. A group of very vocal fans turned it into a controversy because their fan fiction head canon turned out to be nonsense.
That's pretty much how I feel, I think the Luke/Rey/Kylo stuff is pretty good but don't think the rest of the movie is very good, which makes it a pretty mixed bag for me.
Better than TFA as it was at least original and better than any of the prequels (not saying much) but everything outside of Luke/Rey/Kylo was boring and uninspired. Casino Planet, DJ, Rose, and everything with Poe and Leia all fell flat.
I was ok with the Luke stuff except killing him off for no reason.
I was ok with the Luke stuff except killing him off for no reason.
it ended the movie in a weird place that felt like the story kinda peters out and you don't really have a lot to get excited about for the future, but then again you could probably say that about ESB ("Where's Han?!? What happened to Luke's training? What about his dad?!?! What the fuck is the emperor gonna do?!?") and people had to wait for ROTJ.
Episode 9 could turn the trilogy into something great and fun, or it could be disappointing. Hard to judge a story only 2/3's seen. I'm just glad now in a little over 45 days I'll find out. Also in a little over 8 days The Mandalorian debuts, and I'm super excited about that.
Episode 9 could turn the trilogy into something great and fun, or it could be disappointing. Hard to judge a story only 2/3's seen. I'm just glad now in a little over 45 days I'll find out. Also in a little over 8 days The Mandalorian debuts, and I'm super excited about that.
This shit is dumb. Everything posted on here is that person's opinion. There's no need for them to append every sentence with "IMO". That's implicit.
No one's opinion on a movie is "definitive" anyway.
Lol dude I watched it about a year after release and loved it, I remember having the same reaction as you. It was great.
Actually I also had this thought, I thought it was oddly comical at the start
Actually I also had this thought, I thought it was oddly comical at the start
lmaooooooooooo this was one of the criticisms i've heard about the prequels but the reverse! people said they liked the idea that anyone could be a jedi but the prequels ruined that by introducing midichlorians
Because people can have very fundamental differences of opinion when it comes to what a Star Wars movie should be
Also, the gamergate crew got involved, thus warping peoples opinion regarding public opinion of the movie
I loved it, top 2 SW movie for me
Also, the gamergate crew got involved, thus warping peoples opinion regarding public opinion of the movie
I loved it, top 2 SW movie for me
yup, it was sadly too smart and ahead of its time for Star Wars fans
those people are scumbags, no question. but if you can't see why people wouldn't like this supposed masterpiece, then you haven't challenged this movie enough.
this is a movie where luke considers killing his nephew over some bad dreams. does that make sense in ANY family drama, science fantasy or not?
the heroes go to a planet with slave children, and don't free them.
pointing out fan theories being stupid is nonsense when TLJ does worse: it fills the gaps with NOTHING. no one knows who snoke is and now he's dead. rey's parentage is refreshing for like 3 minutes but then you can't explore it anymore. luke spent like 10+ years on an island doing nothing. that's not fun or smart at all.
they are making billions of dollars and are afforded three movies to tell an epic story. if i want to hold them to a higher standard then damn it i will.
Is there anything left to discuss with TLJ at this point?
All I know is that I loved it. It made me happy, and I don't really care that a bunch of people seem to think it's the worst movie ever
All I know is that I loved it. It made me happy, and I don't really care that a bunch of people seem to think it's the worst movie ever
Lol I just love the "you can't dislike this movie or criticize it without being alt-right" narrative.
I've done just fine listing my (many) gripes and never had to worry about this.
If you're being placed in the alt-right category, there's a strong chance that you're saying something that just sucks (in which has nothing to do with expressing a general like or dislike for TLJ).
I've done just fine listing my (many) gripes and never had to worry about this.
If you're being placed in the alt-right category, there's a strong chance that you're saying something that just sucks (in which has nothing to do with expressing a general like or dislike for TLJ).
Right on cue
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And as much as I felt this way when I first saw it, Rose is maybe the only hero character in these movies whose moral compass, ideology, and understanding of the world extends beyond "shoot bad guys in face." Poe being an arrogant asshole is a slap in the face to the fanbase's own alpha-male hotshot power fantasies. Johnson acknowledges a major failing of Finn's character from TFA in that he doesn't actually have any motivation beyond "REEEEYYYYY" and running away. The guy grew up under the First Order, what does he know about thinking critically about the complexities of all these galactic politics?
There are silly moments, bizarre structural choices, and deleted scenes that really should not have been deleted. But there is still a lot of character work that frankly speaks to the weaknesses of the previous film and actually has something to say about Star Wars as escapist fantasy.
I think TLJ is misunderstood more than anything, and one of the biggest ones is taking Kylo Ren at face value when he says this, and when he says her parents were nobodies. He was negging her, not being an omniscient narrator (Also let the past die was said by KyloRen as part of his trying to convince Rey to join him)
Yes. It makes sense for someone like Luke -- who has always been shown as brash and acting before thinking -- to come close to making a terrible decision.
I've literally never heard this complaint until now. How in the world were they supposed to free all of the slave children on that planet?
It isn't important.
... Because it was solved. So it doesn't need to be explored. What a strange complaint.
Yes, that was literally the point. He secluded himself. He didn't go on vacation, so yes, he did nothing.
And this is kind of the problem I have so often. You're really nitpicking.
The entire point of that scene is that Kylo wasn't lying and that Rey already knew it but was lying to herself.
Perhaps they will retcon this in IX -- I refuse to look at spoilers -- but as it was written in TLJ, it was absolutely meant to be taken at face value.
It subverted expectations - Everyone that liked it
Making bold choices like killing off a character that was built up to be this all encompassing dictator that we know nothing about and do not get any details about certainly subverts expectations, but it does not make the movie good.
I enjoyed parts of TLJ, but it was plagued with bad writing, lack of character development and threatened the overall continuity of the series.
Making bold choices like killing off a character that was built up to be this all encompassing dictator that we know nothing about and do not get any details about certainly subverts expectations, but it does not make the movie good.
I enjoyed parts of TLJ, but it was plagued with bad writing, lack of character development and threatened the overall continuity of the series.
This is my favorite kind of TLJ post.
OP got dooped by a zealous vocal minority that actually believe deep down inside that they aren't the minority.
OP is fan of Star Wars but didn't watch it until now?
Not buying it.
Their reasoning is they heard some didn't like it.
Still not buying it and learn to form your own opinions.
Not buying it.
Their reasoning is they heard some didn't like it.
Still not buying it and learn to form your own opinions.
He was playing on her insecurities. Dude is a PUA through and through
I'm gonna post this video, as I usually do when I engage in TLJ threads, because as much as I love it and appreciate it for basically being a SW movie that in ways acknowledged how I felt about the franchise and the fandom at the time, the side plots did a fairly poor job of communicating their purpose to the audience.
Canto Bight as a story arc was meant to be where Finn gets a chance to run away for good like he's been trying to do since TFA. DJ is the devil on one shoulder, Rose is the angel on the other. The war profiteers (an awesome idea that is ripe for exploring in this universe imo) serve as evidence that the Resistance has its own faults and, just like how the New Republic splintered over whether or not to have an army - which led to the First Order's swift conquering of the galaxy - them winning might not lead to the happy, peaceful outcome everyone seems to expect. Rose's simple act of freeing the animals and inspiring those kids is framed as a decision borne of love, which is why she corrects Finn when his reaction focused on how it good it felt to stick it to the rich folks in the casino. These two perspectives were there to challenge Finn to finally make his decision, and when he does.... well, I think the vid explains it better than I can:
The vid focuses a bit much on "letting the past die" as a message of the film, which isn't really the best takeaway from the movie as has already been discussed in this thread, but as a general theme that was explored it resonated with me on a few levels.