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ClarkusDarkus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,724
I would like to pick up an oculus quest, but I'm afraid it will have a super limited selection of games to play. And I'm not going to buy a pc just to play vr

Thats the reason i am not buying the Quest to be fair, I already own a VR headset, I dont need to buy another to play the same games/experiences that aren't of the bigger variety like RE7, Borderlands, Skyrim, Lone Echo, Stormland etc.

All it seems it will get is the bitesized games and rhythm based games.

Perfect for those that are fine with that though, Quest 2 hopefully will have way more power to play the bigger titles.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
It's pretty mind-blowing the first time and does feel like your actual in a real location but the sickness feeling and eye strain keep me off it.
I think quest is better in this regard though.

Also I think spending long amounts of time in VR feels even less healthy then sitting down in front of a TV, which is not good.
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
I'm not the type to be easily impressed by tech. The games I played were Tetris Effect, Astro Bot, RE7 and Superhot. I really liked Superhot (the short time it lasts anyway) I did feel VR added something to Superhot, but Astro Bot, while it had its moments, I could absolutely see working as a non-VR game (please don't quote me, this is my opinion, I know people disagree). Tetris Effect in VR was useless imo, I played it without VR and had just as much fun, it added nothing for me. RE7 made me sick within minutes so I can't really comment on that one.

Like I said I do see potential in it, but PSVR is not it.
Doesn't sound like you got far through Astro Bot. It only gets better as time goes on. I'd advise you play more of the game before making a judgement.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,673
The Milky Way
Where / how often are there sales like this?

I am also considering a Quest vs PSVR. Being wireless is a plus for Quest, but I don't like the idea of Facebook owning Oculus. And, PSVR definitely has a super appealing lineup to me:

Astrobot
Moss
Superhot
Tetris Effect
Beat Saber
and I'm sure I'm missing many more.

That and I've been really wanting to play Spiderman, God of War and Horizon.

Anyway, I'm one of those that's only experienced cardboard VR (both Google and Labo) and I've been super impressed even with those. I remember when I got my Google Cardboard, it was a promotion they were doing for Star Wars: The Force Awakens. On the official Star Wars app they had some 360 demos. One was on Jakku, and the Millennium Falcon came zooming in from "behind". I turned my entire body and followed it flying around. At that moment I was sold 100% on the concept, and that was on the crappy resolution of my Nexus 6 phone with a free cardboard headset.
Just FYI: Moss, Superhot and Beat Saber are all on the Oculus Quest too.
 

mxbison

Banned
Jan 14, 2019
2,148
Where / how often are there sales like this?

I am also considering a Quest vs PSVR. Being wireless is a plus for Quest, but I don't like the idea of Facebook owning Oculus. And, PSVR definitely has a super appealing lineup to me:

Astrobot
Moss
Superhot
Tetris Effect
Beat Saber
and I'm sure I'm missing many more.

That and I've been really wanting to play Spiderman, God of War and Horizon.

Anyway, I'm one of those that's only experienced cardboard VR (both Google and Labo) and I've been super impressed even with those. I remember when I got my Google Cardboard, it was a promotion they were doing for Star Wars: The Force Awakens. On the official Star Wars app they had some 360 demos. One was on Jakku, and the Millennium Falcon came zooming in from "behind". I turned my entire body and followed it flying around. At that moment I was sold 100% on the concept, and that was on the crappy resolution of my Nexus 6 phone with a free cardboard headset.

If you already enjoyed cardboard VR you will absolutely love the real thing.

Depends where you live. I've seen the ps4 for like 230€ and psvr for 200€ in Europe, I think the US gets it cheaper.

I actually don't agree with the opinion that wired is holding VR back, imo there is no need for wireless right now. Wireless will be necessary to lay in bed and watch a movie or browse the internet in VR. We are not at that point yet.
When you sit or stand in front of your console and play a VR game, you pretty much forget the wire anyway.

The games lineup is definitely much much better on PSVR, especially if you're also interested in non-vr games.
 

Patch13

Member
Oct 27, 2017
398
New England
... PSVR is far from the top tier experience though. Unless you mistyped. You want a Vive or Rift with full roomscale tracking and a high end machine. I've had friends over who only played PSVR and thought it was okay but got blown away by my Vive set up.

The Vive doesn't solve the problems I identified though. It still only addresses half the depth perception problem, and none of the physical feedback issues. A sword in Skyrim VR is just never going to feel as tactile and satisfying as a real sword. Or even a boffer weapon. VR is cool, but I really do feel more like a specter than a fully embodied human.

Plus, for the same cost as a VR rig, I can take a trip to Poland and play a post apocalypse larp in an old fallout shelter, or go to Boston and play a Star Wars inspired larp on an old battle ship. Yes, those are one time experiences, and there is some sense in which they're on a continuum with VR, in terms of immersive, interactive stuff. But the OP asked whether VR makes you feel like you're really there, and I'm not sure that I'd describe the sense of presence you get from VR as being that powerful, or necessarily worth the expense and discomfort of the equipment.

While it's true variable focal-length hasn't been possible 'yet' (lots of R&D on the topic on-going), all the headsets have you focused on a fixed point far away from you (varies from being a few meters in front of you to infinite depending on the headset). If that wasn't the case - you'd be unable to focus on anything in the image alltogether. While you may be able to perceive flatness (if you focus on the pixel grid spacing for example), your brain does not perceive it as anything "inches away from your face".

This is a good point. It would be more correct for me to say that VR is more like looking at a flat screen through a magnifying glass. Still only one plane, and I'm not sure that it is mechanically or computationally plausible to track the eye and change the lens geometry fast enough to keep up with a human, though.

... in any case, thank you for helping me refine the point. It's useful to have a concrete explanation for why VR doesn't quite do it for me, but I'd rather the explanation be as accurate as possible :-)
 
Mar 29, 2018
7,078
The Vive doesn't solve the problems I identified though. It still only addresses half the depth perception problem, and none of the physical feedback issues. A sword in Skyrim VR is just never going to feel as tactile and satisfying as a real sword. Or even a boffer weapon. VR is cool, but I really do feel more like a specter than a fully embodied human.

Plus, for the same cost as a VR rig, I can take a trip to Poland and play a post apocalypse larp in an old fallout shelter, or go to Boston and play a Star Wars inspired larp on an old battle ship. Yes, those are one time experiences, and there is some sense in which they're on a continuum with VR, in terms of immersive, interactive stuff. But the OP asked whether VR makes you feel like you're really there, and I'm not sure that I'd describe the sense of presence you get from VR as being that powerful, or necessarily worth the expense and discomfort of the equipment.

Yeah I get you, it's fair enough and a very valid point. That said, I disagree, the experience I get from my Vive definitely makes me feel like I'm there. I never feel like I'm looking at a screen through a magnifying glass but that I'm looking at an actual world that surrounds me. Or at least at a world through a magnifying glass ;)

So what do you think of Magic Leap's solution?
 

Arthands

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,039
Restricting to sitting down or standing for VR is missing out the fun or many VR titles. No one's going to fucking play Pavlov VR or Beat Saber sitting down, lol. Therefore wireless and room scale are big deals
 

mxbison

Banned
Jan 14, 2019
2,148
Restricting to sitting down or standing for VR is missing out the fun or many VR titles. No one's going to fucking play Pavlov VR or Beat Saber sitting down, lol. Therefore wireless and room scale are big deals

The wire doesn't stop you from playing standing or moving. Beat Saber works just fine on PSVR.
 

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,278
Munich
Ever since I got my PSVR it has taken up most of my gaming time.

The titles I spent the most time with are Wipeout Omega Collection and Beat Saber.
I have been a Wipeout fan since I got Wipeout Pure for PSP back in 2005, but VR added a totally new feel to the game. I had never played in first person before, but I was actually better in first person in VR than I was in 3rd person view in which I had played for over a decade.
Wipeout is not for everyone and it takes a very long time to really get the hand of it, but I think it can be appreciate how awesome it plays and feels in videos.


In my opinion the Omega Collection is the most complete racing game out there. Like something straight out of the fantasy of a teen in the 90s when they were imagining what the future would be like.

Beat Saber is completely different experience, obviously.
I never was into rhythm games and never played and instrument, so I was skeptical when I bought it just because it looked so cool. But the game immediately clicked for me and I love it to death now.
I also never expected VR to be a social experience when I bought it. I thought I would be playing it alone 99% of the time. But Beat Saber really works well as a party game. PSVR is easy enough to to strap on and everyone(in my experience so far, based on ≈ 15 people I played with) can quickly pick up Beat Saber and have fun. By now the party leaderboards are pretty full on Hard, Expert and Expert+ and its one of the most fun activities I can imagine when having people over.

Apart from that, Beat Saber also elevates the way you experience music if you ask me. I really love the tracks in the game and so far I haven't gotten tired of the selection.
Beat Saber is also quite the work out.



I haven't really gotten into any other VR games, because these two take up all my time.
They feel exactly like what you'd imagine to feel when racing at breakneck speeds in an anti-gravity craft or when slicing up cubes with light sabers to a nice beat respectively.

I constantly baffled by how small the Wipeout and Beat Saber community on Era is, considering how awesome these are.
 

Deleted member 46922

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 21, 2018
595
At first I tried a few headsets from friends, because I didn't have the money, and it was like living a technical dream for me.
When I did have the money, I went with the Oculus Go, because I'm not only gaming on VR, but also watching movies and experiences (and sometimes porn, like most people, but not that much).
But the SDE and limited FOV and refresh rate gets on my nerves and now I'm not impressed at all anymore.

It's just like all other technical things, you get used to something pretty quickly.
So, this coming week I'm gonna try the HP Reverb, and I'm quite certain it's gonna be a gamechanger at first, but I'm convinced I will be left wanting more after a few months.

The road to VR is gonna be a long one for me, I think. But you will be amazed for a couple of weeks, so there's that. :)
 

PopsMaellard

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,361
Where / how often are there sales like this?

I am also considering a Quest vs PSVR. Being wireless is a plus for Quest, but I don't like the idea of Facebook owning Oculus. And, PSVR definitely has a super appealing lineup to me:

Astrobot
Moss
Superhot
Tetris Effect
Beat Saber
and I'm sure I'm missing many more.

That and I've been really wanting to play Spiderman, God of War and Horizon.

Anyway, I'm one of those that's only experienced cardboard VR (both Google and Labo) and I've been super impressed even with those. I remember when I got my Google Cardboard, it was a promotion they were doing for Star Wars: The Force Awakens. On the official Star Wars app they had some 360 demos. One was on Jakku, and the Millennium Falcon came zooming in from "behind". I turned my entire body and followed it flying around. At that moment I was sold 100% on the concept, and that was on the crappy resolution of my Nexus 6 phone with a free cardboard headset.

PSVR is really neat for a budget setup, and Moss and Astrobot are two of the best VR games I've ever played. That said, presence is hard to achieve without good hand tracking and being able to walk around, even if the space you have is small, and PSVR can't accommodate properly for either of those. I'd rather have a slightly worse software selection with roomscale and hand tracking than the somewhat better PSVR library with worse tracking, no roomscale and mostly seated experiences.
 

Theef

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 3, 2017
755
When wearing a VR helmet, you experience an intense desire for the next gaming trend to come around.
 

Android Sophia

The Absolute Sword
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,110
One of my friends was so immersed in Rez Infinite that they nearly tripped playing it on my Vive.

It's such a surreal experience. There's nothing else like it.
 

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,988
North Carolina
I don't get to play in VR often but one time I was playing and I had to grab an object that happened to be over a sewer grate kinda thing and I was literally reaching over as far as I could not to fall through it. VR tricked my brain and it was wild.
 

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,278
Munich
If you could play it with comfort settings off, is ever better!

You mean locking the camera to pilot? I don't do that because then I usually take a hit on my lap times because the barrel rolls become a bit disorienting.
Especially when you try to do rolls in areas where you have to pull up the nose of the ship to even get enough air for a roll.
Locking to pilot but staying put during rolls would be the way to go.
 

Devilgunman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,455
It's the same feeling when, as a kid, I locked my room, turned off all the light and focused 100% on gaming in front of me. It's nostalgic feeling. When playing VR, you're committing 100% on video game. You shut yourself out of everything around you (phone, internet, gf, wife, kids, pets etc).
 

Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,066
This is a good point. It would be more correct for me to say that VR is more like looking at a flat screen through a magnifying glass. Still only one plane, and I'm not sure that it is mechanically or computationally plausible to track the eye and change the lens geometry fast enough to keep up with a human, though.
With sufficiently high pixel density (the so called retina-DPI to borrow Apple's PR) you wouldn't need mechanical adaptation as it could be done entirely in software (eye-tracking sensors are already low-latency enough to accomodate for eye movement). Though anything that involves eye-tracking may have other problems.
That said there's plenty of research into mechanical solutions as well, like noted, it's a very active R&D field.l https://www.roadtovr.com/researcher...brane-mirror-vergence-accommodation-conflict/

... in any case, thank you for helping me refine the point. It's useful to have a concrete explanation for why VR doesn't quite do it for me, but I'd rather the explanation be as accurate as possible :-)
There may well be other issues at hand as well. While 90hz refresh (or 75/below for mobile headset users) is sufficiently high to alleviate discomfort for most part, it's not enough to fool everyone's brain equally (and I'd even argue as you get accustomed to it, that barrier rises). FOV restrictions also have a variable effect on the perceived sense of presence, and obviously so does the pixel density. All of these are probably going to be solved earlier than variable FOV though.
 

afrodubs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,093
At first I tried a few headsets from friends, because I didn't have the money, and it was like living a technical dream for me.
When I did have the money, I went with the Oculus Go, because I'm not only gaming on VR, but also watching movies and experiences (and sometimes porn, like most people, but not that much).
But the SDE and limited FOV and refresh rate gets on my nerves and now I'm not impressed at all anymore.

It's just like all other technical things, you get used to something pretty quickly.
So, this coming week I'm gonna try the HP Reverb, and I'm quite certain it's gonna be a gamechanger at first, but I'm convinced I will be left wanting more after a few months.

The road to VR is gonna be a long one for me, I think. But you will be amazed for a couple of weeks, so there's that. :)
Oculus Go? It's only 3DoF.... Of course it's a bit underwhelming. You need to get a 6DoF headset.
 

Deleted member 46922

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 21, 2018
595
Oculus Go? It's only 3DoF.... Of course it's a bit underwhelming. You need to get a 6DoF headset.

Your answer is actually in the quote. HP Reverb this coming week. But I want more than just good gaming experiences, so I do understand that for pure gaming the Index will be more attractive to most users. :)
 

Overture

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,595
Portugal
Feels great, I considered for a long while before buying the Vive but when that shit got here and I got everything in place it was glorious. The first few minutes of every play session does indeed feel like you're there but watching everything with a ski mask on, but that feeling sort of goes away for me after a while and I get completely immersed.

I've had incredible experiences, I even had tears in my eyes at some point and not because of eye strain, but because I was at a space station, looking out into space and the sense of scale blew me the fuck away and seeing my friend in-game while we talked about how fucking insane that was made it all the better.

I used to play Elite Dangerous in "2D" but it really surprised me when I tried it in VR, the scale of everything just catches you off guard.

VR is intense, scary, gorgeous, immersive, it's incredibly fun and just seeing others play and discover it for the first time is like my favorite thing. I've had friends stay over and they never wanted to stop playing Super Hot. Even my mother got hooked playing a little archery mini-game that comes with the Vive.

It's not perfect, you miss the tactile feeling of everything when part of your brain is being so efficiently tricked and some games really make you feel like you're just a disembodied presence when nothing reacts to you, but that's a case by case thing. I'm glad more headsets are getting out there, more people need to experience this.
 

PandaShake

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,463
When I used the vive, it truely feels like I'm there to me. Room scale is immersive. During the steam setup tutorial in the white lab, I was terrified when ground opened up and the couch? moved into the ground. It felt like I was in a world where I had no control so I was afraid it would fuck with me because that was how immersed I was in it.
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
Finished it. Why do people assume I didn't? Because I didn't think it was the second coming of Christ? It was solid.
The part where you said it would work as a non-VR game. It would be extremely different.

Anyone who has played through it fully should understand that depth perception is a requirement to make a bunch of jumps without it being a frustrating mess of trial and error. They should also understand that there is no way to have the main mechanic being that you exist as an entity in the world alongside Astro.
 

Doctor_Thomas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,652
VR is interesting.

Even on my phone on a fairly unimpressive rollercoaster sim thing, I still found myself moving with the track.

You need to experience VR for it to make sense, which is why I think it's had a hard time gaining traction.
 

eXistor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,297
The part where you said it would work as a non-VR game. It would be extremely different.

Anyone who has played through it fully should understand that depth perception is a requirement to make a bunch of jumps without it being a frustrating mess of trial and error. They should also understand that there is no way to have the main mechanic being that you exist as an entity in the world alongside Astro.

I'm saying with some obvious retooling Astro Bot could be a non-VR title and be just as fun.
 

Deleted member 984

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,203
I'm saying with some obvious retooling Astro Bot could be a non-VR title and be just as fun.

I don't think it would be half as fun although possible from a gameplay perspective it would fundamentally be a different game.

Many of the best elements are the experiential moments. The gameplay is solid but elevated by being there, it's not just the big set pieces but the small details, how the world interacts with you, characters mimic you and that most things are designed to create a sense of eye contact and smile when that does occur. None of which from the big to the small can be conveyed through a traditional screen.
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
I'm saying with some obvious retooling Astro Bot could be a non-VR title and be just as fun.
I don't think anyone would seriously agree with you. The developers themselves said it would never be as good if they made a spinoff without VR.

You're literally arguing against the fundamental principles of game design here.
 

Rygar 8Bit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,880
Site-15
What I mean is, the "immersion" that people keep harping on about is neat for like a minute, but that means nothing if a game doesn't do more. I've literally seen people saying it's "enough to just see the world around you". It just seems like people are really easily convinced by VR by simply seeing the world around them. I'm not, that's all I'm saying. Of course there are games that offer you proper gameplay, but I've just seen so many comments around that seem to focus on the most shallow aspect of VR.

Yeah seeing the world around you is cool, but it's interacting with everything with roomscale that brings it together.
Some Sword & Sorcery.
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eXistor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,297
I don't think anyone would seriously agree with you. The developers themselves said it would never be as good if they made a spinoff without VR.

You're literally arguing against the fundamental principles of game design here.
As much as it pains me to disagree with someone who has a Nick Cave avatar, no, it really wouldn't.
I know I'm the outlier here, but to me it's painfully obvious it would absolutely be possible. I just can't agree with you guys. But it's clear we'll never see eye to eye on this matter so I think I'll just leave the thread, I feel like I'm in bizarro world anyway.
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
I know I'm the outlier here, but to me it's painfully obvious it would absolutely be possible. I just can't agree with you guys. But it's clear we'll never see eye to eye on this matter so I think I'll just leave the thread, I feel like I'm in bizarro world anyway.
What about Beat Saber? Would you say that would be as fun without VR? If so, then it probably means you're not getting anything from the immersive nature of VR.

Fundamentally, everyone should/will get something from it because human biology dictates we should, but it's possible that the tech isn't there for you yet. I'd imagine with PSVR2, it probably would be.
 

Deleted member 31333

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,216
I'm not the type to be easily impressed by tech. The games I played were Tetris Effect, Astro Bot, RE7 and Superhot. I really liked Superhot (the short time it lasts anyway) I did feel VR added something to Superhot, but Astro Bot, while it had its moments, I could absolutely see working as a non-VR game (please don't quote me, this is my opinion, I know people disagree). Tetris Effect in VR was useless imo, I played it without VR and had just as much fun, it added nothing for me. RE7 made me sick within minutes so I can't really comment on that one.

Like I said I do see potential in it, but PSVR is not it.
Most of the games you played are static sit-down experiences aside from Superhot. Most of the best PSVR exclusives fall in to that category.

Where VR really shines is room scales experiences like Superhot which is probably why that's the game you enjoyed the most. Unfortunately room scale is where PSVR is lacking - poor tracking, can't turn 360 degrees, move controllers, and limited movement.

If you want a cheap way in to VR and don't care about room scale, the PSVR is your best option (assuming you already own a PS4)

If you want room scale VR, get a Quest or look at PCVR if you can afford it.
 

Deleted member 984

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,203
What about Beat Saber? Would you say that would be as fun without VR? If so, then it probably means you're not getting anything from the immersive nature of VR.

Fundamentally, everyone should/will get something from it because human biology dictates we should, but it's possible that the tech isn't there for you yet. I'd imagine with PSVR2, it probably would be.

There are a few technical reasons why this could be happening however if a user is saying they don't get the point of presence after saying they have experienced it within VR then I don't think they play a factor, though it is a curiosity when many of the games mentioned are designed to trigger specific involuntarily responses, if presence isn't engaged then they shouldn't be triggered but if it is then they should be triggered and thus the understanding of VR.
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,139
I just can't really recommend buying really anything outside PCVR space (potentially PS4) because of support issues. The PCVR headsets will continue to be supported and forwards compatible for quite a while yet. But the Quest I feel like will probably start to run into issues and be retired relatively quickly as that space advances. And you can't upgrade the hardware to my knowledge. PSVR I can say if you find it cheap enough go ahead. Because you'll find support for it for a while yet. But it's not a full VR headset imo with it's poor motion controller and more limited tracking. So the only cheap options I can really recommend right now are Oculus Rift/S and the higher end of WMR.
 

dragn

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
881
if you have the money go for pimax, the fov is amazing
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,139
if you have the money go for pimax, the fov is amazing
If they were getting it for the rate I did during the Kickstarter I'd say absolutely. But I think they are priced too high now. Especially with the Index realistically doing 120° probably and 120-144hz low persistence. Either way though the Vive ecosystem is a good choice. Especially if you can pick up an original Vive from someone on the cheap.
 

I KILL PXLS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,540
I know I'm the outlier here, but to me it's painfully obvious it would absolutely be possible. I just can't agree with you guys. But it's clear we'll never see eye to eye on this matter so I think I'll just leave the thread, I feel like I'm in bizarro world anyway.
With some adjustments sure, it's possible. But kind of like how Rock Band is possible with a regular controller. It could be done but wouldn't be as fun and would be sort of missing the point.
 

hibikase

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,820
VR feels like you are having a dream due to the disconnect of body and stimuli, and the dream ends when you remove the headset
 
Oct 28, 2017
27,119
I wish I didnt get sick playing, but i do so its not for me.


AR is more my speed but I dont think there are high end AR gaming.
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
I wish I didnt get sick playing, but i do so its not for me.


AR is more my speed but I dont think there are high end AR gaming.
You should be fine if your IPD is correct, you are running at 90 FPS, and all movement is done via your body. So games like Beat Saber, Moss, and SuperHot should be fine.

AR would feel basically no different.
 
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travisbickle

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,953
I've literally seen people saying it's "enough to just see the world around you". It just seems like people are really easily convinced by VR by simply seeing the world around them.


Lol, it's called "virtual reality" seeing the world around you is the point.

Some of you guys need to live in the moment more, stop over-analyzing things and expecting more than is available.
 

danhz

Member
Apr 20, 2018
3,238
I tried the google cardboard and they were amazing.
In next gen with a powerful enough console ill buy psvr2