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Topics

  • Yes.

    Votes: 305 47.1%
  • No.

    Votes: 342 52.9%

  • Total voters
    647

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
Im hoping this is what JJ is alluding too when he said giving an ending to 3 trilogies worth of movies. Obviously the job was not finished in episode 6, stupid I know but what can you do.

There will be some over arching darkness that they need to deal with. Obviously hinted at, at the moment by The Emporers laugh. But I think it wont be as on the nose as that.

Would provide a lot of context if the First Order was literally a vanguard for the New Empire and Snoke was just the guy in charge of it. Then they could bring in characters like Sloane, who have been major parts of videogames and novels, as imperial officers even higher up the food chain than he was.

Would be quite the bait and switch if the guy implied to be the Emperor character of the new trilogy was actually the apprentice of the Emperor of the other two.

That'd mean Luke, Leia and Han didn't fail... they just didn't finish the job.
 

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
This is on point and I said something in a similar vein. Lucas new when to end the story. Disney didn't. If they wanted to tell a depressing story, they should have populated it with their own characters. Lucas told a depressing story about the fall of a Republic and his main character, but he had the good sense to not mess with RotJ ending. The stories of those characters were complete, there was no reason to drag them out and shoot them in the back in a dark alley just to have their passing the torch moment. They could have acknowledged their legacy and growth by showing that they have won their happiness, or they should have skipped a generation and made them a part of history. The ST is neither here nor there, a product of corporate greed with no thought put into it other than how to maximize profits.

you know this is bullshit when the ST literally got story beats from Lucas original idea for the ST lol

"knew when to end the story" my ass
 

CassCade

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,037
They had peace for awhile, that alone is worth a lot, just because something gets undone in the future doesn't render the accomplishment trivial.
 

BocoDragon

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,207
There are stories about happy endings and there are depressing stories about futility. The OT was the former, the ST made it the latter. What is there not to get?



This is on point and I said something in a similar vein. Lucas new when to end the story. Disney didn't. If they wanted to tell a depressing story, they should have populated it with their own characters. Lucas told a depressing story about the fall of a Republic and his main character, but he had the good sense to not mess with RotJ ending. The stories of those characters were complete, there was no reason to drag them out and shoot them in the back in a dark alley just to have their passing the torch moment. They could have acknowledged their legacy and growth by showing that they have won their happiness, or they should have skipped a generation and made them a part of history. The ST is neither here nor there, a product of corporate greed with no thought put into it other than how to maximize profits.
Great irony here:

In the 70s and 80s, the OT was intended to be the middle of three trilogies, and ROTJ was not intended to be the end of anything. That movie was originally shot with the idea that there would be a 7, 8, 9 continuing the story afterwards.

It was only by the 90s when Lucas decided to cap the series at two trilogies (PT and OT) that he literally went and changed the ending of ROTJ in the special editions to be the end of the whole saga by showing celebration on multiple worlds implying the Empire was done and the the events of ROTJ had ended them.
 
Oct 28, 2017
13,691
The "This is how things really happen" excuse blows my mind.

Reminds me of the Dragonlance character Tanis, who was the leader of the band of heroes of many many books who saved the world. And how does he go out? Stabbed in the back by a random soldier on a battlefield.

I recall a chat with the author and he was asked "WTF with the lame death of Tanis"? His answer: It was an homage to real soldiers on real battlefields, who could be standing next to one second then dead the next.

I don't need reality in my fantasy worlds. I use these to escape reality. I want my heroes to continue to be heroic. Reality is harsh enough.

Who from the OT3 isn't heroic in these movies? What matters is where a character ends up now where he/she has started. Han is heroic for trying to save his son. Leia is heroic for still pressing on despite all the losses she's faced, Luke is heroic for giving his life for the Resistance. Sorry but I'm not seeing the lack of heroism.
 

Mockerre

Story Director
Verified
Oct 30, 2017
630
Like I said above, Lucasfilm was in pre-production on episodes 7-9 before the buyout, which would have included the OT3, an exiled Luke and potentially Palpatine. Do you not not think Lucas's trilogy would have had the old heroes failing in some way?

https://mashable.com/2013/10/07/george-jett-lucas-abrams-star-wars-episode-vii/

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-episode-7-8-9-story-george-lucas/

We will never know how that would turn out in the end. In ESB pre-production, the Hoth base was supposed to be attacked by an army of Wampas, so... things change. Anyway, Lucas is not beyond scrutiny, the Prequels are uneven; but we're talking about what Disney did not what Lucas could.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,290
Yo what the hell

The last time I used evidence outside of the film's script (from Star Wars itself, even, not irl like the person you replied to) you said:
The state of the new republic is not outside the script. We literally see the destruction of the new republic. Aka the destruction of peace.

The urgency to get Luke is because the FO is literally in the process of taking over after destroying the peaceful republic.

REY: There is no light left in Kylo Ren. He's only getting stronger. The First Order will control all the major systems within weeks. We need your help. We need the Jedi Order back.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,266
The state of the new republic is not outside the script. We literally see the destruction of the new republic. Aka the destruction of peace.

The urgency to get Luke is because the FO is literally in the process of taking over after destroying the peaceful republic.

REY: There is no light left in Kylo Ren. He's only getting stronger. The First Order will control all the major systems within weeks. We need your help. We need the Jedi Order back.

What does any of that have to do with the quote "nothing ever lasts"?
 

Mockerre

Story Director
Verified
Oct 30, 2017
630
Great irony here:

In the 70s and 80s, the OT was intended to be the middle of three trilogies, and ROTJ was not intended to be the end of anything. That movie was originally shot with the idea that there would be a 7, 8, 9 continuing the story afterwards.

It was only by the 90s when Lucas decided to cap the series at two trilogies (PT and OT) that he literally went and changed the ending of ROTJ in the special editions to be the end of the whole saga by showing celebration on multiple worlds implying the Empire was done and the the events of ROTJ had ended them.

I think you're missing the point. It's not that there are episodes 7, 8 and 9, it's what they are.
 

Deleted member 8860

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,525
It sucks, but yeah. Sometimes it feels like the only reason they made a new trilogy was just to hurt fans of the OT.

Could be worse. JJ could have gone full Chrono Cross.
The "This is how things really happen" excuse blows my mind.

Reminds me of the Dragonlance character Tanis, who was the leader of the band of heroes of many many books who saved the world. And how does he go out? Stabbed in the back by a random soldier on a battlefield.

I recall a chat with the author and he was asked "WTF with the lame death of Tanis"? His answer: It was an homage to real soldiers on real battlefields, who could be standing next to one second then dead the next.

I don't need reality in my fantasy worlds. I use these to escape reality. I want my heroes to continue to be heroic. Reality is harsh enough.

No one need shed tears for Tanis, a character defined entirely by his indecision between Betty and Veronica. Besides, not everyone can go out like Sturm.
 
Oct 28, 2017
13,691
We will never know how that would turn out in the end. In ESB pre-production, the Hoth base was supposed to be attacked by an army of Wampas, so... things change. Anyway, Lucas is not beyond scrutiny, the Prequels are uneven; but we're talking about what Disney did not what Lucas could.

You claimed that Lucas knew when to end the story but that is factually untrue since we know, for a fact, that he planned to make a new trilogy, which would have included the OT3. Now you're talking about how things would have turned out when you originally said it wouldn't have happened at all. Talk about shifting an argument LOL
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,290
What does any of that have to do with the quote "nothing ever lasts"?
Peace very clearly didn't last as we literally start the story at the part where peace gets blown up. We don't see the 30 years of peace, because the films are about the destruction of it from the perspective of protagonists with humble origins.
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,374
I feel like there's a middle ground between happily ever after and absolute failure that could have worked.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,266
Peace very clearly didn't last as we literally start the story at the part where peace gets blown up.

Again, that has nothing to do with the quote "Peace never lasts." They didn't say "peace didn't last in this singular instance," they said that "peace never lasts", thus implying that they're using things outside of the text to go against the OP's question.
 
Apr 21, 2018
6,969
This is my biggest issue with the new trilogy. It doesn't make the universe bigger like Ep.1-3 did, it somehow makes it feel much, much smaller to me.

I think it's kind of obvious TFA was a retread of A New Hope, made in a JJ Abrhams focus testing group.
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,809
Somehow the prequel trilogy managed to be different movies about different things even though it is star wars. Imagine that. The movies might be bad but they had substance and felt like they built on the universe and expanded it. Not contracted it. It is the biggest flaw of the sequel trilogy.

The original movies are the movies that people adore. Making them pointless is the opposite of what they should have done. What 30 years of peace ? Is this something you have been told ? the movie literally starts with kylo blowing shit up, and within the space of half a movie the entire galaxy has been destroyed by the super duper death star.

They could easily have had the same conflict but structured the whole thing differently.. or a different conflict if they wanted. There are so many things they could have done but instead they chose to render all the actions of the characters in the original movies pointless. I don't care about what it says in an appendix book. I care about what they show on the screen.

That said. I appreciate The Last Jedi's attempt to at least do something a little differently and try to course correct. Some of it worked and some of it didnt. But I can appreciate the attempt.
Let's not get crazy. Regardless of the sins of the sequel trilogy the prequels did more to shrink the universe than it did to expand it. I heard the Clone Wars show is great but I'm just talking about mainline films.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,290
Again, that has nothing to do with the quote "Peace never lasts." They didn't say "peace didn't last in this singular instance," they said that "peace never lasts", thus implying that they're using things outside of the text to go against the OP's question.
Peace never last absolutely applies to the SW universe. We literally always get dropped into a disruption of some kind. That doesn't make everything we see pointless. Luke still redeemed Vader, they still dismantled the empire, a new republic still got formed, etc.
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,312
Pretty much.

I'm tired of the lazy argument that, "nothing lasts forever and pay attention to history." First, Star Wars isn't real life. If Rey, Finn, and Poe were all vaporized by a random passing photon torpedo on the battlefield I doubt you'd just shrug and go, "welp, that shit happens in real life. Good guys and heroes don't always win or survive in war." So, that argument is without merit.

The second lazy argument is that the series is called STAR WARS thus conflict and war is inevitable. Again, this is a poor argument that creates a strawman for an easy rebuttal. No one is saying that SW films should be without conflict, they're saying that a new conflict so soon after our OT heroes last victory, a conflict that completely negates their victory, is poor taste.

There could have still been a new conflict without completely destroying the New Republic, creating the Empire 2.0, and completely destroying the Jedi Order, again. This isn't just some new conflict, it's the exact same conflict our heroes won. It tells us that they all utterly failed. And, they couldn't even get a decade of peace. Remember, the war didn't end with ROTJ. Five years after that they were still pushing the Empire back. Then when they finally won and the New Republic came about, they got a few years of peace before TFO showed up. So, the "peace" was beyond fleeting.

It's understandable that people are upset that there heroes failed so completely so soon after their victory. As another pointed out, it's like Sauron's brother coming back and fucking up Middle Earth a few years after ROTK. It's nonsense.

To be fair, Sauron himself is a second coming of evil after Morgoth. And Morgoth himself is supposed to return in a Ragnarok style final battle where the world ends and is remade.

I'm sure people were equally satisfied at the end of the First Age only for evil to reappear in the second and third.
 

Mockerre

Story Director
Verified
Oct 30, 2017
630
You claimed that Lucas knew when to end the story but that is factually untrue since we know, for a fact, that he planned to make a new trilogy, which would have included the OT3. Now you're talking about how things would have turned out when you originally said it wouldn't have happened at all. Talk about shifting an argument LOL

You just don't read carefully. In my first post I wrote that if Disney wanted to continue, they should, just without tarnishing what came before. I can't really imagine Lucas-written/directed movie that would be this disrespectful to what was simultaneously not offering anything in return. But hey, Lucas didn't write or direct such a movie, he ended the story on RotJl if you visit any alternate reality where that's not the case, please bring back a novelization for the rest of us schumcks.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,266
Peace never last absolutely applies to the SW universe. We literally always get dropped into a disruption of some kind.

So you're OK with using the wider Star Wars universe in this instance but it's "not how criticism works" when I used the wider Star Wars universe before?

OK.

Also why aren't you calling out all the people using real-world examples to justify something in a fantasy universe?
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,290
So you're OK with using the wider Star Wars universe in this instance but it's "not how criticism works" when I used the wider Star Wars universe before?

OK.
I'm talking about stuff that's literally inside the script itself. Nor am I even providing a criticism, the notion that peace doesn't last forever is not a film criticism. Get rid of that chip on your shoulder.
 

Squarehard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
25,821
You mean when a story ends, that's not actually the end?

Those movie credits have been lying to me for decades!
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,637
Costa Rica
Guys remember when the Nazis came back just as powerful as military force as ever after being completely defated? And how not-Hitler quickly took Hitler's place as their leader? And how they all got funds to build new super war weapons despite being pretty much bankrupt?


THESE THINGS HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE
 

BocoDragon

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,207
I think you're missing the point. It's not that there are episodes 7, 8 and 9, it's what they are.
There's no world in which a sequel to Star Wars doesn't disrupt whatever peace ROTJ laid down.

And if you read my post before the one I replied to you, I think the idea that ROTJ "laid down peace across the galaxy" is a creation of the 1997 special editions. While now canon, that isn't intrinsic to how most people enjoyed the ending of ROTJ originally or imagined how things would go after ROTJ.

The sequel trilogy kind of shits on the implication of ROTJ's new 1997 ending, but it doesn't shit on the implication of ROTJ itself. The 1997 ending implying "lasting peace" was basically added after Lucas decided not to do a sequel trilogy. It was a retcon. And now they're retconning that implication itself, to do a sequel trilogy. Irony.
 

Orbit

Banned
Nov 21, 2018
1,328
Shit happens.

But the whole thing with the First Order being able to build that shit to destroy the New Republic no sweat still boggles my mind.

This entire new trilogy boggles my mind. While I like what Last Jedi aimed for, the way it went about it made no sense. From the character Luke was at the end of Return of the Jedi, why would his first thought after sensing the dark side in Kylo Ren be to kill him?! He literally faced against Vader - one of the most dangerous/evil Sith of all time. Yet, he stood there and 'believed' in him and overcame. He faced all of this adveristy in three films, yet he was reduced to a teacher who nearly killed his student and then, instead of facing the mess he created, he just cowardly exile? This would all be ok and make sense if we hadn;t seen all of his character growth from the past three films (which was a much more powerful threat at the time since the Empire literally had complete rule over the galaxy, unlike the New Order who, at the time, was merely a looming shadow).
 
Oct 28, 2017
13,691
You just don't read carefully. In my first post I wrote that if Disney wanted to continue, they should, just without tarnishing what came before. I can't really imagine Lucas-written/directed movie that would be this disrespectful to what was simultaneously not offering anything in return. But hey, Lucas didn't write or direct such a movie, he ended the story on RotJl if you visit any alternate reality where that's not the case, please bring back a novelization for the rest of us schumcks.

I read exactly what you wrote and now you are - unsurprisingly- being disingenuous. Lucas commissioned a script for episode 7. Lucas began pre-preproduction on a new trilogy. Lucas gave his"fabuloso" stamp of approval on pre-production concept art that showed Luke as a Col. Kurtz-type character in exile. Would that type of characterization of Luke be "disrespectful" in your eyes? What is disrespectful of the treatment of Han or Leia?
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,290
"Peace never last absolutely applies to the SW universe. "
"Film trilogy literally kicks off at the starting point where peace gets disrupted/the height of a conflict in a series that always drops us off at such a starting point."

"Yea this usually happens in SW"

"How dare you."

There's taking an L gracefully because you made some wack film criticism, and then there's you bringing it up days later in a completely unrelated topic. Your logic about this gotcha is about as well thought out as your idea that the first order, after being shown to shoot first and ask questions later, would check on a nearby planet after following a ship through hyperspace despite having literally zero reason to do so.
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,269
New York
A lot of this is because Abrams was super sloppy in his world-building in TFA and was more obsessed with repeating the same beats from the OG trilogy than anything else. The New Republic was never established as a credible entity before getting nuked right off the map.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,266
"Film trilogy literally kicks off at the starting point where peace gets disrupted/the height of a conflict in a series that always drops us off at such a starting point."

"Yea this usually happens in SW"

"How dare you."

There's taking an L gracefully because you made some wack film criticism, and then there's you bringing it up days later in a completely unrelated topic. Your logic about this gotcha is about as well thought out as your idea that the first order, after being shown to shoot first and ask questions later, would check on a nearby planet after following a ship through hyperspace despite having literally zero reason to do so.

You literally said that any criticisms based on things outside of the script itself are not "real film criticisms." You are now using things outside of the Sequel Trilogy's script (EU material, the original trilogy, real-life stuff that isn't part of the film's established iconography) to justify your own views on the film. How can I not see that as anything but hypocritical?
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,096
they should've taken the broad strokes from the Thrawn Trilogy. but i dunno, i just made my peace that it ended with RotJ... and then stuff happened. maybe ep IX will make the ST stuff more palatable to my head canon though
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,290
You literally said that any criticisms based on things outside of the script itself are not "real film criticisms."
"Peace never lasts" is not a criticism. It's literally a general statement, what you tried to do, was apply a criticism based on incredibly faulty logic that the film goes out of it's way on multiple occasions to contradict. THAT'S why your criticism sucked and you had multiple people calling out how ridiculous your criticism was.
 

BocoDragon

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,207
Absolutely no one is arguing for peace lasting forever. People want a NEW THREAT.

We wanted Androids to the Empire's Frieza.

We got Resurrection F.

That does make sense to me. It is annoying to me that the First Order is a rather unexplained reheat of the Empire. I wish they were more explicit about them being like "neo-Nazis" on screen... they need some kind of explicit twist on the Empire rather than just being the Empire back for some reason.

But despite what happened in the EU, I think alien invaders from another galaxy takes us away from the core feeling of Star Wars. It isn't Star Trek. Fighting aliens takes us out of the "fantasy version of human conflict" setting and more into hard sci-fi.

I could appreciate a new threat if it were similar to human history in some way... a Genghis Kahn hoarde, Nazi Germany, a religious cult... etc.
 

Deleted member 25712

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,803
A lot of this is because Abrams was super sloppy in his world-building in TFA and was more obsessed with repeating the same beats from the OG trilogy than anything else. The New Republic was never established as a credible entity before getting nuked right off the map.

Correct. I had no idea what actually happened or who in particular I was supposed to care about when that happened. My first thought was this was Coruscant getting blown up, I didn't realize the New Republic was formed somewhere else. The lady looking up at the sky apparently had some role in books outside of the movies? I dunno, nothing is shown or explained to justify really caring.

It's not that conflict would go away after RotJ, and the series is called Star Wars for a reason, but it didn't have to be a total retread of the same material with new characters. The new characters are great in these movies. The plots...not so much.
 

chezzymann

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,042
Yeah, if the republic stuck around and the canto blight arc was instead in a republic city that would have gone a long way to making things feel different than before.
 

Mockerre

Story Director
Verified
Oct 30, 2017
630
There's no world in which a sequel to Star Wars doesn't disrupt whatever peace ROTJ laid down.

And if you read my post before the one I replied to you, I think the idea that ROTJ "laid down peace across the galaxy" is a creation of the 1997 special editions. While now canon, that isn't intrinsic to how most people enjoyed the ending of ROTJ originally or imagined how things would go after ROTJ.

The sequel trilogy kind of shits on the implication of ROTJ's new 1997 ending, but it doesn't shit on the implication of ROTJ itself. The 1997 ending showing "peace" was basically added after Lucas decided not to do a sequel trilogy. It was a retcon. And now they're retconning that implication itself, to do a sequel trilogy. Irony.

Both versions of RotJ end on a positive note, showing Coruscant (an EU addition at the time) notwithstanding. And it's not about laying eternal peace. You need conflict for a good story. Even the old EU, with all its faults, managed to move the story and characters forward.

One easy way of doing this would have been to just move 50+ years into the future and create a different kind of antagonistic force (Empire was order, so the new one could be chaos?) nad leave the old characters alone (or in positions of power, just not able to help). Or make the FO the underdog, like modern terrorist organisations. Show us the peace that was built by the heroes of the past and the evil people who want to destroy it.

Imagine, if you will, an alternate The Force Awakens, where a decorated retired general Han Solo goes on one last mission into the Outer Rim, because his son went missing on an errand for Luke Skywalker, Jedi Master. Han travels with Poe, they get separated, we get all the stuff with Poe, Finn and Rey Jakku/Tatooine, then Han picks them up and they escape together. At the same time Leia's on a mission to find infromation on some super secret New Republic project, only to find out the Republic is building Starkiller Base! They want to use it as a deterrant for future conflicts (something something A-bomb allegory). Leia opposes this short-sighted militarization, of couse. Then Takodana happens, Kylo takes Rey and the infromation BB8 had (it's the Starkiller Base launch codes!), then the FO hijack Starkiller Base and try to point it at Coruscant. Rest of the movie happens, Han learns Kylo didn't kill his son, he is his son; Kylo kills him, goes to fight Rey, Luke shows up, saving Rey at the last moment (she wasn't ready to face him, but she will have to in a future movie), Starkiller blows up WITHOUT wiping ouf the Republic off the board.

This wasn't very hard to come up with; it salvages 90% of TFA as is. It's still a retelling of ANH, but with a, dare I say it, subversive twist.

I read exactly what you wrote and now you are - unsurprisingly- being disingenuous. Lucas commissioned a script for episode 7. Lucas began pre-preproduction on a new trilogy. Lucas gave his"fabuloso" stamp of approval on pre-production concept art that showed Luke as a Col. Kurtz-type character in exile. Would that type of characterization of Luke be "disrespectful" in your eyes? What is disrespectful of the treatment of Han or Leia?

Again, I don't know what it would be, because it does not exist. That script was never used, some elements of what Lucas was planning made it in, some didn't. Lucas wasn't happy with the ST in the few interviews he did about them. However, to answer your question, if Lucas directed the exact same movie as TLJ, I would be as dissatisfied as I am with Rian Johnson's movie.
 

Mockerre

Story Director
Verified
Oct 30, 2017
630
Sure, it's not hard to come up with that when other writers have already laid all the groundwork for your little twists

I mean, they had unlimited funds and personnel, a talented director and a talented scriptwriter. They also had the wealth of EU to cherrrypick from. They absolutely could have done better, they had the talent. They just didn't care enough.

Anyway, if we're talking about groundwork, funny thing about TFA, I was thinking they were incorporating the Dark Empire storyline (with Kylo 'undercover' instead of Luke). They even had the space cannon that could shoot through hyperspace. With the revelations of IX teaser I wouldn't be suprised if they went this way with the Palp stuff.
 

CommodoreKong

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,691
I think the problem is that the New Trilogy skips the buildup. By the time we get to it, the First Order is ALREADY Empire 2: Electric Boogaloo, so instead of seeing a roving terrorist force evolve into a gigantic evil presence over time, everything just...resets. It feels like no progress was actually made.

Yeah I think this is a big issue. The OT didn't need build up to the state of the universe because it was a new universe. This sequel trilogy is a time skip that basically puts the good guys in the same position of the OT despite their victory and facing a similar threat. You got to do some build up or exposition as to to why that's the state of the galaxy. And no the books don't count, 99% of people who watch Star Wars movies will never read a Star Wars book so those might as well not exist to the vast majority of people who watch Star Wars.
 

Thatguy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,207
Seattle WA
The Ep9 trailer was a teaser, so the things it alludes to could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time). Maybe they just find a hologram recording of the Emperor. But lets assume the Emperor lives, and ep9 is the conclusion of the Skywalker saga as stated by JJ.

They're absolutely tainting/ruining RotJ, from a literary standpoint. Obviosly they want to sell Ep9 tickets. But its frustrating that they're not creating a brand new epic story arc, and instead trying to patch on to the first 6. 'Only NOW will the Emperor really be dead. Only NOW is the prophecy of the one who brings balance being fulfilled. THIS movie is ACTUALLY the important one. RotJ was basically nothing. Vader was not the chosen one, just a pawn of the Emperor who turned bad. Luke didn't accomplish anything since the peace didn't last and he couldn't pass on what he learned.'

I don't understand why they couldn't write a brand new story. Ep1-6 are so full and complete. A full satisfying arc. Why mess with that? Why not set up a whole new challenge for the galaxy, a new status quo for force users (that probably is happening), and a whole new epic 6 part saga that will be for the new fans? Ep9 should end on a cliffhanger with things looking dire (like Ep3).

Like I said, the trailer and JJs comments could all be smoke and mirrors. If not, then frankly their plot feels uninspired and scared.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,894
Episode 6 is ROTJ.

Luke: Kill Vader + Emperor - CHECK
Han & Leia: Get deflector shield down so Ackbar & Lando can blow up Death Star - CHECK

-What did they do wrong?