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So.. everybody at the end of Final Fantasy VIII is screwed, right? (someone explain to me FF8's ending)

Uzumaki Goku

Uzumaki Goku

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,282
The game acts like it's a completely happy ending for all the characters, but... when I thought about it... everybody's screwed right? I mean Ultimecia comes into existence at some point because the game confirms at the end that the whole thing was a stable time loop. (Yeah.. that made me go "WHAT?") when I first played it. But yeah, Rinoa and Squall are doomed to become Ultimecia and the Knight and are eventually defeated by their younger selves. I don't know. Maybe I just didn't "get" Final Fantasy VIII's story really.
 
Zero-ELEC

Zero-ELEC

The Wise Ones
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Oct 25, 2017
7,565
México
Rinoa isn't Ultimecia. Ultimecia is a sorceress from the future that takes the name after Sorceresses get bad reps from historic records of Ultimecia, so she uses the Junction Machine Ellone to send her consciousness back into the past to prove them right as revenge or somesuch, causing the entire thing to begin with.
 
Wazzy

Wazzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,070
Ultimecia is not Rinoa. She is a sorceress from a future that is way beyond the present time which means Squall and everyone are dead long before she is born.

The idea is that a time loop has trapped her into always being hated while existing which leads her to being evil and then eventually getting killed by Squall who also is trapped. Throughout the game we see characters like Cid and Edea forcing Squall into leadership positions and situations since they know he is destined to kill Ultimecia. Ultimecia never ends up realizing her path is what traps her into dying.
 
Bradford

Bradford

terminus est
Member
Aug 12, 2018
5,423
Ultimecia's future is eons ahead of the "present day" of the story. Squall and Rinoa are likely long dead by the time she is born.

Devs confirmed Rinoa is not Ultimecia, but that was a good theory for a long time. It certainly is better than the actual story of the game.
 
MrCibb

MrCibb

Member
Dec 12, 2018
5,349
UK
Uzumaki Goku said:
I haven't played the game in a while. But I remember Ultimecia summons some huge.. thing that fans theorize to be Squall.
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If I'm assuming correctly by 'huge thing' you mean the Griever which she summons during the final battle. If so, Ultimecia herself says when summoning Griever that it's a manifestation of Squall's memories and feelings which she uses against him. So I haven't heard that theory before and it's definitely not correct considering Ultimecia herself explains what Griever is.
 
Zero-ELEC

Zero-ELEC

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,565
México
Wazzy said:
Ultimecia is not Rinoa. She is a sorceress from a future that is way beyond the present time which means Squall and everyone are dead long before she is born.

The idea is that a time loop has trapped her into always being hated while existing which leads her to being evil and then eventually getting killed by Squall who also is trapped. Throughout the game we see characters like Cid and Edea forcing Squall into leadership positions and situations since they know he is destined to kill Ultimecia. Ultimecia never ends up realizing her path is what traps her into dying.
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Yeah. Basically, Ultimecia alone could break the causality loop, but she never will.
 
MrNewVegas

MrNewVegas

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Oct 27, 2017
10,718
The way I saw it was that after Squall was hit by the ice everything else after became a dream.
 
Wazzy

Wazzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,070
AlanOC91 said:
Yes. As far as I know it was Squalls vision of the ultimate GF.
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You are correct. In the Japanese version this is more clearly stated. Unfortunately a lot of moments involving Ultimecia aren't handled well in the translation and just paint her as this maniac who wants destruction when in the Japanese version we see someone who is scared of death and her grudge against SeeD is more understandable.

I'll still never understood how people ran so far with Rinoa = Ultimecia when almost every single aspect of the theory made zero sense. Even worse when people try to say it made the story better yet every single idea that would lead Rinoa to being Ultimecia is not shown in the game and literally turns Rinoa into a nutjob because reasons???
 
OP
OP
Uzumaki Goku

Uzumaki Goku

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,282
Wazzy said:
You are correct. In the Japanese version this is more clearly stated. Unfortunately a lot of moments involving Ultimecia aren't handled well in the translation and just paint her as this maniac who wants destruction when in the Japanese version we see someone who is scared of death and her grudge against SeeD is more understandable.

I'll still never understood how people ran so far with Rinoa = Ultimecia when almost every single aspect of the theory made zero sense. Even worse when people try to say it made the story better yet every single idea that would lead Rinoa to being Ultimecia is not shown in the game and literally turns Rinoa into a nutjob because reasons???
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Based on what I've heard with VII, a lot of the PS1 FF games suffered from translation problems. (Ted Woosley made some good changes to the SNES games)
 
ProstatePuncher

ProstatePuncher

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,800
The Griever boss fight being Squall's literal OC donut steel makes me laugh so fucking hard. Has any other game ever done this as a plot point?
 
DiipuSurotu

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
Griff said:
Ultimecia's future is eons ahead of the "present day" of the story. Squall and Rinoa are likely long dead by the time she is born.

Devs confirmed Rinoa is not Ultimecia, but that was a good theory for a long time. It certainly is better than the actual story of the game.
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While Rinoa is 100% not Ultimecia, people need to stop spreading the false idea that "Devs confirmed Rinoa is not Ultimecia". They did not.

What they did say is that Sorceresses have normal human lifespans (well, except when they're trapped in stasis like Adel). Since Ultimecia lives in the far future and Rinoa lives in the present, we can deduce from this statement that they are not the same person.

My point is Kitase and co. probably aren't even aware that some fans came up with a "Rinoa=Ultimecia" theory.
 
Razorrin

Razorrin

Member
Nov 7, 2017
5,236
the HELP Menu.
60EffPeeEss said:
The Griever boss fight being Squall's literal OC donut steel makes me laugh so fucking hard. Has any other game ever done this as a plot point?
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A famous Film example is Ghostbusters, with StayPuft marshmallow man, and That was rad!

As far as games, drawing from the player for the final bossfight has happened a few times, like Crystal Chronicles and Iconoclasts.
 

Deleted member 1102

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,295
DiipuSurotu said:
While Rinoa is 100% not Ultimecia, people need to stop spreading the false idea that "Devs confirmed Rinoa is not Ultimecia". They did not.
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Kitase literally disproved it along with the equally awful Squall is dead theory;

On the theory that Final Fantasy VIII's Rinoa is really Ultimecia:

"No, that is not true," Kitase said. "I don't think I'll incorporate that even if we do remake the game. But that being said, both Rinoa and Ultimecia are witches, so in that sense they are similar, but they're not the same person."
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Wazzy

Wazzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,070
DiipuSurotu said:
While Rinoa is 100% not Ultimecia, people need to stop spreading the false idea that "Devs confirmed Rinoa is not Ultimecia". They did not.

What they did say is that Sorceresses have normal human lifespans (well, except when they're trapped in stasis like Adel). Since Ultimecia lives in the far future and Rinoa lives in the present, we can deduce from this statement that they are not the same person.

My point is Kitase and co. probably aren't even aware that some fans came up with a "Rinoa=Ultimecia" theory.
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No Kitase STRAIGHT up said she isn't Ultimecia. In fact I'm pretty sure you were in the thread when it was posted.

kotaku.com

Is Squall Really Dead? Final Fantasy Producer Addresses The Series' Biggest Fan Theories

Was Aeris ever going to come back to life? Are Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy VII set in the same world? Is Gogo actually Daryl? Thanks to Yoshinori Kitase, we now have the answers to all of these questions. And they’re mostly “No.”
kotaku.com kotaku.com
 
Bradford

Bradford

terminus est
Member
Aug 12, 2018
5,423
DiipuSurotu said:
While Rinoa is 100% not Ultimecia, people need to stop spreading the false idea that "Devs confirmed Rinoa is not Ultimecia". They did not.

What they did say is that Sorceresses have normal human lifespans (well, except when they're trapped in stasis like Adel). Since Ultimecia lives in the far future and Rinoa lives in the present, we can deduce from this statement that they are not the same person.

My point is Kitase and co. probably aren't even aware that some fans came up with a "Rinoa=Ultimecia" theory.
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Kitase has literally said she is not Ultimecia.

Interview with Kotaku said:
On the theory that Final Fantasy VIII's Rinoa is really Ultimecia:

"No, that is not true," Kitase said. "I don't think I'll incorporate that even if we do remake the game. But that being said, both Rinoa and Ultimecia are witches, so in that sense they are similar, but they're not the same person."
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Squall is dead is mentioned in the same interview.
 

Deleted member 35077

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Banned
Dec 1, 2017
3,999
Wazzy said:
No Kitase STRAIGHT up said she isn't Ultimecia. In fact I'm pretty sure you were in the thread when it was posted.

kotaku.com

Is Squall Really Dead? Final Fantasy Producer Addresses The Series' Biggest Fan Theories

Was Aeris ever going to come back to life? Are Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy VII set in the same world? Is Gogo actually Daryl? Thanks to Yoshinori Kitase, we now have the answers to all of these questions. And they’re mostly “No.”
kotaku.com kotaku.com
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I still find it funny that he thought the 'Squall was always dead' theory to be something to take into account in the potential remake, instead of declaring it as complete nonsense and throwing it away.
 
DiipuSurotu

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
Wazzy said:
No Kitase STRAIGHT up said she isn't Ultimecia. In fact I'm pretty sure you were in the thread when it was posted.

kotaku.com

Is Squall Really Dead? Final Fantasy Producer Addresses The Series' Biggest Fan Theories

Was Aeris ever going to come back to life? Are Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy VII set in the same world? Is Gogo actually Daryl? Thanks to Yoshinori Kitase, we now have the answers to all of these questions. And they’re mostly “No.”
kotaku.com kotaku.com
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Huh, I don't even remember it lol. I think I was confused because another (video) interview has Kitase commenting the Squall is dead theory but not the R=U theory.
 
Wazzy

Wazzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,070
DiipuSurotu said:
In the English version you have to scan Griever to learn about it.
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Yeah but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people didn't since scanning really wasn't necessary in VIII. If people enjoy seeking out details or complete files then they did it.
DiipuSurotu said:
Huh, I don't even remember it lol. I think I was confused because another (video) interview has Kitase commenting the Squall is dead theory but not the R=U theory.
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If it's the other video I'm thinking of he also disproves R=U in it.


Castile said:
I still find it funny that he thought the 'Squall was always dead' theory to be something to take into account in the potential remake, instead of declaring it as complete nonsense and throwing it away.
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I honestly hope he doesn't actually ever consider it since the theory is awful.
 
DiipuSurotu

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
Castile said:
I still find it funny that he thought the 'Squall was always dead' theory to be something to take into account in the potential remake, instead of declaring it as complete nonsense and throwing it away.
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Square originally wanted Tidus to be dead without knowing it in FFX. While they changed that plot point because M. Night Shyamalan's The Sixth Sense was released during development with a similar plot point, they actually re-implemented that idea in the FFX-2.5 epilogue that has the infamous Blitzball bomb stuff.

SG0Sn3t.gif


So it's not too surprising that Kitase would find the idea that Squall is dead "fun".
 
Squarealex

Squarealex

Member
Nov 11, 2017
1,461
The story of FF8 is so classic (and does not surprise ), fans do not accept that and create a lot of theory
 
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Wazzy

Wazzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,070
DiipuSurotu said:
I'm pretty sure Squall is dead was created as a joke, not a real theory. Some people did start actually believing it though.
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Oh the people who created it 100% believed it. The original Squall is Dead theory was that he died in the ending of Final Fantasy VIII and what we saw at the end was a ghost. The second version of the theory which is the most popular one now is that Squall died at the end of disc 1 and I remember the creation of it back on the old forum.

I just love how apparently everything in disc 1 was totally cool and normal but then DISC 2 AND ONWARD IS FUCKING CRAZYYYYYYYYYYYYYY even though you know...Disc 1 features:
- Fire Cavern where you fight a giant summon
- Dollet field exam
- Two Laguna flashbacks
- Dummy President turning into a giant organ monster
- Diablos and Brothers(also pointed out that you can do these later in the game which means Squall magically guesses these events accurately?)
- A sorceress abducting someone and murdering the president
- Sorceress using her magic to control and manipulate people and objects(the Iguions)
- Squall jumping from a tower and not breaking his legs and then ending with him being impaled by magic
 
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MrNewVegas

MrNewVegas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,718
The Praiseworthy said:
What age did you play it at?

To me, it will always hold a very dear spot in my gaming heart, the world the music the art direction and the characters are so special to me <3
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I played it when I was 9 at the time of release. I remember being very excited for it. That Christmas season they played the FF8 commercial quite a bit. I just didn't get what was happening in the game. It felt very muddled in comparison to FF7. Returning again to the series with FF9 the following year, I loved that game.

I always see praise for it along with the same sentiment that I feel. So I am unsure if it was the age and inability to break down what was happening or if the story was truly a muddled mess.
 
Noctis0Stella

Noctis0Stella

Member
Mar 17, 2019
260
Griff said:
Ultimecia's future is eons ahead of the "present day" of the story. Squall and Rinoa are likely long dead by the time she is born.

Devs confirmed Rinoa is not Ultimecia, but that was a good theory for a long time. It certainly is better than the actual story of the game.
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Yeah I also like the rinoa=ultimecia theory
I mean who is actually ultimecia?
We don't know much about her only that she wants to compress the time and is from the future.

But with this theory it gives her much more background and something mysterious.


Anyway FF VIII is my favorite FF game
This game needs a remake ;)
 
skeezx

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,164
love the game but in ways it was the FFXV before FFXV. at some point they obviously condensed and cobbled together plot resolutions because of time restraints. look at Seifer for example obviously he was positioned to play a larger role but less then halfway through the game his whole arc is lol wut
 
Wazzy

Wazzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,070
Noctis0Stella said:
Yeah I also like the rinoa=ultimecia theory
I mean who is actually ultimecia?
We don't know much about her only that she wants to compress the time and is from the future.

But with this theory it gives her much more background and something mysterious.


Anyway FF VIII is my favorite FF game ;)
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Ultimecia is a sorceress from the future who is condemned to die by history and the Legendary SeeD. She is feared and hated for what she did but trapped in a loop where the events are held against her and eventually lead her into doing them and Squall killing her.

I think that Ultimecia should have been given a small scene showing her time and the hardship and loneliness she experienced rather than just hinting at it and saying it in spin-off games but her motivation is there and because she is unable to realize her actions lead her to death she does the one thing that leads to what she was scared would happen to her.

OmniStrife said:
lol fans scrambling to make sense out of that sloppy mess of a story.
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No one is scrambling lmao

VIII has a pretty easy story to understand.

skeezx said:
love the game but in ways it was the FFXV before FFXV. at some point they obviously condensed and cobbled together plot resolutions because of time restraints. look at Seifer for example obviously he was positioned to play a larger role but less then halfway through the game his whole arc is lol wut
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Huh? Seifer still plays a large role and only drops off once Time Compression begins which is the end of Disc 3. They definitely shortened his arc because the most logical direction was that he redeems himself by joining at the end to defeat Ultimecia and that is where I DO think they dropped it for budget reasons but no way was it halfway through since he is left at the end of disc 3 and then on Disc 4 shown in the ending.
 
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