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BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,007
You think, what? I'm gonna walk out with a laser sword and face down the whole First Order?

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Alright, so in The Last Jedi, Luke obviously does just that but we learn it was all just an impressive projection. Luke used his status of a legend to trick TFO and Kylo into believing he was there and could do all those things. Yet, once the trick is revealed and the ending is over we're still left questioning whether Luke really could have survived against TFO like that, alone. This was actually a pretty nice open question that added to the myth about the Jedi and Luke, as you aren't really sure so it only further fuels the stories about the Jedi and their supposed feats.

Since then we've had several comics, animated showed, TV series, and The Rise of Skywalker (šŸ¤®) all basically showing Jedi doing crazy shit that seems to suggest that Luke really could face down TFO alone. For instance, we learned that Palpatine was actually the one controlling Snoke, that he's been every voice in Kylo's head, oh and he can cast Force Lighting so powerful and far ranging it can affect Starships for miles.

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Oh, and these two lower-level peeps can do this, force pull fighting over a ship:

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Then we get to the more recent Vader comics and things continue into the sheer ridiculousness and absurdity to prove how badass Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader is. Alright so in Vader Down (which takes place after ANH but before ESB), Vader proceeds to take on an entire Rebel Squadron and lay absolute waste to them. He even uses The Force to redirect their missiles.

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But, if that wasn't badass enough for you the comic goes even further. You see, no one can stop Vader in his TIE Fighter, entire squadrons are being lit up...until Luke shows up. Luke does a suicide run crash into his ship that damages his fighter and forces him to crash on the nearest planet. Whew, okay he's on the ground now and can be totally surrounded by Rebel ground forces. Game over, right?

Wrong.

4916299-vader%21.jpg



I don't think I need to tell you that shit doesn't play out well for those troopers. But, just look at them. He's SURROUNDED on all sides with troop transports and snipers in the distance. And yet, he still wipes them out and sends them fleeing. Oh yeah, they also call in air support. This is the result:

star-wars-vader-down-001-025.jpg


Dude took out bombers in the air, from the ground, with The Force. And I remind you, THIS IS ALL CANON.

Let's get back to my opening question now. With regards to everything we've now seen, could Luke have survived TFO staredown? I remind you he should be far more powerful than his father at this point.



I remind you that Luke can also crush some of the strongest metal in the Galaxy with nothing but The Force, so those AT-AT legs could be in trouble.

f271095f2c2e71067cabc7c104be2fa2af49da39.gifv
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
Funny thing is most of the stuff in the OP pales in comparison to the insanity of the old EU. I remember Luke pulling off some absolutely insane feats of force power like surviving a black hole. That and most of the old school Sith made Palpatine look like a joke with characters like Nihilus eating planets left and right.
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,062
Considering the power creep that's been happening in the franchise, yes, probably. And Star Wars is lesser because of it.
 

PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,014
Lets not forget the other stupid comic idea in which Palpatine nukes the Jedi Academy with force lightning out of nowhere even though he's just a spirit in a dying clone husk.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,894
Funny thing is most of the stuff in the OP pales in comparison to the insanity of the old EU. I remember Luke pulling off some absolutely insane feats of force power like surviving a black hole. That and most of the old school Sith made Palpatine look like a joke with characters like Nihilus eating planets left and right.
Yeah some of the books and comics had Luke and co doing some really cool stuff.
 

Team_Feisar

Member
Jan 16, 2018
5,354
"defeat" in battle? Probably, but Luke took the right lessons from playing space the last of us 2 and realized that violence begets violence.
 

Doggg

ā–² Legend ā–²
Member
Nov 17, 2017
14,462
Does he need to go to the Tosche station to pick up some power converters?
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,506
Makes me think of one of the old dark horse comics. Vader leaves a planet because he's not sure if he can beat them alone and the planet lets him go because they're not certain either lol

DstiWRR.png

2eidSiZ.png
 
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BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,007
Lets not forget the other stupid comic idea in which Palpatine nukes the Jedi Academy with force lightning out of nowhere even though he's just a spirit in a dying clone husk.

UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, Christ on a stick. I already thought this was bad when it was retconned as Snoke starting the fire, but after TROS it becomes even dumber as you said since it is "just a spirit in a dying clone husk" casting a force lighting lightyears across the galaxy.

Does he need to go to the Tosche station to pick up some power converters?

No, he doesn't get to play with his friends until he deals with TFO first.
 

Septimus Prime

EA
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
8,500
No, probably not. Not with Kylo and Snoke around. Luke could probably take them individually (out maybe even together), but fighting them plus all the other shit at the same time is probably too much for even him.
 
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BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,007
No, probably not. Not with Kylo and Snoke around. Luke could probably take them individually (out maybe even together), but fighting them plus all the other shit at the same time is probably too much for even him.

No Snoke, we're talking just the example at the end of the film. So, Snoke is dead, only Kylo is around. Can he take on all those AT-ATs, First Order troops, and Kylo?
 

WrenchNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,745
Canada
Luke was old as hell and had been closed off to the Force for years, so he would have lost. Maybe if it was younger post-RotJ Luke.
 

Tathanen

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,038
Lets not forget the other stupid comic idea in which Palpatine nukes the Jedi Academy with force lightning out of nowhere even though he's just a spirit in a dying clone husk.

Last thread I read about this added additional context beyond just a single panel in a comic and made it seem like the initial lightning was indeed done by Ben, just not on purpose.
 
Oct 29, 2017
13,470
I am confident that Luke could have defeated and killed Kylo Ren and any and all sufficient leadership within the First Order, yes. That would probably be enough to cause enough friction and chaos within their ranks to where stopping them would be pretty simple for him and his allies.

Could he do all of this? Yeah. Would he? No, as we saw. He could not bring himself to kill his nephew, whether we think he should have or not. But either way, Luke clearly believed that would not be in line with what he SHOULD do (still clinging to his Jedi ideologies even if he was beginnnig to think that the Jedi ways should end).

I have a lot of problems with TLJ narratively, but Luke was quite good.
 

D6AMIA6N

Member
Nov 8, 2017
354
Atlanta, GA
Absolutely. He could for sure. He can project himself through time and space, obviously he take on an army of jobbers.

IRL - Heckin' no. I love Star Wars, but man is it dumb.
 

Miamiwesker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,671
Miami
I love seeing Jedi being badasses but it's stupid if they can take down entire battalions. Of course Luke can't take down the first order in that situation. In smaller groups, sure little by little he can do damage but against a whole group, that's just dumb. We have seen Jedi be killed by much less during the clone wars.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
Ya know, when the sequel trilogy started I didn't think the force would become more OP than it was in the prequel trilogy. Buuuutttt.... yeah. Bunch of clones with blasters took out 99% of the jedi.
 

Jhey Cyphre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,089
The stuff Rey and Palpatine did in TRoS was so stupid. In the first two ST films they grounded the Jedi which was great but somehow they ended up being more stupidly overpowered than in the prequels.

Luke would have gotten blown to bits.
 
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BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,007
I love seeing Jedi being badasses but it's stupid if they can take down entire battalions. Of course Luke can't take down the first order in that situation. In smaller groups, sure little by little he can do damage but against a whole group, that's just dumb. We have seen Jedi be killed by much less during the clone wars.

Ki Adi Mundi looking down at Vader as a Force Ghost during Vader Down comic:

giphy.gif


Am I a joke to you?
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,364
Given the dumb shit that went on in rise of Skywalker and the expanded universe, maybe.

But prior to that, solely in the films, the force was a lot less all powerful bullshit that Abrams desperately wanted it to be, and more a spiritual thing that maybe made you pretty good at swordfighting.

Being able to stop a single laser shot is a big fucking deal in TFA, nobody should have even entertained the idea of stopping an entire battalions firepower all at once, even for Luke.
 

Gravidee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,362
Man I was mad as hell when Lucas nerf the shit out of this guy in the movie.
It wasn't that he was nerfed. The Genndy Grievous only had the design and some notes to work with--cyborg general with four arms who can use lightsabers he took off of dead Jedi. Lucas already had his moustache-twirling opportunistic character in mind for the movie while Genndy was doing his own thing with the cartoon version of the character. I don't think it was until later when they got the memo that Grievous coughs a lot that they had to have his lungs crushed in the cartoon's final episode.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
It's very important to remember that the true masters of the Force were basically equal to an army by themselves. In one of the earliest episodes of The Clone Wars, it's suggested they're worth a thousand battle droids each - and given what they do later on, that's underselling them. Anakin would take on a whole army of droids by himself then, rather casually, offer to take on the army Obi-Wan was fighting too.

So it's really not so surprising that Darth Vader would have no issue at all dismantling just about any army that was stupid enough to try to take him on. That does, of course, have the knock on effect of asserting the same is true for his son. Indeed, I was pretty confident after The Force Awakens came out that the reason Snoke wanted the map to Luke Skywalker was so he could destroy it and prevent anyone finding Luke and bringing him into the conflict, simply because Luke would basically crush the First Order in a weekend.
 

Ushojax

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,931
Based on dumb shit like TROS and the comics/cartoons, maybe.

Based on films 1-8, no. We saw Jedi masters get killed by generic battle droids and a bounty hunter. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were outmatched by a few destroyer droids. They are not gods.
 

PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,014
Ya know, when the sequel trilogy started I didn't think the force would become more OP than it was in the prequel trilogy. Buuuutttt.... yeah. Bunch of clones with blasters took out 99% of the jedi.

Basically, all these jedi masters on the council being taken out easily by a few clones.

But then yea with the new comics and ST stuff, the force stuff is going beyond lot of the old EU crazyness
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,364
It's very important to remember that the true masters of the Force were basically equal to an army by themselves. In one of the earliest episodes of The Clone Wars, it's suggested they're worth a thousand battle droids each - and given what they do later on, that's underselling them. Anakin would take on a whole army of droids by himself then, rather casually, offer to take on the army Obi-Wan was fighting too.

So it's really not so surprising that Darth Vader would have no issue at all dismantling just about any army that was stupid enough to try to take him on. That does, of course, have the knock on effect of asserting the same is true for his son. Indeed, I was pretty confident after The Force Awakens came out that the reason Snoke wanted the map to Luke Skywalker was so he could destroy it and prevent anyone finding Luke and bringing him into the conflict, simply because Luke would basically crush the First Order in a weekend.

This just highlights the massive disconnect between the films and the expanded media though. Prior to Rise of Skywalker, there's nothing to suggest any of the force users are anywhere near that powerful, neither in the first two of the sequel trilogy, nor anywhere in the other 2 trilogies.

The ultimate show of the dark lord of the sith in the prequels is throwing some seats like they're giant spinning tops. When we saw loads of high end jedi including obi wan fighting in an actual war, they did nothing of the sort that you described. Most jedi were slaughtered by a simple barrage of blaster fire.
During the original trilogy if Darth Vader was capable of even a fraction of what the expanded universe would have you believe, he and palpatine would have crushed the resistance like the pathetic non force users they were, and would have never had a need for spaceships or death stars.
 
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BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,007
It's very important to remember that the true masters of the Force were basically equal to an army by themselves. In one of the earliest episodes of The Clone Wars, it's suggested they're worth a thousand battle droids each - and given what they do later on, that's underselling them. Anakin would take on a whole army of droids by himself then, rather casually, offer to take on the army Obi-Wan was fighting too.

So it's really not so surprising that Darth Vader would have no issue at all dismantling just about any army that was stupid enough to try to take him on. That does, of course, have the knock on effect of asserting the same is true for his son. Indeed, I was pretty confident after The Force Awakens came out that the reason Snoke wanted the map to Luke Skywalker was so he could destroy it and prevent anyone finding Luke and bringing him into the conflict, simply because Luke would basically crush the First Order in a weekend.

"True Master"

giphy.gif
 

Blackpuppy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,204
I'm pretty sure the moment in TLJ, where Luke is blasted by a hail of fire power and Kylo is shook to see him alive, is narratively telling the audience that no, Luke would have been slaughtered had he actually been there.

I know nerds get their rocks off seeing Jedi taking down legions of people with a wave of their hands, but this deflates any kind of tension. I really wish the Jedi had kept their powers to a minimum like in the OT.
 

hurlex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,143
Power creep for force users has gotten out of control.

Some media which stylistically exaggerated their powers now seem like the baseline lol
 
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BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,007
I'm pretty sure the moment in TLJ, where Luke is blasted by a hail of fire power and Kylo is shook to see him alive, is narratively telling the audience that no, Luke would have been slaughtered had he actually been there.

I know nerds get their rocks off seeing Jedi taking down legions of people with a wave of their hands, but this deflates any kind of tension. I really wish the Jedi had kept their powers to a minimum like in the OT.

Well, Kylo wouldn't really know what Luke is fully capable of since Luke, as far as we know, never had any reason to go full ham during the time he was under him.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
Yes, as we all know, the essence of Luke's character is to deliver butt whoopin', ass kickin', salad tossin' Force smackdowns.

So what he would probably do if he had to face off against the First Order's army in person is get his Kreia on by using his lightsaber like a Force-controlled drone. He'd just fly it around, glowy-end first, into all the ships and soldiers until they're good and dead. Meanwhile, he'd chill inside a Force bubble that protects him from harm. Finally, he would Force crush Kylo to death, like a true Jedi.

Classic Luke.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254

You've seen the final season of The Clone Wars, so you know why Order 66 was so effective. Not only would you not expect the people you had been fighting beside for years to turn on you so suddenly, but you'd be confused as to why they've turned on you and you'd struggle to kill them because you've spilt blood and sweat together. It was more psychologically overwhelming than physically, although I s'pose it helps the clones were genetically enhanced Mandalorians designed from birth to kill Jedi. šŸ¤”