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Dude, I think I've made myself abundantly clear, if the ending frames the possible genocide as something that bring paradise to prosperity in the future, that would be geonocide apology. Adding things like an obvious cycle of revenge wouldn't scrub off that.
what? now we cant talk about other possibles ending other than the one in the OP?
hahahaha
Makes sense I mean the author has been telling people this is where its going for a while and the manga itself has aswell. The twist ending for this manga would be a happy ending.
I mean this thread is about the ending being communicated to us via that music video based on how OP sees it. I'm just saying that that would be genocide apologism.
We are talking about the rumored ending of AoT, which absolutely involves what I said.
I really don't see it as derailing. I'm just talking about plot points that are involved in the inevitable ending of the story. That article sums up the plot points pretty nicely.
Look, try to look at this way:
Eren saw a future memory of himself brutally annihilating the entire world. It's horrifying and he honestly wants to avert it. But as time passes and he tries to find ways to avert this future, and becomes convinced that the Rumbling is the only possible solution, as much as it pains him.
The thing is, he rationalized himself into thinking that the Rumbling was the only option. There were other options, such as the small scale rumbling. Yes, the plan would harm Historia and her family, but it would be far less horrifying than the Rumbling is being...but it wouldn't give Eren the world he wanted.
Eren is not doing this because the future said so. He is doing this because he saw the future and rationalized himself into doing it. Saving Paradis is just an execuse. There was other options to save Paradis, but none of them would get him what he wanted: a humanity-empty world to be explored.
It's like Walter White claiming that everything he did in Breaking Bad was because of his family. There were other options, but he chose the most destructive one, not because of his family, but because he wanted.
Fucking hell this thread sucks. It even has idiots bringing out that garbage debunked Polygon article.
Series has only gotten better since chapter 87 or so. It recontextualized everything that came before in a new light and has swerved the following events in an fascinating direction.
The latest chapter, 131, is one of the best, bleakest and most harrowing chapters of the series so far.
Series has only gotten better since chapter 87 or so. It recontextualized everything that came before in a new light and has swerved the following events in an fascinating direction.
The latest chapter, 131, is one of the best, bleakest and most harrowing chapters of the series so far.
The worst part is that we know that the Eldians started the whole thing.
They could have tried to box the Marleyans and deal with the world while they open up.
Eren wasn't forced to do this, he himself MADE EVERY CRITICAL STEPS that lead to this.
Like seriously there couldn't have been a clearer scenario where Eren was more at fault.
Also yeah I guess there's a reason I fell of the anime fandom, if this is their take they're really bad at media comprehension.
I get the impression some people seem to think that because genocide it's simply used in the story then it's automatically validated by the creator as a good thing. This situation reminds me A LOT this video:
In the video, the creator presents the idea that the show has a serious problem, the way it presents Rick, a human garbage who does the most evil shit to achieve his goals, but without condemning any of his actions, maybe in in some episode you'll see him depressed or whatever, but he always win, always saves the day with no repercussion, in other words, the show validates Rick's actions by not actively saying it's wrong.
In this case, we have Eren doing the most horrible shit, but not without repercussions, he has the physical force to on on with his plan, but he has enemies and allies opposed to his actions and trying to stop him by force and reasoning, right now we have the conflict between the main characters who have been best friends since forever oppose each other because Eren actions are not validated by the story, in fact, that's why you'll see a lot of people saying "it's ok if Eren wins, but it can't have a happy ending" and that's the thing, if this story ends on a happy note, then i'd completely agree this would be a validations of genocide and a complete disappointment and. In my opinion, i think the ending (whether Eren is stopped or not) is going to be sad and melancholic as fuck, because Isayama is presenting Eren's actions as wrong and something he'll have to pay for it.
Are you serious?
You first asked why people are calling this ending pro genocide. We responed and now you talk about an ending that isn't the one everyone is talking about?
What?
You know what else sums up plot points really nicely and also invalidates that article? Reading the actual manga.
There will always be those that side with Eren because of this panel its small genocide vs entire world genocide.
Sure, but it takes less time to read an article then read hundreds of manga chapters.
Then feel free to stay ignorant. Not sure what else to tell you. Enjoy the article, btw.
Not necessarily disagreeing with the rest, but he specifically waited and only launched that attack
a) after the Eldia human rights movement, the only potential ally for Paradis had completely denounced the island dwellers as satan spawns in an effort to save their own ass (same mentality most of Eldians in the ghetto had btw, albeit of course terribly misguided, which was the point of the author imo).
b) specifically moments after the whole world was clapping and cheering in tears declaring war to kill every last "island devil".
Obviously Isayama has very intentionally framed this to make the readers constantly question what could be done if there are truly only very absolute choices left, and how horrible things might get if the world is perceived like that by both sides, which in my opinion very rare in entertainment (in entertainment there is usually always a deus ex disney happy solution which makes us feel good at the end, but unfortunately might now always reflect how people would really act).
Yet I believe if you think Isayama would let the whole world be massacred and actually glorify that or frame that as a happy ending, you really haven't been paying attention to his themes.
Don't think I've ever seen someone speak so confidently about something they know absolutely nothing about. It's fascinating.
I'm allowed to post my opinions about something. Go back to the OT if you don't want people commenting in threads who haven't read the whole thing.
Yes. People saying that any bad event with a "successful" outcome is an apology are so binary.
Whatever the ending, this genocide is obviously denounced by the atrocious ways it is shown, as well as the amount of characters explaining how it is bad, including the character doing it...
They are free to dislike the direction of the story obviously, but this "message" drama is nonsense.
Yup first page is garbage.
"Oh I haven't read since chapter 25 but that genocide direction is stupid hurdur just another Code Gease"
Of course it sounds ridiculous when you jump to the last chapter and skip everything in between.
I'm normally not a fan of bittersweet but I'm surprisingly ok with this ending. So that last panel that Isayama showed was Eren with his child.
everyone and their mother is trying to stop Eren, but hey! there is a genocide so the author is in favor of them obviously.
We're also allowed to call you out on your BS when you speak ignorantly on a topic you know nothing about.
AoT was never going to end without massive death.
Marley was never going to back down, and Eren's extreme obsession with freedom coupled with essentially being granted godly powers meant he was never going to back down either.
Both sides are presented as wrong, and Eren's side is shown as coming from a completely different viewpoint for what are essentially the same kind of goals.
I think it's pretty obvious that Eren knows he'll likely be stopped, and most likely it'll be the people he cared about the most (Armin and Mikasa) who are gonna put an end to him. But he's never had the free will to break from that path, because he's always been a slave.
Marley was never going to back down, and Eren's extreme obsession with freedom coupled with essentially being granted godly powers meant he was never going to back down either.
Both sides are presented as wrong, and Eren's side is shown as coming from a completely different viewpoint for what are essentially the same kind of goals.
I think it's pretty obvious that Eren knows he'll likely be stopped, and most likely it'll be the people he cared about the most (Armin and Mikasa) who are gonna put an end to him. But he's never had the free will to break from that path, because he's always been a slave.
that article is pure bullshit and if you read the series like the rest of us that are telling you that it's bullshit, you would know.
Done.
Yeah, this is all depends on the ending.
The story clearly calls for Eren to be stopped.
You can have Eren win but it'd have to be in a way where it brings no one happiness not just Eren. Like, where humanity goes extinct or the survivors of Paradis just go into a civil war and Eren ended up solving nothing.
It has to stay true to this:
If the ending is just that Eren is sad about it but now he has a family & King of Paradis while Paradis is doing great then I'd have to say that the message is most definitely in favor of genocide as solving issues even if it shows a sad Eren.
And this speach happens BECAUSE of Eren as well.
There will also be those that side with Eren because of this panel its small genocide vs entire world genocide.
The guy doing the speach is aware of Eren and his plan but not aware that Eren has any qualm in pushing through.
There were other ways they could have managed this and they didn't.
The fact that the only other choice Eren had in the end was either sterilized his whole people or genocide everyone else was never an easy choice really.
The interesting part is that in the end the Rumbling is really the choice of the mistreated little progenitor, she's been taking shit her whole life and can now finally end it all.
I totally get what you're saying, and for the most part I agree. I don't think I'm arguing that Eren isn't a monster, just that he was forced to become a monster, and justify it to himself in the least painful way possible for him. No matter what he couldn't have avoided the future though - even if he did actions that he thought could counter to what is fated to happen.
But yeah I think it's a messy situation regardless. He's both a monster and a tragic character.
Lmao it won't be this, and even if it's somewhat similar it's not going to be as black and white as these terrible takes are implying...
Like this is kind of silly to even speculate if you've read any of AoT so far.
Hopefully, I won't ever be convinced that it can't go wrong until I see the ending.
The music video certainly implies that where it's going especially based on the OP's reading of it.
Yeah. People can't see the nuance of Eren both being genocidal and shown as being wrong for doing that, and also the fact that the story has presented him as a tragic figure.
What he's doing in incalculable evil, but it's powered by his real desperation, depression, heartbreak, and a world that would never let him do anything BUT this.
He was shown what he would do, and even tried to steer off that path but the world course-corrected him back to it. He's just like Ymir Fritz, a slave. A slave to fate.
We were discussing what the opening post was extrapolating from the Opening, nothing more.
You're saying "the ending would be" without much context. Even this rumor isn't all inclusive, which means you're making some assumptions there.
We don't know if it's presented as "good," and judging how the story is even now, that almost certainly won't be the case.
I don't think there's enough there to extrapolate in such wild and accusatory ways.
Not to mention this may have nothing to do with the AoT ending at all beyond similar themes.
Dude, it's manga.
It's not that important :v
Ok being passionate, but you seems to read even things like "if things go that way, it would be a bad look" as defamatory accusations against the author.
User Banned (3 days): drive-by; antagonizing other users
This thread is basically that ProZD clip where the Anime nerd barges in and gives a million tenuous justifications when someone criticizes a series, only instead of titties, it's fascism.
Saw the video. I'm digging this ending way more than what the cliff notes showed. I'd be fine with this ending. Definitely bittersweet.
I don't think so. Plenty of manga authors have contradicted their own themes. Isayama could easily join the list.
Hell, the extrapolation on this ending matches Isayama's final panel with what looks to be Eren holding a baby(likely Historia's) telling the baby that "they're free".
Willy is aware of Eren, but no way know his plan, he just reciting the old king false plan, he had no idea Eren was aware of this or have the ability to do it.
This speech is happening because of the Uprising Arc, they killed the King of Walls, the guy that would allow the island to be genocided
Can't defend what doesn't exist. Nice drive-by post though.
I mean, that's an easy way to handwave away any explaination given by people who actually read the manga to know what they are talking about.
Anyways, from what I'm seeing in the comments and other reddit threads so far, this is basically the one most people agree on:
Child Eren sitting under a tree (hmm reminds me of chapter 1) sees a vision of his future older self. Child Eren gets curious about the cloaked older Eren as he seen going to the graveyard to his respects. Child Eren notices that he is full of remorse and sadness and wonder what can be the cause of him being in such pain decides to follow him home.
I think at this point we could take note that once older Eren reaches the gates to his home he takes off his "snake mask" and is revealed that he is a fellow bird just like little Eren. We see that older Eren is welcomed warmly and happily by his community.
So what I took from that is that to outsiders, Eren is seen as a monster as sorts for the sins he committed but that's not the case with the place and people who surrounds him. He is a fellow bird (represent freedom).
We then see that older eren is greeted by his family (wife and a child that greets him affectionately upon arrival. He is loved by them).
Older Eren goes to a room alone and yet again we see him succumb to his grief. And this is where young Eren decides to touch older Eren and then able to see what happen in the past that made older Eren wind up like this (loved by those who surround him yet still a broken man).
Young Eren sees the mass amount of destruction devastation and deaths that his future self caused through rumbling. Angered and pushed by a sense of justice grabs an arrow plans to kill his future self who is now back in the graveyard.
But then the scenery in the graveyard changes and thousands of flowers bloom all over (symbolizes rebirth?) He drops the arrow probably realizing although there was a very heavy price paid- a much brighter future was created.
I don't put so much weight on this but I sense it could be foreshadowing of whats to come in the manga. Eren may survive rumbling yet he will spend the of his life full of grief, remorse and guilt. His child(with Historia) is what helps motivate him to keep living despite what happens.
Child Eren sitting under a tree (hmm reminds me of chapter 1) sees a vision of his future older self. Child Eren gets curious about the cloaked older Eren as he seen going to the graveyard to his respects. Child Eren notices that he is full of remorse and sadness and wonder what can be the cause of him being in such pain decides to follow him home.
I think at this point we could take note that once older Eren reaches the gates to his home he takes off his "snake mask" and is revealed that he is a fellow bird just like little Eren. We see that older Eren is welcomed warmly and happily by his community.
So what I took from that is that to outsiders, Eren is seen as a monster as sorts for the sins he committed but that's not the case with the place and people who surrounds him. He is a fellow bird (represent freedom).
We then see that older eren is greeted by his family (wife and a child that greets him affectionately upon arrival. He is loved by them).
Older Eren goes to a room alone and yet again we see him succumb to his grief. And this is where young Eren decides to touch older Eren and then able to see what happen in the past that made older Eren wind up like this (loved by those who surround him yet still a broken man).
Young Eren sees the mass amount of destruction devastation and deaths that his future self caused through rumbling. Angered and pushed by a sense of justice grabs an arrow plans to kill his future self who is now back in the graveyard.
But then the scenery in the graveyard changes and thousands of flowers bloom all over (symbolizes rebirth?) He drops the arrow probably realizing although there was a very heavy price paid- a much brighter future was created.
I don't put so much weight on this but I sense it could be foreshadowing of whats to come in the manga. Eren may survive rumbling yet he will spend the of his life full of grief, remorse and guilt. His child(with Historia) is what helps motivate him to keep living despite what happens.
Let me do an easy guess, you haven't read the manga.
Exactly. Armin survived instead of Erwin for something.