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Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,231
"Easy kills" means you don't want a fair game, you want to win. Which is very human, but stems from insecurity and hamstrings your learning, given you learn more by losing than by winning.
"Experimentation" is something you can do on your main account. If you care about your ranking so much that you find the idea of it dropping down temporarily due to a few losses, there's no other word to describe that but insecure.

That said, we're all insecure in some or other way, and insecurity about a videogame is a rather harmless thing in the grand scheme of things. "Insecure" is not the insult a lot of people seem to think it is; it's only when that insecurity becomes obsessive and crippling that it becomes a problem.
My main push on the bolded is games and teammates go out of their way to punish experimentation once you hit a certain threshold. I have a 2nd Valorant account to play with friends that have a horrible time if they queue up and play around my Elo. I had this happen in Dota 2 a lot actually, new hero is released and I want to try it. Gave it a solid week to get used to it(I think it was ember spirit this time) and that was quite frankly the most toxic week of gaming I ever experienced and was genuinely reported for "throwing" pretty much every game for one or two missed opportunities as I got used to him.

Overwatch has done a much better job at dealing with this by giving you 3 separate queues/ranking so if I'm trying to play DPS for a week, I don't fall into wildly disproportionate skill level games because my tank rating is as high as it is.

Having alt accounts does not strictly come down to some form of insecurity.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Then like I said, it's just how I associate it, because literally all those things apply to capital G Gamers for me

OK, so just we're on the same page here: what's your definition of "Gamers", exactly? What specific attributes differentiate them from gamers?

My main push on the bolded is games and teammates go out of their way to punish experimentation once you hit a certain threshold.

One hundred percent valid, and that's entirely my bad for not taking into account multiplayer games. I was thinking exclusively of 1v1 games, sorry. In a multiplayer context smurfing is the more considerate option for your teammates (if not the opponents).
 

Zealuu

Member
Feb 13, 2018
1,182
smurfing and KB&M is all over console Overwatch and Apex. It's really obvious when a lvl6 McKree is pinging headshots like it's nothing and Ana's are jumping constantly, hiting sleep darts from a mile away. Ugh.

That's interesting. Seen some high-level PC players play Apex with Xbox pads. No idea how it works out in Overwatch though.

I think smurfing is understandable to an extent - if you just wanna play some chill games and your normal ranked crew isn't around etc.
 

Wetflix

Member
Mar 16, 2019
116
I don't really have a problem with smurfs, but I do notice smurfs often ask me what my real rank is or get mad when I start camping them.
 

Miaus

Member
Jan 28, 2018
416
Because you learn nothing from a game go into expecting to have a chance to win and just getting destroyed by someone many ranks above you.

It would be like you playing on a high school football team, making it to the playoffs, and then suddenly you go against team where 20% of it is NFL players. You don't learn anything from that, it's just frustration.

You can play against people you know are better than you and learn something, but if you are knowingly doing that, you don't have any expectation to win and likely won't be frustrated by that.

I understand but is all about the mind set, I used to play a lot of Brood War when I was in college and I would just get absolutely destroyed by Koreans and that was fine, I just watched the replays a learned a lot, because I wanted to learn and improve. That's what 95% of people don't do and mindlessly play years and years and barely learn anything and blame others for their losses.

When I started playing League I landed in Bronze III, but I was used to watch professional Korean games so I just started to do that, took me about a month and a half to reach Diamond, but granted, I was already used to study a game, and in comparison, league is just a way WAY easier game than Brood War.

The higher the ranking you are, the more important the mental fortitude is, low level players don't have that, it is not all about the mechanical skill. I've played thousand of games in low ELO in League and maybe 1 in 100 players notice you are clearly better than them, the rest will just get mad, told you you got matched against a troll, blame their team, don't listen to any advice you give them and so on.
 

N64Controller

Member
Nov 2, 2017
8,330
To me smurfing is only an issue when a player games the system in order to stay in relatively low ELO for a while and use the account as their outlet to let off steam after getting railed in their actual ranks.

Some people smurf because their real account was banned and they're climbing back up. Some people smurf because they want to see how quick they get reach X rank on Y role. Some people smurf because they're hard stuck in their ranks and don,t have what it takes to improve, so they want to feel better about themselves.

The reality, however, is that most games pretty much put smurfs where they belong unless they find a way to play the system. That Genji player that clearly stomped you in OW that one time will most likely climb extremely fast and be matched with players of their caliber soon enough. That smurf you faced in League will have such an inflated MMR that they will be out of your hair soon.

But here's the kicker, a lot of time people scream at SMURF any time they get owned in a game. Players playing Overwatch for years, sucking at the game, being matched all the time with low level players thinking it surely is a Smurf, because I'm high level I shouldn't be matched with them! Everytime I get rolled over by a player in League and I assume they're a smurf I look at their OP.gg, 99% of the time it's just some random scrub that got fed in my particular game and has a shitty winrate.

The higher the ranking you are, the more important the mental fortitude is, low level players don't have that, it is not all about the mechanical skill. I've played thousand of games in low ELO in League and maybe 1 in 100 players notice you are clearly better than them, the rest will just get mad, told you you got matched against a troll, blame their team, don't listen to any advice you give them and so on.

Low ELO is the land of people reporting others for being toxic when they're given advice, or told what they did was bad and cost you the game. In any game. It's also Dunning-Kruger land, no matter what happens it's never their fault. You,re right on the money too about mechanical skill, just in League alone there's lots of Gold players that are very good mechanically, but have no idea how to win and what to do.

Me? I'm both bad mechanically and don't know how the fuck to play :D
 

ABK281

Member
Apr 5, 2018
3,001
What's a bigger sign of insecurity, 'smurfing' or creating a thread on Resetera to complain about getting mollywhopped in a video game?
 

Deleted member 52442

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 24, 2019
10,774
OK, so just we're on the same page here: what's your definition of "Gamers", exactly? What specific attributes differentiate them from gamers?


Like if someone on this forum was to say "Gamers wont like that" or "Gamers acting up" I would immediately know they were talking about toxic (usually) white men getting uppity about something to do with race/women/representation etc. If you do a search for threads with the word "Gamers" on this forum you see threads talking about the general stereotype and issues, one member sums it up pretty well

It doesn't take a genius to realize that "gamers" isnt directed at literally every single person that plays game but the larger cultural issues that infest this hobby and the communities dedicated to it.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Like if someone on this forum was to say "Gamers wont like that" or "Gamers acting up" I would immediately know they were talking about toxic (usually) white men getting uppity about something to do with race/women/representation etc. If you do a search for threads with the word "Gamers" on this forum you see threads talking about the general stereotype and issues, one member sums it up pretty well

So it would be accurate to say that your definition of "Gamers" is "bigoted gamers", as opposed to "hardcore gamers"?

(it's not the setup for a gotcha; I just think a lot of disagreements come down to a matter of definitions).

(edit: also not a comment either way on what percentage of "gamers" does "bigoted gamers" encompass).
 
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Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,321
What's a bigger sign of insecurity, 'smurfing' or creating a thread on Resetera to complain about getting mollywhopped in a video game?
I do understand OPs complaint, and I don't think it comes from insecurity but rather frustration. Imagine playing basketball at the park in a 5v5 with people who never even played in high school and then LeBron James in fake glasses and a mustache shows up to take the spot of somebody who left. It's just not fun to log in with what little time people have available to get destroyed by people who are so far above their level that there's not even a chance to fight back.
 

Swiggins

was promised a tag
Member
Apr 10, 2018
11,446
You know how not everybody you disagree with is a Nazi.

Not everybody who's an asshole is an incel.
 

SmackDaddy

Member
Nov 25, 2017
3,151
Los Angeles
What's a bigger sign of insecurity, 'smurfing' or creating a thread on Resetera to complain about getting mollywhopped in a video game?

Smurfing.

Ruins competitive integrity of a game. More people play at lower ranks, so you are tarnishing the game quality for more people.

I feel like it's impossible to learn from the random diamond smurf in valorant. "Ok so what I'm seeing here is I should be clicking on people's heads more". Raw hand-eye coordination can't really be "taught".

Sorry it's stressful for you up in high ranks. It's stressful for us shitters at low ranks too. Your diamond stress is not more valuable than my gold stress, and I'm never gonna make a smurf and throw games to be in iron on a smurf, becuase that sounds like the activity of a depressed person who gets their worth from a computer game. Losing can still be fun. Learn to enjoy the game regardless.

A lot of people are also chocking it up to insecurity on the lower ranked players and equating it with "lag" or "hacks". Dog, silvers don't go 50-5 and flick headshots from 180 degrees the other direction all game. It prly happens once every 20 games to this extent, but it's just another demoralizer on the ranked climb.
 

Deleted member 52442

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 24, 2019
10,774
So it would be accurate to say that your definition of "Gamers" is "bigoted gamers", as opposed to "hardcore gamers"?

(it's not the setup for a gotcha; I just think a lot of disagreements come down to a matter of definitions).

(edit: also not a comment either way on what percentage of "gamers" does "bigoted gamers" encompass).

Yeah pretty much, It's probably due to the way I've been exposed to the term (like we said I post on here a lot) but I'm 100% only thinking about bigoted gamers
 

ABK281

Member
Apr 5, 2018
3,001
Smurfing.

Ruins competitive integrity of a game. More people play at lower ranks, so you are tarnishing the game quality for more people.

I feel like it's impossible to learn from the random diamond smurf in valorant. "Ok so what I'm seeing here is I should be clicking on people's heads more". Raw hand-eye coordination can't really be "taught".

Sorry it's stressful for you up in high ranks. It's stressful for us shitters at low ranks too. Your diamond stress is not more valuable than my gold stress, and I'm never gonna make a smurf and throw games to be in iron on a smurf, becuase that sounds like the activity of a depressed person who gets their worth from a computer game. Losing can still be fun. Learn to enjoy the game regardless.

A lot of people are also chocking it up to insecurity on the lower ranked players and equating it with "lag" or "hacks". Dog, silvers don't go 50-5 and flick headshots from 180 degrees the other direction all game. It prly happens once every 20 games to this extent, but it's just another demoralizer on the ranked climb.
It definitely happens, ask the prestige level whatever the fuck that I demolished in my first match ever in CoD Cold War because they apparently don't match you with similarly leveled players in that game. There's not enough mechanics involved in a fps for there to be a massive skill gap unless the lower ranker player is just plain bad.

On the other hand, it can matter in something like League of Legends for example, but even then there's a lot of luck involved and time spent playing. Most people that play league and are stuck in diamond are no better then a silver player, they just got carried harder and played a lot more.

I'm unranked because I don't play much and don't touch rankee yet I'm better than a friend of mine that's in Challenger.
 

Charsace

Chicken Chaser
Member
Nov 22, 2017
2,864
In team games people always think they getting smurfed, but it could also be that the overall team is working together better and one guy happens to be cleaning up kills. Especially in mobas.
 
Aug 13, 2019
3,575
Yeah they're acting like I'm calling them incels. Lots of defensive posts here.

Obviously gamers as a whole aren't incels but when you're intentionally playing against lower ranked people and being toxic towards them, they share similarities with the mindset of an incel. Both are similarly toxic.

smurf account literally said in chat "bet you guys are all black." as if that had anything to do with our loss. That sounds like an incel to me.
Not really. Incel is an ideology dedicated to hating, harassing, and assaulting women. Smurfs ruin a match sometimes. These two are actually incomparable.
 

Crono

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,478
I have smurf accounts mainly for csgo too play with friends since my rank is global and they are gold nova. However when I use those accounts I just use shotgun or pistols. Still have advantage but not trying to crush others.
 
Oct 25, 2017
632
So this is what Smurf means?! I play Rocket League and I'm not that great at it. Once and a while I'll win a match and someone starts yelling "Smurf!!" or "Stop Smurfing" and I had no idea what they were talking about. So basically some sore losers are assuming that I created a seperate account just to win a match? That is really hilarious to me.
 

MrNewVegas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,708
It definitely happens, ask the prestige level whatever the fuck that I demolished in my first match ever in CoD Cold War because they apparently don't match you with similarly leveled players in that game. There's not enough mechanics involved in a fps for there to be a massive skill gap unless the lower ranker player is just plain bad.

On the other hand, it can matter in something like League of Legends for example, but even then there's a lot of luck involved and time spent playing. Most people that play league and are stuck in diamond are no better then a silver player, they just got carried harder and played a lot more.

I'm unranked because I don't play much and don't touch rankee yet I'm better than a friend of mine that's in Challenger.
I just watched a video of 5 iron players versus 5 radiant players in Valorant. The conditions of the game were that the radiant a had to win all 13 rounds. If one of them died in a round they were out from all successive rounds.

The irons didn't land a kill until round 7. Round 8 they took out 3 more. It was 1v5 round 9 and beyond. The solo radiant won 4 rounds versus them. It wasn't until the final round the 5 irons were able to kill the solo.
 

Columbina

Member
Oct 25, 2017
86
Smurfs are a huge issue..

It makes it really hard to get into League for example, I've been recently getting into League a lot and I just kinda power through the levels now to get off the smurf area MMR or whatever the matchmaking determine.
 

ABK281

Member
Apr 5, 2018
3,001
I just watched a video of 5 iron players versus 5 radiant players in Valorant. The conditions of the game were that the radiant a had to win all 13 rounds. If one of them died in a round they were out from all successive rounds.

The irons didn't land a kill until round 7. Round 8 they took out 3 more. It was 1v5 round 9 and beyond. The solo radiant won 4 rounds versus them. It wasn't until the final round the 5 irons were able to kill the solo.
Okay? I don't even know what type of game Valorant is so you'll have to inform me. If it's a FPS for example then they just had 5 extremely bad players. My entire point in my post is that I don't even believe that most of the people that are fucking up OP are smurfs. If I was in his game I bet he'd think I'm a smurf but the only reason I would be matched with him to begin with is because I don't played ranked yet have like thousands of games played in normals.
 

MrNewVegas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,708
Okay? I don't even know what type of game Valorant is so you'll have to inform me. If it's a FPS for example then they just had 5 extremely bad players. My entire point in my post is that I don't even believe that most of the people that are fucking up OP are smurfs. If I was in his game I bet he'd think I'm a smurf but the only reason I would be matched with him to begin with is because I don't played ranked yet have like thousands of games played in normals.
Since you went with the condescending "okay?" lol...

Valorant is obviously a puzzler and that's why I commented with an anecdote on your post about the skill gap being minor in FPS games.

And a big FYI since you seem to act like an authority on the state of competitive advantage on FPS, unranked games have hidden MMR.
 
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OP
hwarang

hwarang

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,451
Okay? I don't even know what type of game Valorant is so you'll have to inform me. If it's a FPS for example then they just had 5 extremely bad players. My entire point in my post is that I don't even believe that most of the people that are fucking up OP are smurfs. If I was in his game I bet he'd think I'm a smurf but the only reason I would be matched with him to begin with is because I don't played ranked yet have like thousands of games played in normals.

lol. you can look up someone's history in League of Legends. player is super low level with extremely high kill death ratio. plays mechanically different than rest of everyone and not in a small margin type of way. talks shit in game and after game. word pool consist of racism and toxic shit. I don't go "lol smurf" without a valid reason. It's not "thousand of games played in normals". It's "games played to level up to play ranked bought account level" . come on.
 

Cloud-Strife

Alt-Account
Banned
Sep 27, 2019
3,140
Since Rocket League went F2P this is a huge problem with ranked games.

I've seen people who belong in the highest ranks playing vs the lowest tiers of players when my little cousin plays ranked.

Some people is just sad to say the least.
 
OP
OP
hwarang

hwarang

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,451
Yeah pretty much, It's probably due to the way I've been exposed to the term (like we said I post on here a lot) but I'm 100% only thinking about bigoted gamers

lol dude don't waste your time. I completely get what you're saying and people are just taking this way too literally.

there's gamers.. and then there's "GAMERS". the latter I associate with those toxic players in online games.

" go hang yourself"
" hahahha n word".

fuck that. those are incels and they fit the bill for it.

however in all fairness, I do believe the ones that are getting defensive mean it in good intention. they just don't have the context of the toxicity that's rampant in online games.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Yeah pretty much, It's probably due to the way I've been exposed to the term (like we said I post on here a lot) but I'm 100% only thinking about bigoted gamers

OK, then do you get why people take issue at equating something relatively harmless like smurfing, to being a racist / sexist piece of shit? That was my (and everyone else's) whole point.

however in all fairness, I do believe the ones that are getting defensive mean it in good intention. they just don't have the context of the toxicity that's rampant in online games.

Or perhaps everyone in this thread calling you out just think that equating smurfing with racism and homophobia is quite the non sequitur.

888.jpg


Props for managing to invoke Godwin's law in the very first post and derail your own thread before it starts, though!
 

MoosGoMoo

Banned
Jan 27, 2021
717
I don't really like matchmaking or ranked.

Give me a free for all with all skill ranges in the same match. Separates the men from the boys quickly.
 

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,038
I know an 11 year old who smurfs sometimes in Fortnite. I silently judged him hard. Some people just really hate losing lol.
 

komaruR

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,045
http://www.twitch.tv/komarur
My main push on the bolded is games and teammates go out of their way to punish experimentation once you hit a certain threshold. I have a 2nd Valorant account to play with friends that have a horrible time if they queue up and play around my Elo. I had this happen in Dota 2 a lot actually, new hero is released and I want to try it. Gave it a solid week to get used to it(I think it was ember spirit this time) and that was quite frankly the most toxic week of gaming I ever experienced and was genuinely reported for "throwing" pretty much every game for one or two missed opportunities as I got used to him.

Overwatch has done a much better job at dealing with this by giving you 3 separate queues/ranking so if I'm trying to play DPS for a week, I don't fall into wildly disproportionate skill level games because my tank rating is as high as it is.

Having alt accounts does not strictly come down to some form of insecurity.
wish ow have a group que that has like a group synergy mmr calculated strictly with those specific players within the group and not just an avg between the individuals mmr. so if you que with another friend, you start with another group mmr too.
think its somewhat like how sc2 group rank was? (think that how it was back when its started but i dunno how it is now)