SMT Fans! Is SMT III: Nocturne HD an appropriate first game for series newcomers or should we wait for SMT V?

[MrMegaMill]

Topic.

I have played Persona 3, 4, 5 and loved them and I am a pretty big JRPG fan in general. Hard games don't necessarily scare me off (currently beating BDII), but I have heard SMT III can be a bit excessive in the difficulty and a little janky..... The remaster is also a bit expensive ($70 CAD).

I've always wanted to start playing the series as I really enjoy its spinoffs, but I don't want to be scared away by a notorious game such as this. Should I just take the plunge or wait, play through SMT V with the modern QoL updates it will naturally bring and then jump into this game later?

 

[Spazerbeam]

The PS2 version is the one I started with after I finished playing Persona 3 and 4 back in the day. It's really great and really engrossing. The new features they're adding into the HD remaster should make it even easier to jump right in.

 

[snausages]

Persona 3 is actually harder than smt3 I think.

The main difference is just that you have to actually think about your party composition or you won't be able to beat certain fights. Rather than having a predefined party all the time. If you get beat up you just go back and mess around with fusions/maybe grind

 

[Rosebud]

Never played one too, but planning to start with this since it has a "Merciful mode" in case I need it lol

 

[Patryn]

Just remember that Matador is a skill gate to ensure that you understand covering and exploiting weaknesses and the press turn system.

 

[Izanagi89]

Naa, Nocturne is 100% worth the playthrough. It's such a unique JRPG so don't be put off by it's reputation. It is pretty hard but it's manageable. This is the perfect entry point

 

[Cerulean_skylark]

It was my first and really leaves an impression. It's atmosphere is so good and really only dds ever got close to replicating it.
but the story is very... not absent, but it's more about ideas and philosophies and it's not very front ended. You'll spend a lot of the beginning of the game just kind of wandering the world until you get really invested in what's going on, which is very appropriate to the story it's telling.

if you really need a lot of persona style story development at all times to motivate you, you won't find it here

but there is a lot of customization to your party, and I like jrpg like smt3 where you can outright break the game if you know what you're doing but be seriously challenged when you don't

 

[Deleted member 56266]

Nocturne is one of the greatest games ever so yes play it!

 

[TeenageFBI]

Persona 3 is actually harder than smt3 I think.

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No way. Nope nope nope.

SMT3 is great and it holds up today but it asks a lot from players. Those dungeons are rough, enemies are strong, etc.

 

[Emerald]

The game has free DLC which adds an easy mode, and they added a big QoL update in Skill Inheritance allowing you to choose to carry over skills from Demon Fusing so I'd say definitely go for it.

 

[Oreiller]

No way. Nope nope nope.

SMT3 is great and it holds up today but it asks a lot from players. Those dungeons are rough, enemies are strong, etc.

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None of its mandatory bosses are as bullshit as the sleeping table and you don't have to pray for your companion AI to not be dumb.

 

[headfallsoff]

It's totally fine. The game is on the challenging side but it's reputation as this near impossible beast is overblown. It's just a good JRPG you'll have a great time. No reason to wait.

 

[Weiss]

It's a perfectly playable entry point, especially since the remaster removes the most annoying part of the game; you can now manually choose skills when fusing demons, and Nocturne is straight up one of the all-time best SMT games.

All you really need to know about playing SMT is that it doesn't let you rush things. You can't mash attack until the enemy is dead, you need to exploit weaknesses for extra turns and protect yourself. Also use buff and debuffs, they are the most important skills to have on your demons. Unlike in Persona buffs and debuffs stack up to four times in Nocturne and affect the entire party at once.

If you're coming off the modern Persona trilogy you're perfectly equipped for mainline SMT.

 

[blonded]

SMT3's overall difficulty is kinda overrated because of this one boss early on

 

[Soriku]

The difficulty is overrated unless you play on Hard mode to start (don't do this IMO). Normal is balanced fine as long as you get the hang of the fusion and identifying what demons or skills you need to progress.

Also I'm not sure if they added an autosave but save often, at least every 30 mins if you can.

 

[ventuno]

Nocturne is challenging, but you won't find yourself completely alienated by its mechanics since Persona 3/4/5 introduces you to SMT mechanics a little. You'll have to be more careful with weaknesses and how to exploit them as well as your party composition.... and poisoned/trap floors.

I agree that Nocturne's story isn't as lengthy as P3/P4/P5, but it's still very engrossing and the game will certainly keep you busy, especially if you decide to tackle all of its challenges. The story is told in a way where a newcomer to the series can still jump in despite a few allusions to past titles here and there.

On a side note, I would recommend playing SMTIV before SMTV.

 

[BasilZero]

I'd say start with SMTIV (like I did :p).

 

[Leo]

Absolutely, it's the best entry point IMO. It's an incredible game and probably my favorite PS2 RPG.

I don't think there is a better entry point since 1 and 2 feel very dated unless niche retro games are your thing and 4 isn't as good as 3 (but it's still great).

 

[Igor]

People used to position it as Souls of jRPGs but it is really not that bad, the infamous Matador is there to teach you how to use offensive and defensive magic and how important magatama (elemental alignment) and demon affinities/fusions are - perhaps sounds complicated but these systems are quite simple mechanically and easy to get your head around.

I think the challenge for me used to come from save points which is supposedly alleviated in this release.

Having said all that just wait for the price drop, as amazing title as it is.

 

[snausages]

No way. Nope nope nope.

SMT3 is great and it holds up today but it asks a lot from players. Those dungeons are rough, enemies are strong, etc.

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Well I've only got 15 year old memories to pull from I guess but I remember kind of hating just how rough Persona 3 got, especially with how it constrained how you could grind and not being able to control party members. It's the worst bullshit I've ever put up with from this series (playing SMTIII, P3 and 4 and only some of SMTIV and P5)

All I know is Matador gave me trouble cause I didn't realise how important debuffs were at that point but anyone who has played Persona knows what Sukukuja is now. Also the optional dungeon has some instakill BS but then so does persona

 

[V_ac]

If you can handle P3/P4/P5's difficulty you'll be fine for Nocturne. On normal Nocturne's difficulty is similar to those three, at worst one or two bosses might get you.

 

[julia crawford]

I thought the Nocturne remaster had some problems, like the music assets being low quality? Or is that no longer the case?

 

[Necromorph]

I hope Atlus make a port of SMT IV to PC and modern platforms, that game is so good.

 

[Emerald]

I thought the Nocturne remaster had some problems, like the music assets being low quality? Or is that no longer the case?

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The music is still really compressed the same as in the PS2 version yeah.

 

[julia crawford]

The music is still really compressed the same as in the PS2 version yeah.

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Awww... Nocturne era Shoji Meguro deserves so much better.....

 

[Tyrant Rave]

Yeah you can start with it, you'll be fine. Keep in mind it was the West's first game in the series, so many of us did. And now with newer QoL features and the incredible wealth of information online, you have nothing to worry about.

People really exaggerate the difficulty. Just fuse your demons when you get stuck and make use of buffs/debuffs and you'll be fine. It sounds like you've played spin-offs already so you should be familiar with all that.

 

[StraySheep]

I'm wondering if I should go restart IV and finish that first. But then again I should probably get back to Strange Journey first.

Im really good at starting and not finishing 3DS rpgs.

 

[Crayolan]

If you beat P3 you can handle Nocturne IMO. I played Nocturne right after P3 and I thought P3 had generally tougher bosses, Nocturne just has more difficult dungeon crawling. Though I guess because the difficulty is more heavily focused on the dungeon crawling you're more likely to lose progress when you die unlike P3 where dying 10 times on a tartarus boss doesn't set you back at all.

 

[Chackan]

After learning that SMTIII was coming to PC I had the same question. Always heard that SMT games were HARD, maybe even more than Persona 1 Hard and Persona 1 was hard lol

I never played any SMT, only all of the Personas (except for 2), so I don't even know what to expect.

 

[Mirage]

Nocturne was the first one I played and I had a good experience with it, and that was within the last couple years.

 

[disparate]

Play III, then IV, then probably V.

 

[Tyrant Rave]

After learning that SMTIII was coming to PC I had the same question. Always heard that SMT games were HARD, maybe even more than Persona 1 Hard and Persona 1 was hard lol

I never played any SMT, only all of the Personas (except for 2), so I don't even know what to expect.

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The only SMT game that was localized that I think is really brutal is Strange Journey. Nocturne is pretty tough if you don't have the experience with any of the franchise, but if you've played several Persona games you'll be familiar with all the rules and concepts, and I think you'll have a smooth ride. It's not that much of a step up. Just don't get attached to your demons and fuse a lot.

 

[thediamondage]

Do the SMT games have a story path through them that means its important to play in order, or is it like Persona where each is more or less independent with some minor easter eggs for fans to interconnect?

 

[Jebusman]

SMTIII's difficulty is a bit overstated, but only because the passage of time has introduced so many more people to SMT or SMT-adjacent games since its release.

When Nocturne is your introduction to SMT, there's a lot of things that long time SMT fans may have been more prepared for than first time SMT players. But once you understand the special kind of hell these games are, you can anticipate and hopefully deal with the shit that it throws at you (Matador and Mot being the two meme examples that aren't all that hard once you understand how SMT flows)

 

[V_ac]

Do the SMT games have a story path through them that means its important to play in order, or is it like Persona where each is more or less independent with some minor easter eggs for fans to interconnect?

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SMT2 follows SMT1's Neutral ending.

SMTIV Apocalypse follows a variation of SMTIV's Neutral ending.

Everything else is independent of one another.

 

[Kazer]

I'd say it's a great place to start. Started with it myself when it launched in the US.

 

[Jebusman]

Do the SMT games have a story path through them that means its important to play in order, or is it like Persona where each is more or less independent with some minor easter eggs for fans to interconnect?

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Some of the sub-franchises are either loosely connected or have direct sequels (persona 3/4 take place in the same world, Devil Summoner Raidou 2 is a direct sequel to Raidou 1). Otherwise it's all pretty independent.

 

[Enduin]

Nocturne is a great game so it's definitely worth playing. IV and IVA were a good deal different from it though and I wouldn't be surprised if that held true for V as well. So I would caution that liking or not liking certain aspects of Nocturne doesn't necessarily mean you'll also like/dislike V as a result.

It not like Persona where 3/4/5 are like 98% the same structure/gameplay wise. The SMT games have a good deal more variation between them in a lot of areas.

 

[NeonZ]

Nocturne/III lacks the "human world invaded by mythological demons" setting and that always hurt it to me since it's one of the elements I like about the series. It does pretty much establish the modern gameplay mechanics of the series though (aside from the fusion system, which apparently was updated in a post-launch patch too).

Do the SMT games have a story path through them that means its important to play in order, or is it like Persona where each is more or less independent with some minor easter eggs for fans to interconnect?

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SMTII is a direct sequel to I. III is pretty much completely unrelated aside from minor references. IV takes place in its own world, but there's one character from I/II who makes several appearances and whose origins are never properly explained in IV.

 

[werezompire]

SMT: Nocturne isn't THAT hard unless you're playing on Hard mode & trying to do all the Fiend optional content. Normal's not too bad. And the remaster has a new Easy mode.

 

[FinFunnels]

Nocturne is a great starting point. And since you have a lot of experience with Persona, the battle system and fusions will feel familiar enough to you. Plus you'll recognize most of the demons and their abilities as well.

My first SMT was actually DDS2 (lol I know, starting with part 2), but I loved that game so much that I bought Nocturne and DD1 as soon as I could find copies of them (back then that meant going to a lot of different GameStops since I didn't have a debit/credit card yet). I became such a big fan of the series that I was there day 1 for Devil Summoner, Persona 3, Devil Summoner 2 and Persona 4. I even imported the Japanese version of Persona 4 lol. But I'm ashamed to admit I kind of fell off the series once they started making them for DS/3DS instead. I bought the PSP and Vita Persona games, but to this day I still have yet to play Strange Journey, SMTIV, etc. I really need to change that.

 

[SaberVS7]

I mean, for "SMT Fans" Nocturne was LITERALLY the "First Game for Newcomers" on account of being the first localized SMT game fullstop.

 

[Mercador]

70$ CDN? Holy ! What's so special about that remaster?

 

[Marmoka]

I would play SMT IV right now, while you wait for Nocturne.

 

[Rommaz]

Nocturne/III lacks the "human world invaded by mythological demons" setting and that always hurt it to me since it's one of the elements I like about the series. It does pretty much establish the modern gameplay mechanics of the series though (aside from the fusion system, which apparently was updated in a post-launch patch too).



SMTII is a direct sequel to I. III is pretty much completely unrelated aside from minor references. IV takes place in its own world, but there's one character from I/II who makes several appearances and whose origins are never properly explained in IV.

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Uhjmmm which character is in IV who was in I and II? You can put it in spoiler tag i guess

 

[Deleted member 36578]

It's where I started and I've been a fan of the series ever since.

 

[NeonZ]

Uhjmmm which character is in IV who was in I and II? You can put it in spoiler tag i guess

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Spoiler

Stephen.

 

[tokkun]

No way. Nope nope nope.

SMT3 is great and it holds up today but it asks a lot from players. Those dungeons are rough, enemies are strong, etc.

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I dunno, the original release of Persona 3 could be fairly punishing. The whole inability to control your other party members directly, combined with game over when the MC died made it pretty easy to end up wiping due to bad luck.

 

[SirNinja]

If you've gone through Persona 3/4/5, you're fairly well-prepared for Nocturne's difficulty for the most part. You probably already know that buff/debuff skills matter a lot more in SMT than in most other series; that's doubly true in Nocturne, which throws some notorious boss fights at you early on to basically teach you that the hard way. Be prepared for them and you won't have too much trouble here.

The remaster also has some QoL features of its own, like being able to actually choose which skills your fused demons inherit rather than leaving it up to chance. That alone will help with the difficulty curve quite a bit. You can also switch to Merciful (a free DLC difficulty; gives you 2x damage/defense, 3x XP and 4x money) whenever you want, if you hit a serious roadblock or just don't want to grind as much.

 

[Trigger]

Nocturne was my first entry in the setting. None of it felt overwhelming or crazy for an average JRPG fan.