Smash Ultimate offline input lag analysis

[Duderino]

Ah so a patch won't fix this... Oh well.

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Sure it could, but it's a difficult problem to solve.

Strikes me as a little odd that SmashU runs at 60 FPS but has input latency more in line with a 30 FPS tittle. Sounds like the input handler may be taking a backseat or other tasks may be obstructing it from doing its job on schedule.

I hope Nintendo looks into this further. The quicker pace of this Smash tittle would feel infinitely better with lower input lag, even if it leads to a few dropped frames.

So wait this is the same lag as RDR2?

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RDR2 would basically be *fixed* if Rockstar could get it under 100ms. That game is far worse off than SmashU.

 

[Nacho]

So they're just measuring from but to press to screen response? Are they all on the same TV is my first question. Obviously the earlier consoles will be faster by virtue of being on crt tvs as well. I imagine the way the 3ds works, it also has a similar benefit. Am I blind or do I also not see results for portable mode?

 

[808s & Villainy]

Ah so a patch won't fix this... Oh well.

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Lol, I have no idea how you arrived at that conclusion from a bunch of people speculating what the lag is caused by

 

[Deleted member 12009]

There's something to this buffering problem. I often find myself mashing out normals on the ground and being unable to move or switch directions because of it. I was chalking it up to online lag but it's probably simply playing out the sequence I input.

Online is going to be a serious trial if it remains this way

 

[Deleted member 3017]

Hope this can be fixed for those that are having issues, but I think this game feels incredible to play. But I'm no pro player, that's for sure.

 

[Elyian]

It's making online play not as fun honestly. I still really love this game so far, but man is it a huge pain to deal with this input delay. Even worse 5o hear that this wouldn't be a simple fix either.

 

[FSLink]

You're objectively wrong. There are other fighting games out there that drop input lag to low levels.

There is no good reason that I can see that input lag should ever be that high. Period.

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Look, I'm pretty sensitive to input lag. I own a few ASUS monitors and only got a 4K TV with the least amount of it. I'm a competitive Marvel vs Capcom and DBFZ player, dabble in many others, I'm aware of other games.

Having 1 more frame on average than Melee isn't something to get so annoyed about. Especially when it's pretty clear that some people just aren't used to how Ultimate buffers certain actions differently that they think it's an input lag issue.

I'm not saying it isn't there, I'm saying that most people in here can't even tell between the two.

Also I want to add, the feeling of Smash Ultimate is different all together. They changed a lot. I'm sure most people here aren't noticing the lag, they're just not used to the changes in the mechanics.

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Yep. It absolutely needs to gets lowered but I think people are overblowing this issue when it's really them messing up due to the different buffering and mechanics.

 

[Shadow]

I didn't notice anything. Altough I've been in the top leaderboards on Rayman Legends with Motion smoothing on the TV lmao. That made the TV about 130ms~ itself. (This was before I read about how it affected stuff). Game is twitch heavy too, even more so than Smash. Your brain will adjust and you won't even notice it after a few hours.

Also I want to add, the feeling of Smash Ultimate is different all together. They changed a lot. I'm sure most people here aren't noticing the lag, they're just not used to the changes in the mechanics.

 

[NHarmonic.]

I'll +1 to the pro controller feels weird.

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Same for me. Such a shame because it was expensive af and i bought it especially for this game.

 

[J_ToSaveTheDay]

Oh, so it's the game and not just me.

Odd. Disappointing.

... But I'm still having fun.

 

[AtomicShroom]

Nintendo has always been a monument to low input lag, so it's really saddening to see that even them are falling for what I can only refer to as the "input lag bloat" that's been increasing as console generations go by.

 

[Deleted member 18742]

What about wavebirds?

 

[Deleted member 3758]

I

 

[ZeroDotFlow]

Look, I'm pretty sensitive to input lag. I own a few ASUS monitors and only got a 4K TV with the least amount of it. I'm a competitive Marvel vs Capcom and DBFZ player, dabble in many others, I'm aware of other games.

Having 1 more frame on average than Melee isn't something to get so annoyed about. Especially when it's pretty clear that some people just aren't used to how Ultimate buffers certain actions differently that they think it's an input lag issue.

I'm not saying it isn't there, I'm saying that most people in here can't even tell between the two.



Yep. It absolutely needs to gets lowered but I think people are overblowing this issue when it's really them messing up due to the different buffering and mechanics.

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Yes, and? I'm also a competitive player.

First off your claim that it has '1 more frame on average' is, again, objectively wrong considering the analysis in the OP paints it at around two. If you're a competitive player then you should know damn well how big of a difference two frames can make. I advise you to reread the OP.

And obviously there's going to be people that will misattribute the problems Smash Ultimate has with its terrible command buffer and assume it's input lag. However the obvious takeaway should be that those two issues (combined with the poor network design) compound into making the game feeling incredibly sluggish for competitive players. To the point where you even have more casual players feeling like something is off with the game.

 

[FSLink]

First off your claim that it has '1 more frame on average' is, again, objectively wrong considering the analysis in the OP paints it at around two. If you're a competitive player then you should know damn well how big of a difference two frames can make. I advise you to reread the OP.

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Whoops, should have said Brawl instead of Melee. My bad.

I also already acknowledged that there is high input lag in this so I'm not sure why you're continually pointing that out, I just personally think that people were misattributing what they felt and that for most people the 1 frame won't make a difference at this point is all I'm saying especially when the game is so new/people are still getting used to how the game works.

 

[affeinvasion]

Yeah shielding and dodging feel noticeably late compared to brawl which was the last smash game I played significantly.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Joycons feel fine but pro controller feels bad to me. Sometimes it just lags out completely it presses the wrong button

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This happens to me with both the Joycons and the Wii U Pro controller through the 8bitdo adapter. It gets worse if there's something in between the controller and the console (including "myself", e.g. crossing my legs when I have the joycons at my sides), and it seems to get better when I turn off my computer which is next to it (I wonder if it's bluetooth interference, as I have a couple bluetooth receivers on my computer). When it happens it just stops working, then when it gets resolved, it plays the lost inputs as if in a queue.

 

[Ninjadom]

Did they try Pro Controller plugged in by USB and enable USB lead reading?

 

[Deleted member 733]

Weird, I wonder if it depends on resolution or display settings or autodetection at all. Playing with 1080p settings and an old gamecube adapter felt very responsive.

 

[Beatle]

This is great ammunition for those that want excuses

 

[Duderino]

It's making online play not as fun honestly. I still really love this game so far, but man is it a huge pain to deal with this input delay. Even worse 5o hear that this wouldn't be a simple fix either.

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Haven't played online yet myself, but I could see the compounded latency really making the game feel bad in that setting.

That is if Nintendo isn't intentionally adding input latency during offline play to make the two experiences feel closer. Kinda doubt that would be the case, but it wouldn't be the first time. Believe the Icons devs made a call like that. Come to think of it, I think this means both games have a similar amount of input lag.

 

[Jahranimo]

Did they try Pro Controller plugged in by USB and enable USB lead reading?

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This I want to know too. I bet it'll be a Splatoon 2 situation and create another millisecond of lag.

 

[RM8]

I noticed this right away. I think I'm getting used, though :x

 

[Gravidee]

I thought something was off the first time I played with a pro controller and then later a GC one. But after a few hours I quickly got used to it.

 

[jviggy43]

This is great ammunition for those that want excuses

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What is with posters continually downplaying performance issues with the idea that its an excuse for bad gameplay when the majority of complaints about this are coming from pro players, the best of the best. This shit happened in blackops threads as well. Its a stupid sentiment.

 

[Phendrana]

Hmm, It must be somewhat bad because I feeling like I actually notice it, and I almost never notice these things. Especially when using the right stick on my pro, it feels like the input either doesnt register sometimes or theres a notable lag. Really strange.

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Yep, I'm getting this a lot. I fire out a smash attack and my character is just standing there like an idiot. It's super frustrating, and not an issue I've had in any previous Smash game.

 

[Prevolition]

This is great ammunition for those that want excuses

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Or it's vindication for those of us who have been frustrated by how off the game feels. I also think there is something to be said about how we're going through two USB connections (albeit one is USB C) from GC controller to Switch console. That can't be helping things.

 

[Maple]

Yeah, this might explain why the controls feel so off to me.

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Yeah. I noticed it immediately and have kind of gotten used to it, but if I think it about it I notice it again. Between this and the online features...it's kind of disappointing.

Online can be fixed via updates. I'm wondering if the input lag can be fixed as well.

 

[MysticGon]

Shit, I thought 3DS felt snappier but didn't know it was true. Oh well, I'm used to it now. It was just weird because I was playing 3DS up until the second Ultimate launched.

 

[Toad King]

There was another topic when Hollow Knight released on Switch with people saying the lag was messing up the game. I measured the same 6 frames in Hollow Knight, and also Super Mario Odyssey. The third game I tested, Celeste, had 4 frames.

I've been playing for a couple days and I haven't noticed bad lag. I came from Smash 4 though and not Melee.

 

[TheClaw7667]

What is with posters continually downplaying performance issues with the idea that its an excuse for bad gameplay when the majority of complaints about this are coming from pro players, the best of the best. This shit happened in blackops threads as well. Its a stupid sentiment.

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I've noticed this happening in the Smash online criticism threads and the Nintendo Switch Online threads. It's a very strange way to react to valid complaints. The only thing that makes sense to me is people who love the game(s) so much that any and all criticisms need to be deflected.

 

[Viale]

With the right stick, you have to let it fully return to neutral before you can use it again. That's not input lag, just an odd design choice.

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Oh, I had no idea. Thanks for bringing this up. I'll make sure to watch for that. It was so infuriating trying to use it and watching my character stand there like an idiot.

 

[Toad King]

Or it's vindication for those of us who have been frustrated by how off the game feels. I also think there is something to be said about how we're going through two USB connections (albeit one is USB C) from GC controller to Switch console. That can't be helping things.

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I'm fairly certain the USB port is not adding any noticeable lag. In the worst case, it will add 8ms (the USB adapter polls at a standard 125Hz) + maybe an extra 3-4ms for processing on device firmware and the OS. And in best case that 8ms from the poll rate is 0ms. On average it will add maybe half a frame of lag, and never more than one frame.

 

[the_bromo_tachi]

In a different topic, there was a small discussion about the offline input lag. So I'm glad someone finally did a analysis on it. I'm used to it now but the first time, I felt something was off.

 

[Maximo]

It's true for most cases. Splatoon and Mario Kart 8 also have more input lag on Switch than Wii U. Most people don't care though.

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Least for Smash and most of my mates that played they definitely noted the input lag.

 

[jviggy43]

I've noticed this happening in the Smash online criticism threads and the Nintendo Switch Online threads. It's a very strange way to react to valid complaints. The only thing that makes sense to me is people who love the game(s) so much that any and all criticisms need to be deflected.

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Yeah its certainly a mechanism used to buffer criticism. Its just frustrating that they try to tell people experiencing this theyre just bad at the game and using it as an excuse. Even if thats the case both things can be true and doesn't change the underlying discussion or problem.

 

[Deleted member 6230]

Definitely noticed it as a melee player. Was bugging me that I couldn't dash dance and wavebounce

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

Yeah the game feels bad to play :(

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Yep.

 

[samred]

My beef with these lag figures is on the whole opposite end of the Smash Ultimate spectrum: the Spirit Board laser-gun mini-game. I cannot even with the timings on that.

 

[Laserbeam]

Hmm, I'm not really a Smash fanatic so I guess I don't notice the differences at all, because this game has been the best feeling one for me since Melee (which I hardly remember) by far.

I do notice what could be a little lag when jumping (noticeable especially in the bonus stage in classic mode) but I just excused that as Smash always having weird feeling jumping, at least to me anyway.

 

[DevilMayGuy]

Holy crap, no wonder the game feels like dogshit for me to play. I felt like shield dodging and aerial moves were harder to hit, though I suspect I'm noticing the new buffer more than the input lag.

A seriously depressing amount of "this game is a joy to play," "you guys sure love your excuses," "don't be mean to poor little Nintendo" type posts in here. Be better, and try to derive your self worth from something more internal to yourselves than the reputation of a megacorp's videogame.

 

[Deleted member 6230]

This with the new input buffet system and the way the smash stick works made the game feel really awkward for me at first. Still getting used to playing but I'm enjoying it overall. Hopefully these 3 things can be fixed in a patch but it's not the end of the world. Really sucks if you play online tho

 

[SkullHydra]

Okay, so it's not just me. Everything works well most of the time, but every so often the game feels really sluggish to the point of my attacks and such being noticeably behind me pressing the button. I figured my controllers were just going bad.

This is quite disappointing.

 

[Duderino]

Holy crap, no wonder the game feels like dogshit for me to play. I felt like shield dodging and aerial moves were harder to hit, though I suspect I'm noticing the new buffer more than the input lag.

A seriously depressing amount of "this game is a joy to play," "you guys sure love your excuses," "don't be mean to poor little Nintendo" type posts in here. Be better, and try to derive your self worth from something more internal to yourselves than the reputation of a megacorp's videogame.

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These kind of responses don't surprise me at all. It's not the first time fans have come to the defense of something objectively bad about a new Smash installment.

If someone is ok with the current level of latency good for them. Not everyone cares about 60 FPS either. But if you're the type of gamer that enjoys the extra responsiveness at higher frame rates, this is the wrong issue to write off. 100ms means Smash Ultimate plays more like a 30 FPS game, and not exactly the most optimal one either.

 

[Arkert]

Why 100ms means that Ultimate plays more like a 30FPS game. Shouldn't be 10 FPS?

 

[Deleted member 32135]

Leffen was looking into how the game handles buffering which is interesting
Interesting to note that C-stick does a direction+attack like a macro for arials which changes the momentum

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Ok, this looks like what I was experiencing and I thought it had relation to imput lag. I am not a melee player but I played a lot of Smash 4, and most of the time Ultimate feels as snappy as 4 to me. Those 0,03 seconds difference betwenn them can't be that noticeable. Buffer looks like the problem here and is really obvious when dodging from one side to the other numeorous times.

 

[NotLiquid]

The "sluggishness" that people are experiencing is way more likely to be due to the game's new buffering mechanics which are different from Smash 4.

 

[Madao]

well, at least this knd of input lag is something that everyone has in every version. the playing field remains even.

i did notice this a bit at first since i had played SSB4 several times recently. i guess this explains why sometimes there's inputs dropped.

 

[Trisc]

Interesting to note that C-stick does a direction+attack like a macro for arials which changes the momentum

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Thought it was odd that I picked up an item I was standing over when trying to do a smash attack. That'll hopefully be changed as soon as possible.

 

[carlosrox]

This was bothering me the first two days but I think I've already gotten used to it.

Can this/will this be fixed?

Why would they do this? I get the sense this game was sorta "dumbed down" a bit to be more accessible. But I mean, it's sort of a good thing. And this is coming from someone who still loves 4 to death and I already miss how that game played.

But I love Ultimate as well already. I love them both.