-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Six Days in Fallujah ‘not trying to make a political commentary,’ creator says
- Thread starter --R
- Start date
"The things that divide us," such as, war crimes and literal murder of civilians
I can't believe the creator literally denied the use of white phosphorus during Fallujah because some people from the US army told him. What complete horseshit. It is extremely upsetting to see this revisionist bullshit that literally whitewashes war crimes.
I can't believe the creator literally denied the use of white phosphorus during Fallujah because some people from the US army told him. What complete horseshit. It is extremely upsetting to see this revisionist bullshit that literally whitewashes war crimes.
To be fair they'd only ask that if it was to storm the capitol.
Why are you trying to be all philosophical about video games as a medium when the developers are clearly just glorying America's actions?
They dropped white phosporous and used uranium bullets which cause cancer today in that battle.
This is what the developers say:
"I have two concerns with including phosphorus as a weapon. Number one is that it's not a part of the stories that these guys told us, so I don't have an authentic, factual basis on which to tell that. That's most important. Number two is, I don't want sensational types of things to distract from the parts of that experience."
Six Days in Fallujah ‘not trying to make a political commentary,’ creator says
An interview with the publisher of the controversial Iraq War shooterwww.polygon.com
The same is true of the depleted uranium munitions used during the battle. The super-dense shells, commonly associated with the tank-busting A-10 Warthog, can fragment and shatter on impact, scattering their heavy metal payload all around. That could be why researchers show an increased incidence of cancers among the current population of Fallujah — especially in children. We asked Tamte what responsibility his team bears in communicating that outcome of the Second Battle of Fallujah to consumers.
"I don't think players are going to be confused about the cost [of war]," Tamte said. "I just don't think that they're going to walk away from this experience going, 'We need more war.' I don't think that's something that the Marines and soldiers want as a message. I don't think that's something that the Iraqi civilians want as a message. I think people do need to understand the human cost of war."
They're doing some point of view stuff from a family fleeing
Do you think they'll talk about how they dropped flyers stating:
With Airpower and Armor, Troops Enter Rebel-Held City (Published 2004)
American forces have sent thousands of troops into neighborhoods considered to be the center of the Iraqi insurgency.
But then:
U.S. Won't Let Men Flee Fallujah
Hundreds of men trying to flee the assault on Fallujah have been turned back by U.
www.foxnews.com
Unless you're super naive, there's no way you'd think they'd talk about any of this.
There's also another interview on DailyBits, with some more snippets - https://dailybits.news/victura-ceo-...ied-to-tackle-real-life-controversial-events/
+1
Like it would still be political but not "let's portray these people from this country as enemies" political.
From the way I understand it, they want to show the experience of soldiers and they won't comment about the war itself.
Basically, centrist bullshit.
You can't just make a game about american soldiers invading and killing brown people based on a real event while having people from the war telling you how they experienced the event, and not be political. That by itself is political.
You want to make a "non poltical" game about how soldiers feel, them make up a fictional setting.
And just showing how these guys experienced war is political by itself.
That house clearance and the risk to civilians isn't apolitical when the rules of engagement it's being done under, exactly what the criteria is for when a human is seen as a threat worth killing, is very clearly political. It might be apolitical to the soldier on the ground as they've been trained not to question it and prioritise their own safety and those of their colleagues first, in addition to getting stuff done. But those rules that inform every shot they do or don't take are very much political.
Last edited:
It's not about the goddamned invasion. It's not about the Iraq war as a whole. It's about a specific fucking event they're trying to retell.
Let's not make politics while locating our games in the middle of the destruction of a nation who started with Sumer around -3000BC to remove a despot who was our friend all the decade he spread military gas on iranian people, during the siege of a city were civilians get collectively punished multiple times by G.W. Bush and his allies. This meltdown even make his father appearing as a great strategist compared to how he managed the Koweit invasion and the end of the Cold War...
So no criticism about Black Hawk Down or old CoD games is allowed in your view?
Once again, they are portraying the soldiers that went through this fucking invasion.
Not sure why you can't understand that making you sympathize with american soldiers killing brown people in their own homeland by showing you how they felt and experienced said event is political.
No?
That still doesn't make them any less political and beyond criticism.
The interview did nothing to dissuade me that the developers are a bunch of cowards who couldn't give a shit about an accurate portrayal of events and just wanna make money off a well known event of a war that hasn't been done to death.
Not really.
And source is goddamn foxnews!But then:
"Hundreds of men trying to flee the assault on Fallujah have been turned back by U.S. troops following orders to allow only women, children and the elderly to leave."U.S. Won't Let Men Flee Fallujah
Hundreds of men trying to flee the assault on Fallujah have been turned back by U.
I'm interested in this but only in the sense that I wonder how much they might paper over the really ugly shit. I expect that the reaction to this, upon release and full examination, will be orders of magnitudes worse than 2019's Call of Duty Modern Warfare's "Highway of Death" retcon.
I don't get how this is hard to understand. I want to make a movie about a surgeon. The premise is a visiting politician is shot and sent to his hospital.
THAT DOES NOT MEAN MY FILM HAS TO MAKE A POLITICAL STATEMENT.
Everything surrounding and leading up to the war? Political.
The dudes actually in that war, and let me remind you a lot of these dudes at this point had joined up in peacetime, weren't making political decisions or statements. You can tell their story without it being about Bush et al
so why exclude all mentions of white phosphorus or used of other dubious combat tactics? why is the iraqi civilian part of the campaign only 10% of it while the usmc part is 90%?
When you deny the political nature of a game of this kind you're lowering the bar for a reason. They want to tell us that war is bad without telling us whose fault it is.
I mean Somalia was absolutely a disaster that anticipated the War on Terror so yeah its gross propaganda. But at least games depicting the Soviet Union have the Reich as the enemy and considering what the USSR faced in the German invasion it isn't comparable to Iraq.
A sympathetic depiction of the military is not apolitical.
You can't just look at this in a vacuum.
I'm sure it was tense for the people on the other end of that fight, but if I omitted all context beyond the Americans killing their friends, would you be able to accept it as an objective retelling on one guys experience for those particular hours?
You are an idiot.
Sorry but this is the only way I can respond to such dense line of thinking.
It does and there are certain things they could even do with a made-up setting that could still show their ass. I just think using a made-up setting can let that take a backseat to what it sounds like they want. There is no backseating the conflict they chose.
I absolutely loved that game, recommended to anyone on this thread who is disappointed and wants a self aware war game. Spec Ops certainly didn't shy away from showing that white phosphorus atrocity thing.
The notion that you think you can cherrypick a battle from a war and pretend like it's devoid of any political ideology because it's somehow in isolation is baffling.
Lol, who's the war crime apologist? "Yes German women and children deserved to be raped and murdered because the German army was shitty to Russians."
And that means they were fair game if they couldn't? If you've got kids and no car, in a city surrounded by various heavily armed factions, saying 'run for the hills' doesn't absolve soldiers from the charge of enacting the consequences of politics.
a politician being shot is not political?
In this made up universe, are bullets raining from the sky for no reason or something?
This is the stupidest thing I've read this month, congratulation.
So the white phosphorous being removed from the story means what?
ok, if it is inherently political, won't that come out in the product? What are you complaining about
Why are you trying to be all philosophical about video games as a medium when the developers are clearly just glorying America's actions?
They dropped white phosporous and used uranium bullets which cause cancer today in that battle.
This is what the developers say:
They're doing some point of view stuff from a family fleeing
Do you think they'll talk about how they dropped flyers stating:
" Three days before the Invasion, over 1,000,000 flyers were dropped from the sky over the city, stating any military age male over the age of 12 will be considered hostile and shot on sight.With Airpower and Armor, Troops Enter Rebel-Held City (Published 2004)
American forces have sent thousands of troops into neighborhoods considered to be the center of the Iraqi insurgency.www.nytimes.com
But then:
"Hundreds of men trying to flee the assault on Fallujah have been turned back by U.S. troops following orders to allow only women, children and the elderly to leave."U.S. Won't Let Men Flee Fallujah
Hundreds of men trying to flee the assault on Fallujah have been turned back by U.
Unless you're super naive, there's no way you'd think they'd talk about any of this.
Because I believe video game violence is hypocritical, and we're selective of our choices on how to moralize to ourselves when modern combat is depicted - but also that video games can be used as an effective tool and medium to discuss complex political concepts. I dunno - I also don't feel like reading a bunch of throw away lines that make this place feel like a collective?
I'm also hugely anti-war, and protested this battle and war when it happened. But I think trying to bury the events of Iraq (and I agree - it need context just like you highlight) has caused the narrative to become a bit stunted. The hand wave dismissive behavior doesn't articulate the actual problem (which we agree upon) which is there were war crimes, and victims, and a narrative to be discussed about this war so we don't repeat it. But that's also really hard to have when video games are recreating wars, and basically don't face the inherit political and violent nature of them because the war they depict was "morally right" (e.g. WWII). It's all political, and don't know where the line is drawn or who "owns" the narration.
Guess I am hopefully that others take on the Iraq war, and help us mature our understanding of modern conflicts in additional to historical combat events from 100 years ago.
This reminds me of Dan Ryckert saying he didn't think Metal Gear was political because it wasn't about elections or something.
I mean I am not going to condone Soviet war crimes at the end of WW2 but depicting the Battle of Stalingrad which is a unambiguous fight against fascism isnt the same as depicting Iraq dude. But this is veering close to far-right talking points that try to relativize the victims of fascism and the Nazi army. The Soviets experienced a far worse outcome under the German invasion than the Germans did in the Soviet invasion.
that is fucked up, I'll admit.
But I feel like everyone in this thread is ignoring the fact that it's also going to show an Iraqi father fleeing with his kids
lmao
U.S. Won't Let Men Flee Fallujah
Hundreds of men trying to flee the assault on Fallujah have been turned back by U.
www.foxnews.com
