Anyone who remotely cares knows this game will be hot trash so the only audience left are all the keep politics out of my war games dullards and the people who want to see the disaster.
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Six Days in Fallujah ‘not trying to make a political commentary,’ creator says
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Anyone who remotely cares knows this game will be hot trash so the only audience left are all the keep politics out of my war games dullards and the people who want to see the disaster.
It is weird because they could have made a legitimately good game if they went the Spec Ops The Line way but these guys literally are doing a propaganda piece.
I give COD a lot of shit but even they usually try to make up fictional conflicts based on wars that happened to push their pro war propaganda. But these guys are literally doing a propaganda piece and not even attempting to hide it. It is even worse because they are selling the idea that this is the way it happened.
the neocons and islamophobes (basically the same thing but i digress) are gonna love this bullshit
While clearly politics will be present in this game, I am still curious about how it executes their desired parallel storylines. Cutting out white phosphorous because your sources don't discuss it is dubious - like just check other sources.
But everything is political. I will have to see the final product before determining whether this is just ignoring war crimes, or includes the bad shit but doesnt call it a war crime (which could make sense given the perspectives of a single soldier and iraqi citizen caught in the moment).
Before I get jumped on, obviously fuck the Iraq War; making a video game set in it has always resulted in jingoism which facilitated tacti-cool culture, American exceptionalism, and neo-colonialism.
But you can tell stories set in that time. Will this be done well? Probably not. But others have told critical stories set in complicated times. Im thinking of This War of Mine as an example. It doesn't include all the war crimes, nor call them that during the game (if I remember correctly), but it tells a poignant story set in the civilians perspective of the Bosnian war.
Might as well hear em out, see if they landed it. Then if they didn't, criticize the hell out of them.
But everything is political. I will have to see the final product before determining whether this is just ignoring war crimes, or includes the bad shit but doesnt call it a war crime (which could make sense given the perspectives of a single soldier and iraqi citizen caught in the moment).
Before I get jumped on, obviously fuck the Iraq War; making a video game set in it has always resulted in jingoism which facilitated tacti-cool culture, American exceptionalism, and neo-colonialism.
But you can tell stories set in that time. Will this be done well? Probably not. But others have told critical stories set in complicated times. Im thinking of This War of Mine as an example. It doesn't include all the war crimes, nor call them that during the game (if I remember correctly), but it tells a poignant story set in the civilians perspective of the Bosnian war.
Might as well hear em out, see if they landed it. Then if they didn't, criticize the hell out of them.
Any outlet that decides to review this game positively is just hot garbage. Game should be banned here as mentioned earlier in the thread.
Sadly, when you look at the individuals making this, you understand why.
but guys, wait the embargo to lift! i promise it's not american imperialist propaganda!!!!
What insight will a retelling that doesn't touch American war crimes deliver?
This is absolutely bonkers to me. The very fact that they are making a game like this is political in and of itself, whether or not they believe so.
You can't tell a story about real events without them political in some way. Especially when telling the story of a literal invasion.
Like how can you say this with a straight face when you made the decision to alter the real events because they would be "too sensational". That right there is the textbook definition of a political statement.
Like how can you say this with a straight face when you made the decision to alter the real events because they would be "too sensational". That right there is the textbook definition of a political statement.
This ain't it, they are omitting shit that doesn't fit their message and labeling any commentary as "distraction". They aren't acting in good faith and we seen this song and dance before
You misread my post - what I am suggesting, is the exploitation of historical events and violence is at the forefront of videos since their inception to depict combat. Iraq is still a mess, and gained nothing from America's intervention. That's actually true for nearly all war, and yet we still depict battles representing them through videos games.
WWI and WWII, etc, are "good wars" and the Iraq War(s) "bad wars". They are all bad wars - from instigation to mental health to innocent loss of life - with more victims at the other end than there were going into it with very few "winners".
When is it OK to represent things? If a Russian game company made a game depicting the death of Americans in Syria or Iraqi's depicting death of Americans in the same conflicts - I think It'd take issue with it, but certainly it's not off-limits is it?
They need to prove themselves before we give them anything. Coming and saying this shit is fucked. This was a political act by the US committing war crimes, to which the people of are still recovering from. The children born from the effects of chemical warfare the US used will feel it for the rest of their lives.
This guy can eat shit if he's going to play PR over something like this. Fuck this game and the CIA op it rode in on.
Isn't the whole point of the game (or at least from what I remember of it years ago) supposed to be a gritty look at urban warfare?
The only way to make it political would be with some hamfisted dialogue among Marines about "them boys in Washington," which I can all but guarantee would not have been happening.
The only way to make it political would be with some hamfisted dialogue among Marines about "them boys in Washington," which I can all but guarantee would not have been happening.
Idk there's a pretty big power dynamic difference with Americans doing propaganda about our own imperial conflict and the idea that the victims of said conflict would make media about it. If Iraqi's wanted to make a game where US troops are the enemy I would have no issue with that. It could have other problems sure but that would be fine.
yep, not just for the tonedeaf bullshit in their games but also the widespread workplace harassment
The difference is that This War of Mine entirely focuses on the civilians trying to survive urban warfare, whereas everything we've seen of this so far is rooted in displaying how badass the combatants are. Sure, there's going to be a parallel tale of civilians. But when a good portion of the people whose perspective this game is based on and cares about is soldiers, the genre, framing and camerawork it is selling is that of the first-person-shooter, and the audience of gamers through CoD etc is conditioned to see such gunmen as the protagonists, it's nowhere near the same. That framing of the choice of genre colours this.
It's obvious the civilians are a secondary consideration to empathising with US troops, as all the promotional stuff leads with them (see quotes below), not to mention who the creators had access to and who it's aimed at. If a customer really wanted to find out more about what happened in Fallujah, a shitload of journalism from people who were there already exists that isn't having you run around with a gun, in the framing of a FPS game, while those stories are being told. I don't buy the argument that the only way this story was getting out there was through a shoot 'em up computer game 15 years later, that smacks of justifying it after the fact.
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In that sense literally everything is political. I can make a porno set in the White House and not have it be political.
I mean, they're telling you pretty directly to stop giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Isn't their mere presence in Falluja, and Iraq, the actual war crime? That said, I agree they should depict the context of the political setting and show the conditions on the ground and the WHY of it all they are doing a disservice to the content and approach (and lessening the game and what it could convey).
I don't want to keep going around - but I do find the Iraq War (II) to be deeply under represented in the media - I lived through it and even now it's supper hard to make out the lines of what actually happened in a contextual and meaningful way in the way so many other American wars were committed to (I'd say the same about Afghan but less so - there's some good things out there which is finally starting to make it out there).
I think video games have a chance to help bridge this level of understanding - but I also find it hypocritical of the industry and gaming consumers to have these arbitrary standards when so much violent - in general - are often represented without broader context as well.
This isn't a blanket objection to the depiction of the war in entertainment media, its a specific objection to the game as being presented to us by the creator.
The only reason we got Spec Ops: The Line is because it wasn't made in America. This game never stood a chance.
what makes you say it doesn't? It literally says they're going to show the on-the-ground result of politics, but the intent isn't to make a statement about it. Maybe they will actually depict war crimes in this. We don't know but there's a lot of jumping to conclusions in this thread.
I was already not planning on touching this game but this just solidifies my decision.
I wish them luck, is all I can say.
I wish them luck, is all I can say.
Most of the time I don't give a shit whether people think games are political or not. But this one, this is fucking hilarious. This game is off to an insanely bad start again.
"The only thing that I fear is that fundamentally, when we cut through everything, people's objection here to Six Days in Fallujah is more of an objection to the Iraq War," Tamte said.
he's on to something here with the nuance behind the soundbite, but using the war as set dressing must be done carefully
he's on to something here with the nuance behind the soundbite, but using the war as set dressing must be done carefully
No one saying you can't depict the Iraq war, they saying if you going to tell the story, tell it objectively. Them omitting stuff like the white phosphorous telling. Don't just do the "America Fuck Yeah" stuff.
True.
A porno in the white house isn't the same as a game like this which is attempting to show how this conflict was.
What the fuck does this mean? Does this dude have any self awareness?
That would still involve political commentary, just not pertaining to real world politics. Everything from the choice of story they told, who they made the protagonists vs antagonists, who they aligned the player and their companies with and what types of missions they had you doing. All of that speaks to a particular viewpoint and if it's dealing with international relationships then it's political
Not sure what you're taking issue with if you agree that what they aim to depict is substandard. When someone tells you they're out to lionize coalition forces, the reaction should be dismissive.
Yeah, and a gunfight is apolitical. Everything leading up to it? Absolutely. But once that Marine was told to enter that city and start going door-to-door, clearing an entire city, they aren't thinking about that. They're wondering what is around this next corner? Is there a boobytrap at this next house? Where are the snipers? Is that an IED? My buddy just died but I've got 12+ more hours of clearing houses.
Again, from my understanding, that is their entire intent of this game. Show the hell on the ground that these dudes went to.
These people are literally trying to shit in our mouths and tell us it's chocolate.
A game whose name literally evoke war crime is trying to whitewash war crimes.
You have to be dumber than bricks to fall for that.
So I expect Gamers™ to absolutely love this game.
A game whose name literally evoke war crime is trying to whitewash war crimes.
You have to be dumber than bricks to fall for that.
So I expect Gamers™ to absolutely love this game.
