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Sinema agrees to Reconciliation bill. Likely to pass this Saturday.(Up: passed)

Schwinner

Schwinner

Member
Oct 28, 2017
512
El Bombastico said:
And that mentality cost Sanders the nom twice in a row.
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Yeah that and party leaders not wanting him as their nominee. This is America so I am not surprised
Matt said:
I understand you are new to thinking about politics, but at this point a lot of your opinions seem based on random thoughts, supposition, and emotions, rather than much evidence or logical consideration.
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Most of my opinions on the matter of doing is what I feel is right for everyone. So yeah definitely mostly emotional. I am a leftist and do not debate or go deeper into political thought at all. There are other people who do this for a living that can go into that. Man I am terrible with words I dislike this. Dems obviously cut a deal with him that was in his favor to do so, that would be the pressure. Tbh I can't really explain that. I feel like I make something clear then I just make it confusing cause I fully don't understand it all. Sorry I think I will stop talking now cause I obviously will never agree with y'all in here. I am far left on the political spectrum with my opinions in general and obviously we will just keep disagreeing with each other.

Y'all have a good one. Sorry for butting into the convo
 
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Aaronrules380

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,427
El Bombastico said:
They clearly think he does if they keep re-electing him.



And that mentality cost Sanders the nom twice in a row.
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I feel like most people saying "optics don't matter" actually care about optics a lot. It's just the optics they care about are ones that make it look like politicians are doing something even if what they're doing is completely pointless and performative that never has any chance to lead to anything meaningful. Like they're the people who were going hardest on Trump impeachment, something which was never going to be about anything more than optics because the Republicans were never going to turn against him and he was always going to remain in office. And then impeachment happened and it turned out that like anyone with half a brain could've figured out, it was a completely performative stunt that led to no real accountability or consequences for Trump. They confuse making noise and kicking up a fuss as being meaningful action, even when that's literally just optics
 
Pasha

Pasha

Banned
Jan 27, 2018
3,018
Super Cuss Worlds said:
wait, so did sanders tank the bill or something?
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No, he just said something that is true, which is that this bill will do jack shit about inflation.

Kinda funny how Machin and Sinema can pretty much tank the entire Dem agenda from day one for 2 fucking years straight, and while doing Fox news tours spouting every bullshit GQP talking point imaginable, yet Sanders is the problem.

Some people around here are just still holding a grudge from 2016, because their queen bee lost to orange turd.
 
Chaos Legion

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,900
Pasha said:
No, he just said something that is true, which is that this bill will do jack shit about inflation.

Kinda funny how Machin and Sinema can pretty much tank the entire Dem agenda from day one for 2 fucking years straight, and while doing Fox news tours spouting every bullshit GQP talking point imaginable, yet Sanders is the problem.

Some people around here are just still holding a grudge from 2016, because their queen bee lost to orange turd.
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Yet Manchin and Sinema rightfully get dragged for doing so, and Sinema likely won't win a primary in 2024 because of her actions...?
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
Pasha said:
No, he just said something that is true, which is that this bill will do jack shit about inflation.

Kinda funny how Machin and Sinema can pretty much tank the entire Dem agenda from day one for 2 fucking years straight, and while doing Fox news tours spouting every bullshit GQP talking point imaginable, yet Sanders is the problem.

Some people around here are just still holding a grudge from 2016, because their queen bee lost to orange turd.
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People constantly shit on Sinema and Manchin, for good reasons. It's really bizarre that anyone would still have such intense blinders on around saint Bernie that they couldn't see how this is the stupidest moment possible to be handing out Republican talking points.

This has nothing to do with grudges and everything to do with Sanders's consistently awful political instincts. He's simply a bitter flop whose temper tantrum on the Senate floor does nothing good for anyone except maybe Republicans in November.
 
julian

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,747
El Bombastico said:
They clearly think he does if they keep re-electing him.



And that mentality cost Sanders the nom twice in a row.
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And yet Sanders also keeps getting re-elected and is certainly more beloved nationally than Manchin. Weird how people keep saying "Manchin is working for his constituents" but somehow this logic doesn't ever apply to the longest serving Independent in history.
Aaronrules380 said:
I feel like most people saying "optics don't matter" actually care about optics a lot. It's just the optics they care about are ones that make it look like politicians are doing something even if what they're doing is completely pointless and performative that never has any chance to lead to anything meaningful. Like they're the people who were going hardest on Trump impeachment, something which was never going to be about anything more than optics because the Republicans were never going to turn against him and he was always going to remain in office. And then impeachment happened and it turned out that like anyone with half a brain could've figured out, it was a completely performative stunt that led to no real accountability or consequences for Trump. They confuse making noise and kicking up a fuss as being meaningful action, even when that's literally just optics
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The impeachment that exposed Trump pressuring Ukraine which immediately led to the release of support for Ukraine well before Russia invaded and very likely gave them their fighting chance? That impeachment? Not everything is about one thing.
 
Pasha

Pasha

Banned
Jan 27, 2018
3,018
Mercury Fred said:
People constantly shit on Sinema and Manchin, for good reasons. It's really bizarre that anyone would still have such intense blinders on around saint Bernie that they couldn't see how this is the stupidest moment possible to be handing out Republican talking points.

This has nothing to do with grudges and everything to do with Sanders's consistently awful political instincts. He's simply a bitter flop whose temper tantrum on the Senate floor does nothing good for anyone except maybe Republicans in November.
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Why would any right wing org use Sanders CSPAN rant that like 12 people saw in their ads when they have 2 years worth of 4K footage of Machin and Sinema shitting down Bidens throat on Fox News?
 
Uncle at Nintendo

Uncle at Nintendo

▲ Legend ▲
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Jan 3, 2018
8,578
Bernard thinks that old people should be able to go to the dentist even if they are poor and you know what… I agree with him.
 
Planx

Planx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,715
Manchin and Sinema hold up the Democratic agenda for years until it's watered down and has more corporate handouts:

Bernie says a bill could be better and doesn't do what it says on the tin: He hates the party, progressivism, and is personally delivering Republicans 2022 and 2024 on a platter
 
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less

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,835
Planx said:
Manchin and Sinema hold up the Democratic agenda for years until it's watered down and has more corporate handouts:

Bernie says a bill could be better and doesn't do what it says on the tin: He hates the party, progressivism, and is personally delivering Republicans 2022 and 2024 on a platter
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Most people shit on Manchin and Sinema when they do their fucking shit. We can also equally shit on Bernie for his shitty behavior that just gives Republicans ammo.
 
Three Seagrass

Three Seagrass

Banned
Dec 19, 2021
1,695
Planx said:
Manchin and Sinema hold up the Democratic agenda for years until it's watered down and has more corporate handouts:

Bernie says a bill could be better and doesn't do what it says on the tin: He hates the party, progressivism, and is personally delivering Republicans 2022 and 2024 on a platter
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Listen to this podcast episode, and you'll realize how awesome this bill is and all the things it's going to do. And that's just the climate portion!
 

Deleted member 3896

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Oct 25, 2017
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People intentionally missing the point, of course.

It's not about policy positions. It's about making the good the enemy of the perfect yet again. No wonder his attempts at running for president were such disaster, just shit tier political instincts.
 
Planx

Planx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,715
less said:
Most people shit on Manchin and Sinema when they do their fucking shit. We can also equally shit on Bernie or his shitty piece that just gives Republicans ammo.
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It's not 'Just giving Republicans ammo', he's trying to make amendments that will make the bill better. He's playing the same bill-writing politics Manchin and Sinema did but he's trying to make the bill better for regular people instead of asking for taxes on the wealthy to be removed, or fossil fuel subsidies to be added, or any other provision that's in there to secure a vote rather than help people

And if right before the bill passes isn't the last chance to bring up amendments to make it better, when is? Why is it bad to strive for the best, most helpful version of a bill possible?

Three Seagrass said:
Listen to this podcast episode, and you'll realize how awesome this bill is and all the things it's going to do. And that's just the climate portion!
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I don't disagree it's overall a good bill, I heavily disagree it's the best it could be, and that trying to make it better right before it passes isn't the right thing to do
 
Three Seagrass

Three Seagrass

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Dec 19, 2021
1,695
Planx said:
It's not 'Just giving Republicans ammo', he's trying to make amendments that will make the bill better.
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Whether or not he's making the bill "better," his amendments, if they were adopted, would sink the bill. It's counterproductive. He knows that. But he's doing it so he can show everyone how "pure" he is, how "corrupt" everyone else is, and so he can rant about the injustice of it all.

He's just wasting time.
 
Tamanon

Tamanon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,720
Bernie isn't trying to do shit to make the bill better, lol. This just his normal way. Loudly proclaim that both sides are at fault for things not being better, and he alone has the path forward, then quietly voting with the Dems again.
 
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less

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,835
Planx said:
It's not 'Just giving Republicans ammo', he's trying to make amendments that will make the bill better. He's playing the same bill-writing politics Manchin and Sinema did but he's trying to make the bill better for regular people instead of asking for taxes on the wealthy to be removed, or fossil fuel subsidies to be added, or any other provision that's in there to secure a vote rather than help people

And if right before the bill passes isn't the last chance to bring up amendments to make it better, when is? Why is it bad to strive for the best, most helpful version of a bill possible?
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No. He is not trying to make the bill better because he KNOWS that it is not going to be made any better than what the deal that everyone agreed upon. After months and months of negotiation we arrived at a bill that is walking a tight rope to secure everyone's vote. Any extra amendment could cause the bill to collapse (whether it be Manchin or Sinema that get turned off the bill). If his amendments were going to be accepted then they would have been in the bill already as they would be negotiated. What he wants isn't stuff that no one thought of including in the bill. They were all rejected during negotiations.

Bernie just wants to grandstand while every other Dem is trying their best to protect this bill and ensure that nothing upsets its delicate balance.
 
Planx

Planx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,715
Three Seagrass said:
Whether or not he's making the bill "better," his amendments, if they were adopted, would sink the bill. It's counterproductive. He knows that. But he's doing it so he can show everyone how "pure" he is, how "corrupt" everyone else is, and so he can rant about the injustice of it all.

He's just wasting time.
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So now we know which Senators to target for primary actions to try and get a more unified and progressive Senate? Oh no, the horror. He's almost as bad as the entire Democratic party regularly holding votes on bills that have no shot at getting 60 votes just so we can get Republicans on the record as being against good things to make it easier to run against them
 
Orion117

Orion117

Prophet of Regret - A King's Landing
Member
Dec 8, 2018
3,917
Planx said:
So now we know which Senators to target for primary actions to try and get a more unified and progressive Senate? Oh no, the horror. He's almost as bad as the entire Democratic party regularly holding votes on bills that have no shot at getting 60 votes just so we can get Republicans on the record as being against good things to make it easier to run against them
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His amendment lost 99-1. No one learned anything new from it.
 
Three Seagrass

Three Seagrass

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Dec 19, 2021
1,695
Planx said:
So now we know which Senators to target for primary actions to try and get a more unified and progressive Senate? Oh no, the horror. He's almost as bad as the entire Democratic party regularly holding votes on bills that have no shot at getting 60 votes just so we can get Republicans on the record as being against good things to make it easier to run against them
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dont-trust-the-b-in-apartment23-krysten-ritter.gif
 

Deleted member 83599

Banned
Oct 22, 2020
6,280
Planx said:
So now we know which Senators to target for primary actions to try and get a more unified and progressive Senate? Oh no, the horror. He's almost as bad as the entire Democratic party regularly holding votes on bills that have no shot at getting 60 votes just so we can get Republicans on the record as being against good things to make it easier to run against them
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Yeah let's primary those corporate whores like Sherrod Brown, Tammy Baldwin, and Brian Schatz.
 

Typhonsentra

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,947
Wild to me seeing so-called progressives on here call efforts to include the main measure needed to alleviate childhood poverty in the US "Grandstanding". Manchin and Sinema need to be shamed every step of the way for removing this, even with any polling on inflation concerns the child tax credit has always been broadly popular across party lines.
 

Deleted member 3896

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Typhonsentra said:
Wild to me seeing so-called progressives on here call efforts to include the main measure needed to alleviate childhood poverty in the US "Grandstanding". Manchin and Sinema need to be shamed every step of the way for removing this, even with any polling on inflation concerns the child tax credit has always been broadly popular across party lines.
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These aren't sincere efforts.
 
Richiek

Richiek

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Nov 2, 2017
12,063
Sanders' actions were just performative BS that have no chance improving the bill and in fact are giving the GOP talking points against it.
 
Tamanon

Tamanon

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Oct 25, 2017
19,720
Think of it like this. You finally convince everyone to get in the car to get dinner. You know you can't afford the best food in town, but you go to a nice restaurant that all begrudgingly agreed to. When you're pulling in the parking lot, one person in the car just begins loudly wanting to go to Ruth's Chris instead. You know he'll go in the restaurant anyways, and will be perfectly happy to tell folks in his state how good the food was he chose, but for now you just gotta listen to him whine.
 
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less

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,835
Typhonsentra said:
Wild to me seeing so-called progressives on here call efforts to include the main measure needed to alleviate childhood poverty in the US "Grandstanding". Manchin and Sinema need to be shamed every step of the way for removing this, even with any polling on inflation concerns the child tax credit has always been broadly popular across party lines.
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This is not an effort to include a measure to alleviate childhood poverty because Bernie knows it isn't happening. Even in his wildest dreams it still stands no chance of passing. This is just a chance for Bernie to grandstanding. You want to shame Manchin and Sinema? Okay. Go ahead but this vote isn't the place to do it. Not when your efforts are getting blown the fuck out 99 to 1. It is not Bernie vs not Sinema or Manchin here...it is Bernie vs every other Dem that wants to ensure that we have a bill that can actually do something good.
 
Addie

Addie

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 25, 2017
8,684
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Tamanon said:
Think of it like this. You finally convince everyone to get in the car to get dinner. You know you can't afford the best food in town, but you go to a nice restaurant that all begrudgingly agreed to. When you're pulling in the parking lot, one person in the car just begins loudly wanting to go to Ruth's Chris instead. You know he'll go in the restaurant anyways, and will be perfectly happy to tell folks in his state how good the food was he chose, but for now you just gotta listen to him whine.
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This, except it's 3am and everyone's tired as hell and really hungry.

Pass the bill quickly. And Bernie can sit down and revel in accomplishing nothing more than energizing Twitter. We're one Senator away from a positive COVID test to postpone things, which could possibly derail the entire effort.

Get it done, and move on to the next thing. I'm so fucking tired of the grandstanding.
 
Royalan

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,927
People drag Manchin and Cinema on this site daily. Daily.

If you have to resort to the extreme level of dishonesty that those two assholes are somehow protected on this board in order to shield Bernard from any sort of criticism, just save the word count and cut the crap because you're fooling nobody.

What Bern did last night was dumb, completely ego driven, and helped nothing
 
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