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Septimus Prime

EA
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
8,500
www.wired.com

Silicon Valley Ruined Work Culture

Why does every damn place—even old-school corporate offices—have to be fun and full of foosball?

Mike Robbins, an executive coach who has worked with companies like Google, Microsoft, Wells Fargo, and the NBA, says everyone wants to copy what's happening in Silicon Valley. "There's a lot of interest when I'm [consulting] with companies that are more traditional," says Robbins. "They're asking, 'What's Google doing? What's happening in Silicon Valley?' They see all the success."

Everything from casual dress codes to free office meals and the rise of remote work has been driven by Silicon Valley. But Silicon Valley's biggest export, Robbins says, is the collapsing barrier between work and life. His latest book, Bring Your Whole Self to Work, advocates for workplaces where people feel safe to take risks and practice vulnerability with their coworkers. (Kombucha on tap is not required.) But there's a dark side. As the boundaries between work and life become more porous, everyone works all the time.

The modern tech company is obsessed with growth and profit, at the expense of its employees and to the benefit of its investors. Some lucky employees might have stock options, but most don't, and even then it's a small percentage of the money flowing back to investors. The perks, then, function like trick mirrors, "a way to distract employees and keep them from noticing that their pockets are being picked." David Heinemeier Hanson, father of the programming language Ruby on Rails, has called this "trickle-down workaholism" the result of "trying to compress a lifetime's worth of work into the abbreviated timeline of a venture fund."

Worst of all, the tech world has managed to recast this workaholism for someone else's profit as something desirable: "hustle culture." It's replaced the 9-to-5 with "the 996"—that is, 9 am to 9 pm, six days a week. Take it from Elon Musk: Nobody ever changed the world on 40 hours a week.
Of course, it's not like work culture was perfect half a century ago. As Ron Friedman writes in his 2014 book The Best Place to Work: The Art and Science of Creating an Extraordinary Workplace, there are trade-offs to everything: "Cubicles are depressing. Private offices are isolating. Open spaces are distracting." But maybe it's time to reimagine a world where the office was just the office—a place you could actually get work done, and then eventually leave.
So, I work in a company that kind of occupied this weird space between tech and not tech in Silicon Valley, and we have a lot of the perks and benefits you'd expect to see but also keep some more traditional office policies, like limited PTO.

It's interesting to look at companies like Google and Facebook and be envious of their perks, but, man, I do enjoy not having to feel like I need to be in the office all the time.
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,708
The rebranding of workaholism to "hustle culture," and of contracting jobs without benefits or security to "side hustles," is the most insidious language trick this side of claiming that software developers wanting unions is cultural appropriation from poor people. Which, yes, is something corporations have tried to tell their employees.

I want to be in the room where people come up with these things. Like "climate realism." I want to be in that room, with the most evil people in the world, deciding how they will twist language to suit their ends.
 

Emergency & I

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,634
If the company you works for sucks it sucks. The Silicon Valley can fuck itself into Oblivion but do not pass the buck of incompetence.
 

Deleted member 23850

Oct 28, 2017
8,689
Shame that Silicon Valley has fucked up so badly. It really was (still is) a place for great innovation.
 
Oct 31, 2017
9,627
If there's one thing my college degree taught me, it's that I absolutely, 100% do not want to work in any tech/video game/Silicon Valley-esque industry. It's sad that this lifestyle/culture is bleeding into everything, but I can't say it's too terribly surprising. It's just a further reflection of the consolidation/homogenization that modern technology emphasizes and encourages.

It is Technopoly in action.
 

Steven

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,175
Depends on the company. There are good tech companies out here in the bay area with great work cultures. Gotta look hard.

Just like everything else, 98% of the companies suck. But damn near 98% of pretty much everything sucks, Silicon Valley isn't shielded from that rule.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,729
Ehhhhh, work/life balance going out of whack has been happening for a decade or more. Not just related to silicon valley. The proliferation of smart phones really drove it.
 

Fanuilos

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,137
It is obnoxious how much effort my management team spending trying to build a "work family" than actually addressing issues/communicating with our client. Suppose it is easier to schedule pizza parties though.
 

Qikz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,491
Ehhhhh, work/life balance going out of whack has been happening for a decade or more. Not just related to silicon valley. The proliferation of smart phones really drove it.

Not Smart Phones, just mobile phones in general. I remember in the 90s when my dad got given a company phone he was suddenly expected to be working at home out of his normal hours. He would get home then be forced into a conference call. It's dumb as hell.
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,229
I don't understand why people need table tennis and beer in the office. I've visited a bunch of different clients - mostly in the US - and every one of them has had a table tennis or table football table that's never been used, and a load of bean bag chairs nobody's ever sat in.

Perhaps it's because I've worked from home for so long - about a decade - but the last thing I'd want is more home comforts in a communal office. I'd rather just go home if I want to play table tennis, or do a quiz, or drink beer.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,444
I don't understand why people need table tennis and beer in the office. I've visited a bunch of different clients - mostly in the US - and every one of them has had a table tennis or table football table that's never been used, and a load of bean bag chairs nobody's ever sat in.

Perhaps it's because I've worked from home for so long - about a decade - but the last thing I'd want is more home comforts in a communal office. I'd rather just go home if I want to play table tennis, or do a quiz, or drink beer.

Absolutely but if you start doing these activities at work then work becomes home.
 

Maximo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,178
Ehhhhh, work/life balance going out of whack has been happening for a decade or more. Not just related to silicon valley. The proliferation of smart phones really drove it.

Even at my last dead end job they always tried to call out side of work hours expecting me to be on call and always by my phone, flat out told them I have a work phone and a normal phone and as soon as my shift is over my work phone is left alone.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,902
Scotland
I don't understand why people need table tennis and beer in the office. I've visited a bunch of different clients - mostly in the US - and every one of them has had a table tennis or table football table that's never been used, and a load of bean bag chairs nobody's ever sat in.

Perhaps it's because I've worked from home for so long - about a decade - but the last thing I'd want is more home comforts in a communal office. I'd rather just go home if I want to play table tennis, or do a quiz, or drink beer.

It is definitely a ploy to get people into the office and for a young graduate employee its enticing especially if you are aware of what a typical office environment is. Table Tennis, free food/drinks, arcades, pool tables...at the office??? Where do I sign up? You temporarily forget that the point of you being in the office...is to actually WORK. And once you realise that, then you immediately stop caring about all these perks that merely serve to keep you available in the office. How many rounds of table tennis and Pac-Man are you expected to have before you have to either get back to your work assignment, get dragged away by manager/emergency or possibly get fired because you were playing too much table tennis or Pac-Man on company time and missing deadlines?
 

Excuse me

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,020
Keeping work and private life separate is the one rule I'll never break. 8 hours a day and I'm gone.
I try this myself, but can't help myself from looking at work phone when new email pops up. These days I have set "sleep mode" so notifications don't appear on phone screen during certain hours. But every now and then I go the extra length and end up checking my mail.

Admittedly, nobody expects me to answer them off hours, so there is no pressure for me to do it.
 

ruggiex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,085
One other aspect, which is related to the hustle culture, I think is really screwing up work culture is the highly optimized metrics for performer evaluation. Sure it can be effective for the company's bottom line but it leads to similar things like Amazon warehouse worker afraid of taking breaks.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,902
Scotland
One good thing though, I love acceptable smart (or weather acceptable) casual wear in the office. I'm glad that's changed and employers aren't uptight about what people wear. I get if a sales person who meets clients have to dress smartly and be presentable but devs??? Fuck that. So glad I don't have to wear trousers and shirts every day. I only wear them occasionally now because they are gathering dust in the cupboard. Otherwise its hoodie, t-shirt and jeans all day every day.
 

tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,409
It's interesting to look at companies like Google and Facebook and be envious of their perks, but, man, I do enjoy not having to feel like I need to be in the office all the time.

If you are satisfied making "only" 250K / year at these companies as a senior developer, you really don't need to work more than 40 hours a week. There isn't really much pressure from management about hours.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
I got lucky. Got a job in an ad/adserving agency in the city, all the perks of a tech company (causal dress code, unlimited DTO, happy hours, free food and partner-sponsored events) but also a very inclusive environment and managers who care about work-life balance. My team's managers are always telling us that we should put life/health/etc over work, encouraging us to take personal days. It's the kind of place that encourages people to head home when 5:30 rolls around
 

Chakoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,842
Toronto, Canada
SV isn't the issue, it's companies trying to shove an office culture that does understand it or just wants it on paper. I've been working in software since 2001 and the companies where people were more happy and more things got done is when the culture was organic and not rigid.

+1 learned this the hard way with BFV. No more.

Come 6pm, I don't give a shit if all hell breaks loose.
Gaming is its own kind of hell. Expecting 3 people to do the work of 10 for 2/3 the pay a person would get outside of gaming. My favorite was "emergency" meetings that just happen to need to be done over lunch and nope can't have that hour back you're on a deadline for a demo at 5. I started to tell PMs to fuck off I won't attend if they want the stuff by EoD.
 
Jun 1, 2019
277
Keeping work and private life separate is the one rule I'll never break. 8 hours a day and I'm gone.
Learning how to separate your job from your personal life is one of the biggest keys in remaining happy as an adult. If the stress at work is so much that I can't separate it from my personal life then I know it's time for me to find a new job.
 

-Pyromaniac-

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,376
It's also a chicken and egg thing though. My workplace would have NEVER put in a pingpong table and "game room" if they didn't have to. But they were facing high turnover in the "tech" departments because of people leaving for other companies that they did it as a ploy to keep them around and make them happier because that was the expectations of these younger digital workers I guess.

Work life balance is definitely something you have to take into your own hands. I have rules I stick by and I make them clear any time I have a new boss. I try to work from home at least once a week to take a breather, I always leave by 4, and I'll rarely be around by 5, even rarer beyond that unless there is a genuine need.

I am guilty of answering emails and stuff in the evening but part of that is I'm not married yet and I don't have kids or even a pet so I don't mind doing it. But does set a bad precedent, I can admit that.
 

Chakoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,842
Toronto, Canada
One other aspect, which is related to the hustle culture, I think is really screwing up work culture is the highly optimized metrics for performer evaluation. Sure it can be effective for the company's bottom line but it leads to similar things like Amazon warehouse worker afraid of taking breaks.

Any management that tries to sell you on hustle culture (outside of sales) should be a red flag for you to leave. No company I've been at that did this stayed around or kept proper talent. These are the places that will expect overtime to prove yourself.
 

regenhuber

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,215
But there's a dark side. As the boundaries between work and life become more porous, everyone works all the time.

Bingo!
That's what I experienced during my short stint at a "hipster company".

Over time my thoughts went from "Oh, cool! I'm having a beer with my boss at the office at 9pm" to "WTF am doing at the office at 9pm?!".

Honestly don't miss that shit one bit. Work at a big "no fun allowed" company now and my private life is totally detached from work now. Sucks that I gotta dress up a little, but it's still better than that other shit.
 

Girder_Shade

Banned
Sep 22, 2019
140
Silicon Valley essentially built California into what it is today. Without it the state wouldn't be the powerhouse it is right now in terms of GDP for the US.
 

Deleted member 17402

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,125
Ultimately, the article aims to point Silicon Valley (SV) work culture being a state of working all the time. While that may be true, don't be fooled into thinking that a lot of jobs outside of SV don't expect employees to be on-call 24/7 or work beyond a typical 9-5 shift. I'd rather have all of the benefits mentioned in the article, especially the free food and unlimited vacation, if I'm already going to be asked to work beyond capacity.

Personally, if I've accepted the offer, then I've accepted the responsibility. I'd rather be on vacation and haggled over Skype and email intermittently than have relatively no vacation days at all and trudge into the office without any of the perks. Do I think that there is something nefarious with all of these perks? Absolutely. The article paints it clear as day that the area between work and your own time is muddied, seemingly made into one. But if I enjoy the work and have all of those benefits, that beats working overtime without them in a traditional setting.

I'm not asking for something as extravagant at what may be on display at Google or another tech giant. I just want free meals and remote work whenever possible. lol
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,380
Maybe I'm lucky, but I get to work from home twice a week. Not once have I been asked to log in after my typical work day, nor have I ever been asked to work weekends. My work / life balance has improved without having my escape from work compromised. Instead of saying "Silicon Valley ruined x" we should be saying "shitty companies found ways to exploit the shittier aspects of Silicon Valley".
 

regenhuber

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,215
I don't understand why people need table tennis and beer in the office. I've visited a bunch of different clients - mostly in the US - and every one of them has had a table tennis or table football table that's never been used, and a load of bean bag chairs nobody's ever sat in.

Perhaps it's because I've worked from home for so long - about a decade - but the last thing I'd want is more home comforts in a communal office. I'd rather just go home if I want to play table tennis, or do a quiz, or drink beer.

It's pretty simple, companies try to turn the transactional "employer vs employee" relationship into sort of a weird friendship.
Much harder to say "no" when asked to stay longer if you eat their food and play ping pong at their place.

A quid pro quo where the employee loses in the end. Hiring a caterer and buying bean bags cost next to nothing if your employees pay you back with free overtime and longer access hours.
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,613
Is this really Silicon Valley's doing? I work at a non-tech Midwestern office where the owners aped Silicon Valley trappings but no one from tech was involved. They just did the things they saw on TV, thinking those were the key to success (and not the obvious "they just happened to be on the ground floor of a disruptive sector").

By the way, this hybrid is the worst, because you get the "why are you leaving after 8 hours?!" bullshit from coworkers, but all the really bad benefits associated with older offices, like fixed schedules and no remote work. Having exposed brick alone doesn't make you modern.
 

ruggiex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,085
Any management that tries to sell you on hustle culture (outside of sales) should be a red flag for you to leave. No company I've been at that did this stayed around or kept proper talent. These are the places that will expect overtime to prove yourself.

I certainly would never work at a place like that. I've seen and heard more and more places implementing this kind of system on jobs that they can easily replace workers. Turn over rate is super high but there are always new fresh blood.
 

Galactor

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
619
Some quick 5 minute mortal kombat 2 after lunch or 10 minutes in the beanbag drinking coffee doesn't sound bad
 

Deleted member 3183

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,517
I do think it's hilariously awful how many executives are trying to ape Silicon Valley's culture and pretending they're just like Steve Jobs (assholery and all) in industries like window coverings and roofing shingles. As if that's what they needed.
 

Auberji

Member
Oct 25, 2017
685
Some quick 5 minute mortal kombat 2 after lunch or 10 minutes in the beanbag drinking coffee doesn't sound bad

This isn't quite what the problem is though. It's an attempt at getting you to stay longer hours.

I worked for a hardware virtualisation company that was awful for this, especially since they promoted their "work anywhere" lifestyle. This resulted in me having their app on my /personal/ phone after being pressured to install it by an executive, it being installed on my personal computer and other things. But you got free bacon rolls and other incentives! Weeeeee

Also I don't think I've ever felt like I can actually use any of this stuff, I feel like I'm taking the piss by sitting down for half an hour to play CoD. I have tickets to deliver.
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,157
Gentrified Brooklyn
Depends on the company. There are good tech companies out here in the bay area with great work cultures. Gotta look hard.

Just like everything else, 98% of the companies suck. But damn near 98% of pretty much everything sucks, Silicon Valley isn't shielded from that rule.

Yeah, but Silicon Valley has continually stresses they are the "good guys" in the corporate world, not the same banking/climate and employee abusing manufacturing corporate gods of old
 

Failburger

Banned
Dec 3, 2018
2,455
This is why I tell my co-workers that I don't want a long career.

I want a short career and a long retirement.

Though it kills me how whenever I'm working with clients that's 100% remote and my office requires me to work in the office for no reason at all.
 

skeptem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,749
I do think it's hilariously awful how many executives are trying to ape Silicon Valley's culture and pretending they're just like Steve Jobs (assholery and all) in industries like window coverings and roofing shingles. As if that's what they needed.
It really extends everywhere. I've been to robotics companies in the mid-west that pay their employees way below what they should be making, offer terrible benefits, people work 16 hour days regularly, but the office is cool and they have free lunch 3 days a week.

Too many companies are trying to mask terrible work environments with bean bags. I' will take an 8 hour day and good pay in a shitty office over any of the open concept hell holes with an espresso machine I've been to.
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,613
Story from the "we really want to be Silicon Valley" company I worked for in the early 2010s:

When I started, the company allowed any employee to work overtime (didn't need to be approved) and paid all of it. So, mostly being young, we'd all work 10-12 hours a day, six days a week. I still only made about $50k my first year but I thought that was great money at that time in my life.

Well, the company hit a rough patch and had to stop paying overtime. They announced to all of us that it had been cut and wouldn't be paid anymore. OK, that sucks, but after a year of that I thought I'd risk burning out anyway. So back to 40 hour work weeks, no problem.

About three months later, during performance reviews, I didn't get a raise. In fact, I was the only employee on my team that didn't get one, even though my work product was exceptional. I went and asked my supervisor about it, and she said, "Oh, management said you didn't get a raise because your work ethic and attendance isn't as good as your peers."

"What? I've never been late or missed a day, and I exceed all my goals."

"Well, yes, but... Well, they said that they were disappointed when you stopped working overtime hours when they stopped paying overtime hours. They really expect more hustle from staff."

"But... it's literally illegal for me to work without being paid....? It's probably also illegal to pass me over for a raise for not doing illegal things."

"Sure, but we've crunched the numbers and it's more profitable to just pay wage claim settlements and fines than it is to follow labor laws, so...."

Actually, reflecting on it, this was probably the moment when I truly understood what "late stage capitalism" meant.
 

Pororoka

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,210
MX
I work around 78 hours a week like most of the staff here, something like 13 hours per day, holidays and weekends included and I barely make $640 a month. And the administration is always asking for more profit. Most if not all the workforce is burned out but we are still working here because every company is like that in this area, just with different perks or shifts.

If at least I made a Silicon Valley salary I wouldn't complain.
 

FunkyStudent

Member
Jan 28, 2019
768
I work around 78 hours a week like most of the staff here, something like 13 hours per day, holidays and weekends included and I barely make $640 a month. And the administration is always asking for more profit. Most if not all the workforce is burned out but we are still working here because every company is like that in this area, just with different perks or shifts.

If at least I made a Silicon Valley salary I wouldn't complain.
Are you in the US? That's sub-minimum wage.