Just wanted to drop in and say that I've been appreciating all of OP's FFXIV posts. I started around the same time you did and just started making my way into Stormblood. This game was such a pleasant surprise and an absolute joy to play. Definitely grateful I started playing it at the start of the pandemic.
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoy these so much :D
I feel like people only want plot and no character and world building anymore.
99% of the time people complain about filler in stories it's because the story isn't just drowning in constant unending plot.
Shadowbringers puts in the work to make you care about this world you're just introduced to. If you just rush through it to get to the plot and ignore everything else then people won't care. Hell, I've seen many comments here and elsewhere of feeling way more connection to the First than Eorzea due to how it's developed.
This is a super reductive take. I took a month playing through 5.0, made sure to do ALL of the Role Quests before finishing the story even though you only needed to do one, did all of the unlock quests in each zone, and even did quite a few just standard side quests (specifically for the dwarves). Having a focus on character development and world building doesn't have to come at the expense of sidelining the current series of events I was already wrapped up in.
Mainly one thing: Shadowbringers is the most 'human' expansion of the game. You can call it a bit 'too melodramatic' but is the more character driven expansion in the game and is a beautiful tale of how when humanity stands together it can become the best version of itself. Is a charming tale of compassion, love, family, friendship and redemption.
Compare it with the jingoistic nationalism of Stormblood that ends with people chanting a fucking national anthem. Stormblood is about people ties with the place they were born and how those define them. Shadowbringers is about people ties not with land or nation, but with each other and how when we stand as equals and together we can face everything.
Nationalism being the central conceit of Stormblood isn't such a bad thing, and it's not entirely jingoistic. Stormblood works so well because, even if the execution isn't airtight, it's still a fluid continuation and culmination of a TON of elements introduced in 2.0 and 2.X (and hell, even earlier than that for 1.0 and 1.X players). Ala Mhigo, Doma, and the victims of their occupation are set up and established years in advance. Plus, Stormblood is pretty thorough in showing a national loyalty, and what the actual value/damage of that is, through responsibility and nuance (through Raubahn), fiery and well meaning but naive and inexperienced (Lyse), or how one's obsessive relationship with their home can utterly destroy them and those around them (Yotsuyu and Fordola). That final bit with the chanting in STB IS terrible, and the ending overall isn't that good, but storming Ala Mhigo under the command of Raubahn in a mission of liberation is still pretty hard hitting and awesome.
If ShB is the worst expansion then that shows how great this game is! XD
That's true! I still overall had a very good time with it, and it's a testament to the ridiculous level of quality FFXIV aspires for and maintains.
I felt the same way that you did going into the expansion but I completely changed my opinion after I'd finished it. I just wanted to get back to the "real" world and the "important" characters in the source. The beauty of Shadowbringers is in the realization that this attitude is the exact same attitude that compels the Ascians to do what they do. The world that you know and love is just a poor imitation of the "real" world that was lost to them. This is what makes Emet-Selch such an incredibly compelling character. Instead of viewing everything as a side quest, realize that everyone you're saving in the first is just as real and deserving of life as the people that you know in the source. It's truly an incredible story with a powerful message to contemplate.
This is super valuable and interesting insight. I hadn't considered the meta implications of my attachment to the Source and its active struggles damaging my enjoyment of SHB similar to how the Ascians can't let the past die.
That said, the troubles of Eorzea aren't eons past, but are still active and on-going, and I wouldn't want to
not save the First and all of its inhabitants; it is still really satisfying to kill the Light Wardens one by one as a nice "fuck you" to Eulmore, but I just wish it all could have waited a bit till I'd resolved more Source stuff.
Yeah no, can't agree with anything OP said here. Stormblood was downright boring for large portions of the MSQ whereas SHB I can only remember maybe one particular section that dragged on for longer than I would've wanted it to.
Maybe its because Stormblood is more politically driven (a la FFXII) and SHB is more character driven. Zenos is nowhere near as good an antagonist as Emet-Selch or Elidibus.
Zenos is absolutely weaker than the Ascians (especially Selch), but I think you hit the nail on the head about the comparison to FFXII. That's also my favorite Final Fantasy haha.
I do agree that it felt a bit weird in terms of timing to go off to the first when the garlean story looked to be reaching its final act, and now it seems like the empire is going to be dealt with off screen for the most part. I think in terms of sequence we should've dealt with empire and some ascian stuff first, then headed off to the first to deal with the greater more existential threat of the ascians and the sound.
THIS is what I'm talking about. I'd be 100% down with the SHB premise if more of the stuff in 4.X was resolved beforehand or maybe tackled concurrently. I don't really have any interest in the WoL being the defining centerpiece of the story. I enjoy being the "muscle" as was mentioned earlier by another poster, and being an uplifting force in other characters' stories, which I thought Stormblood did especially well through Lyse, Raubahn, and Hien.
Emet Selch is great and the lore of the expansion adds a lot to the world.
But the main reason is the gameplay loop of going to a region, defeating the lightwarden and bringing night back to an area is extremely good for pacing. Much better than 'oh btw maybe we should deal with the primal'.
I do agree with this; the Light Warden hit list is better than centering certain parts of the story around quelling Primals; this felt especially limp in Stormblood (even though the actual fights are spectacular).
OP you are 100% right but people aren't ready for the truth yet.
So I'm not insane haha. I also agree about the Exarch; I didn't even mention him because he's just kinda there (and the reveal of his identity fell very flat).
Thanks for the OP's take. Interesting points for sure. If i understand OP's take correctly, 3.0 should be considered as filler too. They went off to fight dragons Instead of the empire ;) However, it is worth noting that the 5.0 story was hinted way back in 3.x. The 5.0 story also directly deals with the Ascians and the core mythology. I would say, 3.0 should actually be considered more filler than 5.0.
I of course think none of the expansions are fillers.
The execution of 5.0 is materially very different from 3.0, even if they begin superficially similar (thrust away from the immediate crisis and into a new environment). An enormous part of 2.0 and 2.X is dedicated to getting to know the Ishgardians, the Dragonsong war, and trying to get Ishgard on your side. In 2.X you meet the core new characters integral to 3.0 including Aymerick, Lucia and Ysale (and Estinien if you've done the dragoon quests by then). The ultimate entry into Ishgard, even done under threat and duress by other forces, still feels sufficiently earned and built up. Plus, the aspects of the story that force the WoL away aren't abandoned; almost all of that is tended to and dealt with throughout 3.0 and with direct player involvement.
I think for me, I liked the very fact it was isekai lite. I liked that it was post apocalypse and the scale of the world was very small so you could learn everything about this place in 1 expansion. I found the general concept behind the story and setting fascinating and very much FF9 inspired in many ways. It was also a nice break from the constant ongoing politicalness of the last 3 and we got a more self contained adventure. World politics tend to be a very dry topic usually in ff14.
There were definitely some bad lows but not as many as previous expansions in my opinion. I remember huge swaths of boredom in all the expansions. But that's just me. Im not a hardcore fan.
I hope 6.0 can bring something new and interesting like SBs did and it's not just back to status quo political warfare between the regions.
The "isekai" style premise of Shadowbringers is also a sticking point for me I guess, because I haaate isekai (unless it's done very carefully in a parody-style humorous fashion or something). The politics of the FFXIV world are my biggest anchor to it.
Some of the OP's particular sentiments I agree with. There's some really bad story stuff in Shadowbringers: Eulmore/Vauthry/Ranjit is a snoozefest given too much screentime. I think Ryne is some of the most cliche garbage writing this team has ever done. The mining stuff towards the end, etc. You correctly surmise that it's the last 10% of the story that elevates Shadowbringers in the consensus opinion, though I think the beginning is really good too with the exposition of the Crystarium and Light Wardens up to bringing the first night.
I also agree that going to the First was quite the shift away from the Garlean plot, though I'd say this is fairly typical of the writing team at this point. Remember we were dealing with Ul'Dah political turmoil before (understandably, mind you) fucking off to Ishgard for an entire expansion. Heavensward patches brought us Ardbert and his Warrior of Darkness story which had fuck all to do with anything that came before or after. And then the First stuff post-Stormblood.
This by no means makes Shadowbringers filler, though. How can we say this about a story that essentially revealed the main backstory driving the entire plot along with the villains' central motivations and the defeat of - to our understanding - the most powerful villain who actually created the Garlean Empire in the first place? Not to mention revealing YOUR character's backstory and your place within the story.
Frankly Shadowbringers did SO MUCH with the main story that at this point it's pretty well-known that 6.0 will be the last expansion to deal with the current storyline of Zodiark/Hydaelyn because there's not much else to do with it.
Frankly I was pretty worried for FFXIV in the Stormblood patch stories when they brought back literally everyone that died. I still think bringing back Zenos was a huge mistake as he and his little freakshow servant have done nothing but drag down the story every scene they've been in. But I'll reserve final judgment until post 6.0 there.
The difference with the Ul'dah drama is that that is still addressed and solved within the 3.0 HVW story, and even with player involvement. The reason I say Shadowbringers feels like filler is because the ridiculously high concept questions it answers, the lore it deepens, and the finale it presents didn't necessarily have to come at the cost of the story I was engaged with just hours earlier. I don't think it's a zero-sum game; Shadowbringers could have delivered Selch and that absolutely, jaw dropping, unbelievable finale while also at least offering some progress and resolution to the existing crisis (which is what HVW 3.0 did manage to do). I think you could even still have the First and its entire story if it was at least built up to more thoroughly so it feels more entwined to what I'm doing, similar to how Ishgard, Ala Mhigo, and Doma all have TONS of material setting them up sufficiently, so it feels like a reward when I'm treated with spending time in those environments. I would say unquestionably that there IS a ton of set up and pay off for the projected city and the rationale for everything surrounding the 5.0 finale, but again, that's still the final 10% or so of the main story. The WoD from 3.X do provide some setup for the First, but it's nowhere near as material or deep as how Ishgard, Ala Mhigo, and Doma are established beforehand.
