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MercuryLS

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,578
There is always going to be a subset of gamers that want the most powerful whatever. PS5 sounds like a well balanced machine to me, at a good price with great software I'm there.

What I want to see is how the power difference plays out in multiplats, if 4K is the target, but machines should be able to do it without much issue.
 

maabus1999

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,900
im not tech person myself, but a buddy of mine claims he is, and says the ps5 might actually be better and more powerful. Can someone let me know if he is right or wrong?

the IO throughput is so much higher than the Xbox that everything is going to load faster on the PS5. The RAM is also clocked higher so assets will load faster on PS5. The GPU runs at a higher frequency so the graphics calculations will be much faster on PS5. And the CPU frequency difference is .3 GHz, which is basically nothing.

Does that above make the ps5 more powerful?
Need to find a new tech buddy.
 

Asklepios

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,505
United Kingdom
This got buried in the other hyper fast moving thread. What was Sony's goal with releasing this spec-sheet lecture? What am I supposed to imagine as I compare it with new Xbox?
 

Exodia

Alt Account
Banned
Jan 9, 2020
80
So we've probably got:

XSX - 3rd party games should look/run substantially better (sort of like XOX), more internal storage, gamepass, backwards compatibility advantages

PS5 - 1st party games should be super impressive with options opened up by the SSD tech (on top of Sony's first party output being generally accepted as better), more consumer friendly storage expansions, possible audio advantages

Both systems looking good, would have been nice to see a more raw power out of the PS5 - curious to see where pricing lands on both

Generally really impressed with Microsoft "bringing it" this generation after flopping the back half of 360 / front half of XB1 - I hope their studio acquisitions pan out in terms of more compelling first party software this gen

Wait xbox SERIES X uses a HDD?
 
Aug 26, 2018
1,793
Anyone curious about the cooling system in PS5?

To run at 2.23ghz most of the time must require incredible cooling, really curious to see what Sony got cookin there.
 

Issen

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,816
This got buried in the other hyper fast moving thread. What was Sony's goal with releasing this spec-sheet lecture? What am I supposed to imagine as I compare it with new Xbox?
Considering this was a replacement of their GDC presentation, I'm guessing you weren't the target audience. It was for game devs.
 

JamRock7

Banned
Aug 19, 2019
2,125
FL
There is always going to be a subset of gamers that want the most powerful whatever. PS5 sounds like a well balanced machine to me, at a good price with great software I'm there.

What I want to see is how the power difference plays out in multiplats, if 4K is the target, but machines should be able to do it without much issue.
???
Who wouldn't want a powerful machine?
 

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,599
Italy
Aaaand XSX is officially the most powerful console as advertised (with the only exception of SSD).

Very curious to see the price difference between them now.

If Sony will market PS5 with the same price of XSX, they will shoot themselves on their foot for example.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,888
What happened to hardware accelerated ray-tracing that was used as a talking point for so long, yet it's barely mentioned? They're starting to realize just how demanding it is, aren't they?
 

chimpsteaks

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 12, 2019
1,170
I still need a PS5, but I'm now strongly considering building either a top notch gaming PC as well for multiplats and MS exclusives. Maybe even get an Xbox for that
 

DSP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,120
where does this comparison come that the xsx isnt efficient or designed smartly?
not only from you, ive seen it thrown around by many people
Tales from their ass. Xbox is straight up better performing. There is nothing to debate for. People are just a bit disappointed which is understandable.
 

LuigiV

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,684
Perth, Australia
Boost clocks don't boost for that long. Less than 5.
This isn't a mobile device. Boost clocks do not always behave that way. Desktop PC CPUs and GPUs are capable of maintaining boost clocks close to 100% of the time when needed, even with their stock coolers. It will be a similar story for PS5 though, admittedly, dependent on circumstance. PS5 boosts based on activity, rather than temperature, so it remains to be seen what type of activity will trigger max clock and what will force lower clocks but when it does hit max clocks it should have no trouble maintaining them indefinitely as long as activity remains constant.
 

Hikari

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,685
Elysium
Aaaand XSX is officially the most powerful console as advertised (with the only exception of SSD).

Very curious to see the price difference between them now.

If Sony will market PS5 with the same price of XSX, they will shoot themselves on their foot for example.

Why exactly? The powerful part doesn't really matter until we see the game library IMO.
 

Zedark

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,719
The Netherlands
First of all, we don't really know how low frequency can go. Cerny said that lowering frequency by a few % leads to 10% power consumption reduction. Also you are saying it yourself that we don't now how the SSD will affect games (and that's Sony's fault) so why are you convinced that XSX is better?
Well, I'm not, actually. I stated in my post that the XSX has beefier CPU and GPU, but the SSD is a lot faster in the PS5 (2.3x) and that the precise impact of the SDD is still difficult to grasp (and most interesting to speculate. My percentage determination was based on the 10% drop in power consumption Cerny mentioned, but to be exact, he didn't actually that that was the actual amount by which power consumption by the GPU needs to drop, so it's probably to go with the 15.4% difference I cited first (the max boost clock number for PS5).

I'm just really curious what benefits the SSD brings to the table compared to the one in the XSX, considering devs are already playing with a 50x increase compared to last gen in the XSX, so it's not like that system provides a meagre increase in IO throughput or anything. I'm hoping DF will delve into this, hopefully with a real-time IO throughput comparison for otherwise similarly-spec'ed rigs.
 

veras

Member
Oct 27, 2017
183
Wait xbox SERIES X uses a HDD?

No, it's an ssd - but the ps5 ssd is a faster more custom solution according to early information

3rd party games/engines will be designed around the lower speed one wrt to asset streaming etc but 1st party ps5 games can take full advantage
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,665
The Milky Way
the IO throughput is so much higher than the Xbox that everything is going to load faster on the PS5.
Yes
The RAM is also clocked higher so assets will load faster on PS5.
Most of XSX's RAM is clocked higher than PS5.
The GPU runs at a higher frequency so the graphics calculations will be much faster on PS5.
That's not how it works when XSX has significantly more compute units and therefore more GPU power than PS5. Also the frequency quoted on the PS5 GPU is only a boost clock, not continuous.
 

chubigans

Vertigo Gaming Inc.
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,560
Microsoft was never going to let Sony get the drop on them in terms of specs- doing so would have been a complete disaster and they weren't about to lose the power game again (despite being worlds apart on SSD speeds, which they obviously didn't see coming).

That's why I think you'll see a huge gap in pricing for PS5/Xbox- At least $100, but likely $200-250. If MS can close that gap below $100 then that would be a massive, massive win.

I don't think they will, and more importantly, I don't think they have to- all of their games will be multiplatform for Xbox consoles, and Game Pass allows them to target all three markets at once (the entry level Xbox One, the still-impressive Xbox X, and the high end premium Series X).

We'll see what happens, but I think we're seeing Sony still go for the main consumer, and MS going for the power user who doesn't mind higher prices- and that's exactly where each audience is on their respective platforms.
 

Dokkaebi G0SU

Member
Nov 2, 2017
5,922
so the only Sony games that will take advantage of the 5.5 gb/s SSD will be the exclusive games right? Isn't that what Cerny touched on about the SSD allowing to build games without limitations on the loading data? Examples of why we have winding paths, elevator rides and etc.

I want to understand if building a game with a 2.4 g/s ssd will limit 3rd party developers? Can any developer chime in?
 

LordofPwn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,402
Seems PS5 has custom hardware to offload tasks from the CPU and GPU. I have to imagine XSX has done something similar? or what kinda of power efficiency are we looking at on the PS5?
 

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,468
So Xbox will have better multiplats, but PS5 will have God of War. Sounds like I'll have to get both. Just as it should be.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,800
This isn't a mobile device. Boost clocks do not always behave that way. Desktop PC CPUs and GPUs are capable of maintaining boost clocks close to 100% of the time when needed, even with their stock coolers. It will be a similar story for PS5 though, admittedly, dependent on circumstance. PS5 boosts based on activity, rather than temperature, so it remains to be seen what type of activity will trigger max clock and what will force lower clocks but when it does hit max clocks it should have no trouble maintaining them indefinitely as long as activity remains constant.

The way it is described in the Eurogamer article is that the console has a specific power budget, say 200W. This means that if a scene requires more CPU power and the CPU boosts, the GPU might need to downclock to stay within that power budget.
 
Dec 8, 2018
1,911
RDNA 2 GPU and ZEN2 CPU...XSX and PS5 are the closest to gaming PCs ever in console history. Hell these were benchmarked using Windows 10!


"It's really important to clarify the PlayStation 5's use of variable frequencies. It's called 'boost' but it should not be compared with similarly named technologies found in smartphones, or even PC components like CPUs and GPUs. "
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Basically the exact same scenario as the One X and PS4 Pro.

The One X has 43% more computational power (Tflops) than the PS4 Pro.

The Series X has 18% more computational power (Tflops) than the PS4 Pro.

The One X has 12GB of GDDR5 at 326 GB/s, whilst the PS4 Pro has 8GB of GDDR5 at 218 GB/s. So the One X has 4GB more ram than the Pro, plus ram that is 50% faster.

The Series X has 16GB of GDDR6, 10GB of which is at 560GB/s and 6GB of which is at 335GB/s, whilst the PS5 also has 16GB of GDDR6 the entirety of which is at 448GB/s.

So they have exactly the same amount of ram, where PS5's ram is 34% faster than 6GB's of the Series X's, whilst 10GB of the Series X's ram is 25% faster than the PS5's.

So yea, not remotely like the PS4 Pro vs the Xbox One X.
 
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rokkerkory

Banned
Jun 14, 2018
14,128
Now I wonder when / if Lockhart will be announced. If Lockhart can be around 7-8 rdna 2 TF at cheaper price than PS5 would be awesome. We'd have great choices for all consumer types.
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,605
Can we retire car analogies in 2020?

We need to strictly adhere to DragonBall and Gamecube stacks as the only analogies capable of describing differences with any kind of nuance.
 

Jiraiya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,279
Microsoft was never going to let Sony get the drop on them in terms of specs- doing so would have been a complete disaster and they weren't about to lose the power game again (despite being worlds apart on SSD speeds, which they obviously didn't see coming).

That's why I think you'll see a huge gap in pricing for PS5/Xbox- At least $100, but likely $200-250. If MS can close that gap below $100 then that would be a massive, massive win.

I don't think they will, and more importantly, I don't think they have to- all of their games will be multiplatform for Xbox consoles, and Game Pass allows them to target all three markets at once (the entry level Xbox One, the still-impressive Xbox X, and the high end premium Series X).

We'll see what happens, but I think we're seeing Sony still go for the main consumer, and MS going for the power user who doesn't mind higher prices- and that's exactly where each audience is on their respective platforms.

Phil stated scarlet won't be out of position on power or price. 200 to 250 more sounds way out of position. I can't imagine the ssd in the ps5 drives the price down.
 

Zedark

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,719
The Netherlands
You might see some slightly worse resolution or details on some games, but ultimately it will be very close and they will both age into the latter half of the gen well, unlike the Xbox one s and it's memory bandwidth problem. They're both pretty solid, and the ps5 has the advantage of great first party studios.
In the end, this is an important point for everyone to keep in mind imo. These systems are top of the line gaming machines in 2020, much more than what XB1 and PS4 were when they hit the market. The generational leap will be grand and even high end PCs will not be outperforming these systems by a large margin at launch already I think. This makes both systems quite resilient even as we head into late-gen, I think. Point being: games designed around lightning-fast SSDs that are in both the XSX and the PS5 will see a significant improvement in terms of believability due to vastly improved NPC densities, much better asset loading, and will have the CPU freed up in the process (as was explained in the XSX deep dive article). It'll be an embarrassment of riches in that regard whichever system you go with, and neither can reasonably be called underpowered.

We saw some ray tracing talk, but I don't know how these consoles compare to what the RTX 2080 Ti can do in that regard. That's another interesting point of comparison, as it's the hot new graphical feature that next gen will make mainstream.