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Gedi

Member
Oct 29, 2017
785
?

They've been testing those TOP 100 PS4 games and most of those will be playable at launch (as they need to fix shit on a game by game basis), hence the "less than a 100 PS4 games playable at launch" on PS5.

Firstly they've only tested 100 games, they've not said they've had to fix any games at all, just that some of the 100 had issues/didn't work. It would be incredibly disingenuous to come to the conclusion that the other thousands of titles they tested didn't work.

edit: the thousands of other titles they didn't test I meant obviously, apologies.
 

Le Dude

Member
May 16, 2018
4,709
USA
The multi-game suspend is gonna be a great feature for Series X. Being able to instantly switch between five or so games that you have loaded up will negate the startup loadtime advantage that the PS5 has, so long as you don't typically play more than 5 games at once.
 

HgS

Member
Dec 13, 2019
586
no I said it runs 100% in boost mode. the mode itself can throttle, but it tries to boost all the time, with temps being the influencing factor. they had to cap it to make the system quiet enough and cool enough. put the machine in a hot room, it will clock lower, put it in a cold room and it will boost to the cap.
Did anyone watch this presentation? or are you all just looking at the spec sheet and inventing meaning from words.

From Eurogamer: "all PS5 consoles process the same workloads with the same performance level in any environment, no matter what the ambient temperature may be."

That sounds like it has nothing to do with the ambient room temperature. I didn't watch the video, maybe Eurogamer is wrong?
 

Raguel

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,275
What does this mean for RT on PS5? It's def gonna be weaker than Xbox Series X but how much weaker? I was all hyped for RT next gen but the ps5's specs seems like it'll be handicapped
 

lunanto

Banned
Dec 1, 2017
7,648
I got the feeling that PS5 is like a compendium of technical things and tricks, XSX looks much more straightforward.
 

JackBauer24

Member
Oct 28, 2017
586
If I'm Microsoft, I bite the bullet and announce $449 with a game included. Sony goes $399, they win again despite having a worse console.
 
Jan 15, 2018
191
I think people are underplaying how massive of a deal the I/O speeds actually are. You will get a bigger generational jump from that than from the 1.5 flops it is lacking in the gpu
I don't think so. I/O speed is important, but not if the system stalls on data or relies on waiting for other components. No you won't get a bigger generational leap from I/O then you would raw GPU rendering power. Not even close. Xboxsex is able to optimized performance by removing texture data that isn't seen to the user. This will payoff far more then increasing the I/O speed
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,734
'most' run 'fine' is a nothing statement.

Agreed. But it wasn't a 'most of the top 100 games run fine and that's it' statement either.

I don't think so. I/O speed is important, but not if the system stalls on data or relies on waiting for other components. No you won't get a bigger generational leap from I/O then you would raw GPU rendering power. Not even close. Xboxsex is able to optimized performance by removing texture data that isn't seen to the user. This will payoff far more then increasing the I/O speed

I mean that's what Sony's talking about too with the illustration Cerny gave of viewpoint dependent streaming. But they can pump through twice the data in doing that - twice the resolution or data density per 'view'?
 

Kanethered

Member
May 29, 2019
243


I don't know... Even if this conference is for the professionals, I think they should never have done this, ever.

Look at these fake audiences and dull lecture. These kind of stuffs just instantly kills the hype of average consumers.

Since they knew their main competitor's numbers, they should have just hidden the fact that their machine is weaker and released them later with actual gameplay demo on the live stage. It would be much more forgivable.

Sony PR team made a huge mistake.

That's what I'm saying. Glad to know my opinion is the same with a highly notable industry expert.
 

Kitsune84

Member
Jan 2, 2018
44
why am I the only one thinking that ps5 may be more expensive. All those custom chips. And especially that 5,5GB ssd will cost a lot. And chips that can maintain that 2.3 ghz clock. The will launch at the same price.
 

Radline

Member
Oct 28, 2017
921
These differences are a lot more interesting than comparing the Xbox One and PS4 to each other, especially if the PS5 turns out to be cheaper. Neither of these are disappointing me.
 

isahn

Member
Nov 15, 2017
990
Roma
no I said it runs 100% in boost mode. the mode itself can throttle, but it tries to boost all the time, with temps being the influencing factor. they had to cap it to make the system quiet enough and cool enough. put the machine in a hot room, it will clock lower, put it in a cold room and it will boost to the cap.
Did anyone watch this presentation? or are you all just looking at the spec sheet and inventing meaning from words.
so the XSX is a mini fridge but we need to put PS5 in a fridge to extract performance from its GPU
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
Why was Jason saying these consoles were "extremely close" when apparently he didn't actually know? Weird.

presumably he was reporting what he'd heard. Don't forget that companies can and have made reactive development decisions in the wake of competitor announcements - including upgrades but also financial decisions- if a spec was too expensive to chase or match they could leave that alone and shift budget or effort to a differentiator- Wii for example using control method as its selling point vs graphics performance. Jason may have been accurate until things changed. Happens all the time.



In this case the combination of e3 and gdc flux meant nobody could enact their normal planning cadence- and Sony or others may have had to adjust planning to accommodate that flux. This may be a hybrid of gdc and other work. As a player and enthusiast it may be dry but I appreciate the insight.

I have zero insight into their business- but Sony being based in Japan, marketing globally, manufacturing in Japan, Korea and in China and building their next gen from a different place in the market and technology means you shouldn't expect either a copy of the Series X or a clone of the PS4 plan or approach.

the SSD stuff is an example of both companies thinking about how to use all that horsepower beyond flinging pixels at players — and on both systems that will provide unexpected and unpredictable benefits - but both companies have had traditionally very different ecosystems and OS features where that infrastructure will be as important as the underlying tech.

and that's without considering price, play patterns and developer output.
 

ty_hot

Banned
Dec 14, 2017
7,176
PS5's 825GB of SSD seems like a really weird number they used just to achieve a given target price. Im hoping it is 100 less than the Series X but expecting 50.

The I/O will probably only impact positively first party games, streaming more data means creating more assets as well so third party titles just cant do that. Im totally fine with that though, Sony's first party is top notch.

Im in for the PS5 and extremely excited to try 3D audio.
 

Odeko

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Mar 22, 2018
15,180
West Blue
I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but I haven't really followed anything about the new consoles until clicking on this thread — what's the backwards compatibility situation look like? Have either Sony or Microsoft said anything about that?
 

EVIL

Senior Concept Artist
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,782
so you're saying playing PS5 in the summer isn't ideal?
and I am out since this is getting ridiculous. I was overly optimistic in intelligent conversations in this thread. I am fine in explaining things, but I am not getting pulled into a console war argument.
 

Heropon_

Member
Oct 31, 2017
342
I have a question as I'm not a game developer, but am I wrong thinking that third party games will mostly be developed limited by the less powerful console, and this will offset most of the hardware differences between the two consoles and third party games will look very similar ? Sure it'll be different for exclusives.
 

DopeyFish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,788
and I am out since this is getting ridiculous. I was overly optimistic in intelligent conversations in this thread. I am fine in explaining things, but I am not getting pulled into a console war argument.
how is it a console war argument?

i'm asking very direct questions to statements which make zero sense
 

Godzilla24

Member
Nov 12, 2017
3,371
MIZxvLS.jpg
 

Thekiddfran

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
232
The only that matters is price. If Sony launch at 399, they win the generation. Everything else is secondary
 

Nesther

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,056
Switzerland
they expected it to be ready last year

But isn't the AMD chip not even out yet?

Also I don't see the comparison to Kinect. If the SSD-capabilities are indeed as far reaching as Cerny claims them to be, it'll be a game-changer for core games and a godsend for first-party devs like Naughty Dog that've been using tricks all these years.
 

Yankee Ruin X

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,684
The way I am seeing this in car terms is:

XSX = Big American muscle car, loads of horsepower and really fast in a straight line.

PS5 = Italian exotic, less horsepower but used more efficiently and way better in the corners.
 

KodiakGTS

Member
Jun 4, 2018
1,097
My read on the variable frequency stuff was that they have some sort of heuristic that they use for estimating workload, and they lower the clock frequency automatically based on the anticipated workload at any given time. So it seems like they should be running at max frequency as a baseline with drops for more demanding titles. I wonder if this will lead to some reductions in performance for high utilization third party games in particular? I would assume that they've tested a fair bit and are convinced it will perform well most of the time, but you could definitely see that being a thing that bites some devs.

For the SSD I am really impressed by Sony's solution, but I'm not sure yet what it will actually mean compared to XSX. I liked the example he gave of asset streaming happening in the background while the player is turning, but the question is will there be diminishing returns with the PS5s speed advantage or not. It sounds like for existing consoles the optimal HDD performance (discounting seeks for simplicity) is around 150 MBps for compressed data. It sounds like the XSX will be around 32x faster than that (4.8 GBps) and the PS5 will be around 53-60x faster (8-9 GBps). In practice both will perform even better than that due to the elimination of seek times.

So I guess the question becomes will the PS5 feel markedly different than the XSX with regards to SSD performance, or will the XSX be enough of a boost over current gen that we really won't care.

I am very interested to see the form factor for PS5. Seems like it will clearly be smaller than the XSX and closer to a more traditional console in design.
 

2Blackcats

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,055
From Eurogamer: "all PS5 consoles process the same workloads with the same performance level in any environment, no matter what the ambient temperature may be."

That sounds like it has nothing to do with the ambient room temperature. I didn't watch the video, maybe Eurogamer is wrong?

No , you're right.

Came to say this. Performance is always the same.(in the same circumstances)

I'm tempted to blame posters but it was probably s bit technical for some.
 

jon bones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,998
NYC
The only that matters is price. If Sony launch at 399, they win the generation. Everything else is secondary

This only matters if you're more interested in console wars than you are actually playing video games

The way I am seeing this in car terms is:

XSX = Big American muscle car, loads of horsepower and really fast in a straight line.

PS5 = Italian exotic, less horsepower but used more efficiently and way better in the corners.

why wouldn't you pick a Japanese rally car for this analogy???

sony isn't even Italian! it's a terrible analogy, but at least get it right
 

DjDeathCool

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,638
Bismarck, ND
So, people in here are talking about Sony's nvme as if Xbox doesn't have one as well. I understand that the PlayStation's is twice as fast but, when you're comparing to a drive that is already incredibly fast, what threshold are we crossing that gives an edge over Xbox? Microsoft has also been talking about using their nvme to stream assets into and out of RAM with virtual memory... So, what potential does Sony's drive unlock that leaves Xbox in the dust?
 

Exodia

Alt Account
Banned
Jan 9, 2020
80
no I said it runs 100% in boost mode. the mode itself can throttle, but it tries to boost all the time, with temps being the influencing factor. they had to cap it to make the system quiet enough and cool enough. put the machine in a hot room, it will clock lower, put it in a cold room and it will boost to the cap.
Did anyone watch this presentation? or are you all just looking at the spec sheet and inventing meaning from words.


No the point every one is making is that it's not 10.28 all the time. It's not locked 10.28. It will waiver down.
 

Oh no

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
653
Came to say this. Performance is always the same.(in the same circumstances)

Yep, it depends on power draw doesn't it? If the CPU isn't under full load power can be routed to the GPU and vice versa? Means CPU and GPU will likely never run at their full boosted clocks at the same time but their performance will always be the same under the same workload.
 

Snake Eater

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,385
The PS4 was my main this generation but I'm pretty sure that Series X will be my choice. Too big a tech gap
 

Exodia

Alt Account
Banned
Jan 9, 2020
80
So, people in here are talking about Sony's nvme as if Xbox doesn't have one as well. I understand that the PlayStation's is twice as fast but, when you're comparing to a drive that is already incredibly fast, what threshold are we crossing that gives an edge over Xbox? Microsoft has also been talking about using their nvme to stream assets into and out of RAM with virtual memory... So, what potential does Sony's drive unlock that leaves Xbox in the dust?


You would think that they had a HDD or an off the selves sdd
 

Nostradamus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,280
The multi-game suspend is gonna be a great feature for Series X. Being able to instantly switch between five or so games that you have loaded up will negate the startup loadtime advantage that the PS5 has, so long as you don't typically play more than 5 games at once.
I doubt the PS5 doesn't do the same and in a more efficient way since the SSD is way faster.