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pg2g

Member
Dec 18, 2018
4,811
I personally think the benefits of the SSD speed are being overstated. At thr XSX rates you can fill the entire pool of RAM in 3 seconds with compressed data. Its 2 seconds at PS5 rates. Both are going to be more than fast enough for the streaming that games need.
 

VPplaya

Member
Nov 20, 2018
1,968
XSX seems to have slightly better specs overall, but I am curious as to how that will affect the price between them. And frankly, given how powerful both will be, it will absolutely come down to price.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
Basically the astounding SSD speed and the split memory difference?

I wonder how that will play out in games.
 
Dec 31, 2017
1,430
Yes on paper the xsx is a beefier machine but not by that much. Honestly ps5 seems like the better console just based of the deep dive into how the ssd will be utilized. I think that might be the biggest difference between the 2 consoles.
I mean you can try to spin it all you want, but all Sony can do is spin it as being better and hope it sticks because right now it's a really bad look.
 

unapersson

Member
Oct 27, 2017
661
Very happy about what I heard from Cerny's talk, PlayStation doing what they should be doing and what I'd expect from them.

Good to see the slightly different approaches from them both.
 

Skeff

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,628
"TFs aren't everything", true, but this difference will show up as lower res and such. There's just no getting away from the fact that the PS5 can't perform as many operations per second.

Variable clock frequency sounds janky. Especially given that the more advanced instructions a game uses, the more it will clock DOWN. So for very advanced games in a few years time we're looking at well below 10TF. That's gonna show next to Xbox's fixed 12.1 TF.

Disappointed, and the "extremely close" people need to explain themselves.

(Storage speed is very nice.)

They are extremely close, looking at GPU XSX is ~15% more powerful on operations, but likely PS5 has ~20% higher pixel and texture fill rate. We will be looking at similar performance with the difference probably single digit %

Let's see what the price difference is if any.
 

TheZynster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,285
If XSX is $499 and PS5 is $449, I'll get the XSX.

even if its a $100 gap....I'd still get the XSX.


Most 3rd party titles won't use what Sony has for a long time in terms of the weird SSD speed. It's always RAW power and learn the architecture out of the gate. Most companies fall to a common denominator being the X speeds and will call it a day.



not to mention the biggest whiff on backwards compatability.
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,657
Gonna go with PS this time around - the differences in performance seem to be marginal and I'm really amazed at those SSD speeds.

With that said, 800-something GB by default is pretty tiny.
 

Mifec

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,752
People expecting 399 with that SSD are in for a rude awakening. Either that or Sony plan to eat big losses
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,134
Can't wait to see some game comparisons when they launch, right now I assume XSX will have the better versions.
 
OP
OP

BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,565
USA
Please explain why Xbox Series X is "much more powerful" than PS5?

I see it as being barely more powerful, but I don't see a huge difference. Is it because of the CUs, because that's the only part that I see a noticeable difference.

The RAM must be unified, and it's between the 10GB and 6 Gb bandwidth form XSX. Is that bad?
The CPU is only .3 GHz lower than XSX. Is it because of the variable frequency that the XSX is much superior?
SDD size is lower but is much faster.

So, why people are saying that there's even a XOne X/PS4 Pro difference? I don't see it, help?
Seems like almost every thing is weaker on PS5 except the SSD speed, and the 10.2 TF is really 9.2 with variable boosts.
 

tapedeck

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,982
I think it's pretty obviously

PS5 $399
XSX $499

I'm getting both but think I'm gonna go XSX at launch. I have feeling a PS5 Pro is almost guaranteed.
 

BeI

Member
Dec 9, 2017
5,983
Can't wait to see what those fast SSDs can do for games, because PCs sure weren't making the most of fast SSDs.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,891
I personally think the benefits of the SSD speed are being overstated. At thr XSX rates you can fill the entire pool of RAM in 3 seconds with compressed data. Its 2 seconds at PS5 rates. Both are going to be more than fast enough for the streaming that games need.

Yeah, I don't think we'll see a "world of difference" or "game changing performance" based on PS5's SSD speeds. PS5 may be able to access and load data faster (who knows, really) in some scenarios.
 

Mad_Rhetoric

Banned
May 7, 2019
3,466
If Lockhart is real (and it most likely is) than Xbox will have both the most powerful console (Series X) and possibly the cheapest console (Series Lockhart). Pretty huge.
 

Boodah

Member
Nov 25, 2017
13
What I need to see in action is DirectStorage !

DirectStorage – DirectStorage is an all new I/O system designed specifically for gaming to unleash the full performance of the SSD and hardware decompression. It is one of the components that comprise the Xbox Velocity Architecture. Modern games perform asset streaming in the background to continuously load the next parts of the world while you play, and DirectStorage can reduce the CPU overhead for these I/O operations from multiple cores to taking just a small fraction of a single core; thereby freeing considerable CPU power for the game to spend on areas like better physics or more NPCs in a scene. This newest member of the DirectX family is being introduced with Xbox Series X and we plan to bring it to Windows as well.
Yup! They both have custom solutions to help alleviate bottlenecks. We need to find out more about Direct storage because it could closing the margin towards the theoretical speeds the PS5 SSD has. So ready!!
 

Jeffram

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,924
For PS5, it's just a target. You will be able to use random PCI-Express 4.0 NVMe SSDs that just happen to be this fast by the end of the year. There is absolutely nothing stopping Microsoft from shipping faster SSDs with their custom slot, but they would obviously be more expensive.
Did you watch the carney review? The whole hardware chain supports 5.5 and has a cursor prioritization layer SSD, meaning those faster SSDs need to support 7GB/s to be compatible. It's unlikely MS went with a more expensive hardware chain (decompresser, etc.) than they needed to that could support much more than what has been advertised.
 

Evan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
922
PS4 exlusives looked far superior with a 40% GPU deficit (PS4 Pro vs One X) and here the deficit is even smaller.

PS5 exclusives will look awesome, Series X exclusives will look awesome. I'd still put my money any day of the week on Sony 1st party.

I wouldn't compare how games look between the pro and X, seeing how any Xbox game was developed with the measly Xbox one in mind.

Also, what games for either console were developed with the Pro or X in mind? For Xbox all I can think of is Gears and Forza Horizon, which both look phenomenal.

Now the art direction in Sony Exclusives has been killer, so that may be what you're thinking about.
 

RobotVM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,416
LOL at the people thinking 399.99 for the PS5, a while back they said just their cost was 449.99. I think XSX is going to be $550.00 and PS5 499.99.
 

Deleted member 22750

Oct 28, 2017
13,267
Seems like almost every thing is weaker on PS5 except the SSD speed, and the 10.2 TF is really 9.2 with variable boosts.
truth

im surprised there isn't more people calling out Sony over this.
Guess it depends how often games run at the higher speed
LOL at the people thinking 399.99 for the PS5, a while back they said just their cost was 449.99. I think XSX is going to be $550.00 and PS5 499.99.
Sony should sell this at 449 imo

XSX is a better product (hardware) and I can see them going 500
 

Urgh

Banned
May 10, 2019
65
Please explain why Xbox Series X is "much more powerful" than PS5?

I see it as being barely more powerful, but I don't see a huge difference. Is it because of the CUs, because that's the only part that I see a noticeable difference.

The RAM must be unified, and it's between the 10GB and 6 Gb bandwidth form XSX. Is that bad?
The CPU is only .3 GHz lower than XSX. Is it because of the variable frequency that the XSX is much superior?
SDD size is lower but is much faster.

So, why people are saying that there's even a XOne X/PS4 Pro difference? I don't see it, help?

no-one can make you see something you have no intention of seeing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,287
Cincinnati
What if MS releases a less powerful XBX, that is equal to or slightly more powerful than PS5. At the same cost or even lower!

Also, PS5 doesn't have the XBX's greatest feature..the game resume function. Maybe they can add it in later.
Are we sure it doesn't have that? Just because they didn't talk about it here doesn't mean that, unless I missed verification of it being absent.
 

Firmus_Anguis

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,122
Those variable frequencies... What the hell, Sony? What does that mean for real-world performance? Did they blow their budget on the SSD?

Klee was full of it, it seems. The Series X is undoubtedly the more powerful console, I don't think the SSD (while amazing), will bridge the gap graphically. The SX probably has an advantage when it comes to ray tracing as well (52 vs 36 CU's is quite a difference).

It seems Sony cheapened out, which sucks. Variable frequencies, JFC...
 

BeI

Member
Dec 9, 2017
5,983
People are gonna be upset that the PS5 is a 499 machine, even if they shouldnt be.

Even if it is weaker in raw gpu power, it still has a gpu better than the current $400 gpu from AMD, and an SSD faster than $150 ones. Ps4 was similar to a $170 gpu at launch, and the HDD was probably $40 or less. I think $400 would be quite impressive.
 

Hellshy

Member
Nov 5, 2017
1,172
I mean you can try to spin it all you want, but all Sony can do is spin it as being better and hope it sticks because right now it's a really bad look.

I'm not spinning anything. Sony seems to think the ssd will make the biggest difference and designed their console around having amazing performance in that area. If it turns out to be a game changer then I'll take that over a slightly higher resolution. If games noticeably run worse on ps5 then I'll be disappointed sure. I'll own both at some point anyway
 

LebGuns

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,127
Only 10GB of fast ram for XSX? What? With everything moving to seamless open worlds, that can't be good. Disappointed with the TF of the PS5 and a bit worried about "variable frequency" but we'll have to see how it plays out.
 

EVIL

Senior Concept Artist
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,783
Isn't it 1,8TF minimum though? the 10.3 is only boost according to sony, it'll probably be lower most of the time, that paired with a slower cpu and significantly lower gddr6 bandwith will make for quite the difference no?
Both of these consoles will be so blazingly fast, the difference in multiplat titles will be for one, unnoticable. What I gather from it, XBX is brute power, and PS5 does things in a far more intelligent fashion. both will have no problem driving incredible graphics to your TV's.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,810
What parts of games would the high/fast IO throughput positively affect?
Everything that requires loading assets from the SSD, so a lot of things. This is specially important for games that rely on asset streaming (like open world games), but it also means only essential stuff needs to stay in the RAM, because if the game ever needs to load something new, it can be done incredibly fast. This results in being able to put more stuff in the game because the rotation of assets inside the RAM isn't as much of a bottleneck anymore. The example that Cerny gave of being able to unload assets that are out of the players sight because you can quickly load them again once the player turns around is pretty telling that this is the future they envisioned.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
I'm genuinely surprised, it really is SSD and I/O vs everything else for Sony this gen, the differences might not mean much in reality but it's surprising to look at the specs sheet and see Sony below on so many things.

On the other hand, I expect MS to struggle to compete price-wise, Sony might go with $399 for all we know.
 
OP
OP

BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,565
USA
Both of these consoles will be so blazingly fast, the difference in multiplat titles will be for one, unnoticable. What I gather from it, XBX is brute power, and PS5 does things in a far more intelligent fashion. both will have no problem driving incredible graphics to your TV's.
I doubt they will be identical in practice much of the time, so I'd like to see which one tends to take the objective edge in multiplatform. I'll have both systems and want to know.
 

TuMekeNZ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,278
Auckland, New Zealand
I think MS dove deeper on the XSX as I feel way more informed than I do after the Cerny belly flop. I'm in no way tech savvy and know this was for developers, but I came away feeling we only got half the story for PS5... Hoping DF release a video soon discussing what was shown and how the 2 compare.
Seems like a lot of custom stuff going in but hard to understand what it all means.
With Ray Tracing is the XSX version better?? They talked about up 25TF or something?
They way Cerny explained their version seemed a lot less custom...
 

Celine

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,030
It means that the numbers on the chart are theoretical/peak performance. It won't always be hitting those frequencies, where as the Series X numbers are locked.
I think the github leak the past December was quite on the ball, Sony listed peak performance:
www.resetera.com

Digital Foundry: PlayStation 5/ Xbox Series X New GPU Spec Leak Analysis: 9.2TF vs 12TF?

The techpower up 'leak' should have immediately stunk to people, because it contradicts things we'd expect AND things we know. Consoles don't have dedicated GPU dies, with dedicated RAM anymore. The have GPUs and CPUs on the same die, and they share memory. Anything listed dedicated VRAM for...
 

Personablue

Member
Feb 10, 2019
1,227
Sacrificing 10% GPU power for 100% more SSD bandwidth was the right choice. Games will look insane. People don't seem to understand what devs can do with that.
Actually it's more than 20% in GPU power. Also about that 100% more SSD bandwidth will most likely result in difference of fraction of seconds, so not actually appreciable.
Though i agree 1600p vs 2100p may also not be appreciable.