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Should video game remakes/reboots change the ethnicity of the main character?
- Thread starter Twenty5Thousand
- Start date
A character's ethnicity being changed for a remake. Granted, it's for the main antagonist and not the main character but it's still relevant in the context of this discussion.
Ultimately, it depends as to whether their ethnic identity was part of the game's or character narrative, to begin with. For Archie, it didn't matter.
Comic book characters being adapted and video game characters being adapted are entirely different beasts.
Video game characters literally have a lot more character to them because they are in motion or are being voiced. That alone gives them more of a defined character compared to a static image with text bubbles popping out. A lot of comic book characters get murky with their interpretation which is something that video game characters do not suffer from because the medium they are in is a lot more defined.
Also, your example pretty much falls apart with the existence of Marvel Studios Eternals. Four of the characters were gender-bent with three of the characters being race-bent in the cast. For instance, Kingo in the comics is a Japanese Eternal Samurai who's a movie star, in the MCU he's a Bollywood superstar. The spirit of the character is there but these are two entirely different characters save for the name. The obscurity of the character gives leeway to gender-bending/race-bending because the original character was known by so few people, to begin with.
What about like if they're choosing models? They might see someone who really personifies that character's personality, even if they weren't white like the classic version. That's one of the reason I'm certainly not against it.
I never really thought about how great his design is until a video brought this line of thinking up. He's everything the nazis claim to want in a person while being what they despise most.
No. Existing characters are loved because of what they are.
However feel free to create games with new characters that have diverse characteristics. Nothing against that, quite the contrary. What I am against is changing pre-existing characters or stories to fit current themes. Those themes change over the years.
However feel free to create games with new characters that have diverse characteristics. Nothing against that, quite the contrary. What I am against is changing pre-existing characters or stories to fit current themes. Those themes change over the years.
I voted no, but my real answer is "it doesn't matter as long as it doesn't feel like it is tacked on and actually feels relevant." Just like how I, as a gay man, don't want straight characters being passed off as gay just for brownie points, I would prefer more fully fleshed out and nuanced takes that value diversity rather than pay it empty lip service. I want the stories of different people, not just the stories of straight white dudes rebranded as the stories of, say, gay black people.
People also want New IPs and new stories, not just old ones with new paint. Give me a game with the chutzpah to put minorities front and center, don't hide behind existing IPs to do so.
People also want New IPs and new stories, not just old ones with new paint. Give me a game with the chutzpah to put minorities front and center, don't hide behind existing IPs to do so.
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Is this topic that different from when they adapt white movie characters with non white actors? Considering because of models used in games nowadays and motion capture too.
lol
Seems like an uninspired way to bring diversity into gaming: "we couldn't think of an original character of <ethnicity>, so we just changed the skin colour of one and voilà".
Better they create new, more diverse characters in new IPs, or even in existing IPs, without the need of changing existing characters.
Well he actually has a few lines in flashbacks of eternal and his character has been more fleshed out the last two games overall.
Would rather see more representation and diversity in video game characters, to be honest. The problem is that in narrative driven games the typical go-to is white and aggrieved in some fashion which leads to boring and uninspired narratives.
Wouldn't hurt to design experiences around characters who are culturally, ethnically and racially more interesting.
Wouldn't hurt to design experiences around characters who are culturally, ethnically and racially more interesting.
I mean in some cases yea, but they have made doomguy into a set character. It would be like changing Samus.
lol @ all the snobby "silly Americans" posts in here regarding OP's reference to Cloud as a white guy as if it's super obvious he's meant to look Asian. Unless that's a meme, or something?
> You start the character on the backfoot, because they've taken away a version of a character that people like.
> Instead of building a new character for people to like you have a version that is gone with another flick of the reset switch, never the original.
> It's treating a character's story/attributes like a hand-me-down. 'Here, we're done with this so you can have it'. Better can be done than that.
> Instead of building a new character for people to like you have a version that is gone with another flick of the reset switch, never the original.
> It's treating a character's story/attributes like a hand-me-down. 'Here, we're done with this so you can have it'. Better can be done than that.
if the issue is representation... then shoudln't he content... represent something?
Seriously, these type of questions sometimes make me real confuse... like... would it be fine if all games just randomized the look of every character when you start a new game? I mean, if it doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter... right?
Is the character a representation of the player? Then let the player represent himself. Character creator! done!
Is the Character a creation of an Author? Then let the Author create and you get to play that.
I really don't get it this feeling of "NO!! I don't want a NEW thing that is like this but better represent me or my culture. I Want THIS thing to go BACK and be CHANGED to fit what i desire..." i mean, really? That sounds so awful... it's so watered down. It completely ignores concepts of culture, history, language (both physical and verbal), and so many other things. If you just change stuff around to be different cause it doesn't matter and whatever and such then everything just becomes this homogeneous paste with no flavour...
I know the Nathan Drake / Lara Croft comparison is moot at this point... but i make a side note between Uncharted 4 and Uncharted Lost Legacy. Instead of "Nathan Drake is a woman now, cause whatever" they made a new game with it's own character. One by the way i would love to see a bigger game made around.
I just prefer more games be made with intent and passion to represent the aspects the creators want to make it shine than to just pallet swap aspects of design to try and make everybody not even happy, just not pissed...
Seriously, these type of questions sometimes make me real confuse... like... would it be fine if all games just randomized the look of every character when you start a new game? I mean, if it doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter... right?
Is the character a representation of the player? Then let the player represent himself. Character creator! done!
Is the Character a creation of an Author? Then let the Author create and you get to play that.
I really don't get it this feeling of "NO!! I don't want a NEW thing that is like this but better represent me or my culture. I Want THIS thing to go BACK and be CHANGED to fit what i desire..." i mean, really? That sounds so awful... it's so watered down. It completely ignores concepts of culture, history, language (both physical and verbal), and so many other things. If you just change stuff around to be different cause it doesn't matter and whatever and such then everything just becomes this homogeneous paste with no flavour...
I know the Nathan Drake / Lara Croft comparison is moot at this point... but i make a side note between Uncharted 4 and Uncharted Lost Legacy. Instead of "Nathan Drake is a woman now, cause whatever" they made a new game with it's own character. One by the way i would love to see a bigger game made around.
I just prefer more games be made with intent and passion to represent the aspects the creators want to make it shine than to just pallet swap aspects of design to try and make everybody not even happy, just not pissed...
if fantasy fantasy ever taught me anything, it's that everyone male identifying is a white dude and girls are asian
but anyway i digress
let devs do whatever
All of the Team Aqua admins had their ethnicity changed for the remake.
Easy "no" to me. Not because I don't want more representation (I want!), but rewriting main characters isn't the right way imo. Why can't we have original things? I believe the bad look this "revisionism" would give is bigger than any representation benefit we would get and it would serve to polarize things even more.
Most game characters could be any colour and are only white for marketing. Devs should feel free to change them to a different colour especially if it's part of telling a different story about a different version of the character.
For the most part, it would be better to just create new characters, in my opinion. But if a remake does change a character's ethnicity, that's usually fine, too. I just don't necessarily think it "should" happen as if it's a sort of mandate. That would be an extremely lazy and pat way to deal with this issue. "Here's the exact same character but he or she is a different ethnicity now, so we're good." It's way more complicated than that, and what you're proposing in the OP isn't really going to fix the problem.
I think it's a bit odd to be "ashamed" of the forum's response, because your OP and the associated poll are extremely simplistic and your argument is presented without any significant depth, evidence, examples, or discussion points to back it up. The poll that you created allows for no nuance and it's not possible for those responding to really vote in a thoughtful way. If you want better responses, adjust and strengthen the thin material that you gave people to work with.
I look at it this way:
Is the cast overwhelming white? Hell yeah, inject some diversity in there. Shake it up a bit.
Are we changing minority / women characters to white / male? Nah, let's not do that.
Is the cast overwhelming white? Hell yeah, inject some diversity in there. Shake it up a bit.
Are we changing minority / women characters to white / male? Nah, let's not do that.
So you want to have a known character of white ethnic in an updated rerelease of a known game to be presented as a black ethnic person?
hmm... not sure how people of both ethnic will take that.
Nothing against more black main characters, but i think changing the skin tone in games that are already released isn't the way.
hmm... not sure how people of both ethnic will take that.
Nothing against more black main characters, but i think changing the skin tone in games that are already released isn't the way.
I always assume anime-looking characters like Cloud are Japanese unless ethnicity is otherwise specified (like in Attack on Titan or Fullmetal Alchemist). Anyways, if you're adapting to a new medium (like comics to film), sure why not, you're establishing a "new" version. So in a reboot of a game series, go nuts. If it's a remake, I'd rather they keep the characters the same because it's supposed to be the same as the original, if that makes sense.
I'd rather have a new character.
Ethnicities aren't just plug and play. Ideally if a new(or old) franchise decides to add a black character some actual thought goes into how he'd be characterized/voiced. Rather than just taking a character who's already established and just turning a filter on.
But then I'm a weird guy. While I appreciate having characters look like me I don't absolutely need it. Poorly done stereotypes or cynical black rep is worse than none at all.
Ethnicities aren't just plug and play. Ideally if a new(or old) franchise decides to add a black character some actual thought goes into how he'd be characterized/voiced. Rather than just taking a character who's already established and just turning a filter on.
But then I'm a weird guy. While I appreciate having characters look like me I don't absolutely need it. Poorly done stereotypes or cynical black rep is worse than none at all.
I didn't vote because this is a more complex issue than just yes, or no. I personally do not believe set characters should be changed at all, but I have no problem with expression though rebooting or re-contextualization. Using comics as an example there are multiple spider-men who all more or less embody the principles of virtuism of the original but are distinct personally (and ethnically in some cases).
Piggybacking on established properties doesn't solve the root affliction.
Piggybacking on established properties doesn't solve the root affliction.
I don't know why they SHOULD, but I'm not bothered if they do.
More representation for groups other than white dudes is always welcome.
More representation for groups other than white dudes is always welcome.
I mean... is there any reason to change those ethnicities? If they are based on existing characters and there is no reason to change their ethnicities other than simply doing it for the sake of doing it... i don't see the point. Thats Disney-level "progressivism" and serves no one. That being said, I'm not gonna protest if somebody makes changes that don't affect the artist's intent.
If we are talking about old sprite art getting remade or something and the original sprites were limited in their portrayals, i could see you making a case.
If we are talking about old sprite art getting remade or something and the original sprites were limited in their portrayals, i could see you making a case.
Sure! Why not? Besides, straight white dudes are boring and have plenty of representation. Let's shake things up.
Characters drawn in anime art styles tend to be racially ambiguous so complaining that an anime character is white isn't the best start to a thread asking for more diversity.
Agree on both accounts, but it would be awesome for another surprising Metroid reveal on the level of the original game's ending—have it turn out you were playing as another woman the whole time, and Samus is missing, or you're playing as a protege of Samus far in the future, and then there are playable segments in the past that join the two
Though I would ultimately prefer changes of character ethnicity in reboots to diversify long-running series' casts since they have mostly white/anglo-coded protagonists.
Stuff like The Legend of Zelda would've been better over time with much more different incarnations of the main characters imo, if only to drive home the series theme of "a hero can be anyone"
Both should happen more to better pave the way. For example, there should be nothing sacrosanct about Link being white/blonde/male/etc. but there are people who feel it is because of that's the way it's always been—there was even pushback against BotW Link's default outfit not being a green tunic.
if there was a new Zelda game with a new incarnation of Link, making them far different from past Links would be the best bet.
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Hm it's a tough question I think. If a character looks in a certain way, the thought of changing ethnicity in a remake probably doesn't even occur to many devs because they're just focused on recreating the character to be modern without changing any of their traits. I can see why people might shy away from the idea because it is a significant change. Like making Clouds hair black, or instead giving him straight long hair, people would complain just like they'd complain with a skin colour change, less because they don't like him being a different ethnicity, but more so that he's different in general. I think you're always going to have issues with changing a main character like that. Doubt people would mind with side characters, but then at that point making such a change limited to just a side character comes across as tick box kinda thing,
I would think I would be open to it, but I can't really imagine many instances where I wouldn't be disappointed they changed the character. Some of these characters are 20-30+ year iconic mascots, hard to blame people being against change. I think if you do something like Spider-Man did with Miles and makes it kind of a soft-reboot cross sequel that'd work quite well. That said, I'm not a person of colour. I'd be interested to see how many people of colour would actually be happy with a characters design being changed? Because I can't imagine many of my friends being big on it at least.
I would think I would be open to it, but I can't really imagine many instances where I wouldn't be disappointed they changed the character. Some of these characters are 20-30+ year iconic mascots, hard to blame people being against change. I think if you do something like Spider-Man did with Miles and makes it kind of a soft-reboot cross sequel that'd work quite well. That said, I'm not a person of colour. I'd be interested to see how many people of colour would actually be happy with a characters design being changed? Because I can't imagine many of my friends being big on it at least.
Hitman can easily have bald black guy, bald Asian guy, bald Hispanic guy. The character is the definition of generic and easily switchable. A lot of games can and should be able to do this easily.
I think it would be harder for more iconic look characters like Leon. If you showed me black Leon, my first thought would be that its a new character unless you say its Leon.
I think it would be harder for more iconic look characters like Leon. If you showed me black Leon, my first thought would be that its a new character unless you say its Leon.
Should they, no. Could they? Maybe. But I'd say if they want a more diverse cast, write some new and interesting characters then. If you can't write an original, interesting character to add some diversity that might appeal to other people and you instead need to recycle an old character, doesn't sound like the best start to me.
They should stay the same. Remember how Sgt. Johnson in Halo kept getting whiter as the sequels/remasters went on? That was super weird. Keep them like they are for consistency's sake and create new characters in the sequels/prequels.
I ain't voting. I have no issue with it and anything for a more diverse range of ethnicities the better in most cases.
It would be a clever twist but I could also see this make people turn against the character because everyone was looking forward to play as Samus. Same thing that happened to Raiden in MGS2. It's basically an extra uphill battle for the new character
I don't necessarily think they SHOULD, but they certainly COULD do it more often.
Most games/media, the character's ethnicity or gender doesn't really matter. It wouldn't make a lick of difference if Peter Parker was a woman, or black, or latino, etc. Trevor from GTA V could be the same if he wasn't a white guy, so long as they've got the "essence" of the character.
Obviously this changes in certain stories... Like, Lincoln Clay being a black Vietnam vet is intrinsic to what makes Mafia 3 work. Niko being a foreigner is very important to GTA IV, but it wouldn't super matter if the character was male or female.
But if characters change at all like people have said in this thread, the "Gamers" of the world would freak out and swat and bomb threat devs and that sucks. :/
Most games/media, the character's ethnicity or gender doesn't really matter. It wouldn't make a lick of difference if Peter Parker was a woman, or black, or latino, etc. Trevor from GTA V could be the same if he wasn't a white guy, so long as they've got the "essence" of the character.
Obviously this changes in certain stories... Like, Lincoln Clay being a black Vietnam vet is intrinsic to what makes Mafia 3 work. Niko being a foreigner is very important to GTA IV, but it wouldn't super matter if the character was male or female.
But if characters change at all like people have said in this thread, the "Gamers" of the world would freak out and swat and bomb threat devs and that sucks. :/
Agreed with others that "should" is just a leading question. "Could" is a lot better.
I'm not a big fan of just swapping existing characters, including gender swaps. I think I'm in the minority here but for example I don't want a female Link (I'd rather have a playable Zelda, and not as a side-character either -- but a full Zelda game featuring only Zelda, dammit).
Some of the examples in the OP aren't great either. Opening your list with BJ, who is Jewish and whose physical appearance is a major plot point of the new games, really? And Cloud being ambiguous.
I'm not a big fan of just swapping existing characters, including gender swaps. I think I'm in the minority here but for example I don't want a female Link (I'd rather have a playable Zelda, and not as a side-character either -- but a full Zelda game featuring only Zelda, dammit).
Some of the examples in the OP aren't great either. Opening your list with BJ, who is Jewish and whose physical appearance is a major plot point of the new games, really? And Cloud being ambiguous.
Yeah, I think that's where I'm at. For reboots and adaptations, especially with ensemble casts, injecting some diversity can't hurt for sure. Overall I think new characters probably do better for representation in general.
That fanart is incredible! Thanks for posting.Here's some Metroid fan art by user Pehesse from the old site:
I don't think so. Why change classic and established characters? I think there absolutely 100% should be more diversity with people of color/sexuality across gaming , but I don't believe in changing existing characters
I'd take this in a reboot if it also meant getting rid of Zero Suit Samus. You know, that characterization that basically turned badass Samus into weeb's delight Samus.Here's some Metroid fan art by user Pehesse from the old site:
I don't think the zero suit will really be seen for awhile again outside of end game screens. In samus returns that was it. It seems like Sakamoto wanted to really lean back from where things got in other m.