Should Sony be worried about their decreasing sales in Japan?

Jiggy · Jun 19, 2020

cvxfreak said:
Hilarious to see people say Japan is irrelevant as a market when Switch is on track to sell around 25 million units there, which if achieved would be a record for any home console and second only to the DS for handheld devices.

Going back to the PS3 vs 360, the only reason the PS3 came out ahead in the event by a 3-4 million units was because the PS3 outsold 360 in Japan by 9 million units.

In the present day, that Sony and Microsoft have failed to appeal to this large market isn't Japan's fault at all.

The Switch doubles as a portable. Look at dedicated home console sales in Japan over the last 15 years:

Wii: 12m
PS3: 10m
PS4: 9m
WiiU: 4m

There's very clearly a ceiling for consoles in Japan. How do you expect Sony and Microsoft to change the gaming interests of an entire nation? Not even the last two Nintendo consoles lit the charts on fire. There's probably around 10 million consumers in Japan still interested in blockbuster console gaming and that's who Sony (and slightly MS) will keep targeting.

AquaWateria · Jun 19, 2020

Also I feel like for Japanese Developers mostly the mid to small ones need to move from exclusivity to multiplatform releases.

jfkgoblue · Jun 19, 2020

SinCItyAssassin said:
If you look at it, it's basically taken over everyone's sales.

PC Gaming has actually risen a bit dramatically in the last two years in Japan. Still not large, but it's not insignificant anymore to add a PC release in the region.

What do you mean? Home console sales in Japan have been shit since the PS2. Handheld sales haven't.

NSESN · Jun 19, 2020

Rosebud said:
Btw, Japanese companies want to sell games in the west too, so support will be the same.

The thing is that switch sells well in both the west and japan, and, from what we have seen, multiplats that launch on both sells better on it than PS4 in the west

cvxfreak · Jun 19, 2020

Jiggy said:
The Switch doubles as a portable. Look at dedicated home console sales in Japan over the last 15 years:

Wii: 12m
PS3: 10m
PS4: 9m
WiiU: 4m

There's very clearly a ceiling for consoles in Japan. How do you expect Sony and Microsoft to change the gaming interests of an entire nation? Not even the last two Nintendo consoles lit the charts on fire. There's probably around 10 million consumers in Japan still interested in blockbuster console gaming and that's who Sony (and slightly MS) will keep targeting.

I don't think this is a complete explanation of the phenomenon. The OG Switch, despite its historically high pricing for the handheld realm, is handily outselling the Switch Lite, which itself seems to have only gotten a second windfall recently after muted sales due to shortages of said OG model.

The Switch has a shot at becoming the best selling game hardware globally (i.e., above PS4) because it's doing phenomenal numbers everywhere INCLUDING Japan.

Squall ASF · Jun 19, 2020

I agree with the sentiment that the Japan player base is pretty much a lost cause anyway as they've really migrated to mobile the latter half of this generation. There's a reason Nintendo did what they did with the Switch. The west is where most Japanese developed games sell these days. Microsoft hasn't ever made ground there and that's the only company Sony is competing with so while you never want to lose business, they'll be just fine.

mute · Jun 19, 2020

Players in Japan have largely moved on and Sony has as well. They are probably content with whatever sales they can get.

Rosebud · Jun 20, 2020

NSESN said:
The thing is that switch sells well in both the west and japan, and, from what we have seen, multiplats that launch on both sells better on it than PS4 in the west

Japanese games on PS4 are selling better than ever. Look at MHW, Persona, Yakuza...

FIREKNIGHT2029 · Jun 20, 2020

Nope.

MoonFrog · Jun 20, 2020

No. They don't need to.

I wish they would find a way to appeal to Japan. The Japanese industry puts PS consoles first even when Nintendo is a success domestically and abroad. It'd be better if they could target and expand in the domestic market again while pursuing that strategy.

But they won't do this. And yes they could. Nintendo regularly defeats the fatalism about the Japanese market--both as a hardware and as a software producer. Other companies could do it.

Ozzie666 · Jun 20, 2020

Don't think they have to worry about actual console sales too much in japan, they've been consistently low. They need to make sure to keep the big publishers and developers on board, more than anything. Sony's goals are aligned with most big publisher in japan. They all want world wide success, but they want the big sales market outside of japan. Cash speaks. Playstation brand is so strong and stable, at least for now.

Samanosuke Akechi · Jun 20, 2020

By building the PS5, Sony has effectively exited the Japanese console market as the console is now roughly half the size of the average Japanese apartment.

manuvlad · Jun 20, 2020

If I'm not mistaken, PS4 was the fastest console to reach the 100 million units sold. And it was able to do that with a 299 dollars price tag (PS2 was priced at 99 dollars when reached this milestone, again, If I'm not mistaken). So, the only thing that they need to be worried about is how to sustain this level of success.

NSESN · Jun 20, 2020

Rosebud said:
Japanese games on PS4 are selling better than ever. Look at MHW, Persona, Yakuza...

I am talking about games that release on both, those didnt

Zippo · Jun 20, 2020

Not much they can do about it. Consoles are dying in Japan. Switch is what they want, not 500+ dollar monoliths.

LordBlodgett · Jun 20, 2020

Thanathorn said:
First I've heard of Xcloud success in Korea. Curious if there's any more information on that.

Here's the article probably being referenced about Korea: https://www.trueachievements.com/n40417/project-xcloud-south-korea

ACL · Jun 20, 2020

They can do quite a lot actually, as a big corporation with a very profitable console business, they could afford expanding their IP portfolio and grow their Japanese development division to offer Games that also appeal to the Japanese gaming market. Which as seen with several Nintendo Games, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts and Monster Hunter doesn't have to be to the detriment to overseas markets.

AfropunkNyc · Jun 20, 2020

Japan isnt sony town anymore.

Oregano · Jun 20, 2020

UnapologeticallyBLK said:
Wrong. A large part of that is sales in the US and EU.

Japan is nice, but it's a relatively small market at this point.

Japan represents a massive chunk of Nintendo's business and their worldwide success relies on being successful in Japan too. Animal Crossing can sell 11m copies in 10 days because it sold ~3.5m in Japan in addition to being a bit hit in US and Europe.

Anth0ny said:
the japan market has gone to hell because it's gone to hell

this week hardware sales:

Code:

+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+ |System | This Week | Last Week | Last Year | YTD | Last YTD | LTD | +-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+ | NSW # | 55.187 | 68.192 | 34.321 | 2.494.655 | 1.395.638 | 13.878.086 | | PS4 # | 9.283 | 21.291 | 28.762 | 415.167 | 612.721 | 9.163.410 | | 3DS # | 1.004 | 1.180 | 2.768 | 31.244 | 125.270 | 24.527.391 | | XB1 # | 104 | 37 | 341 | 2.613 | 3.321 | 113.859 | +-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+ | ALL | 65.578 | 90.700 | 66.331 | 2.943.679 | 2.172.415 | 47.682.746 | +-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+ | NSW L | 16.502 | 19.183 | | 1.256.979 | | 2.302.362 | | NSW | 38.685 | 49.009 | 34.321 | 1.237.676 | 1.395.638 | 11.575.724 | | XB1 X | 90 | 22 | 224 | 1.888 | 2.265 | 20.530 | | XB1 S | 14 | 15 | 117 | 725 | 1.056 | 21.327 | |PS4 Pro| 5.381 | 5.590 | 10.026 | 156.181 | 218.792 | 1.551.151 | | PS4 | 3.902 | 15.701 | 18.736 | 258.986 | 393.929 | 7.612.259 | |n-2DSLL| 920 | 1.122 | 2.254 | 29.399 | 100.028 | 1.133.645 | | n-3DS | 84 | 58 | 514 | 1.845 | 24.151 | 5.887.760 | +-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+

this week 10 years ago hardware sales:

Code:

__________________________________________________________________ |System | This Week | Last Week | YTD | LTD | ------------------------------------------------------------------ | NDS | 53.523 | 24.418 | 1.059.758 | 30.338.838 | | PSP | 21.766 | 22.380 | 1.051.855 | 14.794.943 | | WII | 19.045 | 20.588 | 777.866 | 10.383.065 | | PS3 | 17.175 | 17.676 | 716.670 | 5.218.037 | | 360 | 2.060 | 3.225 | 81.296 | 1.290.968 | | PS2 | 1.568 | 1.291 | 42.248 | 21.652.425 | ------------------------------------------------------------------ | DSiLL | 30.183 | 11.138 | 553.779 | 1.060.686 | | DSi | 18.214 | 10.172 | 399.806 | 4.738.752 | | DSL | 5.126 | 3.108 | 106.173 | 17.953.929 | ------------------------------------------------------------------ | PSP | 20.929 | 21.662 | 1.015.963 | 14.683.296 | | PSPgo | 837 | 718 | 35.892 | 111.647 | ------------------------------------------------------------------

of course this isn't a 1:1 comparison, 10 years ago the DS is 6 years into its life while the Switch is currently 3 years in, PS3 was 4 years old while PS4 is 7, but broadly speaking:

Switch has basically taken the spot of of the DS, and is doing exceedingly well. But the PS4 is well below what PS3 was doing, week in and week out, AND it had a far stronger library + lower price for its entire life. We see how dominant the PS4 has been around the world, far better than the PS3, yet that hasn't translated to Japan for whatever reason, despite some of its best games traditionally doing well in Japan. Your Personas, Final Fantasies, Monster Hunters, Resident Evils, Dragon Quest... list goes on.

Sony is out of the handheld game, so there is no modern day replacement for PSP. In theory, such interest would boost Switch sales.

What was once a two pronged approach with a console and a handheld from Nintendo is now combined into one with the Switch. Again, in theory, that should boost Switch sales.

So we have the Switch kicking ass, and... ? Switch certainly isn't making up for the lack of a Sony handheld, or the lack of a separate, second Nintendo machine. Or an underperforming Sony home console.

Maybe "gone to hell" was a bit strong, but it's down in every sense outside of Nintendo and their first party output.

Japan simply doesn't have a great interest in home consoles anymore, and PS5 won't change that. More so than ever, people are fine with just a portable experience, whether that be the Switch or mobile games.

Do the same comparison for the US or Europe and you'll see that numbers have shrunk massively. If you've seen the NPD threads recently pretty much every comment on Switch is "best since 2010" or "best since DS" because the overall market has shrunk, PS4 is the only console outperforming its predecessor(and now Switch).

Combichristoffersen · Jun 20, 2020

DangerMouse said:
Internally they also did Gravity Rush 2 and The Last Guardian this gen (along with those two Knack games). Gravity Rush Remastered was Bluepoint with seemingly some assistance.
Yeah, they had a bunch of co-production assistance with other studios this gen like Bloodborne, Everybody's Golf, Deracine VR, and No Heroes Allowed VR along with a few others.

Thanks!

Omnistalgic said:
Simple...they need to make a portable device...

Yes, that would surely be boratgreatsuccess.jpg outside Japan. The Vita did wonders.

Samanosuke Akechi said:
By building the PS5, Sony has effectively exited the Japanese console market as the console is now roughly half the size of the average Japanese apartment.

I did the math, and the PS5 is so large it'd allow for an average Japanese family to live inside it. So it doubles as both home console and console home! Sony going the Nintendo route and making a dual-use console.

Omnistalgic · Jun 20, 2020

Combichristoffersen said:
Thanks!

Yes, that would surely be boratgreatsuccess.jpg outside Japan. The Vita did wonders.

I did the math, and the PS5 is so large it'd allow for an average Japanese family to live inside it. So it doubles as both home console and console home! Sony going the Nintendo route and making a dual-use console.

Psp2 and make it cheap...

Combichristoffersen · Jun 20, 2020

Omnistalgic said:
Psp2 and make it cheap...

I think Sony's conceded the portable device market to Nintendo. I could see them opening up PS Now for mobiles and tablets though.

fiendcode · Jun 20, 2020

As expected I see tons of posts in here claiming it's not PlayStation declining that's the issue but Japan itself being somehow irrelevant and that the 2-decade-old rise of mobile is suddenly supplanting everything. Meanwhile in reality the only nation that sells more videogame consoles (and more importantly console games) than Japan is the US.

thematic · Jun 20, 2020

PS4 Portable!!
same library as PS4 with handheld design

i think Sony already "given up" with Japanese market since PS3
they rarely release any JRPG since then (maybe since WKC2?) and focus more on Action games and western developers

Kromeo · Jun 20, 2020

fiendcode said:
As expected I see tons of posts in here claiming it's not PlayStation declining that's the issue but Japan itself being somehow irrelevant and that the 2-decade-old rise of mobile is suddenly supplanting everything. Meanwhile in reality the only nation that sells more videogame consoles (and more importantly console games) than Japan is the US.

Per population they've long since dropped behind a lot of European countries, and console sales in Japan now are mostly the Switch

fiendcode · Jun 20, 2020

Kromeo said:
Per population they've long since dropped behind a lot of European countries, and console sales in Japan now are mostly the Switch

Er, no, you have that backwards. By population/household Japan is ahead of every major EU nation and even the US actually.

TechnicPuppet · Jun 20, 2020

I can't tell if people here just have no business sense or if their loyalties blind them.

Worried is the wrong word but they will be under a lot of internal pressure to hit their sales targets in the area. It's strategically important and sales in a different area will not in any way mean Japan becomes less important to them.

Kromeo · Jun 20, 2020

fiendcode said:
Er, no, you have that backwards. By population/household Japan is ahead of every major EU nation and even the US actually.

Hmm there was a thread a while back, I'm not a 100% sure whether it was console sales or general gaming spend but it had Japan below the UK, Germany and France. Maybe I'm misremembering ehat it was about. Either way, even if Sony made another handheld I don't think Japan would buy it in large numbers

Deleted member 49535 · Jun 20, 2020

Stellar said:
I'm not really sure how you're asking this when Sony just had its most profitable generation in PlayStation history despite selling the fewest amount of units in Japan yet.

Media Create threads probably.

denseWorm · Jun 20, 2020

I don't think it's likely to stay that way when Sony bring out something new. One look in second hand stores show that the most popular thing in Japanese gaming right now is the Switch, but they have huge shelves full of PS games from all generations. These shelves are stocked in proportion by things that are deemed to sell, not by things that everyone wants to get rid of.

When PS5 comes out, the colossal Japanese middle class market will chow down. There's no doubt in my mind. There are heaps of exclusive game series here that are hugely popular but aren't mentioned overseas - their baseball game series, "pro yaku spirits" , still has annual releases on ps Vita for Pete's sake~

I can't predict the future of all this stuff, I'm no economics professor, but from what i see here, i think the next big gaming thing will be jumped on, and that's going to be the PS5.

KastuśKalinoŭski · Jun 20, 2020

Japan is irrelevant on global scale. Even if you subtract JP sales completely, PS4 still will be >100M seller.

In 90s Japan was one of the biggest (if not the biggest) market for video games. Not anymore.
They're far behind US now and these days much more closer to countries like Germany, rather than US.

Triggerhappytel · Jun 20, 2020

mnz said:
How much of their revenue is even still coming from Japan? I heard something along the line of 10% at some point, not sure if that was Playstation.
And they have moved a lot of things, like hardware dev, to the west, so that explains it.

I thought Cerny was chief architect for the PS5 (and PS4) and that he basically worked with a team inside Sony Japan?

KastuśKalinoŭski · Jun 20, 2020

Triggerhappytel said:
I thought Cerny was chief architect for the PS5 (and PS4) and that he basically worked with a team inside Sony Japan?

That's correct.

PS4 HW/design team

PS5

Eric Lempel: I'll give you a little story. Many months ago, I was in Tokyo. I got an invite to a meeting with Jim Ryan, our President [and CEO], and a bunch of other people. Pretty small group. And it was on a floor in the Sony headquarters building that I'd never been to before. The subject of the meeting was, "design." So I thought I was going to a design meeting. And I got to this floor, and… there were a few doors you had to get through… you finally end up in this mini vault, a walk-in vault type of thing. There are these nice lights up above shining down. And there it was. Everything you saw today… PlayStation 5 was there, both units. The whole line of peripherals.

Play Has No Limits: Digging deeper into yesterday’s PS5 announcements

Get more insight into yesterday's PS5 announcements from Eric Lempel, PlayStation's Head of Global Marketing and Consumer Experience.

blog.playstation.com

fiendcode · Jun 20, 2020

KastuśKalinoŭski said:
Japan is irrelevant on global scale. Even if you subtract JP sales completely, PS4 still will be >100M seller.

In 90s Japan was one of the biggest (if not the biggest) market for video games. Not anymore.
They're far behind US now and these days much more closer to countries like Germany, rather than US.

Again, the US is the only nation with a larger console market than Japan. And it was bigger in the 90s too.

SinCityAssassin · Jun 20, 2020

KastuśKalinoŭski said:
Japan is irrelevant on global scale. Even if you subtract JP sales completely, PS4 still will be >100M seller.

In 90s Japan was one of the biggest (if not the biggest) market for video games. Not anymore.
They're far behind US now and these days much more closer to countries like Germany, rather than US.

By that logic Germany is less relevant than Japan, UK is less relevant than Japan, other places like the Middle East or India are less relevant than Japan. Japan's market is still second (distant though as it may be) to the US in terms of a country's market size when it comes to PS4 sales.

Vault · Jun 20, 2020

Luckily they finally realized Europe > Japan and started to treat us right.

Europe and the US are huge markets that have very similar tastes in games

They are just following the money

Devilgunman · Jun 20, 2020

Sony won't abandon Japanese market but their focus is clearly making a console that is attractive to the widest audiences. PS4 is a massive success despite lackluster performance in Japan so they must have done something right. No point for them to change their strategy now.

KastuśKalinoŭski · Jun 20, 2020

fiendcode said:
Again, the US is the only nation with a larger console market than Japan.

As video game console market Japan was bigger than US in 90s.
Now Japan is far behind US, and even countries like Germany is catching up fast. Japan definitely will lose 2nd place in foreseeable future.

I mean look, Sony can easily survive decline in Japan, because their business growing everywhere - Germany, Russia, Poland, Brazil, Middle-east, etc.

silva1991 · Jun 20, 2020

That's Japan's problem, not Sony. PS4 has almost every major Japanese games under the sun including DQ and Monster hunter and it's not helping much. What else can they do? PS5 could launch with new MH, DQ and new Final Fantasy and it wouldn't matter much there.

KastuśKalinoŭski · Jun 20, 2020

SinCItyAssassin said:
By that logic Germany is less relevant than Japan, UK is less relevant than Japan, other places like the Middle East or India are less relevant than Japan. Japan's market is still second (distant though as it may be) to the US in terms of a country's market size when it comes to PS4 sales.

The thing is nobody creates threads specifically about Germany. Imagine thread like this - "Should Sony be worried about their decreasing sales in Germany?".

That's why people should stop focusing just on Japan, it's not very important country anymore.

SinCityAssassin · Jun 20, 2020

KastuśKalinoŭski said:
The thing is nobody creates threads specifically about Germany. Imagine thread like this - "Should Sony be worried about their decreasing sales in Germany?".

That's why people should stop focusing just on Japan, it's not very important country anymore.

Well is it decreasing?

Oregano · Jun 20, 2020

silva1991 said:
That's Japan's problem, not Sony. PS4 has almost every major Japanese games under the sun including DQ and Monster hunter and it's not helping much. What else can they do? PS5 could launch with new MH, DQ and new Final Fantasy and it wouldn't matter much there.

I'm definitely not saying they should but they could produce their content aimed at Japan(and worldwide) instead of putting the expectation on third parties to sell their console for them.

KtSlime · Jun 20, 2020

I'm pretty sure if a company's product is having a hard time penetrating a market, it's usually considered the company at fault, not the market.

Nanashrew · Jun 20, 2020

Sega failed at penetrating the US market with the Sega Master System. Clearly the US is the problem.

SinCityAssassin · Jun 20, 2020

Like the intent of the conversation isn't "how much should Sony pay attention to the Japanese market and sacrifice what they have going everywhere else". It's "should they worry that the market they once dominated doesn't consider their consoles THAT important anymore and is there any unique solution to fixing it."

Nanashrew · Jun 20, 2020

SinCItyAssassin said:
Like the intent of the conversation isn't "how much should Sony pay attention to the Japanese market and sacrifice what they have going everywhere else". It's "should they worry that the market they once dominated doesn't consider their consoles THAT important anymore and is there any unique solution to fixing it."

Yep.

fiendcode · Jun 20, 2020

KastuśKalinoŭski said:
As video game console market Japan was bigger than US in 90s.
Now Japan is far behind US, and even countries like Germany is catching up fast. Japan definitely will lose 2nd place in foreseeable future.

I mean look, Sony can easily survive decline in Japan, because their business growing everywhere - Germany, Russia, Poland, Brazil, Middle-east, etc.

You're wrong. Japan has never had a larger console market than the US, even during The Crash. Even in the 90s the US was substantially larger.

And no, the EU nations aren't close to Japan or "catching up fast" really either. In what EU nation has a console sold 25m in the past decade?

Metallix87 · Jun 20, 2020

Sony likely cares a little bit, but probably not too much. Smaller-to-medium tier Japanese developers who are reliant on Japanese sales and audiences will move to Switch and mobile, and away from PlayStation.

KastuśKalinoŭski · Jun 20, 2020

fiendcode said:
You're wrong. Japan has never had a larger console market than the US, even during The Crash. Even in the 90s the US was substantially larger.

And no, the EU nations aren't close to Japan or "catching up fast" really either. In what EU nation has a console sold 25m in the past decade?

Zaki2407 · Jun 20, 2020

I think Sony will be fine. Playstation is a global brand and Sony knows it. They are not targeting specially to dominate one region only.
Info from this site suggest that from 110 million PS4 sold, only 9 million come from Japan. That's is only 8%.
Funny thing is if you erase Japan from the sale's report, PS4 still sold more than 100 million units worldwide.
The big question is how will Sony maintain the sales come next gen.

Should Sony be worried about their decreasing sales in Japan?

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