Should Sony be worried about their decreasing sales in Japan?

DoradoWinston · Jun 19, 2020

If they don't plan to bring PSNow to mobile then maybe?

Japan is less and less a console market as time goes by, switch has found success because it's also a handheld

waugh · Jun 19, 2020

I don't think cloud gaming will make much of an impact in Japan. If the huge success of mobile gaming in Japan has taught me anything its that the Japanese public just aren't as into traditional games anymore. Look at the big mobile games and you'll see they are all gatcha games. Granblue Fantasy one of the most successful games is a watered down diet version of an RPG and it's fucking huge. People don't care anymore, all they want is pretty anime portraits with their favourite voice actors and that's it. It's so depressing.

This is why targeting the west is so integral in keeping these traditional Japanese games going and for that Sony is the king. Playstation 5 will get plenty of Japanese games, they just won't be targeted at Japanese audiences anymore. Or at least not 100%.

Chief Malik · Jun 19, 2020

DoradoWinston said:
If they don't plan to bring PSNow to mobile then maybe?

They 1000000000000000000% do

Segafreak · Jun 19, 2020

It hasn't been a huge 20M market anymore since PS2 but it's still the 2nd biggest market after America, bigger than the UK, Germany and France. Nipponese publishers also use the console as the default system to release their games globally. For these reasons it will continue being important.

If PS4 wasn't selling 110M consoles worldwide they would probably try harder in their home country though.

Quellyford said:
Also brings up Project xCloud from Xbox. Microsoft always struggled in Japan, but considering that Japan are moving towards mobile and less towards consoles, I'm curious if Microsoft finally grabs a foothold. I know xCloud has been very successful in Korea.

Sony should not be worried, but I do think if Japan continues this trend, they'll have to find a way to be more relevant in mobile.

Nippon has already gone fully mobile a decade ago, it's not a process that's still ongoing. If anything home consoles are due for a comeback if work from home takes a foothold.

waugh said:
I don't think cloud gaming will make much of an impact in Japan. If the huge success of mobile gaming in Japan has taught me anything its that the Japanese public just aren't as into traditional games anymore. Look at the big mobile games and you'll see they are all gatcha games. Granblue Fantasy one of the most successful games is a watered down diet version of an RPG and it's fucking huge. People don't care anymore, all they want is pretty anime portraits with their favourite voice actors and that's it. It's so depressing.

This is why targeting the west is so integral in keeping these traditional Japanese games going and for that Sony is the king. Playstation 5 will get plenty of Japanese games, they just won't be targeted at Japanese audiences anymore. Or at least not 100%.

Exactly, and most Nipponese publishers have figured out there's a big appetite for traditional games in the West without Westernizing them or making them gatcha.

Soapbox Killer · Jun 19, 2020

Oregano said:
They pretty much already are.

Mory Dunz said:
they already are.
Certain studios should be worried, especially those that get a large percentage of their sales in Japan.

Are you guys talking about XBOX?

Dragoon · Jun 19, 2020

Releasing a stanalone DualSense Pro controller that works like a Switch/Vita to play games on the go would help. Something that you still use the PS5 to power it up but the mini-screen/controller can work anywhere. I don't say this because it would increase sales in Japan because it would, but mostly for me.

Horror · Jun 19, 2020

Anth0ny said:
Japanese market has completely gone to hell. A traditional console can't compete with the Switch at all. PS4 was down from PS3, which is already baffling, and PS5 will certainly be down from PS4.

to get an idea of how bad it is, Final Fantasy VII Remake is just about the most attractive Playstation game possible for the Japanese market. It is already out of the top 10 highest selling games of the week, and has yet to crack a million copies sold in Japan. The entirely of that top 10 consists of Switch games, including games like Splatoon 2, a 2017 release still going strong.

Japan market has gone to hell because they don't prefer or play the same games you play?

Magio · Jun 19, 2020

There's nothing to worry about because there's nothing to do about it. The market for home consoles there has been dwindling for a long time, and short of tailoring the PS5 exclusively for the Japanese market there's nothing to be done.

And I'm also fairly confident that things won't get much worse at least. There's still a decently sized market that wants to play the next FF and stuff like that and spoiler alert: they're not buying an Xbox to do it.

To get better, it woule need Japanese gamers to start getting into western productions more than they currently do.

Procheno · Jun 19, 2020

You can tell who visits the Media Create threads regularly and who doesn't

srtrestre · Jun 19, 2020

Horror said:
Japan market has gone to hell because they don't prefer or play the same games you play?

Yup. Way they describe it sounds more like heaven to me.

RedHeat · Jun 19, 2020

Eh.... Nah, don't think so. PlayStation is a more "worldwide" brand now (heck, they even moved their HQ to America), but I think it wouldn't be a good look for them if the market at their home country eventually shrinked to nil.

Kerotan · Jun 19, 2020

Japanese profits must have sky rocketed vs last gen with ps3. I'd say ps5 will be very profitable too.

asd202 · Jun 19, 2020

I predict it will be bad like half of PS4 sales bad.

Oregano · Jun 19, 2020

Soapbox Killer said:
Are you guys talking about XBOX?

No, I was largely referring to PS4. It's domestic sales are not bad, they're okay, but you've only seen some series like Resident Evil lose well over half of their sales and it's made no difference, because the worldwide sales are just as high as they ever were(if not higher).

Deleted member 12352 · Jun 19, 2020

Looking at how the PS4 has sold WW with pretty much no significant market presence in Japan compared to the PS3 I really don't see why they would be.

Personally... more than anything, I'm actually kind of worried about what a Mobile/Switch only gaming market is going to mean for Japan based/dependent developers in the long term.

Nanashrew · Jun 19, 2020

Pancracio17 said:
Their worldwide sales more than make up for that. At worst there will be less incentive for smaller JP devs to make PS games.

Already happening. You can count on one hand how many studios that have not yet gone multiplatform and still remain exclusive to Playstation. Most recognize the troubled waters.

Pancakes R Us · Jun 19, 2020

DGenerator said:
Sony just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but size and dimensions are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being a fridge-sized console. If your console is too big in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about the size, is not going to want to purchase the PS5, nor will they purchase any of Sony's games. This console is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Sony has alienated an entire market with this move.

Sony, publicly apologize and cancel the PS5 or you can kiss your business goodbye.

Hah. This made me chuckle. Good times.

On topic, I don't think it really matters. Let's face it, PS4's sales numbers in JPN are tiny compared to the rest of the world. Japan is becoming less relevant for them as each year passes.

AquaWateria · Jun 19, 2020

I'm confused when people say the Japanese market is irrelevant when it comes to games, like wut.

Persona, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, Tales, a bunch of Nintendo IPs, and other games I'm missing as well are games that rely on Japan for sales.

The western market is definitely important, but I would also argue that Japan is an important market as well for Japanese developers.

It's a reason why the Switch is eating so much.

Deleted member 27995 · Jun 19, 2020

Price is an issue. The PS4 never really dropped below 29,980 yen and games can cost $70-80. I think there would be a big-ger market for PS if they were able to drop the price through a super slim and lots more greatest hit titles.

Combichristoffersen · Jun 19, 2020

AquaWateria said:
I'm confused when people say the Japanese market is irrelevant when it comes to games, like wut.

It's not irrelevant to games, but it's irrelevant for home consoles. Sony's bread and butter for console sales is definitely not Japan.

Nanashrew · Jun 19, 2020

Combichristoffersen said:
It's not irrelevant to games, but it's irrelevant for home consoles. Sony's bread and butter for console sales is definitely not Japan.

If it continues it will be. Losing interest in consoles also means it becomes harder to find devs interested in making games for consoles.

Square Enix struggling to recruit console developers/partners in Japan, will recruit more overseas

I thought this was an interesting one. Source: http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/18q4outline.pdf

www.resetera.com

Combichristoffersen · Jun 19, 2020

Nanashrew said:
If it continues it will be. Losing interest in consoles also means it becomes harder to find devs interested in making games for consoles.

Square Enix struggling to recruit console developers/partners in Japan, will recruit more overseas

I thought this was an interesting one. Source: http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/18q4outline.pdf

www.resetera.com

If Japanese devs aren't interested in working on consoles, I guess they could stick to making gacha games for the domestic market, even though they're essentially cutting themselves off from overseas profits.

AquaWateria · Jun 19, 2020

Combichristoffersen said:
It's not irrelevant to games, but it's irrelevant for home consoles. Sony's bread and butter for console sales is definitely not Japan.

Yea it sucks for PlayStation consoles, but at the same time Japan is necessary for Nintendo.

Jawbreaker · Jun 19, 2020

It's still Sony's second-largest market in terms of console sales, and it's ending roughly in line with the PS3's LTD, so if they remain flat with the PS5, it's OK. Not ideal, but fine.

I think relegating Japan to second-tier country status at the start of the gen (delayed launch and no appealing games of note for Japan) really set the tone for the rest of the generation and kneecapped the PS4's potential despite getting all the big JP support. Jim Ryan himself called this a strategic mistake, and it's undoubtedly something they're seeking to correct with the PS5.

I personally believe the PS5 will be fine and has a shot at keeping positive momentum this time provided they nail the launch in Japan and with mainline MH and DQ now all but guaranteed to be there at some point.

MatrixMan.exe · Jun 19, 2020

There's not a lot they can do other than fundamentally change their product strategy, potentially at the expense of the huge worldwide market they have.

They'll always have a place in Japan so long as they're the only viable 'high end' system there, but this point they're fulfilling a niche.

Deleted member 19702 · Jun 19, 2020

Sony has third-parties by the balls, they'll support it no matter what.

Combichristoffersen · Jun 19, 2020

AquaWateria said:
Yea it sucks for PlayStation consoles, but at the same time Japan is necessary for Nintendo.

Pretty much. Nintendo would see a downturn in profits if they had no products that appealed to Japan. Sony can get by with their sales outside Japan.

Come to think of it, what games have Sony's Japan Studios (including PD) made this gen? Anything besides GT Sport, Astro Bot and the Gravity Rush ports? They helped out on some games, didn't they?

Oregano · Jun 19, 2020

Combichristoffersen said:
Pretty much. Nintendo would see a downturn in profits if they had no products that appealed to Japan. Sony can get by with their sales outside Japan.

Come to think of it, what games have Sony's Japan Studios (including PD) made this gen? Anything besides GT Sport, Astro Bot and the Gravity Rush ports? They helped out on some games, didn't they?

Champion · Jun 19, 2020

All the major Japanese publishers have the majority of their big IP on PlayStation hardware and I've seen nothing that would lead me to believe that will stop. That seems to be outweighing the market-share they have lost in Japan.

100 million. Again.

Sony will be fine.

Combichristoffersen · Jun 19, 2020

Oregano said:

How could I forget the most important game since Pong.

I have brought shame upon my family and must now commit seppuku.

Jawbreaker · Jun 19, 2020

Also, Japan is nowhere near irrelevant, and you'd have to be a fool to think Sony isn't trying to better their position in that market, especially with a new console looming. It betrays a lack of understanding.

Gnorman · Jun 19, 2020

Game sales are a global business. It's incredibly easy to reach a worldwide audience so Sony will continue to get pretty much all Japanese games by default like they do now.

-girgosz- · Jun 19, 2020

Oregano said:

Perfection.gif

Anoxida · Jun 19, 2020

Jawbreaker said:
Also, Japan is nowhere near irrelevant, and you'd have to be a fool to think Sony isn't trying to better their position in that market, especially with a new console looming. It betrays a lack of understanding.

I mean sure they'll always try to improve but lets face it Japan is not even close to their top priority. They will largely keep doing what they've been doing and they will be laughing all the way to the bank. Saying Japan is irrelevant is stupid but saying it's not nearly as important as it used to be is 100% correct.

Penny Royal · Jun 19, 2020

I'd need to find the exact quote, but I'm pretty certain Sony said they have sold more games this gen overall (ie more individual titles selling at lower volumes) than PS3; the PS4 itself is still tracking above PS3 launch aligned, and there's obviously increased spending in services.

So overall Sony are in all likelihood making more money from Japan now, despite flat h/ware sales.

Then you throw in Aniplex, since we're talking about Sony as a whole, which includes Sony Music, and AFAIK they're doing extremely well.

So:

Flat h/ware sales from previous gen
Bigger volume of s/ware sales
More spending on services
Maintaining developer relationships as gateway platform to Western markets, especially for larger publishers.
Aniplex contribution to Sony Corp.

I think Sony is doing fine in Japan, you just need to look past h/ware sales & top 10 sales charts.

Deleted member 7462 · Jun 19, 2020

Oregano said:
No? Nintendo as a publisher and platform holder is dominating worldwide right now, and a large part of that is the massive success they are seeing in Japan.

Wrong. A large part of that is sales in the US and EU.

Japan is nice, but it's a relatively small market at this point.

ShinUltramanJ · Jun 19, 2020

Japan doesn't matter like it used to

Nanashrew · Jun 19, 2020

UnapologeticallyBLK said:
Wrong. A large part of that is sales in the US and EU.

Japan is nice, but it's a relatively small market at this point.

Japan is still the second biggest territory of games sold. And Switch is also doing really well in places like Taiwan and Korea, which Media Create now tracks.

DangerMouse · Jun 19, 2020

Jaded Alyx said:
They are still the de facto default console for Japanese Publishers.

Yeah. There's not much they can do short of making another portable which would just split resources again so what they need to do is at least keep the dialogues, help, and relationships strong with third party Japanese devs to make it as easy as possible for them to keep PS5 as their default console so that the games keep coming just like it has been this gen, so that they keep bringing both exclusives and PS5/Switch games, which will both help worldwide and also keep the PS5 relatively stable in Japan even if home consoles is way smaller than it used to be, but still very important both for them in Japan and also for their worldwide fans as well.

Combichristoffersen said:
Pretty much. Nintendo would see a downturn in profits if they had no products that appealed to Japan. Sony can get by with their sales outside Japan.

Come to think of it, what games have Sony's Japan Studios (including PD) made this gen? Anything besides GT Sport, Astro Bot and the Gravity Rush ports? They helped out on some games, didn't they?

Internally they also did Gravity Rush 2 and The Last Guardian this gen (along with those two Knack games). Gravity Rush Remastered was Bluepoint with seemingly some assistance.
Yeah, they had a bunch of co-production assistance with other studios this gen like Bloodborne, Everybody's Golf, Deracine VR, and No Heroes Allowed VR along with a few others.

skeezx · Jun 19, 2020

end of a gen... nintendo with a "portable"

not optimal but what else can they really do here?

Omnistalgic · Jun 19, 2020

Simple...they need to make a portable device...

Nanashrew · Jun 19, 2020

Sony can get all the software in the world by default, and they do, but not many of them actually reach wide audiences to attract more customers. Sony doesn't have any games of their own that do that, and for 3rd party, just a few of them actually do like Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, Minecraft, maybe some Final Fantasy though Final Fantasy has seen some decline in areas. Majority 3rd party titles cater to specific hardcore types within a narrow age range but we're also seeing decline from many games in general due sequel fatigue (with Nintendo as the sole exception). There are also not many new IPs that actually spark interest in Japanese audiences as well, hence why it might have been shocking for some that prior to Ring Fit Adventure hitting 1m at retail in Japan was Splatoon on the Wii U in 2014. In the last 10 years it has been either a new Nintendo IP or Yokai Watch.

Sony's demographic is largely the 18-32 male demographic in Japan. Yes, this is 2018, but it wouldn't have changed much for Sony since we're approaching end of life.

Demographics for consoles, PC & smartphones in Japan - May 2018

A lot at the link: https://www.4gamer.net/games/999/G999905/20180702011/ Disclaimer: (machine translation) First of all, the trend of the domestic game market was explained by Mr. Seiichi Mitsui , Game Age Research Institute Representative Director . The data dealt with in this paper is as of...

www.resetera.com

And sure, if they made a portable, there might be some benefits, but Sony has to actually support it and do better. Just making one doesn't mean people will come as we saw with the Vita, so it's not as simple as many make it out to be.

cvxfreak · Jun 19, 2020

Hilarious to see people say Japan is irrelevant as a market when Switch is on track to sell around 25 million units there, which if achieved would be a record for any home console and second only to the DS for handheld devices.

Going back to the PS3 vs 360, the only reason the PS3 came out ahead in the event by a 3-4 million units was because the PS3 outsold 360 in Japan by 9 million units.

In the present day, that Sony and Microsoft have failed to appeal to this large market isn't Japan's fault at all.

会津Aizuの復讐 · Jun 19, 2020

cvxfreak said:
In the present day, that Sony and Microsoft have failed to appeal to this large market isn't Japan's fault at all.

Microsoft actually have one console game that is selling millions in Japan. :D

Anth0ny · Jun 19, 2020

Horror said:
Japan market has gone to hell because they don't prefer or play the same games you play?

the japan market has gone to hell because it's gone to hell

this week hardware sales:

Code:

+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+
|System |  This Week |  Last Week |  Last Year |     YTD    |  Last YTD  |     LTD     |
+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+
| NSW # |     55.187 |     68.192 |     34.321 |  2.494.655 |  1.395.638 |  13.878.086 |
| PS4 # |      9.283 |     21.291 |     28.762 |    415.167 |    612.721 |   9.163.410 |
| 3DS # |      1.004 |      1.180 |      2.768 |     31.244 |    125.270 |  24.527.391 |
| XB1 # |        104 |         37 |        341 |      2.613 |      3.321 |     113.859 |
+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+
|  ALL  |     65.578 |     90.700 |     66.331 |  2.943.679 |  2.172.415 |  47.682.746 |
+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+
| NSW L |     16.502 |     19.183 |            |  1.256.979 |            |   2.302.362 |
|  NSW  |     38.685 |     49.009 |     34.321 |  1.237.676 |  1.395.638 |  11.575.724 |
| XB1 X |         90 |         22 |        224 |      1.888 |      2.265 |      20.530 |
| XB1 S |         14 |         15 |        117 |        725 |      1.056 |      21.327 |
|PS4 Pro|      5.381 |      5.590 |     10.026 |    156.181 |    218.792 |   1.551.151 |
|  PS4  |      3.902 |     15.701 |     18.736 |    258.986 |    393.929 |   7.612.259 |
|n-2DSLL|        920 |      1.122 |      2.254 |     29.399 |    100.028 |   1.133.645 |
| n-3DS |         84 |         58 |        514 |      1.845 |     24.151 |   5.887.760 |
+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+

this week 10 years ago hardware sales:

Code:

__________________________________________________________________
|System |  This Week  |  Last Week  |        YTD  |         LTD  |
------------------------------------------------------------------
|  NDS  |     53.523  |     24.418  |  1.059.758  |  30.338.838  |
|  PSP  |     21.766  |     22.380  |  1.051.855  |  14.794.943  |
|  WII  |     19.045  |     20.588  |    777.866  |  10.383.065  |
|  PS3  |     17.175  |     17.676  |    716.670  |   5.218.037  |
|  360  |      2.060  |      3.225  |     81.296  |   1.290.968  |
|  PS2  |      1.568  |      1.291  |     42.248  |  21.652.425  |
------------------------------------------------------------------
| DSiLL |     30.183  |     11.138  |    553.779  |   1.060.686  |
|  DSi  |     18.214  |     10.172  |    399.806  |   4.738.752  |
|  DSL  |      5.126  |      3.108  |    106.173  |  17.953.929  |
------------------------------------------------------------------
|  PSP  |     20.929  |     21.662  |  1.015.963  |  14.683.296  |
| PSPgo |        837  |        718  |     35.892  |     111.647  |
------------------------------------------------------------------

of course this isn't a 1:1 comparison, 10 years ago the DS is 6 years into its life while the Switch is currently 3 years in, PS3 was 4 years old while PS4 is 7, but broadly speaking:

Switch has basically taken the spot of of the DS, and is doing exceedingly well. But the PS4 is well below what PS3 was doing, week in and week out, AND it had a far stronger library + lower price for its entire life. We see how dominant the PS4 has been around the world, far better than the PS3, yet that hasn't translated to Japan for whatever reason, despite some of its best games traditionally doing well in Japan. Your Personas, Final Fantasies, Monster Hunters, Resident Evils, Dragon Quest... list goes on.

Sony is out of the handheld game, so there is no modern day replacement for PSP. In theory, such interest would boost Switch sales.

What was once a two pronged approach with a console and a handheld from Nintendo is now combined into one with the Switch. Again, in theory, that should boost Switch sales.

So we have the Switch kicking ass, and... ? Switch certainly isn't making up for the lack of a Sony handheld, or the lack of a separate, second Nintendo machine. Or an underperforming Sony home console.

Maybe "gone to hell" was a bit strong, but it's down in every sense outside of Nintendo and their first party output.

Japan simply doesn't have a great interest in home consoles anymore, and PS5 won't change that. More so than ever, people are fine with just a portable experience, whether that be the Switch or mobile games.

jfkgoblue · Jun 19, 2020

I mean, moving to being a US based company in 2016 kinda says it all.

cvxfreak said:
Hilarious to see people say Japan is irrelevant as a market when Switch is on track to sell around 25 million units there, which if achieved would be a record for any home console and second only to the DS for handheld devices.

Going back to the PS3 vs 360, the only reason the PS3 came out ahead in the event by a 3-4 million units was because the PS3 outsold 360 in Japan by 9 million units.

In the present day, that Sony and Microsoft have failed to appeal to this large market isn't Japan's fault at all.

It's irrelevant as a home console market, the switch is essentially a handheld you can hook up to your TV easily.(Not like the Wii U did even ok there) Like I said above, SIE now being a US based company kinda shows what has happened to the home console market in Japan.

Bowl0l · Jun 19, 2020

As long as the games are made available outside Japan, i will be there to purchase.

Do we have PC tools that can perform real time Google Translate subtitles?
Google should consider offering such a tool in all PC platform as a subscription service.

SinCityAssassin · Jun 19, 2020

jfkgoblue said:
I mean, moving to being a US based company in 2016 kinda says it all.

It's irrelevant as a home console market, the switch is essentially a handheld you can hook up to your TV easily. Like I said above, SIE now being a US based company kinda shows what has happened to the home console market in Japan.

I would say diminishing the Japanese console market at this point by using the term handheld for its market leader is pretty disingenuous. People still bought the normal Switch at a far greater amount than the Switch Lite until stocks went low.

That said the notion that they should ignore the Japanese market because it's "irrelevant" is still idiotic. It's a huge market for them still, larger than most singular countries in Asia and Europe. Trying to maintain relevance there is as important as maintaining relevancy in any other market.

jfkgoblue · Jun 19, 2020

SinCItyAssassin said:
I would say diminishing the Japanese console market at this point by using the term handheld for its market leader is pretty disingenuous. People still bought the normal Switch at a far greater amount than the Switch Lite until stocks went low.

It's essentially what it is though, if you look at it, it's basically taken over the 3DS's sales. The Wii U did horrible in Japan as well.

SinCityAssassin · Jun 19, 2020

jfkgoblue said:
It's essentially what it is though, if you look at it, it's basically taken over the 3DS's sales. The Wii U did horrible in Japan as well.

If you look at it, it's basically taken over everyone's sales.

Abdul Malik Ka'bah said:
If they don't really have time to be confined to a single room to play a console, PC gaming is obviously a no fly zone.

PC Gaming has actually risen a bit dramatically in the last two years in Japan. Still not large, but it's not insignificant anymore to add a PC release in the region.

Should Sony be worried about their decreasing sales in Japan?

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