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Should DMC5 remove its perceived tribute to Michael Jackson?
- Thread starter ZeroX
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This is what I think too.
more important. When is there gonna be a new game?
Is that more important than him being a pedophile? If he's already an icon, why do we need further tribute to his legacy of cultural works?
Yeah the scene is a reference to a dance that has become a lot more than just MJ at this point
Like, I get it if Sega deleted Space Michael from Space Channel 5 because, well, it's literally MJ
But you aren't going to delete his dance at this point, especially when this scene was likely created years before the Neverland documentary even happened
Like, I get it if Sega deleted Space Michael from Space Channel 5 because, well, it's literally MJ
But you aren't going to delete his dance at this point, especially when this scene was likely created years before the Neverland documentary even happened
It is his music. A part of musical history that should definitely not be evaporated. His music stands separate to his disgusting actions that have been known for YEARS. That doesn't mean a timing of a documentary suddenly makes these accusations (which is what they are by definition due to a court case prior claiming his innocence no matter your belief) less impactful. It doesn't suddenly mean we should scrape through history deleting anything to do with his MUSIC because it was him who sung it or created it. I would 100% agree with you if it was a reference to his actual paedophilia because that is not right in any form as it is MICHAEL JACKSON which is the discussion point there.
But this is a reference to his musical career, a career that I believe is separate to the actions he took upon himself to do with children that had no ability to say no, nor did they fully understand their actions until later on. But this reference? It isn't harmful, it is referencing a point in pop culture like many other elements of pop culture have done before it.
maybe...take a break bro...
Well that's on Sega. :P Personally, I think a disclaimer would least be good rather than delisting it. And hell, maybe Capcom could add a disclaimer too.
You know what the worst part of the people in this thread is? Instead of arguing to keep the scene for other reasons, almost everyone advocating to keep it sprung immediately to trying to absolve Jackson and victim blaming
Yes. Absolutely. Then remake it without him.
It's not just a silly dance move. Portraying it that way is disingenuous. That silly dance move has context, and that context is that it is the creation of a man who sexually abused children. You can't just be divorced from that fact when it props up a legacy that overshadows his victims.
It doesn't. Nor does the magnitude of his abuses outweigh his status as a cultural icon.
And your obsession with getting the entire forum to villify him doesn't change the fact that he was an international superstar that influenced and entertained millions worldwide.
It is ludicrous to hold the view that enjoying Michael Jackson's music is akin to supporting pedophilia.
Nah no need to remove it. People will make their own judgement on what they think of Michael Jackson and his body of work, and how the latest docu-series reflects on his legacy. But this is just a game and a random scene out of said game. not "glorifying" anything. Also some things are so pervasive in culture you can't remove them. Michael Jackson is one of those things, its a reason why his documentary is not blowing up nor having the consequences like R Kelly's (He's also dead, so really hard for the news cycle to continue going as well other than the massive lawsuits designed to bankrupt folk). And why Michael Jackson's music continues to play on radio stations and R Kelly's doesnt.
Yeah, let's remove the Night Elf Male dance animation from WoW, too.
It is a silly dance move that's been ingrained in our culture for over 30 years. It's one of the most famous dance moves in history. If Michael Jackson's allegations (that I still believe are false, due to being found not guilty) are such a big deal to everyone why wasn't this uproar happening before the documentary?
Hollywood is full of weirdos and pedophiles. If we're gonna start removing shit from media that references horrible people, I'll gladly go all the way. I won't like it but we can't single ONE person out.
where in my comment did i say it was more important? everyone has a right to decide what they want, but dont put words in my mouth. the way art and artist are associated is up-to each individual
What's with this same disengenuous argument cropping up over and over? Nobody is trying to erase him from everything. DMC 5 just came out here in 2019, and the question is whether or not it should be removed so as to stem the tide of NEW scenes glorifying him going forward.
If he actually sexually abused children, then yeah, I'd say remove it. Having not seen the latest documentary and previously siding with MJ based on the evidence shown prior, my current stance would be to leave it in.
A lot of countries have stopped playing MJ's music such as in Canada, Australia and New Zealand.
It is blowing up but maybe not to the same extent because MJ is dead and didn't try to 'defend' himself in the way R Kelly did (sigh...another artist who's music I enjoyed...).
And that opinion is most certainly agreeable. Michael Jackson is the creator of the music, yes. But I do believe that a separation can come when that music doesn't show paedophile influence or normality. I do believe that appreciating his music does not normalise his paedophile background because you still very much can argue openly about such actions. His music is iconic and groundbreaking with many of his styles still influencing today's music, but even today we are still easily explaining the difference of his music to his personal lifestyle choices of destroying children who had no choice. Who now live in a world they don't understand because they see it as broken only.
It's a yes or no question. If you say no, you are making a statement that his legacy and art is more important than what he did to his victims. If you say yes, it should be removed, you are saying that the legacy of what he did matters more than the dances and music he created.
Let's break that down. You're arguing that because the outrage has resurfaced (it isn't new fyi) it is somehow less relevant. There is a reason this is a topic of conversation again, btw, but even if there wasn't your argument would still be "Why bother getting mad about it now?" which is nonsense.
Secondly, cool victim blaming.
As for "we can't single ONE person out." You know what would help? If that argument wasn't made on an individual basis for EVERY "weirdo and pedophile." We can't kick Kevin Spacey out of Hollywood! That's singling ONE sex pest out! We can't try to oust Harvey Weinstein! We can't stop glorifying Michael Jackson!
Come on.
Do you realize that you are setting yourself up for people to go ahead and try to give an aneurysm on purpose right?
See...
Wouldn't want to hurt the dead guy's feelings by recognizing the most recent round of his victims coming forward after facing the lifetime of damage he did to them as children.
Closer to the topic question, I think if the estate gets a penny from it, I'd rather see it removed. It is what it is, and the influence of his work is unavoidable if it's an informal tribute.
#Metoo was mostly (but not exclusively) about abuse against adult women, MJ was accused of abusing young boys. Pedophilia has been extremely frowned upon for a much longer time than sexual violence against adult women in American culture. People in my age bracket grew up thinking MJ was creepy and more than likely guilty but got away with it due to massive stockpiles of money. To be perfectly fair MJ's career was never the same post 1993. He was no longer the biggest popstar in the world after that, Dangerous was his last album that was a megahit with basically every other song becoming a massive hit. I don't remember him ever achieving that level of success again.
Nope, that was a great scene. Funny as hell.
Actually that reminds me, I wonder what the live action version looks like in the deluxe features. lol
Actually that reminds me, I wonder what the live action version looks like in the deluxe features. lol
MJ's music isn't played nearly as much as the Beatles despite achieving a similar level of success. If he never did these crimes then pretty much every retro station in the US would be playing MJ songs half the day.
This
This as well, given most recent documentary is questionable to say at the very least.
THIS 100% If somehow people get upset at this, they really don't understand this is Dante basically being Dante. He's been a giant doofus since DMC1. Only exception is DMC2 where dante was serious 24/7 for whatever reason. If anything its more of a tribute to the dance and not the man himself. Speaking of...
This to sign off on it as well.
Again, I still feel like tribute is too strong of a word. It's a reference at best.
The problem is that - as evidenced by reactions in his thread - the legacy of his art eclipses his legacy of sexual abuse, and there's no reason to continue glorifying him. This is why I asked (was it you or someone else?) about what's more important: the dignity and legacy of his victims, or his "silly dance moves." By glorifying one it's a statement that it matters more than the other in the grand scheme of how we remember him. I'm on the side of saying we don't need new tributes to his music going forward. No need to erase the past, we just don't need more monuments that serve only to make him MORE iconic.
The MJ threads over the next few months are going to be a merry-go-round.
This thread is full of people defending him -- some in good faith, some in bad faith. The thread in EtcetEra is just mocking this thread and questioning the moderation/questioning why people aren't banned.
This thread is full of people defending him -- some in good faith, some in bad faith. The thread in EtcetEra is just mocking this thread and questioning the moderation/questioning why people aren't banned.
Maybe you should make a thread about that specific topic instead of what-about'ing for a pedophile.
I'll do it here, too. The old place would have rightly turned this thread into an absolute graveyard, and it goes against what I thought ERA stood for if they're letting the "I don't believe the victims" or other thinly veiled posts like "I'm buying it now" slide.
No, and imo the Simpsons removing that episode from circulation is also wrong.
Michael Jackson was a manipulative monster of a human being even if you don't believe the accusations, which is ridiculous on its own considering the amount of mental hoops you'd have to jump through for them to not be at least partially true. Occam's Razor definitely wouldn't support him being innocent.
But despite all that, what he brought to the world is iconic from a pop culture perspective and removing those kinds of contributions from awful people has never sat right with me. It's the same logic behind removing Lovecraft from the iconic lexicon of horror and the fantastic works (by people of races and religions that he no less hated) inspired by him.
Also, good luck getting Japan to remove anything MJ related. They love him over there and likely aren't too concerned with any controversy surrounding him.
Michael Jackson was a manipulative monster of a human being even if you don't believe the accusations, which is ridiculous on its own considering the amount of mental hoops you'd have to jump through for them to not be at least partially true. Occam's Razor definitely wouldn't support him being innocent.
But despite all that, what he brought to the world is iconic from a pop culture perspective and removing those kinds of contributions from awful people has never sat right with me. It's the same logic behind removing Lovecraft from the iconic lexicon of horror and the fantastic works (by people of races and religions that he no less hated) inspired by him.
Also, good luck getting Japan to remove anything MJ related. They love him over there and likely aren't too concerned with any controversy surrounding him.
I think victim blaming is bullshit and Jackson was absolutely guilty.
But if people want to talk about this thread, they should actually come in here and talk and not just complain somewhere else.
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