Should DMC5 remove its perceived tribute to Michael Jackson?

[Kyuuji]

Was it ever on the buy list ?

Click to shrink...

Yes, it really doesn't take much of a level of curiosity to get me to buy a game. I've not played one in the series, but this reviewed well and saw the thread complementing the graphics on the X. So was definitely something I'd have picked up following this current swell of releases to give a go and see if I enjoyed it.

 

[big_z]

Incoming graveyard.

Capcom probably won't do anything and the game will be blacklisted.

 

[Deleted member 198]

No but all the people in this thread spouting "but wheres the PROOF" have changed my mind into saying yes because what the fuck is wrong with y'all

 

[Deleted member 36578]

When I first saw the scene I was surprised and obviously the first thing that popped in my head was that documentary. It's very unfortunate timing on dmc5s part. However I don't believe they should remove it as it's just dance moves, even as iconic as they are. One of the devs said they came from a famous Japanese artist that wears a hat like the one Dante gets and does those moves as well. Whether that's a cop out and despite the origin of the moves being Jacksons, the game doesn't praise Jackson in anyway and nobody who doesn't already know, wouldn't even learn about Jackson through the game. They'd just see Dante being a goofy guy. Let Dante dance.

 

[Deleted member 224]

He was not found guilty OP. Why should they remove it?

Click to shrink...

He was a disgusting man who had gross, inappropriate, sexual relationships with young boys. He gave them alcohol, wrote them love letters, gave them wedding rings to "marry them", tried to separate them from their parents, had long phone conversations with them for hours late at night, and repeatedly slept in the same bed as them. To top it all off, once they hit puberty he dropped them for another pre pubescent boy. That's child abuse and he's a monster. That's why.

 

[Council Pop]

Maybe it's my 'unemotional' autistic brain talking, but I really cannot see how liking a pop star can in any way condone sexual abuse. It's not like he was promoting sexual abuse in his music or his brand. It's super confusing for me, because I've grown up knowing that MJ was a paedo, everyone knew. There already exist many accounts like the ones in this film. It's horrific, and people who flat out deny it's true are either trolling or deluded.

But it feels so disingenuous for people to come out now and be like "oh we're never playing his music again!" when the documentary is telling us things we already knew, and have known for many years.

I'm not an MJ fan at all, but it's a fact that nothing can take away the cultural impact of MJs music and image. I thought we as a society had already dealt with the fact that he did terrible things but also created really important work, but clearly I was wrong.

I'm never going to judge or protest about anyone enjoying MJ's work, or referencing his work, or being influenced by his work. But people who flat out deny that he was a prolific abuser? They're scum.

 

[Sinder]

This thread is already profoundly, profoundly disturbing and disgusting.

A lot of victim blaming supporters of pedophilia. Incredible. All for your fucking video games.

 

[Prine]

Nope, its fine.

 

[SimplyComplex]

Absolutely not

 

[Mechanized]

It should be removed. Homaging a pedophile shouldn't be tolerated. This is a stain on a beloved series.
People were up in arms over the Suicide Silence thing, but this is fine?

 

[Typhoon20]

Guilty until proven innocent.

 

[LAM09]

I don't think they should at all

 

[dlauv]

Leaving Neverland isn't proof. It's just the hot topic at the moment - I'd hate to call it a memeing for fear of minimizing potential child abuse, but that's what bandwagoners who take and parrot shit at face value are doing. Many people don't believe Wade Robson and have given long, detailed reasons as to why. There are reasons as to why he was acquitted. It's far from clear cut.

 

[Deleted member 176]

This thread is already profoundly, profoundly disturbing and disgusting.

A lot of victim blaming supporters of pedophilia. Incredible. All for your fucking video games.

Click to shrink...

they even have the out of saying it's some Japanese guy but instead it's all about jokes and proof I don't understand

 

[J75]

They could just change the dance so he doesn't do the very obvious MJ gestures like moon walking ect , the goofiness of the scene and the hat can remain without paying tribute to him. Very unfortunate timing though.

 

[Khanimus]

He was a fucking creep who abused kids. Fuck his legacy and any reverence for it.

 

[RecRoulette]

Here's the article with the quote about it being a reference to another guy instead of an MJ reference

"This is a fun fact that I don't think anybody knows yet," Walker said. "(Players) feel like that's kind of a Michael Jackson thing. Well in Japan, there's a link between that hat and the dancing. There was this pop star in Japan that would wear a hat like that and basically copped Michael Jackson's dance moves. So it's really a reference to that. In the West, we think it's a Michael Jackson reference even though it's not."

Click to shrink...

 

[Dreamboum]

Who's the japanese guy doing the moves ?

 

[Miamiwesker]

I thought it was bad timing but what can you do now. Obviously we should not celebrate the man ever again but trying to erase his art is ridiculous and impossible. For the rest of time MJs music and dancing will be shown from generation to generation, we can separate the two. But I don't blame any company from putting a ban on MJ.

 

[TaleSpun]

no its a part of pop culture. mj dancing transcended him. this is like saying no one should ever do the moonwalk again.

Click to shrink...

Pretty much.

The Simpsons move is fine and considerate. It's not like Capcom can just swap this scene out with something else though. It's a little more involved than just pulling one episode, out of hundreds, out of circulation.

Supporting victims doesn't mean trying to erase all evidence of the perpetrator from culture at large. People are gonna play MJ records, they're gonna Moonwalk, it is what it is.

There was only one trial, that isn't the end all say all of the universe.

Click to shrink...

It's worth noting the HBO doc that's brought all this back up isn't any sort of ironclad rebuttal.

 

[Sinder]

Leaving Neverland isn't proof. It's just the hot topic at the moment - I'd hate to call it a memeing for fear of minimizing potential child abuse, but that's what bandwagoners who take and parrot shit at face value are doing. Many people don't believe Wade Robson and have given long, detailed reasons as to why. There are reasons as to why he was acquitted. It's far from clear cut.

Click to shrink...

Go ahead and fucking post them. I've heard them too. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about and you don't know anything about what abuse does to people.

God, this fucking thread.

 

[xxracerxx]

Many people don't believe Wade Robson and have given long, detailed reasons as to why. There are reasons as to why he was acquitted.

Click to shrink...

Why do people not mention the other person in the doc? Also, one of the major reasons he was acquitted was because of Robson's testimony. Grooming is a thing.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Oh boy, I knew gaming side would be even worse than off-topic.

Honestly, I wouldn't care one bit if they got rid of it. Michael Jackson was a sick fuck who abused people and sexually molested children.

 

[-PyramidSong]

Go ahead and fucking post them. I've heard them too. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about and you don't know anything about what abuse does to people.

God, this fucking thread.

Click to shrink...

Relax, man. Jesus

 

[Wing Scarab]

Go ahead and fucking post them. I've heard them too. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about and you don't know anything about what abuse does to people.

God, this fucking thread.

Click to shrink...

Sounding very aggressive there.

Oh boy, I knew gaming side would be even worse than off-topic.

Honestly, I wouldn't care one bit if they got rid of it. Michael Jackson was a sick fuck who abused people and sexually molested children.[/QUOTE]

Click to shrink...

And this has been proven how?

 

[Kyuuji]

Many people don't believe Wade Robson and have given long, detailed reasons as to why.

Click to shrink...

You understand there are two abuse victims in the documentary, right?

 

[chandoog]

Nope. It's a funny cutscene. that's all.

Click to shrink...

Basically. This.

 

[Deleted member 8860]

If Capcom chooses to take it out, that's fine by me. It's not a good look to make any connection to MJ.

I'm also fine with Capcom leaving it in -- MJ/his estatewas not involved, his likeness/voice/music was not used, and he/his estate was not compensated in any way for Dante's dance. Moonwalking, etc., is part of the cultural zeitgeist, and such references are removed from commendation of those who popularized them.

 

[Xiaomi]

On the one hand venerating MJ is clearly not alright anymore. On the other hand this was something likely done months if not years ago when society (especially in Japan) still had its fingers in it's ears and I'm okay putting this in the trash pile along with Guilty Gear's and Space Channel 5's homages and moving on as long as they don't do it again.

 

[DrArchon]

I honestly think the title of this thread needs to be changed.

Dante's dance isn't a tribute to Michael Jackson. It's a reference. A tribute would be like one of those awful movies that came out after his death that only talked about how he was a positive influence on the world and not a deeply problematic person.

 

[Deathman]

Go ahead and fucking post them. I've heard them too. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about and you don't know anything about what abuse does to people.

God, this fucking thread.

Click to shrink...

Chill the fuck out.

 

[Deleted member 23212]

Incoming graveyard.

Capcom probably won't do anything and the game will be blacklisted.

Click to shrink...

I assume it'll be like the spirit battles in SSBU. I don't see this getting enough attention to amount to anything.

 

[Odeko]

This thread is already profoundly, profoundly disturbing and disgusting.

A lot of victim blaming supporters of pedophilia. Incredible. All for your fucking video games.

Click to shrink...

Petition to put an "I should really just relax" button next to the post button that deletes what you wrote and takes you to a different thread to give ridiculous hyperbolic posts like this one last chance to back out before committing.

 

[Sinder]

Relax, man. Jesus

Click to shrink...

No. I'm not ok with these fucking people defending a monstrous pedophile that everyone who lived through the 90's knew was a monstrous pedophile, all just because he makes good music. The motherfucker held hands with kids in public and spent weeks alone with them. And now we have them ON CAMERA telling their story in detail. And I still have to read this shit? From people who probably haven't even watched the documentary?

This thread deserves to become a graveyard. This is disgusting.

 

[Deleted member 224]

Leaving Neverland isn't proof. It's just the hot topic at the moment - I'd hate to call it a memeing for fear of minimizing potential child abuse, but that's what bandwagoners who take and parrot shit at face value are doing. Many people don't believe Wade Robson and have given long, detailed reasons as to why. There are reasons as to why he was acquitted. It's far from clear cut.

Click to shrink...

YouTube and the documentary has all the proof we need. He wrote love letters to the kids, gave them alcohol, gave one of them a fucking wedding ring, had multiple hours long late night phone calls with them, tried to separate them from their parents (their parents couldn't sleep in the same room), and slept in the same bed as them multiple times. Plus, once they hit puberty he wanted nothing to do with them. What the fuck more do you need to see that he was a child abuser. What kind of things does teaching a child that the above is a normal relationship do to them mentally?

 

[Daysean]

Remove the faust hat while you're at it, not because of MJ, but its too stylish for me to handle

 

[ArjanN]

MJ being a creep doesn't really change that he had a huge cultural impact, so I'm OK with it being in there. Especially since it's just a reference to his dance moves that wouldn't benefit him in any way.

Also, while the timing with the documentary is unfortunate, let's be real the writing was on the wall about MJ for decades. People just didn't want to think about it too hard because they liked his music.

 

[Masterspeed]

The only thing that reference was for was because Dante loves fucking breaking moves and being a total dick head. It should stay, It's perfect.

MJ is such a piece of shit though, but this should stay.

 

[Deleted member 32018]

Here's the article with the quote about it being a reference to another guy instead of an MJ reference

Click to shrink...

Unfortunately that is a quote that sounds more like "please don't boycott our game, here is a very flimsy excuse why you shouldn't"

 

[Deathman]

Petition to put an "I should really just relax button" next to the post button that deletes what you wrote and takes you to a different thread to give ridiculous hyperbolic posts like this one last chance to back out before committing.

Click to shrink...

This, so much hyperbole its insane

 

[Laxoon]

I watched the doc and I just watched this cutscene. Hoo boy.

I'd say it's awful timing on DMCV's part but I don't blame them for not considering recent events all that much. Still, it's so specifically linked to MJ and I just can't comfortably take it in good humor knowing what I know now about the abuse victims.
I'd rather the parts with the music, Dante mimicking the crotch grabbing and the 'hee-hee's not be in the game.

 

[robotzombie]

Yes, it really doesn't take much of a level of curiosity to get me to buy a game. I've not played one in the series, but this reviewed well and saw the thread complementing the graphics on the X. So was definitely something I'd have picked up following this current swell of releases to give a go and see if I enjoyed it.

Click to shrink...

sure you were

 

[BillFromAccounting]

Go ahead and fucking post them. I've heard them too. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about and you don't know anything about what abuse does to people.

God, this fucking thread.

Click to shrink...

I mean, I haven't seen the documentary as previously stated, but I definitely remember all of the evidence in the trial that showed that there was a clear and coordinated attempt to extort and frame him during that time period.

This documentary must be hella damning though for you to be so convinced, so I'm just gonna stop posting until I see it lol

 

[dlauv]

Go ahead and fucking post them. I've heard them too. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about and you don't know anything about what abuse does to people.

God, this fucking thread.

Click to shrink...

Here you go. The whole thread discussed this topic at length, exhausted many details, and there was a lot of back and forth.

 

[corasaur]

even if there was never enough to convict the guy, there's still enough genuinely super creepy stuff publicly confirmed that I think it's warranted to want to reduce micheal jackson's role in pop culture

 

[GarthLordOfTheSith]

No.

 

[Daysean]

Yes, it really doesn't take much of a level of curiosity to get me to buy a game. I've not played one in the series, but this reviewed well and saw the thread complementing the graphics on the X. So was definitely something I'd have picked up following this current swell of releases to give a go and see if I enjoyed it.

Click to shrink...

Why would you buy the 5th iteration in a series without playing the others?
You're a madman/madwoman

 

[TsuWave]

He was found not guilty, and iirc the FBI said they found no evidence of wrong doing no?

 

[Deathman]

I mean, I haven't seen the documentary as previously stated, but I definitely remember all of the evidence in the trial that showed that there was a clear and coordinated attempt to extort and frame him during that time period.

This documentary must be hella damning though for you to be so convinced, so I'm just gonna stop posting until I see it lol

Click to shrink...

It's the world of Netflix documentaries turning the planet into detectives. I respect the victims and absolutely support their right to seek an investigation. But a netflix documentary is not a trial with evidence.

 

[DanteSparda504]

I don't have a problem with the scene. The references have all trescended MJ. They are more than what the man was now. It'd be one thing if Michael himself were in the scene with his music and what not, but the dance and moves are more than him now.

What kills me with all this, is I quit listening to Michael forever ago. I never wanted to listen to his music after I understood the alegations, and gave zero fucks when he died, but now that a recent documentary has released bringing little to no new information and just reminding everyone to what they have been sweeping under the rug and pretending didn't happen, is it a big deal.

Where was everyone years ago? Well before his death? It's all been public knowledge and out in the open. It wasn't some big secret. Everyone should have been fighting the good fight when all this came out and stuck with it, rather than just smiling and pretending it wasn't a big deal. I'm glad people are waking up and not being pieces of shit, but THIS is not the type of thing you go after. You cancel his music. You cancel his films. You cancel the man.

Unfortunately he pretty much created these moves, but the moves are not the man. They are more than him now, and coming after a video game for referencing the moves is not how you make a stand, especially now that he's dead and you can't do anything to hurt him anymore.