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Should Destiny adopt subscription model, or keep premium expansions?
- Thread starter Deeke
- Start date
If a subscription model would result in more content drops like Black Armory then I'm totally uninterested. A subscription model only works if your game can at least update with content regularly, and that is something Destiny has always struggled with.
I dont trust bungie enough to deliver good quality content updates, especially for a monthly sub.
They would have to include a damn good roadmap for their plans outside of some tidbit addins and weapon balances
They would have to include a damn good roadmap for their plans outside of some tidbit addins and weapon balances
Premium expansions. I dislike the idea of being stuck in a recurring subscription over a longer period of time, especially when I mix and match and play many different games at a time. With expansions I just pick and choose which to invest in based on reviews and feedback, get a season pass at a discounted rate, or simply buy them later at a discounted price or in a new edition for super cheap. I can't imagine a subscription service would end up being cheaper over the long term, plus if more and more games or platforms adopt subscription services, it just doesn't remain viable anymore.
Destiny would have to crank out way more shit than it does now to justify a subscription model. Like what they do in a year in a quarter. Way too much of do this one thing a bazillion times to get at the new shines we put in the game. That's fine but not on its own I feel
Having Destiny as one SKU simply would not work, we'd end up with the game being 250gb on disk. It needs to be broken up into releases just to manage file sizes. You need to be able to close off a chapter of the game and be able to delete it, if only so players could have other games installed and not need to DL so much if they want to reinstall at some point.
I would agree with this, I have 1000 silver and don't know how to spend it. Everything I want I got through free currency.
I would agree with this, I have 1000 silver and don't know how to spend it. Everything I want I got through free currency.
The Destiny community wants a million different things. The hope/expectation is that every piece of content drop addresses some of these issues. A large portion of the community, myself included, has been complaining about the state of PvP. Others want matchmaking in all activities or want for strikes to matter again. No amount of content drops will ever satiate the community. That was my point by linking to r/destinythegame. The first page alone does a great job of illustrating this point.
I don't believe that Warframe or Path of Exile face the same pressures.
Ehh, both the Warframe and PoE communites are exactly the same, the two most used words on the Warframe forum are "content" and "drought".
I can't see why Destiny couldn't work as a F2P game, but I get the feeling that most AAA companies shy away from it because F2P is still seen as a step down from premium releases (which is rubbish)
I vastly prefer premium expansions
Im not on the hook, can play catch up on the cheap with discounted bundles and have time to play other games while not worrying about micromanaging another damn subscription
Im not on the hook, can play catch up on the cheap with discounted bundles and have time to play other games while not worrying about micromanaging another damn subscription
I am not sure how Destiny goes F2P. What are they getting me to pay for? What is their mtx hook?
I think a lot of things are going to change, fundamental things about player progression, and how to do more with less, because like it or not, their content production just got reduced with Activision leaving (because Vicarious Visions and High Moon Studios presumably leave with them).
As of shortly after the announcement of the split, Eververse is a direct, full, and as close to instant revenue stream to the studio (there's maybe a business day turnaround on receiving funds). In the short term, that's where the soonest changes should occur.
I like the Annual Pass because it's auto-correcting for perceived value. People that play every day and want the newest stuff as soon as possible can pay upfront knowing that this is the unchanging fee, and others can wait until what's there justifies the asking price for them (someone buying it in Summer would essentially be buying two new Raids, along with all the other things that were added).
Personally, I would like to see the game go free-to-play at the end of the annual pass and have, at a minimum, cross-platform accounts, cross-play even better, with a renewed focus on Eververse. This game is social. Lower the bar of entry permanently to anyone with a PlayStation, Xbox, or PC to spending their time, and if they like what's there and enjoy it with friends, they will spend money on it.
As of shortly after the announcement of the split, Eververse is a direct, full, and as close to instant revenue stream to the studio (there's maybe a business day turnaround on receiving funds). In the short term, that's where the soonest changes should occur.
I like the Annual Pass because it's auto-correcting for perceived value. People that play every day and want the newest stuff as soon as possible can pay upfront knowing that this is the unchanging fee, and others can wait until what's there justifies the asking price for them (someone buying it in Summer would essentially be buying two new Raids, along with all the other things that were added).
Personally, I would like to see the game go free-to-play at the end of the annual pass and have, at a minimum, cross-platform accounts, cross-play even better, with a renewed focus on Eververse. This game is social. Lower the bar of entry permanently to anyone with a PlayStation, Xbox, or PC to spending their time, and if they like what's there and enjoy it with friends, they will spend money on it.
So far I don't like the season pass model, would rather have the old mini campaign model so they could at least reuse some of the missions as strikes. People always complained the story was throw away but it was my fav part of the content drops. I enjoyed Curse of Osiris and then stay around to get all the forge weapons. I didn't bother unlocking the forges in black armory until I was 650 and have no interest in playing the same borning mode over and over for a few new weapons.
The production value that is invested in the Destiny IP is much more than a F2P game. At this point, people are asking Bungie to deliver AAA graphics, sound, and controls (which is beyond F2P games), but offer a F2P model with cosmetics as the money maker. The well will run dry very quick. Only way for that to work is cut back of the AAA experience that Destiny provides, and I do not see that going over very well with the Destiny community.
Bungie has made their coffin with the Destiny IP, and what I mean by that is there are certain expectations that should be met or exceeded. Graphics, sound, tight controls, etc. You know, the expensive stuff. Finding out a model that will not piss most people off, but make them money, in this day and age is going to be a challenge once you realize that they also have to meet or exceed (most likely exceed) the graphics, sound and controls of Destiny 2 (overall Destiny 2 as a whole). Top that off with the split with Activision, I'd say Bungie is in quite a tough spot come D3. However, I do not think F2P is going to be a reasonable option for them long term, if it's an option at all.
I'm sure the consumer will love it, though.
I will say this, though. I haven't been a fan of how they have been delivering their content. They need to find a better way. The annual pass, I think, is a step in the right direction. It still fails at content pacing, however.
Bungie has made their coffin with the Destiny IP, and what I mean by that is there are certain expectations that should be met or exceeded. Graphics, sound, tight controls, etc. You know, the expensive stuff. Finding out a model that will not piss most people off, but make them money, in this day and age is going to be a challenge once you realize that they also have to meet or exceed (most likely exceed) the graphics, sound and controls of Destiny 2 (overall Destiny 2 as a whole). Top that off with the split with Activision, I'd say Bungie is in quite a tough spot come D3. However, I do not think F2P is going to be a reasonable option for them long term, if it's an option at all.
I'm sure the consumer will love it, though.
I will say this, though. I haven't been a fan of how they have been delivering their content. They need to find a better way. The annual pass, I think, is a step in the right direction. It still fails at content pacing, however.
Destiny has armor. So that limits your cosmetic options. All you are left with is shaders, emotes and ornaments. Maybe ghost shells too or whatever else they come up with. Personally I am not paying for any of that. That said I don't mind if Bungie tries F2P. By all means, the more the merrier.
The game is already littered with microtransactions.
Look I wouldn't mind so much if the base game was anywhere near a definitive experience but the fact is, like destiny 1, destiny 2 is an absolutely obsolete experience without the DLC. They didn't just add onto the game, they fixed an extremely tepid, unsatisfying experience and locked it behind a paywall that essentially costs the price of a whole new game. That is 100 percent unacceptable to me. Forsaken should be free for all base game owners, period or at least nowhere near what it currently costs.
You wouldn't think so in these parts because Warframe is held up as a paragon of righteousness and all the communities are happy and holding hands and DE is perfect.
Because f2p worked for Warframe doesn't mean it will work Destiny.
Going F2P is a massive gamble for a AAA production like Destiny, it could happen, so who knows.
The game always felt like it should be a traditional MMO game but was limited in scope because of Activision and its shareholders wanting expensive expansions and full releases. The elephant in the room is Bungie who are very slow to create content.
I was more highlighting the fact that rampant thirst for content and updates isn't just a premium thing, F2P players are just as demanding.
Definitely a gamble, but it would appear that Destiny is probably one of the more via types of game for that side of monetization.
So you pay for the game, the expansions and then also a monthly fee? Why? How would that attract new players or keep old ones? We want legit expansions with new story missions, strikes, raids, exotics, etc.
Unless they can keep pumping that type of shit out I don't think most are interested.
The Black Armory type content isn't for everyone. If that's what the monthly fee will bring it won't change anything.
Unless they can keep pumping that type of shit out I don't think most are interested.
The Black Armory type content isn't for everyone. If that's what the monthly fee will bring it won't change anything.
Before anything else, there needs to be actual content in the game before I'm considering any of these 2 alternatives. I mean I would have gladly paid WoW-level money for real extensions on D2, with 1, 2, 3 new raids every time, but that first D2 season pass of 2 ridiculously lame and short DLCs with no new raid still haunts me to this day.
100$ for a few 3 players dungeons and one one-boss raid. Outright scam and it ended up killing the game. After D1 and D2 I'm not paying a third time for a Destiny 3 with that (lack of) content.
Anthem doesn't seem to tackle this issue either with 3 dungeons and zero raid. Game as a service, yeah we're doing them a great service throwing them absolute sh*tloads of money.
100$ for a few 3 players dungeons and one one-boss raid. Outright scam and it ended up killing the game. After D1 and D2 I'm not paying a third time for a Destiny 3 with that (lack of) content.
Anthem doesn't seem to tackle this issue either with 3 dungeons and zero raid. Game as a service, yeah we're doing them a great service throwing them absolute sh*tloads of money.
I waited until the game was complete, then waited for a good sale. It never came.
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I don't know if Bungie has the manpower to sustain a subscription model like WoW or even attempt the freemium route like Warframe. They seem to be in a weird place. My preferred route would be to just make the game subscription based and have them parse out content on a pretty regular basis but that would mean everything I ever get would move up with me if I want. No more eververse(or at least give just cosmetic reasons to exist), give me back my D1 shaders and emblems and especially emotes (ridiculous those didn't follow over, what did Gaul destroy our ability to dance?). Make all patrol areas from D1 accessible although that might not be a good thing if the player base is so spread thin you can't find enough people to make a public or EP happen.
I disagree. Part of my point is that had high moon not done foresaken, what kind of content would we have seen?
What price per month would you pay that would justify the BA content you've seen so far?
Forsaken was done by Bungie, Raids and all with help on Tangled Shore from VV. Scott Taylor and Steve Cotton ran the Forsaken show.
At this point, with Bungie being a massive AAAA independent studio, I feel there's only 2 things they can do. They can partner with a publisher to release their games, or they can turn Destiny as a whole into a F2P Warframe like service.
I seriously doubt it's possible for a 600 person developer to keep releasing $60 AAAA titles and remain afloat without a shift.
I seriously doubt it's possible for a 600 person developer to keep releasing $60 AAAA titles and remain afloat without a shift.
Subscription is my favorite business model for these types of games, but only if it means there are no microtransactions in the game, period. I'm unconvinced Bungie will be willing to give up that cash cow.
Realistically - $60 game, $30 Forsaken style expansions, microtransactions in between. How many people are buying the Warmind and Black Armory style stuff? Even with Forsaken, some of the trophy data is mildly alarming - ~13% have won a Gambit match or played through the campaign. There is just too much to play in the shooter space for them to get people on a monthly subscription or keep going with the current pricing model.
I had this conversation with my buddy this weekend and we both stated we would pay for a subscription but only if the content provided was something akin to WoW levels of content, and thats just not something Bungie is capable of making in a reasonable time frame.
Destiny should no doubt be 60$ but with an annual pass like they are doing right now, for 100$. After 6 content updates any annual pass exclusive items for the first 3 previous packs should be now become free to everyone which would be a huge grab tbh in a game like destiny. Being 3 content drops could honestly make them a lot of money in that term.
I mean shit siege does it with a week ahead for operators.
Eververse can be expanded to have more stuff and be a store and not as much RNG related? Major expansions should be half off for annual pass owners. If you don't buy the annual pass but you buy the DLC you should get the annual pass content leading up to it tho. So there's a bunch of options for users.
I mean shit siege does it with a week ahead for operators.
Eververse can be expanded to have more stuff and be a store and not as much RNG related? Major expansions should be half off for annual pass owners. If you don't buy the annual pass but you buy the DLC you should get the annual pass content leading up to it tho. So there's a bunch of options for users.
Considering how much I love Destiny, I'd definitely pay a monthly fee, no problem at all. The game's main problem is that hardcore fans like me, cannot support it enough financially.
This is true, but without the pressures of an Activision schedule I can see a more streamlined and clear approach.
Bungie is literally incapable of producing content fast enough, with their current size and current tools.
Don't forget that they were helped by two studios for Destiny 2 until now.
Destiny 3 should be F2P with only Eververse (and everything else free). Or be premium with meaty expansions and no microtransaction at all.
Don't forget that they were helped by two studios for Destiny 2 until now.
Destiny 3 should be F2P with only Eververse (and everything else free). Or be premium with meaty expansions and no microtransaction at all.