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Jun 24, 2019
6,363
I am happy SMT is getting the lime light

Besides the CE fiasco and awful scalpers, I am really excited for the benefits it will bring to the franchise and community
 

RoboAddict

Member
Jun 15, 2021
18
Unfortunately the scalpers are going to be able to cancel their orders, I wouldn't be surprised if Atlus ends up with a bunch of unsold stock of the premium edition after this whole shit show.
 

Ginusagi

Member
Nov 14, 2020
64
Portugal
Scalpers are probably keeping their pre-orders and sell them later on, but at least they're losing this war
Can't say the same about other products like the ps5, and graphic cards
 

HylianSeven

Shin Megami TC - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,017
Holy smokes, CE is still up on GameStop.

I think an obligatory HAHAHAHAHAHA EAT SHIT SCALPERS is in order.
I guess ATLUS kept true to their word. And yeah, fuck scalpers.
My thoughts exactly, get fucked scalpers.
Unfortunately the scalpers are going to be able to cancel their orders, I wouldn't be surprised if Atlus ends up with a bunch of unsold stock of the premium edition after this whole shit show.
If they do that, good. one less thing they end up profiting off of.
 

Ashes of Dreams

Unshakable Resolve
Member
May 22, 2020
14,315
It would still be bad for us SMT fans and Atlus, It's important to consider the negative impact to the sales of the game should they all cancel their orders.
In the grand scheme of things I don't know if a couple hundred copies are really going to make or break the game. The vast majority of it's sales were never going to be the collector's edition. And that's assuming those returned copies don't sell later at retail, which they probably will.
 

HylianSeven

Shin Megami TC - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,017
It would still be bad for us SMT fans and Atlus, It's important to consider the negative impact to the sales of the game should they all cancel their orders.
Nah, the game is clearly in demand. It means more people that actually want it can get it. If any sales are lost, it won't be by much.
 

HylianSeven

Shin Megami TC - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,017
I'm out of the loop here, what's this news about scalpers?
Gamestop had preorders open again for about an hour. The point is that a lot more people that actually wanted it could get it, and if everyone that wants it can get it, scalpers aren't going to have much of a market to sell to, so they likely end up either cancelling their mass preorders, letting people that want it get it, or end up like this:

$(KGrHqF,!ocFCreMbg(6BQs9eC8,j!~~60_57.JPG
 

apathetic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,721
Gamestop had preorders open again for about an hour. The point is that a lot more people that actually wanted it could get it, and if everyone that wants it can get it, scalpers aren't going to have much of a market to sell to, so they likely end up either cancelling their mass preorders, letting people that want it get it, or end up like this:

$(KGrHqF,!ocFCreMbg(6BQs9eC8,j!~~60_57.JPG

The annoying thing is scalpers hold no risk. Like as funny as that picture is I'm sure she got all of her money back.
 

HylianSeven

Shin Megami TC - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,017
The annoying thing is scalpers hold no risk. Like as funny as that picture is I'm sure she got all of her money back.
I'm sure she probably did, but they did have to go through that hassle and it's one less way they can make profit off of these things.

At the end of the day scalpers see these things as a payday and then get the crushing disappointment of it not being payday.
 

apathetic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,721
I'm sure she probably did, but they did have to go through that hassle and it's one less way they can make profit off of these things.

At the end of the day scalpers see these things as a payday and then get the crushing disappointment of it not being payday.

Sadly the people doing it now don't even need the level of commitment that she had, in that it's just having the right bots and then changing the shipping addresses when they get ordered. I get no comfort from thinking about them missing out on this one thing since there is no downside to the shitty way they do things.

Literal leaches that provide no service to anyone, just insert themselves in the middle of a process like a bridge troll and make every part of the system worse for it. And they are part of like all of my hobbies. I've tried to find comfort in just not caring/apathy since I'm not able to delude myself into believing that they will stop or that anything is effecting them negatively.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,115
The Treehouse Live demonstration was kinda underwhelming, but a game like this seems hard to show in a vertical slice.

Can someone give me a better idea of what makes the combat system compelling here? Treehouse Live made it look like trial and error figuring out elemental weaknesses, and then hitting with those attacks to get extra turns within your turn, and repeating until you're out of MP or your character dies. And negotiations with demos looked like guesswork.

The video reveals had me excited for this, but Treehouse Live less so. Someone restore the hype!
 

TheBarbarian

Member
Oct 30, 2017
242
People only know what they've shown about this game, and you've watched the extent of it probably. Unless you mean the series in general? In which case, there are like 40 games that use the battle system/lore to check out all with their own spin on things.
 

HylianSeven

Shin Megami TC - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,017
The Treehouse Live demonstration was kinda underwhelming, but a game like this seems hard to show in a vertical slice.

Can someone give me a better idea of what makes the combat system compelling here? Treehouse Live made it look like trial and error figuring out elemental weaknesses, and then hitting with those attacks to get extra turns within your turn, and repeating until you're out of MP or your character dies. And negotiations with demos looked like guesswork.

The video reveals had me excited for this, but Treehouse Live less so. Someone restore the hype!
The Press Turn system basically works like this:

You get as many turns for the party members you currently have out, so if you have 4, you get 4 turns.

Exploiting a weakness or getting a critical only uses half the turn, and makes the icon flash. Choosing to pass does the same thing. If all the icons are already flashing, no matter what you do, the icon will disappear on your action.

If you're able to exploit weaknesses four times, you can act up to eight times in one turn.

Triggering a nullification, repel, or drain can remove two or more press turns. I don't know for sure how it will be in this game, but if it's like previous games, it should be null is 2 icons, and repel/drain is all of them. Sometimes the best offense can be the best defense, whether that's using reflection skills, or just having one demon that is strong against what the enemy is using. There's a particular boss in SMTIV that uses something that inflicts 4-5 ailments at once on your entire party, but if you have a demon that blocks/repels/drains ANY of those ailments, he loses his turns from attempting to do that.

Bosses are more of a puzzle. The only time you're likely to run out of MP is just going through many battles in the field/dungeons. Bosses are almost never a case of "keep using your strongest thing until you're out of MP". Buff/debuff spells are critical and nothing to sneeze at. They can be the difference between winning and losing. If you have a demon with a weakness to what the enemy is using, you need to fuse that dead weight for something better or switch it out as it's just going to get you killed.

Negotiations can be a bit of guesswork, but are often based on the demon's personality and have some consistency. If you already have the demon you're facing off against (and it's not a boss), you can actually talk to that demon, they'll recognize that you have one of their "friends" and leave, maybe even giving you a gift.
 

brinstar

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,257
The Treehouse Live demonstration was kinda underwhelming, but a game like this seems hard to show in a vertical slice.

Can someone give me a better idea of what makes the combat system compelling here? Treehouse Live made it look like trial and error figuring out elemental weaknesses, and then hitting with those attacks to get extra turns within your turn, and repeating until you're out of MP or your character dies. And negotiations with demos looked like guesswork.

The video reveals had me excited for this, but Treehouse Live less so. Someone restore the hype!
If you're not into turn-based RPGs there's not much we can say here. The twist on it in this game is you can get extra actions by nailing enemy weaknesses, but the enemy can do the same to you. So you want to become familiar with the demons you're fighting to minimize risk. Enemies are more dangerous in SMT so you need to make use of all your tools in battle--buffs, debuffs, status effects, elemental weaknesses and even talking to the enemies. Sometimes you can talk to the demons to defuse the situation or get them to join your party. For example if you have a demon in your party and you're fighting the same demon on the field in most games they'll just let you go if you talk to them.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,115
The Press Turn system basically works like this:

You get as many turns for the party members you currently have out, so if you have 4, you get 4 turns.

Exploiting a weakness or getting a critical only uses half the turn, and makes the icon flash. Choosing to pass does the same thing. If all the icons are already flashing, no matter what you do, the icon will disappear on your action.

If you're able to exploit weaknesses four times, you can act up to eight times in one turn.

Triggering a nullification, repel, or drain can remove two or more press turns. I don't know for sure how it will be in this game, but if it's like previous games, it should be null is 2 icons, and repel/drain is all of them. Sometimes the best offense can be the best defense, whether that's using reflection skills, or just having one demon that is strong against what the enemy is using. There's a particular boss in SMTIV that uses something that inflicts 4-5 ailments at once on your entire party, but if you have a demon that blocks/repels/drains ANY of those ailments, he loses his turns from attempting to do that.

Bosses are more of a puzzle. The only time you're likely to run out of MP is just going through many battles in the field/dungeons. Bosses are almost never a case of "keep using your strongest thing until you're out of MP". Buff/debuff spells are critical and nothing to sneeze at. They can be the difference between winning and losing. If you have a demon with a weakness to what the enemy is using, you need to fuse that dead weight for something better or switch it out as it's just going to get you killed.

Negotiations can be a bit of guesswork, but are often based on the demon's personality and have some consistency. If you already have the demon you're facing off against (and it's not a boss), you can actually talk to that demon, they'll recognize that you have one of their "friends" and leave, maybe even giving you a gift.
What is "the icon?"

If you're not into turn-based RPGs there's not much we can say here. The twist on it in this game is you can get extra actions by nailing enemy weaknesses, but the enemy can do the same to you. So you want to become familiar with the demons you're fighting to minimize risk. Enemies are more dangerous in SMT so you need to make use of all your tools in battle--buffs, debuffs, status effects, elemental weaknesses and even talking to the enemies. Sometimes you can talk to the demons to defuse the situation or get them to join your party. For example if you have a demon in your party and you're fighting the same demon on the field in most games they'll just let you go if you talk to them.
I like turn-based games, but I disagree with your first sentence implying they're all the same, which is why I'm trying to understand the level of skill/strategy/agency here vs. shooting in the dark without any way to gain info other than making mistakes.
 

brinstar

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,257
I like turn-based games, but I disagree with your first sentence implying they're all the same, which is why I'm trying to understand the level of skill/strategy/agency here vs. shooting in the dark without any way to gain info other than making mistakes.
I don't think they're all the same, I play them almost exclusively these days lol. And it doesn't feel like shooting in the dark because you only have to figure out their strengths/weaknesses once and the game will mark them afterward. If you have that demon it will also mark them.
 

KujoJosuke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,741

There's usually icons in the top right corner that represent your number of turns.

Also in regards to figuring out Weaknesses, sometimes you can guess just by looking. A Jack Frost is gonna be weak to Agi (fire spell), for example. And once you've hit them, usually if you press a button you can see their current visible weaknesses/nulls/repels.

Or if you get them to join you or fuse them, you can just look at the demon you have and any you encounter in the field will have matching weaknesses.

So it can be trial and error but there is quite a few ways to figure things out.
 

NabiscoFelt

One Winged Slayer
Member
Aug 15, 2019
7,619
What is "the icon?"


I like turn-based games, but I disagree with your first sentence implying they're all the same, which is why I'm trying to understand the level of skill/strategy/agency here vs. shooting in the dark without any way to gain info other than making mistakes.
Shooting in the dark and making mistakes is generally the way to go, honestly (at least in my experience with the series)

Usually a boss fight goes: go in, get demolished but use the time to gather information on the bosses' attacks and weaknesses, then go back in with an actual strategy and wreck the boss. Though if the boss is a demon you've encountered beforehand you can skip the first step. Not sure how this is much different than your typical turn based RPG though, there's very few I've played wherr you can guess how a boss will play out before fighting it.

Demon negotiation is the same way but with more RNG.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
What is "the icon?"


I like turn-based games, but I disagree with your first sentence implying they're all the same, which is why I'm trying to understand the level of skill/strategy/agency here vs. shooting in the dark without any way to gain info other than making mistakes.
Just watch the E3 videos. Hylian's explanation + a video and it should make sense. Plus the UI makes it clear how many actions you have left and the current weakness you've figured out
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,546
The Treehouse Live demonstration was kinda underwhelming, but a game like this seems hard to show in a vertical slice.

Can someone give me a better idea of what makes the combat system compelling here? Treehouse Live made it look like trial and error figuring out elemental weaknesses, and then hitting with those attacks to get extra turns within your turn, and repeating until you're out of MP or your character dies. And negotiations with demos looked like guesswork.

The video reveals had me excited for this, but Treehouse Live less so. Someone restore the hype!

I think the treehouse gave too much focus on the press turn and exploring weaknesses. I understand they wanted to explain the system, but the game is so much more than that.

The press turn system coexists with a robust roster of demons with different strengths/weaknesses and skills, and you can fuse the demons and have their skills transfered to create the perfect customized demon, until you gain access to new stronger demons and the cycle repeats.

Negotiating with demons is random for the most part, but it is consistent: each species has a set personality so as you try to get a demon talking to it over different battles, you will start to get a grasp of how it will react. Some games also carry your progress over battles (of you started to befriend a demon in one battle but didn't manage to recruit it, you will start where you left off in the next one), but I don't know if that will be the case for SMTV.

The press turn system is important and is fun, but battle are more than that. You won't be actively doin trial and error every battle like the treehouse demo made it look like. It's more like "hey, this is a new dungeon, i don't know these demons yet, let's hope they don't kick my ass before I can figure what their weaknesses are". It's nice when you get to explore a weakness but most of the time you will have to do without it, and regular attacks work just fine.

Also the game has a nice buff/debuff system and it's critical for boss battles, so it also adds depth.

The gameplay loop is basically: get to a new area, get your ass whooped, try to barely survive to recruit some new demons with useful abilities, fuse new demons, start to learn their weaknesses, now you're badass and will obliterate the demons in the area (but don't get too cocky, you still might die if you don't pay attention), fight the boss, get your ass whooped, figure out how to build your party to kill the boss, kill the boss, repeat.
 

PancakeFlip

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,914
While it's not really indication, the trailer that was at the Switch conference in 2017 had Thor in that group of demons using his most well known design, the one used in Nocturne and the other PS2-era games. If I remember correctly, BDSM Angel was not in that group in that trailer.

In the IV duology they used this Thor:

latest
The Nocturne one is waaay better, more personally stylized.
 

RPG_Fanatic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,622
I hope there will be more change for Canadians to pre-order the premium edition. By the time I found out about the premium edition, I had already missed my window to pre-order it.
 

Marmoka

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,010
Did any link in Europe come out today? Or nothing like always? Guess we will have to wait till Monday for now.

I'm really happy because many of you guys are able to preorder it in the other side of the world. Good to know that you are winning to scalpers. Let's go!!!
 
Jun 24, 2019
6,363
Watching these daily demon vids has become a morning ritual

There's much to appreciate, from the animations to the dynamic demon vocals
 
Nov 1, 2020
685
So thanks to Feng Huang/Houou, we see that Fire Breath and Wind Breath are random 2-5 (small) hits. 20 mp at +4 and 21 mp at +2.
IIRC, Mermaid's Stormcaller Song (+3) is 3-6 (small) hits. It's actually also cheaper too; 15 mp. So it seems to be a slightly better and cheaper reskinned ice breath, instead of an exactly reskinned ice breath. Assuming that each hit is the same strength as a standard breath hit, of course.

Feng Huang's Media (+3) in this vid costs 22 mp, while Angel's Shukufuku/Blessing (+2) costs 11 mp. So that is either 'Media, but a lot cheaper' or 'weaker and cheaper Media'.

Regular -kaja skills are now single target and last 3 turns, huh.
 

Zarzolaon

Member
Mar 16, 2018
2,282
OH
I'm fine with them changing to ma- buff/debuff spells, but can they still stack? And I'm wondering if the unique variations, like war cry and fog breath, fall under multi or single now.
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,371
The Nocturne one is waaay better, more personally stylized.
The Nocturne one is too goofy to me since it's basically turning a misinterpreted sprite into a design of its own.

What SMT 1 Thor was meant to look like

What he actually looked like in-game (because part of the sprite was shared with other demons)

Then you have the Nocturne design which seems like a clear attempt to turn the Thor sprite into its own design even though it ends up resembling "Thor" much less than it should.
 
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