I was trying to get Chaos and following a FAQ... which was mirrored and lead me into Law. Whoooops.
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Shin Megami Tensei |OT| Choose a new Reason
- Thread starter HylianSeven
- Start date
Yeah, I home in on neutral.
The thing with IV is I felt they tried to present the apocalyptic choices as more reasonable than they have in the others I've played. Nocturne's paths were defined by your friends becoming distorted and maddened: their paths came across to me as horrendously surreal. It helps this feeling that the conflict was incredibly abstract with there being pretty much no humans. As does the neutral ending cinematic.
In IVA it felt like I just sort of had to be a complete monster at a certain point.
In IV, you had the conflict of interests between Jonathan and Walter fester and grow until they came to value other things and than if you didn't have the neutral option it was like there was no good choice and you had to choose to share one of your friend's values. Moreover, this conflict started in very real differences in station and relationship to Mikado, so it felt very grounded, even if ultimately they were making the same sort of horrific, apocalyptic choices.
The thing with IV is I felt they tried to present the apocalyptic choices as more reasonable than they have in the others I've played. Nocturne's paths were defined by your friends becoming distorted and maddened: their paths came across to me as horrendously surreal. It helps this feeling that the conflict was incredibly abstract with there being pretty much no humans. As does the neutral ending cinematic.
In IVA it felt like I just sort of had to be a complete monster at a certain point.
In IV, you had the conflict of interests between Jonathan and Walter fester and grow until they came to value other things and than if you didn't have the neutral option it was like there was no good choice and you had to choose to share one of your friend's values. Moreover, this conflict started in very real differences in station and relationship to Mikado, so it felt very grounded, even if ultimately they were making the same sort of horrific, apocalyptic choices.
Part of me wants to entertain the notion of chaos in SMT II, but who am I kidding. I ordered the official guide off of Amazon. I also tried to look for SMT IV at Book Off today, but they only had Final.
The problem here is that they are supposed to use the D&D alignment system which has 2 dimensions (law-neutral-chaos x good-neutral-evil) but they only did one dimension (law-neutral-chaos) which doesn't always make sense.
They wanted to simplify the system but ended up making it confusing.
So yeah, it's flawed.
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Yeah, I just figured I'll see what I end up with without any guides because clearly this alignment thing is puzzling.
Anyway, another dilemma. I keep on letting all my demons learn all their skills but this in turn makes my slots full, but when I do try to fuse, it seems my choices are poor(like why are two magic demons forced to be a Brute) so in the end I end up with a ton of them just there without a glimmer of hope in fusing them upwards.
Add to that the fact they all like to somehow combine with the angel demons(Virtue right now), but I've been keeping it so it can transform. Should I just stop overthinking it and fuse like a madman? Though one good thing is most of my demons are pretty well rounded, some of them even have multiple breaths, and most of them are leveling up my own skills. Also one more good thing, the grind doesn't even feel that bad because I'm working towards another goal other than leveling myself, which is trying to fuse all these demons.
Anyway, another dilemma. I keep on letting all my demons learn all their skills but this in turn makes my slots full, but when I do try to fuse, it seems my choices are poor(like why are two magic demons forced to be a Brute) so in the end I end up with a ton of them just there without a glimmer of hope in fusing them upwards.
Add to that the fact they all like to somehow combine with the angel demons(Virtue right now), but I've been keeping it so it can transform. Should I just stop overthinking it and fuse like a madman? Though one good thing is most of my demons are pretty well rounded, some of them even have multiple breaths, and most of them are leveling up my own skills. Also one more good thing, the grind doesn't even feel that bad because I'm working towards another goal other than leveling myself, which is trying to fuse all these demons.
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It's playable. Not the ideal version, but perfectly playable.
I believe all the Atlus games have some emulation issues on PS3. Persona 3 I'm noticing some stuff flashing that definitely shouldn't be.
But the law route bring us this amazing moment of
Satan judging God in the most awesome fashion...
and the cost was just end the life in Earth thanks to the activation and use of the Megiddo Arc!
and the cost was just end the life in Earth thanks to the activation and use of the Megiddo Arc!
Oh shit, I'm horrible :(
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I feel like both sides are presented pretty well in most of the games. SMTIV does a particularly good job of it showing you what society could look like after law and chaos. It presents both in a light showing what's wrong with both sides by putting you in the position of disadvantage with both alignments.
I feel like even though the games usually portray both sides as potentially equally destructive for humanity, law usually has a far less "ethical" premise. Like in IV for example both end up with humanity being essentially reigned by someone with higher power (god for law and demons in general for chaos), but law essentially is about fighting for a neo nazi regime led by angels and chaos makes you fight for human freedom that sadly has the side effect of giving demons free reign.
I guess it has to do with how canonically shitty Yahweh is, but they could still make his representatives sympathetic like in Devil Survivor. I mean lol, Walter in IV is all about revolution against oppression while Jonathan is just "classism is fine, my low class friends!".
Basically chaos usually is about a good cause that sparks tragedies while law is inherently immoral most of the time.
I guess it has to do with how canonically shitty Yahweh is, but they could still make his representatives sympathetic like in Devil Survivor. I mean lol, Walter in IV is all about revolution against oppression while Jonathan is just "classism is fine, my low class friends!".
Basically chaos usually is about a good cause that sparks tragedies while law is inherently immoral most of the time.
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On that note, I love that the SMTIV costumes in Persona 5 had Morgana as one of the white. That was really cool.
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Oh... That makes more sense but I like believing he is the White
I'm a little surprised they had no Strange Journey or Apocalypse costumes. Make Makoto be Asahi, Ryuji as Hallelujah, Yusuke as Gaston, Ann as Nozomi, Haru as Isabeau, Morgana as Chiro, Futaba as Dagda (IMO in the base SMTIV set Futaba should have been Burroughs).
The reason that always seemed to me the most "angelic" was actually the Assembly of Nihilo in Nocturne. Always came across as a particular idea of heaven as an assimilation into God. The one and the many in perpetual concord and all.
The angels in that game were, however, all Might=Right, and gathered around the reborn Mantra. It was mostly demons in the Assembly of Nihilo. This always struck me as somewhat odd, tbh.
I mean, the original Mantra is a pretty clear "Chaos" cause. The strong rise to the top of the heap and seize control, oppressing the weak. This is the sort of world Walter wanted ultimately--not the world of the meek, but the world where the downtrodden strong could usurp their "rightful" place as also on top of the pecking order. But then the Mantra sort of shifts and you have this sort of "high-borns will purge the scummy low-borns" ideology. And this is the sort of "Law" path that you get in IV. You wipe out Tokyo life for the sake of the privileged few in Mikado. They have a right to exist by birth, not by strength. With the reformed Mantra in Nocturne, there is also a presumption of inborn superiority--and there is plenty of that in Mikado--but Jonathan is more presented as wanting to save his particular people, to whom he feels obliged and a sacred duty.
I mean, the original Mantra is a pretty clear "Chaos" cause. The strong rise to the top of the heap and seize control, oppressing the weak. This is the sort of world Walter wanted ultimately--not the world of the meek, but the world where the downtrodden strong could usurp their "rightful" place as also on top of the pecking order. But then the Mantra sort of shifts and you have this sort of "high-borns will purge the scummy low-borns" ideology. And this is the sort of "Law" path that you get in IV. You wipe out Tokyo life for the sake of the privileged few in Mikado. They have a right to exist by birth, not by strength. With the reformed Mantra in Nocturne, there is also a presumption of inborn superiority--and there is plenty of that in Mikado--but Jonathan is more presented as wanting to save his particular people, to whom he feels obliged and a sacred duty.
I was surprised by the lack of internal conflict between Jonathan and Walter in your party during SMT IV. I don't know if their lack of extremist standpoints were a good or a bad thing. Spoiler tags just in case:
Completely different topic: I wish more games used Devil Survivor 2's NG+ system. At least IV and Apocalypse let you choose between reincarnation (everything carries over) and new life (only basic stuff carries over), but the method of rewarding points depending on how well you did and letting you choose the stuff you want to carry over was great.
You can tell from the get-go which alignment they represent and I had expected them to squabble quite a bit over the course of the game. But they act entirely civil to each other and don't protest when your decisions don't match up with their believes. Then suddenly Walter announces he agrees with Lilith and he and Jonathan violently clash. You're forced to pick a side, go to Camp Ichigaya and meet both of them in Blasted Tokyo... and suddenly they're back to their civil selves. Maybe I'm used to the extreme standpoints usually showcased by Chaos/Law characters in video games, but it all felt a bit too nuanced. It felt like Walter only picked Lilith's side because the story demanded it. Likewise, it was a big jump from Jonathan and Walter's behavior in Blasted/Infernal Tokyo to them willingly sacrificing themselves to power up Merkabah and Lucifer just afterwards.
It doesn't help that the game doesn't feel the need to elaborate on their final decision in the neutral route. You wouldn't even know they were part of Lucifer/Merkabah if they hadn't appeared in their human form just before the boss fights.
I did like the Blasted/Infernal Tokyo concept in general and specifically how both Akira's eventually decided the world needed more of the opposite from what their Tokyo was meant to represent.
It doesn't help that the game doesn't feel the need to elaborate on their final decision in the neutral route. You wouldn't even know they were part of Lucifer/Merkabah if they hadn't appeared in their human form just before the boss fights.
I did like the Blasted/Infernal Tokyo concept in general and specifically how both Akira's eventually decided the world needed more of the opposite from what their Tokyo was meant to represent.
I love how Morgana gets all the silly costumes. Everyone looks stylish as Catherine's cast while he is forced to wear a ram costume.
Completely different topic: I wish more games used Devil Survivor 2's NG+ system. At least IV and Apocalypse let you choose between reincarnation (everything carries over) and new life (only basic stuff carries over), but the method of rewarding points depending on how well you did and letting you choose the stuff you want to carry over was great.
They really skimped out mainline SMT. No Apocalypse, no Nocturne/SMT3, no SMT 1, no SMT2, no Strange Journey. Just ...if and SMTIV, if I remember right? Was surprised Raidou got representation. Shame about the lack of Soul Hackers, Eternal Punishment and Digital Devil Saga as well.
I bought the P2: Innocent Sin DLC just to listen to the music again.
If has a bigger cast than most of the others, probably why they picked it. No complaints here, their uniforms are boss.
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That and if... kind of led into the Persona series so it makes sense to show it's roots.
No Nocturne is also a weird decision, as they straight up make a reference to it in a P5 dungeon.
The battle arena you have to go though is just Joker by himself against three battles, and the third one is Thor.
Nocturne's Mantra trial has the protagonist with his demons fight three battles in an arena, an the third one is Thor. Both games use the same Kaneko design of Thor.
Nocturne's Mantra trial has the protagonist with his demons fight three battles in an arena, an the third one is Thor. Both games use the same Kaneko design of Thor.
Where would you get enough costumes from, though? Demi Fiend, Isamu, Chiaki, Hikawa, Yuko... I guess it's doable if you include demons.
I think Makoto as Isabeau would be a better fit character-wise. Futaba could be Asahi since their English VA's are the same and Asahi is also a support character. Haru could be Toki then, I guess? They have a crush on the main character in common, at least. Morgana could be Navarre, since you don't see Chiro a lot in the game and it fits with him drawing the short straw when it comes to customes (green Morgana with a pompadour, just imagine it).
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Demi Fiend
Isamu
Chiaki
Hikawa
Hijiri
A manikin
Dante (if they can sidestep trademark or have another deal with Capcom)
Raidou?
Fiends (Iconic ones like Matador or Daisoujou)
Morgana as a Jack Frost
SMTIV didn't have enough humans that we're important enough to get individual costumes, so they had characters in just generic Samurai outfits. They could have more Manikins or make Ryuji another Demi-Fiend
But ...if is an alternative sequel to SMT1 right? Or am I remembering that wrong?
Hell yeah, also get the MC as Demi Fiend, get one of them dressed up as Lucifer and another as his mysterious assistant. They could easily have done it as the rest. Hashino directed the game so he'd have made it work. DDS would also have worked (another Hashino directed game). So would Devil Survivor, come to think of it.
...if's mechanics and school setting are a precursor to Persona. The protagonist from ...if even shows up in Persona 1 and 2.
I think it's an alternative to SMT1 altogether actually, but regardless, the female protagonist of If... shows up in both P1 and 2 as Tamaki. And it's also considered kind of a transition title between SMT and Persons due to the high school setting.
Classism in IV is neutral/chaos aligned though. It came due to Akira's rule of Mikado, and the angels immediately put an end to it once returning to power... that just receives no focus in the main story at all. You'll only learn about it if you talk with the npcs before going to meet the angels, and Walter has no reaction to it, which is just baffling considering how big that was for his character.
Oh yeah I knew about ...if's connection with P1 (Tamaki), for some reason I thought that SMT1 was connected to ...if in some way as well. Must have remembered it wrong. Also like how two different variations of Jack Frost answered me, come on and answer properly next time! End it with a nice "Hee Ho!" :P
...if is also connected to SMT1. The original conceit of the game was that ...if took place in a universe where the apocalypse didn't happen.
This gets elaborated later on in Devil Summoner where it's said that Gotou was arrested and Thorman improved relations between Japan and America.
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Ah yeah that was it. Very interesting and cool how much MegaTen games connect with each other but still keep their own self contained storylines.
So I have a question about the DDS feature in Apocalypse. Some people have an icon of Aquila's statue on their streetpass cards, but it comes in two colors: bronze and gold. I figured it had to do with the save import feature; people who played SMT IV get that icon. But what exactly decides what color you get?
I ask because in my first playthrough I imported an incomplete save from SMT IV, from the playthrough that had me ragequit before the Minotaur. That gave me a bronze icon. So I figured I'd do the save import thing again now that I have completed SMT IV... but the icon stays bronze (while I do get the title for the neutral ending). So now I wonder if you only get the gold icon with a save file that has seen all the endings.
I ask because in my first playthrough I imported an incomplete save from SMT IV, from the playthrough that had me ragequit before the Minotaur. That gave me a bronze icon. So I figured I'd do the save import thing again now that I have completed SMT IV... but the icon stays bronze (while I do get the title for the neutral ending). So now I wonder if you only get the gold icon with a save file that has seen all the endings.
Playing SMT1. I didn't play if for some days because I didn't have enough time, but now I'm back.
I beated the first boss and unlocked the first terminal. And the dog disappeared.
I think I teleported to Sendagaia. It's my second time with this game and it's being a lot easier than the first time, now that I understand the mechanics. What I remember for sure, is that shit gets real now!!
Wish me luck!!
I beated the first boss and unlocked the first terminal. And the dog disappeared.
I think I teleported to Sendagaia. It's my second time with this game and it's being a lot easier than the first time, now that I understand the mechanics. What I remember for sure, is that shit gets real now!!
Wish me luck!!
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I'm at the same place and I'm lost. When should I start summoning demons or is that something that can wait until later?
At least get a Goblin if memory serves, they have good buff skills that will help, though most of the early game bosses go down in a couple rounds.
I'm gonna be honest, it's gonna get much worse. I love SMT1, but the dungeons are hell.
SMT2 is an easier game, but the story isn't nearly as good, IMO.
If that's the case I think I'll drop it. I'm getting nowhere and it's really frustrating.
Shame that, but I'm not having fun, so I'll give SMT2 a whirl instead.
Maybe if I get an iPad or something I'll try that version.
Try taking a break and coming back to it. SMT1 is not a game you marathon. Dungeon at a time.
Yeah SMT1 is a game that's actually fairly short but super dense. It's only like a little more than 30 hours to beat it but i still played it over the course of like 3 months the first time around.
I could get a Goblin and a Pixie. Got Aeros after fusing both. Did this before going through the terminal. I suppose it's a good time now summoning them.
If you get stuck with the naming convention for SMT1:
https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/564896-shin-megami-tensei/43438948
I often keep the walkthrough on GameFAQs open to navigate some of the more complex maps/dungeons.
https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/564896-shin-megami-tensei/43438948
I often keep the walkthrough on GameFAQs open to navigate some of the more complex maps/dungeons.
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That's really bizarre. Definitely still pick up the original first though. Maybe you can get a BF deal on the physical version from Amazon or something.
I'm really glad they changed the title of Apocalypse from FINAL since "FINAL" sounds like an enhanced or special edition, which ironically Apocalypse started as an SMTIV DLC. Hopefully people know they are two completely different games though, I remember there was still confusion when Apocalypse's localization was announced.
I wonder if SEGA is going to have any effect on the speed of localization for SMTV. If I remember correctly Sega didn't acquire Atlus until shortly before Apocalypse was released. Since the Switch is region free, I kind of hope they can get the localization out faster and have multiple language support like I Am Setsuna's physical edition has. I got the Japanese version as a birthday gift and it plays in English on my Switch. There was no official English physical version.
That's what I'm planning to do when I go out shopping tomorrow. Strangely enough both Best Buy and Target don't have IV listed on their sites anymore, and Amazon doesn't have it discounted either. Hopefully I can actually find a copy of it.