I really hope we get the Japanese audio track and can disable voice acting. I also hope they have a prestine difficulty mode where you can just play the game as it was on the PS2. I'm fine with them adding an easier difficulty mode for those who want it, but I want that amazing challenge from the original.
I really hope we get the Japanese audio track and can disable voice acting. I also hope they have a prestine difficulty mode where you can just play the game as it was on the PS2. I'm fine with them adding an easier difficulty mode for those who want it, but I want that amazing challenge from the original that only complements the entire atmosphere of the game.
Yeah, SMT IV was my first SMT game, after having played P3 and P4 and it instaly made me fell in love with the SMT games in general, to the point where I like them more than the Persona series.
I'm currently thinking of going back to Strange Journey Redux because I got *stuck* on a boss and needed to grind and do some more demon fusion.
It definitely is. Not "spinoff" as in "different game/series under the same franchise umbrella" (example sentence: "Persona is a generally inferior spinoff of SMT"), but rather as in "alternate (hi)story in the same universe". You could call it a side story or gaiden if you prefer.
It's not considered that way by the developers, just like Strange Journey and Maniax. It was supposed to be an expanded re-release, and became a mainline "canon" (as much canon a SMT game can be) SMT game of its own in the end.
You might consider it differently, but that's not truthful to what it is.
It's not considered that way by the developers, just like Strange Journey and Maniax. It was supposed to be an expanded re-release, and became a mainline "canon" (as much canon a SMT game can be) SMT game of its own in the end.
You might consider it differently, but that's not truthful to what it is.
1.) Yes, it's a mainline game. Neither of us is disputing that.
2.) It's also a spinoff of IV focusing on minor/new characters and a full-blown alternate history of the latter portion of that game.
The two points are not incompatible, as I tried to note as straightforwardly as possible in the post you're quoting.
This isn't a question of canon; it's about how the game stands in relation to its predecessor. It's not a straight sequel, nor is it something entirely new. I could have said something like "sidequel", if you prefer. I don't see much point in continuing to hash this out, in any case.
I don't know what they were thinking with some of that Toki stuff, I wasn't referring to that but more when I see people say the game's more like Persona or whatever because the characters support one another, I dunno I just thought it worked for me. Stuff like Gaston snapping the Michael Spear was some of my favorite scenes across both games. I also loved how the game really got the sense across of what it feels like to live under the thumb of angels and demons in the beginning.
I can understand the criticism of how the plot plays out but I didn't feel that IV supported the two different ideologies so much as it wanted you to keep playing the game until you were able to reject them and IV:A felt like an extension of that. I liked being able to go backstage and punch out the guys behind the curtain I guess. Stuff like Satan didn't bother me because you find that out basically at the edge of existence itself, so I took it to be more like they're two sides of the same coin on a cosmic scale. I do agree that the alignment choices in the game are pretty laughable though.
I struggle with suicide and I was in a bad place when I played IV:A so I guess the more optimistic view of people it took touched me at the time and I can't help but feel a bit defensive of it lol. I don't mean to dismiss people's feelings about it or anything though
Yeah, I mean there's nothing wrong with liking the game, especially if it has a personal meaning to you. As a longtime fan of SMT's particular take on themes and storytelling, I found it to intensely disappointing. My only real point was that I think some people misunderstand what some of the complaints are. Like "it's too anime" doesn't just mean "they Persona-d it" to a lot of people, it's more about how the themes and writing feel more cliche. I always viewed SMT as a breath of fresh air from what I consider tired tropes and concepts, and Apocalypse leans HARD into those tropes and concepts.
Outside of SMTI, which established the Law/Chaos dynamic, IV has the most reductionist execution of SMT's endings system. II and especially III do so many more interesting things with the concept of competing motives and ideologies, and what you fault Apocalypse for (being only good where it borrows from a prior entry) is much more applicable to IV, which is basically a (loving) mishmash of I and II without the brevity and brooding atmosphere of the former or the motivational nuances of the latter.
Apocalypse is definitely not to everyone's taste, but what it does is far more original within the framework of SMT than what IV attempted (albeit while still being inspired greatly by SMTII, as you note). I'd argue it even redeems the flatness of IV's heroes to a certain extent by acknowledging how limited and unfulfilling their roles within IV's endings system actually are. Where Apocalypse arguably falters isn't so much in overall structure as in tone, although I found it more enjoyable than cringeworthy overall. Put quibbles aside, and you have a superior experience to IV in every way: more balanced and challenging gameplay, more tasteful, thoughtful, and consistent demon designs (following IV's mishmash of artist contributions), and a pantheon/pandemonium that gives significant agency to more than the usual JC deities.
While I would prefer that V return to Nocturne's less rigidly defined structure and more subtle storytelling (what little can be gleaned from the trailers gives some hope for Nocturne-inspired art direction, at least), I enjoyed Apocalypse as a spin-off in its own right, and especially as a correction to the glaring issues of IV.
Honestly, I just strongly disagree with basically everything you're saying. I loved IV, I think it has the best plot and characters of the entire series. (Nocturne and II have better themes and setting though). I've played through IV literally four times to get every ending. I feel like it's the first time the traditional Law and Chaos characters felt like actual characters with personalities rather than just mouthpieces for ideologies, but while still keeping the depth of the ideologies they represent. I think you're writing off a lot of things IV does that is original and a lot of things it does to refine the concepts of past games.
I've said basically all I can say about why I dislike Apocalypse's story and themes in comparison to IV in my previous post, so I won't repeat myself too much there. However, I will say that the fact you clearly don't like IV that much means we're approaching the subject from a completely different direction. I loved IV, and I feel that Apoc fumbles the good things it sets up and goes in the wrong direction. But if you dislike IV, I can see those things not bothering you as much.
This I actually agree with. It's a direct sequel. It doesn't follow any of the endings present in IV, instead presenting a "what if" scenario that changes the course of the story, but that doesn't make it any less of a direct sequel to me.
However, it was made by different people. Kazuyuki Yamai stepped down from both the Director and Writer position (though he is still involved somewhat as a Producer). Shinji Yamamoto doesn't appear to be involved in Apoc at all, though. In their place we get a Writer completely new to Megami Tensei... and writing in general it seems? I can't find any other writing credits for them beyond a minor planning role for MGS Ground Zeroes. You do get a new Director who has been a programmer on Nocturne, Digital Devil Saga, and the original IV though, which is probably why the battle system gets so much more refined.
So, not a spin-off, but I also don't blame anyone who doesn't want to count it as a sequel to IV due to the lack of people who made IV what it was.
Yeah I was definitely considering it anyway even if I can't read anything in the game. That lamp looks to be the size of a glade plug-in but looks cool as hell.
i might get it anyway without subs cuz i doubt it would be that difficult to get through again at this point but i think i am done with collectors editions, i am pretty sure every one i bought eventually made me feel dumb. will just grab a download on release
I've never played one of these games, but I'm willing to give the series a try based on how everyone gushes about it. I'm happy to hear theres a 'merciful' easy mode. Should be a good jumping off point!
It's 100% certain you can cancel pre-orders from Amazon.jp, right? I'd like to grab a special edition on the off chance there are English subtitles, but I don't want to be caught in a Play-Asia situation with all orders being final.
It's 100% certain you can cancel pre-orders from Amazon.jp, right? I'd like to grab a special edition on the off chance there are English subtitles, but I don't want to be caught in a Play-Asia situation with all orders being final.
Yeah, given the price of the CE, I'm skipping it, especially as it isn't my favorite SMT (still bummed to have missed out on the DSJ one though).
Will save that up for the V one.
And yeah, it's not getting english subs lol, or it'd release at the same time in the west.
It's 100% certain you can cancel pre-orders from Amazon.jp, right? I'd like to grab a special edition on the off chance there are English subtitles, but I don't want to be caught in a Play-Asia situation with all orders being final.
You can, but you will have to go to support. I know because I pre ordered the japanese Sega Genesis mini but I was short of cash. At the end they told me never do it again lol
I dont't expect this have english localization, otherwise it would have launched worldwide.
Yeah, you're all right about the simultaneous release and lack of subs in the trailer being a pretty big indicator. And after hearing you have to go through Amazon.jp support, I believe I'll pass. Thanks!
I'd be a lot easier on Apocalypse if it just jettisoned all the fucked up shit they did with Toki into the sun. Like I still think the rest of the writing completely misses the mark and that it's one of the poorest SMT games on that front and I'm still gonna criticize the hell out of it, but my stance on the writing would be elevated to dislike rather than its current stance of hatred.
Toki made sense to me when I first played Apocalypse because the game goes out of its way to make sure her behaviour is a result of her possession, and then she stops when it ends.
It never really occurred to me what they were probably trying to get across with her character, I just took it at face value for that first playthrough.
I wanna know if they legit hired someone to voice Demi for one line. That line was from a commercial, not the game.
Also I really hope whoever does justice to Lucifer and Metatron. The rest (and possibly Metatron too) will presumably have that distortion effect they apply to the demon voices since IV. I always really liked that effect.
It also sounds like it's being re-localized, which is probably for the better. Nocturne was the first mainline SMT released outside Japan. Many names and terms in the original are inconsistent with the rest of the series now. The original localization was not bad, but can definitely benefit from being consistent with the rest of the series.
The demon Fomorian was just "Fomor" in the original.
Take-Mikazuchi and Take-Minakata were just "Mikazuchi" and "Minakata".
Matador's signature skill is called Andalusia, which is a region in Spain and is spelled that way in English, but in Spanish is spelled "Andalucia". I could go either way on this one. In SMTIV Apocalypse it's Andalusia. In Nocturne it's Andalucia.
It also sounds like it's being re-localized, which is probably for the better. Nocturne was the first mainline SMT released outside Japan. Many names and terms in the original are inconsistent with the rest of the series now. The original localization was not bad, but can definitely benefit from being consistent with the rest of the series.
The demon Fomorian was just "Fomor" in the original.
Take-Mikazuchi and Take-Minakata were just "Mikazuchi" and "Minakata".
Matador's signature skill is called Andalusia, which is a region in Spain and is spelled that way in English, but in Spanish is spelled "Andalucia". I could go either way on this one. In SMTIV Apocalypse it's Andalusia. In Nocturne it's Andalucia.
Didn't they say cutscenes? The fiend introductions are definitely cutscenes.
Should I start with this, 4, or Strange Journey Redux as my first mainline SMT game? I'm beaten Persona 3-5 so I'm not completely new, but I've heard this games can be kinda hard.
I'd add onto this that you may want to play IV Apocalypse after IV. Just be warned that Apocalypse's plot, characters and writing take a hit in that game, however the gameplay is top notch.
I'd add onto this that you may want to play IV Apocalypse after IV. Just be warned that Apocalypse's plot, characters and writing take a hit in that game, however the gameplay is top notch.
Lol. All this direct and the reactions that followed it showed me was 3 things.
Who's a SMT fan and knows what the series is and has played games in the series.
People who have no idea what SMT is and haven't played a single game in the series.
Persona fans.
Granted its expected that not everyone is gonna be excited about this and the trailer for 5, but its interesting to see the difference between SMT fans and People who have no clue about the series. For me this announcement alone made the direct a 9 out of 10, with 5 making it a 10 out of 10
SMT fans really like to push the narrative of "ignorant Persona fans", but let's be real with ourselves. It's a niche series that has been overshadowed by another series that shares creature designs, spell names, and tons of gameplay concepts. Let's also acknowledge that when the games were originally released they were called:
Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne
Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3
If you only casually know of the latter as something with fans that want it on Switch and see "Shin Megami Tensei III", it makes sense to make some incorrect assumptions.
SMT3 live tomorrow :
QUOTE="ThatOneGuy831, post: 40370679, member: 5857"]
Lol. All this direct and the reactions that followed it showed me was 3 things.
Who's a SMT fan and knows what the series is and has played games in the series.
People who have no idea what SMT is and haven't played a single game in the series.
Persona fans.
Granted its expected that not everyone is gonna be excited about this and the trailer for 5, but its interesting to see the difference between SMT fans and People who have no clue about the series. For me this announcement alone made the direct a 9 out of 10, with 5 making it a 10 out of 10
[/QUOTE]
Only 3 cases, that's restrictive.
I'm none of the 3.
I know a few SMT games and Personas.
Didn't like most Persona I tried (I couldnt try 1 or 2) and played most of SMT3 and some part of both DDS .
I like the atmosphere but think the systems lack originality and are a bit too simplistic for me so I'm absolutely not a "SMT fan".
That's why I finished none back then (still came very far in at least 2 out of the 3)
But I have knowledge of generations and overall video games info to be able to guess it would be a SMT3 remaster, 1) when seeing the date stop on 2003 I was 99.99% sure. 2) I didn't see them port it with 0 lifting in this day and age with everyone talking number, resolution and whatever crap.
At this point I'm mostly happy because while I can't get 95% of the RPG I like the most (as the publishers don't care for them), I still can replay one I kinda liked back then and this time try to finish it.
And then I'm very intrigued by SMT5 in terms of mood and if they go original on the gameplay (farther than #FE would be great).
I'm 99% sure Nocturne does do this. I've tried rerolling stuff for ages in that game and every playthrough I encounter some skills that simply refuse to carry across.
Nocturne does this only to some extend.
You can't transfer a skill that requires a weapon or claws to a demon who hasn't a weapon or a claw. You can't transfer unique demon skills like Skurt's Ragnarok or Beelzebub's Death Flies.
I'm pretty sure you can transfer agi to jack frost though.
I think a cost system for skill transfer would be the best compromise. Having no limit just allows you to brake the game too easily. (Edit: while still keeping some inherent limitations of course, unique skills should be unique)
Yes Nocturne has skill inheritance limits. And no they shouldn't change which races or demons can inherit which abilities. Allowing you to pick from their current pool that's within their inheritance limits would be fine. That's a QoL feature that would just save time and not let you do more than you should be able to do.
I'm just excited for people to attempt Puzzle Boy puzzle 8 for the first time. I owned the Double Jump guide for the game and the solution to it was specifically incorrect (among a few other things).
