-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Shenmue III - SPOILER THREAD | Full Story & Game Spoilers
- Thread starter Ryo Hazuki
- Start date
The pretty lady on the boat to Niaowu is Niao Sun but she is dressed in normal clothes, not the all red dress and hair she has at the end. Near the end Niao Sun lures Shenhua to the Old Castle by lying to Shenhua telling her Ryo has been captured by the Red Snakes gang. Ryo, Ren, Bei, Hsu and the Shrine handmaiden storm the Old Castle after Bei provides a boat to get there.
Niao Sun takes Shenhua hostage and forces Ryo to give up the Phoenix Mirror to Niao Sun to save Shenhua. Niao Sun then tells Ryo that Lan Di is also in the Old Castle, Ryo immediately rushes off to find Lan Di. Ryo puts the Red Snake gang down for good by beating the huge muscular guy in the trailers.
Ryo fights Lan Di at the end of the game but he can't even touch him, Lan Di just effortlessly blocks everything or dodges every attack Ryo tries. While Ryo and Lan Di are fighting, Niao Sun betrays Lan Di and sets fire to the building and flees with the Phoenix Mirror, forcing Ryo and Ren to retreat.
The game ends up with Ryo, Ren and Shenhua walking along the Great Wall of China to get to a Chi You Men stronghold that Lan Di went to after the end of Shenmue III.
Niao Sun takes Shenhua hostage and forces Ryo to give up the Phoenix Mirror to Niao Sun to save Shenhua. Niao Sun then tells Ryo that Lan Di is also in the Old Castle, Ryo immediately rushes off to find Lan Di. Ryo puts the Red Snake gang down for good by beating the huge muscular guy in the trailers.
Ryo fights Lan Di at the end of the game but he can't even touch him, Lan Di just effortlessly blocks everything or dodges every attack Ryo tries. While Ryo and Lan Di are fighting, Niao Sun betrays Lan Di and sets fire to the building and flees with the Phoenix Mirror, forcing Ryo and Ren to retreat.
The game ends up with Ryo, Ren and Shenhua walking along the Great Wall of China to get to a Chi You Men stronghold that Lan Di went to after the end of Shenmue III.
Last edited:
OP
OP
Well. I will say the game was amazing. They nailed the atmosphere, the world, the feeling of Shenmue etc. It was all perfect. I can't help but feel a little underwhelmed about the story of the game. The ending left me feeling a little flat and I can only imagine this was down to budgetary and time constraints. There's a lot to process but I feel like outside of Shenhua's conversations no other character really got fleshed out enough for me to really connect with them.
Like in Shenmue II when you bring Ren, Joy etc with you to confront Lan Di at the rooftop it felt epic. Here I have no idea why the Shrine Maiden and the Hsu dude was even there. It felt weird watching some random shrine maiden hit people with a broom whilst you're scaling an epic castle to face Lan Di. Didn't feel right and I didn't care about them enough to have them be with me.
There's a lot of little things that left me a bit underwhelmed on the ending. Niao Sun now has the Phoenix Mirror which I don't mind. This is an interesting plot point as now technically the Phoenix Mirror and Dragon Mirror are both in the hands of those who represent them with Niao Sun being the Phoenix and Lan Di being the Dragon of the Chi You Men.
However, Niao Sun didn't really get enough screen time. We barely know nothing about her. Why did she betray Lan Di? What are her intentions? Where did her henchmen take the mirror? I don't think Ryo even learned her name.
Lan Di's main henchmen being taken out in one button QTE presses really bothered me. Watching the Bruce Lee type dude getting kicked in the face once by Ren got a laugh sure but you'd think Lan Di's personal henchmen would require an epic fight. The whole castle climb felt underwhelming due to the one hit henchmen and some oddly placed backer characters guarding Lan Di's room.
The final scene had a couple of lines of dialogue from Yuan but he was just telling us stuff we already knew? I was hoping for some really cool information about the mirrors, Iwao, anything. Instead we get a brief conversation and then we're scaling The Great Wall to take down Lan Di at a Chi You Men stronghold. That happened a bit fast? We just saw Lan Di in a burning building and now we're almost at a stronghold where apparently he's staying? Why is Shenhua there when she is now reunited with her father and doesn't have any other vested interest in Lan Di?
I don't know. I'm just rambling things off now. I know there's DLC upcoming so maybe that will shed some light on these things but yeah, amazing game but the story needed something more to keep the ending from feeling underwhelming.
Like in Shenmue II when you bring Ren, Joy etc with you to confront Lan Di at the rooftop it felt epic. Here I have no idea why the Shrine Maiden and the Hsu dude was even there. It felt weird watching some random shrine maiden hit people with a broom whilst you're scaling an epic castle to face Lan Di. Didn't feel right and I didn't care about them enough to have them be with me.
There's a lot of little things that left me a bit underwhelmed on the ending. Niao Sun now has the Phoenix Mirror which I don't mind. This is an interesting plot point as now technically the Phoenix Mirror and Dragon Mirror are both in the hands of those who represent them with Niao Sun being the Phoenix and Lan Di being the Dragon of the Chi You Men.
However, Niao Sun didn't really get enough screen time. We barely know nothing about her. Why did she betray Lan Di? What are her intentions? Where did her henchmen take the mirror? I don't think Ryo even learned her name.
Lan Di's main henchmen being taken out in one button QTE presses really bothered me. Watching the Bruce Lee type dude getting kicked in the face once by Ren got a laugh sure but you'd think Lan Di's personal henchmen would require an epic fight. The whole castle climb felt underwhelming due to the one hit henchmen and some oddly placed backer characters guarding Lan Di's room.
The final scene had a couple of lines of dialogue from Yuan but he was just telling us stuff we already knew? I was hoping for some really cool information about the mirrors, Iwao, anything. Instead we get a brief conversation and then we're scaling The Great Wall to take down Lan Di at a Chi You Men stronghold. That happened a bit fast? We just saw Lan Di in a burning building and now we're almost at a stronghold where apparently he's staying? Why is Shenhua there when she is now reunited with her father and doesn't have any other vested interest in Lan Di?
I don't know. I'm just rambling things off now. I know there's DLC upcoming so maybe that will shed some light on these things but yeah, amazing game but the story needed something more to keep the ending from feeling underwhelming.
My biggest issue having beat the game is just how little the plot actually advanced in this game, the environments are incredible and I enjoy exploring but most of the game is about chasing these Red Snakes thugs and Lan Di is barely even mentioned until the very end were Ryu gets his ass kicked again.
I honestly felt a bit snubbed and I think Yu Suzuki is needlessly extending the story since he now claims that we are only about half-way through.
And he tells the story in very small pieces at the time which started to get on my nerves like when you have to learn the super secret move to fight the red snake thug only to have it resolved fairly quickly once you get to him.
I also think they will struggle selling this game to non fans since I believe you have to be in order to enjoy it, the game feels strange in that the graphics have improved but the gameplay is stuck in the early 2000's, that was not necessary and they could have modernized the gameplay a little bit.
I honestly felt a bit snubbed and I think Yu Suzuki is needlessly extending the story since he now claims that we are only about half-way through.
And he tells the story in very small pieces at the time which started to get on my nerves like when you have to learn the super secret move to fight the red snake thug only to have it resolved fairly quickly once you get to him.
I also think they will struggle selling this game to non fans since I believe you have to be in order to enjoy it, the game feels strange in that the graphics have improved but the gameplay is stuck in the early 2000's, that was not necessary and they could have modernized the gameplay a little bit.
Definitely agree with the points above. What really annoyed me were the lack of character development from the Shrine Maiden, Niao Sun, or even Lan Di. I was expecting to at least find out who killed Sunming Zhao and how did the mirrors end up in Iwao's hands. What really ticked me off the most was how rushed the final section was considering Lan Di's henchmen were all pushovers. Coming off the infiltration of Yellow Head building in Shenmue 2 you would think it's going to be REALLY tough if you are going to get close to Lan FREAKING Di but nope. That was probably my biggest gripe. On a side note I already expected Ryo not to be strong enough to face Lan Di so no surprise there.
The last section felt like Yu simply ran out of money and had to duck tape it all together. With that being said he did amazing job altogether and proud of his team but man that last section really pissed me off but over time I've accepted it.
The last section felt like Yu simply ran out of money and had to duck tape it all together. With that being said he did amazing job altogether and proud of his team but man that last section really pissed me off but over time I've accepted it.
The of Seven Stars is a key for a puzzle in the Bell Tower, beyond that it doesn't get used again.
I will also agree that I was disappointed by how weak Lan Di's guards were. The backers should also been somewhere else other than guarding the room Lan Di is in. Maybe the Rose Garden fighting area instead.
I believe you need both mirrors to know the exact location of the treasure.
I find it fitting that Lan Di (emperor) has the dragon mirror and Niao Sun (empress) has the phoenix mirror
That sounds... extremely underwhelming? I thought the ending of 2 was cool for the stuff it teased, this seems pretty whack.
And given how little this game moved the needle on the overall story, I'm fairly confident it will never get an ending in game form. I'd be surprised if we get a Shenmue 4.
Well I completed it last night and I have to say that I am extremely dissapointed with the end "Assault" it was glaringly obvious that budget and funds were badly struggling to keep up with the idea and ambition.
A very short and small castle that was filled with pussy footsoldiers (this is a chi you men HQ wtf) who were layout in straight lines which was ridiculous, No midbosses other than Mr Muscles which was meh.
No fighting the blacksuits especially a certain 2 blacksuits which would have been satisfying, Niao Sun who had fooled Ryo and Shenhua which is fine but it was so obvious that after handing over the mirror what she was going to do.
Lan Di's henchmen in his room were pathetic.... Comedy tone whilst preparing to fight Lan Di? Fuck off.
The team that assemble to help Ryo like they are his best friends is ridiculous I felt next to no connection with any of them other than Ren which was clearly because of S2.
None of the fight scenes had that epic feeling, Master Hsu just throwing people over a balcony after being hit by a broom over and over again gtfo with that humour there's a time and place for it not whilst we are about to engage the man who killed the protagonists father....
Lan Di was some what cool but it was so underwhelming how much Ryo clearly sucked compared to him, like I completely get it Lan Di is a master but 3 games to see Ryo get close to killed if it wasn't for Ren so quickly and easily whilst being angry and throwing moves with wreckless abandon.
So he hasn't learned anything basically, it's almost like he has gone backwards from owning baihu and putting down a giant to struggling against Mr bailu muscles who is just a guy with a big right hand and Mr muscles niaowu version who was hardly a master.
I see why many people are saying S3 doesn't progress the story much because quite frankly that is true I feel very dissapointed that this is all we seen of 2 chi you men leaders in the whole game the sheer lack of action and interaction with people who could train and mentor Ryo was poor.
I really don't like how Niao Sun has been marketed over the years in interviews to be built up to a cameo appearance, if it wasn't For Yu and developers telling us her name we wouldn't even know she was called Niao Sun....
I still liked the game and what they achieved with a small budget is very impressive as a whole package but damn the whole end battle just totally dissapointed on another level of dissapointment.
The lack of action throughout the game in general felt off and their was very little character development which was ashame but man what a really bitter pill to swallow that ending was a joke.
I expected more from this game the lack of emotion and character development is disturbingly poor I can't even remember the names of some of the characters in game already.
Still feel overall that at least the game can be used as a stepping stone if 4 is made since they can learn from mistakes and complaints and at least the engine and assets are there now.
Edit - Why the hell was Chai even in this game his story is over Ryo has his number, it was a good opportunity to introduce a low to midlevel chi you men enemy who stalks Ryo through his journey and added some much needed 1 on 1 combat with tough opponents.
A very short and small castle that was filled with pussy footsoldiers (this is a chi you men HQ wtf) who were layout in straight lines which was ridiculous, No midbosses other than Mr Muscles which was meh.
No fighting the blacksuits especially a certain 2 blacksuits which would have been satisfying, Niao Sun who had fooled Ryo and Shenhua which is fine but it was so obvious that after handing over the mirror what she was going to do.
Lan Di's henchmen in his room were pathetic.... Comedy tone whilst preparing to fight Lan Di? Fuck off.
The team that assemble to help Ryo like they are his best friends is ridiculous I felt next to no connection with any of them other than Ren which was clearly because of S2.
None of the fight scenes had that epic feeling, Master Hsu just throwing people over a balcony after being hit by a broom over and over again gtfo with that humour there's a time and place for it not whilst we are about to engage the man who killed the protagonists father....
Lan Di was some what cool but it was so underwhelming how much Ryo clearly sucked compared to him, like I completely get it Lan Di is a master but 3 games to see Ryo get close to killed if it wasn't for Ren so quickly and easily whilst being angry and throwing moves with wreckless abandon.
So he hasn't learned anything basically, it's almost like he has gone backwards from owning baihu and putting down a giant to struggling against Mr bailu muscles who is just a guy with a big right hand and Mr muscles niaowu version who was hardly a master.
I see why many people are saying S3 doesn't progress the story much because quite frankly that is true I feel very dissapointed that this is all we seen of 2 chi you men leaders in the whole game the sheer lack of action and interaction with people who could train and mentor Ryo was poor.
I really don't like how Niao Sun has been marketed over the years in interviews to be built up to a cameo appearance, if it wasn't For Yu and developers telling us her name we wouldn't even know she was called Niao Sun....
I still liked the game and what they achieved with a small budget is very impressive as a whole package but damn the whole end battle just totally dissapointed on another level of dissapointment.
The lack of action throughout the game in general felt off and their was very little character development which was ashame but man what a really bitter pill to swallow that ending was a joke.
I expected more from this game the lack of emotion and character development is disturbingly poor I can't even remember the names of some of the characters in game already.
Still feel overall that at least the game can be used as a stepping stone if 4 is made since they can learn from mistakes and complaints and at least the engine and assets are there now.
Edit - Why the hell was Chai even in this game his story is over Ryo has his number, it was a good opportunity to introduce a low to midlevel chi you men enemy who stalks Ryo through his journey and added some much needed 1 on 1 combat with tough opponents.
I'm hoping the DLC will add more, because while I enjoyed Shenmue III, I need more. Hopefully the story DLC will give us that.
Last edited:
Remember we were suppose to get Baisha as the 3rd village where the Chi You Men resides but it got scrapped. Even during development where Yu was testing the fighting engine we saw Ryo square up against black suits but sometime during development it got scrapped. Yu alluded to having initial troubles learning the Unreal engine which probably stalled some development/money so they might have had to scrap Baisha for the castle area but it's all speculation. The final section definitely wasn't part of the initial plan which makes it disappointing. REALLY REALLY hope this game is successful.
Last edited:
I liked the game overall, but yeah echoing some other people I had some issues with it. You spend the whole game chasing "thugs" and looking for Shenhua's father and the overall series plot barely progresses until the very end of the game, which felt rushed. Having to farm money for two moves you don't even use during normal gameplay to defeat generic muscle guys was kind of lame, and I don't know why they bothered having the shrine maiden and the fat kung fu guy join you for the assault since they were barely any more relevant than the other NPCs you talk to a couple times during the game. Shenhua getting easily fooled by Niao Sun felt kind of dumb, too.
I finished the game last Sunday and been dying to talk about ending and Old Castle segment. I've had time to let the ending digest (For good measure I had an alternative save right before Ryo enlists Grandmaster Bei for a boat) so I also replayed the Old Castle section again. I think the operative word I have is disappointment. Particularly because I love Bailu and majority of Niaowu. I will leave story discussion for another post but I just wanted to highlight why the final section doesn't really work on most levels.
- Shenhua is captured, Niao Sun has tricked us and Ryo has been forced to enlist his friends help to save her. The stakes technically couldn't be higher, you enter the building and you are presented with a sidequest to retrieve 3 items for a pawnshop?! Like what? As a reminder this is the only gameplay in this final section outside fights and QTE (Unless you want to argue opening peep hole to find Mr. Yuan counts as gameplay). It doesn't make sense for the story and arguably you could have saved the pawnshop owner from one of the members of the Red Snakes and had that serve the same purpose but fit the narrative
- Chai as we will later see with other enemies goes down with one QTE button prompt. Like why was he in the game? Outside fan service what purpose did he serve? His involvement with the Bailu gang was supposedly to observe but for who? Red Snakes? Chi You Men? It's never really explained and he like everything else is quickly relegated to an afterthought
- I actually liked the cutscene introducing Niao Sun. It looked good and I understood why Ryo would give mirror to save Shenhua. Clearly there's a power struggle between Niao Sun and Lan Di, I assume as part of that power play she directs Ryo to the penultment building to face Lan Di
- Then we encounter enemy rush. I mean even on hard these guys go down with one attack, so it never felt like it was a struggle fighting through these waves of enemies. Worse still later we see Mr. Hsu and Shiling batter enemy after enemy comically taking away any sense of accomplishment or dread you would want the player to feel
- Then we enter the boss fight which is anticlimactic to say the least. The first time I played this the fight was over in about a minute (Again I was playing on hard). Oddly replaying it I lost first time and my second fight I had to use 3 bottle of Snake Tonic. There is no memorable dialogue, no real catharsis for a player overcoming him. Also I'm annoyed how the launch trailer basically spelt out conclusion with the fight with Mr. Muscles. It's like if they had showed counter elbow assault against Don Nui in one of the trailers for Shenmue 2.
- But wait there's one more fight with what I can only assume based on their appearance and ethnicities is a group of backers. Why in gods name were they placed here?! Remember this is the penultimate room before facing Lan Di. From none of information I've gleamed does Red Snakes or Chi You Men recruit other ethnicities. I thought most of the backer content was introduced tastefully while still respecting the 'reality' of Shenmue. This did not and tonally was a complete misstep. I feel even fans that donated to this level wouldn't want their integration to pull players out of the story but sadly it did
- Suddenly the scene shifts from late afternoon to night time. Was there a time skip, scene omitted? Who knows...
- We encounter Lan Di's friends, henchman, members of Chi You Men? Who knows because the game certainly doesn't bother telling us. The cut scene and choreography is actually pretty nice but you literally press one QTE button to take down each member. We are also meant to believe Ren who is anything but scrappy street brawler is able to easily best what I would assume to be a high level fighter. The whole thing feels like a bad parody
- The Lan Di encounter is mercifully short. I understand Ryo has revenge on his mind but maybe ask what proof Lan Di has that Iwao killed his father (I will get into this in my story discussion but since we learn the Chi You Men take him in, I assume this is a lie he has been fed by them). I was pleased to see Ryo isn't even close to his level and proficiency of martial arts. Again the cutscene and choreography is well done (Love the kick under arm hold he pulls off). Why he just decides to stand there when he clearly could quickly dispatch Ren and Ryo without a second thought as building crumbles is anyone's guess
- Despite the entire building being completely engulfed, Ren and Ryo I presume return right back where the fire potentially would be stronger. None of their escape is integrated in gameplay or shown. A dramatic QTE escape could have at least provided an exciting finish
I will cover the final scenes and discussion with Mr. Yuan in separate story post. However I think I've outlined the issues I had with the Old Castle. Clearly a lot of elements Suzuki discussed at the inception of the project were removed or axed. What they were able to achieve on small budget was incredible as Bailu and Niaowu feel like fully fleshed out Shenmue areas. The Old Castle does not.
Many of us were wildly speculating it could be like storming the Yellow Head Building and it had the setup of being just like that. Unlike the former which really took and incorporated every element of the game; exploration, QTE and multi-stage various QTE's, group and solo battles all while increasingly the tension and stakes. I don't know if it was case of not enough budget, ran out of time or cut content. To me it's clear the last section was not fully realized and that sours me to the experience of what is otherwise a very competent Shenmue game.
- Shenhua is captured, Niao Sun has tricked us and Ryo has been forced to enlist his friends help to save her. The stakes technically couldn't be higher, you enter the building and you are presented with a sidequest to retrieve 3 items for a pawnshop?! Like what? As a reminder this is the only gameplay in this final section outside fights and QTE (Unless you want to argue opening peep hole to find Mr. Yuan counts as gameplay). It doesn't make sense for the story and arguably you could have saved the pawnshop owner from one of the members of the Red Snakes and had that serve the same purpose but fit the narrative
- Chai as we will later see with other enemies goes down with one QTE button prompt. Like why was he in the game? Outside fan service what purpose did he serve? His involvement with the Bailu gang was supposedly to observe but for who? Red Snakes? Chi You Men? It's never really explained and he like everything else is quickly relegated to an afterthought
- I actually liked the cutscene introducing Niao Sun. It looked good and I understood why Ryo would give mirror to save Shenhua. Clearly there's a power struggle between Niao Sun and Lan Di, I assume as part of that power play she directs Ryo to the penultment building to face Lan Di
- Then we encounter enemy rush. I mean even on hard these guys go down with one attack, so it never felt like it was a struggle fighting through these waves of enemies. Worse still later we see Mr. Hsu and Shiling batter enemy after enemy comically taking away any sense of accomplishment or dread you would want the player to feel
- Then we enter the boss fight which is anticlimactic to say the least. The first time I played this the fight was over in about a minute (Again I was playing on hard). Oddly replaying it I lost first time and my second fight I had to use 3 bottle of Snake Tonic. There is no memorable dialogue, no real catharsis for a player overcoming him. Also I'm annoyed how the launch trailer basically spelt out conclusion with the fight with Mr. Muscles. It's like if they had showed counter elbow assault against Don Nui in one of the trailers for Shenmue 2.
- But wait there's one more fight with what I can only assume based on their appearance and ethnicities is a group of backers. Why in gods name were they placed here?! Remember this is the penultimate room before facing Lan Di. From none of information I've gleamed does Red Snakes or Chi You Men recruit other ethnicities. I thought most of the backer content was introduced tastefully while still respecting the 'reality' of Shenmue. This did not and tonally was a complete misstep. I feel even fans that donated to this level wouldn't want their integration to pull players out of the story but sadly it did
- Suddenly the scene shifts from late afternoon to night time. Was there a time skip, scene omitted? Who knows...
- We encounter Lan Di's friends, henchman, members of Chi You Men? Who knows because the game certainly doesn't bother telling us. The cut scene and choreography is actually pretty nice but you literally press one QTE button to take down each member. We are also meant to believe Ren who is anything but scrappy street brawler is able to easily best what I would assume to be a high level fighter. The whole thing feels like a bad parody
- The Lan Di encounter is mercifully short. I understand Ryo has revenge on his mind but maybe ask what proof Lan Di has that Iwao killed his father (I will get into this in my story discussion but since we learn the Chi You Men take him in, I assume this is a lie he has been fed by them). I was pleased to see Ryo isn't even close to his level and proficiency of martial arts. Again the cutscene and choreography is well done (Love the kick under arm hold he pulls off). Why he just decides to stand there when he clearly could quickly dispatch Ren and Ryo without a second thought as building crumbles is anyone's guess
- Despite the entire building being completely engulfed, Ren and Ryo I presume return right back where the fire potentially would be stronger. None of their escape is integrated in gameplay or shown. A dramatic QTE escape could have at least provided an exciting finish
I will cover the final scenes and discussion with Mr. Yuan in separate story post. However I think I've outlined the issues I had with the Old Castle. Clearly a lot of elements Suzuki discussed at the inception of the project were removed or axed. What they were able to achieve on small budget was incredible as Bailu and Niaowu feel like fully fleshed out Shenmue areas. The Old Castle does not.
Many of us were wildly speculating it could be like storming the Yellow Head Building and it had the setup of being just like that. Unlike the former which really took and incorporated every element of the game; exploration, QTE and multi-stage various QTE's, group and solo battles all while increasingly the tension and stakes. I don't know if it was case of not enough budget, ran out of time or cut content. To me it's clear the last section was not fully realized and that sours me to the experience of what is otherwise a very competent Shenmue game.
I'll be completely okay with the story once I hear that Shenmue IV has been green lit. I view this one as "let's get out of the cave, show that Ryo still has far to go as a martial artist, and develop Shenhua" while progressing the story just enough while Yu/team get experience with the engine/etc to really start off running with IV.
The battle on the castle is quite epic but it felt like the end of act 2. I wish they got the old voice actor back for Lan Di or an imitation, he was chilling. "Get up, I'll allow you to die like a warrior" It just didn't feel Lan Di, although I kind of like the ambiguity with how he reacted to losing the fake mirror. I'm disapointed we didn't get to fight Chai or Sun.
I agree the plot advanced slowly and the battle at the end seemed a tad rushed.
I'm okay with it if they make a good profit of this and keep going. With an x86 engine and a large database of modeling and textures, it should take significantly less time to make 4 *if* Yu wants to do it. I'd like to see more plot and a greatly expanded use of combat than just training, street fights, and the end.
I'm okay with it if they make a good profit of this and keep going. With an x86 engine and a large database of modeling and textures, it should take significantly less time to make 4 *if* Yu wants to do it. I'd like to see more plot and a greatly expanded use of combat than just training, street fights, and the end.
Did the rapport/affinity system not make it in then?
Just finished it and realised I never really had anything like that. Nobody talked to me differently and the only dialogue choice I remember was calling that old woman in Bailu beautiful or something else.
I feel the same as everyone else regarding how little it moved things on. I would have liked Ryo to fight and defeat one leader of the Chi You Men at least. Because if we're lucky enough to get a 4 he's going to have to do an awful lot of montage training to actually fit them into a game now.
Just finished it and realised I never really had anything like that. Nobody talked to me differently and the only dialogue choice I remember was calling that old woman in Bailu beautiful or something else.
I feel the same as everyone else regarding how little it moved things on. I would have liked Ryo to fight and defeat one leader of the Chi You Men at least. Because if we're lucky enough to get a 4 he's going to have to do an awful lot of montage training to actually fit them into a game now.
The closest is that in the first some people were a bit reluctant to talk to Ry when she shows up by himself in the first day, then on the second day when Shenhua vouches for him people are more willing to talk to him.
Though that said, the NPC's do become a lot more friendly to Ryo once he saves Yanxin and defeats the thugs in the Hermit's Nest.
I finally beat the game and enjoyed it for the most part, but the last stretch in Niaowu before the Old Castle tested my patience. Having to seek out multiple martial artists, then having to figure out what that guy's martial arts style way, then spending days gambling/farming herbs to earn 5000 yuan only to have to fight all of the ranked fighters in the dojo...
It's in this stretch of the game that virtually nothing story-related happens. It made me realize that I put up with Shenmue's weird gameplay because the story and world are compelling enough to offset that. Absent any real story developments, Shenmue actually falls apart into something uninteresting. I can only assume they were trying to prolong the game, but it had me seriously questioning my love for Shenmue during the last two decades.
Other thoughts:
It's in this stretch of the game that virtually nothing story-related happens. It made me realize that I put up with Shenmue's weird gameplay because the story and world are compelling enough to offset that. Absent any real story developments, Shenmue actually falls apart into something uninteresting. I can only assume they were trying to prolong the game, but it had me seriously questioning my love for Shenmue during the last two decades.
Other thoughts:
- Why does Ryo act like he doesn't recognize Chai? Moreover, why is Chai so gimped in this game?
- How did Ren know Ryo was going to Niaowu?
- The fact Ryo can even talk to everyone in the game is really baffling. I let it slide in Shenmue II as English-speaking Hong Kong people is plausible. But this time, we're in rural China in the 1980s! Even today there's very little possibility of speaking much English in the Chinese countryside. I think they should have made Ryo half-Chinese so it feels plausible for him to communicate with people in China, even if the VA is dubbed into English or Japanese.
- What did Shenhua do to that one boss in Bailu Village that had him willing to cooperate with their interrogation? I was hoping she'd unleash some hidden martial art before the ending.
So now that I've had a week to ruminate on the story and characters of Shenmue 3 I wanted to post some some of my thoughts and questions.
I think fundamentally looking back at the story the real issue I had wasn't that large overacting mysterious were not tied up in the game i.e. Did Iwao killed Zhao Sunming? What are Shenhua's 'powers', the meaning of the mirrors (Although we get more detail on that).
I felt the game suffered from lack of stakes, characters that felt much more shallow than previous entries, odd pacing and repetition. The Old Castle obviously wasn't able to be fleshed out like previous areas, so while some of this may sound overtly critical, reading impressions as new players have started playing this has reminded me how much I loved majority of Bailu and Niaowu.
So in no particular order;
- This will be a revolving complaint but did anyone feel Grandmaster Feng was severely under cooked as a character? I mean here you have someone that knew about both Iwao and Zhao Sunming. In addition was familar with Lan Di and his real identity. Yet to my knowledge had a very brief role and never really gets questioned in terms of what he knows, outside saying he's sure Iwao wasn't capable of murder
- I'm struggling to understand the timeline and chain of events in Bailu of the thugs. Obviously they were sent to gather the stone masons and look for the mirror. I admit the details could be fuzzy but when exactly was Yuan's kidnapped? I'm assuming it was shortly after he wrote the letter to Shenhua but was this after the rest of the stonemasons got attacked? I mean they turned Hermits nest into their base while they held Yanxin (Yuan's apprentice), and according to Shenhua continued to look for the mirrors. Were they also planning on handing him over to the Red Snakes?
- I've said this earlier but I feel like Chai's inclusion in this game was purely for fan service reasons. His involvement is confusing at best but nothing really benefited from his inclusion
- I absolutely loved the whole training section and character of Mr. Sun (In my opinion one of the games high point). Hearing NPC characters talk about how miserly he is, the relationships he's lost because of him skipping out on bills. It's endless and it's all fantastic. Then when you meet him as he teaches you Rooster Steps, commanding you to chase and pick up chickens. All while feeding his alcohol and food needs. I also thought it was a cool moment how much more self reflective and aware Ryo was that he speculated some of the menial tasks he was asked to do would ultimately help him learn Bodycheck
- Some of my favorite moments in the game was talking to Shenhua in the evening. I thought similar to Disk 4 in Guilin it did a lot to flesh out and humanize Ryo. That element is curtailed in Niaowu and honestly Shenua integration felt like an almost after thought and I was surprised how minimal her role was. I remember seeing her character just standing stationary outside the entrance of Blossom Road. Based on all the balcony chats I had with her it's clear they used the character to provide hints and tips for elements in Niaowu but in terms of narrative she is sort of just there
- Another element that felt completely under cooked was the Red Snakes themselves. I mean for a big chunk of Niaowu you essentially encounter just two members of the gang. Yet you are told of them destroying stores, temples among other places but rarely see any of this destruction take place. I mean they honestly felt like a phantom group, where as in previous games they were slowly built up and you encountered different elements and characters of said group (Think of Mad Angels or even the Heavens gang). Then when you think about the Yellowheads in comparison, they just don't stack up. Particularly when you see them get comically dispatched by your sidekicks in the Old Castle finale.
- I felt the story really dropped any sense of stakes and danger. I mean I've heard Shenmue overarching story is meant to emulate those of Wuxia stories and I've certainly watched my fair share of kung fu films. I understand it's a trope of the genre to be beaten up and essentially told your skills aren't up to par. Yet in previous games although it's not shown, death is insinuated in the case of Mark's brother and the Yellowheads certainly were out to kill you. Yet here as it happens twice in Bailu and then Niaowu you are soundly beaten and essentially are allowed to survive and leave. It kind of took away any dramatic tension there could be
- I feel that brings me to one of biggest issue I had with the game and that's essentially repetition of story beats. The way you overcome thug boss in Bailu is essentially the same with Mr. Muscles even down to performing the same move (I understand one is a reverse). Unlike the former where you had this amazing training sequence with Sun, Grandmaster Bei again is another character than gets very little development and learning this counter just doesn't feel earned
- By Li Feng's second scene I knew something was up with her and based on the Shenmue premiere video of Niao Sun I speculated it was her in disguise. What disappoints me was there was really no pay off. What she does behind the scene may be explored in future games but again because it's done off screen the revelation losses a lot of its impact
- The scene as Ryo strolls towards the harbour ready to take boat to the Old Castle and is surprisingly joined by his compatriots could have been this really powerful scene. Yet the underdevelopment of these characters again reduced what should have been this really triumphant event. Don't get me wrong I don't profess to exhausting every dialogue tree or have seen every side quest but to my knowledge your interaction with Mr. Hsu and Shiling (Shrine maiden) is relatively minimum. You can spar with Mr. Hsu and I completed a pretty basic side quest for her returning a scroll. I would love to know if there's more detailed interactions or events possible because as it stands both characters get the bare minimum of development
- Ren's part in Shenmue 3 feels inconsistent to say the least
- I did find it peculiar that after saving Shenhua that she and Ryo don't share a scene thanking or even acknowledging just what went down. I mean after all those lengthy conversations in Bailu you think a little moment shared together would be cathartic but again whole end feels rushed
So unanswered questions that immediately come to mind
- What exactly did Shenhua do to the thug in Bailu by herself? Hypnosis, mind control or something that doesn't have a supernatural/magical connotation? Some are saying it was meant to be a joke
- The scroll you get in tower in Bailu the last image includes mountain cliff, where we are told the hidden treasure is likely buried. The last scene with Yuan he says Chi You Men have taken over temple there, I assume that's where Ryo and company are traveling right at the end?
- We are told Dragon is emperor and Phoenix is empress. I find it interesting Lan Di has the Dragon mirror and Niao Sun has Phoenix mirror. Is that a coincidence?
- Niao Sun handed mirror to member of Chi You Men. Was he taking it somehere? To Tentei?
All in all I enjoyed really enjoyed the game I just wished the story wasn't as under developed as it was.
I think fundamentally looking back at the story the real issue I had wasn't that large overacting mysterious were not tied up in the game i.e. Did Iwao killed Zhao Sunming? What are Shenhua's 'powers', the meaning of the mirrors (Although we get more detail on that).
I felt the game suffered from lack of stakes, characters that felt much more shallow than previous entries, odd pacing and repetition. The Old Castle obviously wasn't able to be fleshed out like previous areas, so while some of this may sound overtly critical, reading impressions as new players have started playing this has reminded me how much I loved majority of Bailu and Niaowu.
So in no particular order;
- This will be a revolving complaint but did anyone feel Grandmaster Feng was severely under cooked as a character? I mean here you have someone that knew about both Iwao and Zhao Sunming. In addition was familar with Lan Di and his real identity. Yet to my knowledge had a very brief role and never really gets questioned in terms of what he knows, outside saying he's sure Iwao wasn't capable of murder
- I'm struggling to understand the timeline and chain of events in Bailu of the thugs. Obviously they were sent to gather the stone masons and look for the mirror. I admit the details could be fuzzy but when exactly was Yuan's kidnapped? I'm assuming it was shortly after he wrote the letter to Shenhua but was this after the rest of the stonemasons got attacked? I mean they turned Hermits nest into their base while they held Yanxin (Yuan's apprentice), and according to Shenhua continued to look for the mirrors. Were they also planning on handing him over to the Red Snakes?
- I've said this earlier but I feel like Chai's inclusion in this game was purely for fan service reasons. His involvement is confusing at best but nothing really benefited from his inclusion
- I absolutely loved the whole training section and character of Mr. Sun (In my opinion one of the games high point). Hearing NPC characters talk about how miserly he is, the relationships he's lost because of him skipping out on bills. It's endless and it's all fantastic. Then when you meet him as he teaches you Rooster Steps, commanding you to chase and pick up chickens. All while feeding his alcohol and food needs. I also thought it was a cool moment how much more self reflective and aware Ryo was that he speculated some of the menial tasks he was asked to do would ultimately help him learn Bodycheck
- Some of my favorite moments in the game was talking to Shenhua in the evening. I thought similar to Disk 4 in Guilin it did a lot to flesh out and humanize Ryo. That element is curtailed in Niaowu and honestly Shenua integration felt like an almost after thought and I was surprised how minimal her role was. I remember seeing her character just standing stationary outside the entrance of Blossom Road. Based on all the balcony chats I had with her it's clear they used the character to provide hints and tips for elements in Niaowu but in terms of narrative she is sort of just there
- Another element that felt completely under cooked was the Red Snakes themselves. I mean for a big chunk of Niaowu you essentially encounter just two members of the gang. Yet you are told of them destroying stores, temples among other places but rarely see any of this destruction take place. I mean they honestly felt like a phantom group, where as in previous games they were slowly built up and you encountered different elements and characters of said group (Think of Mad Angels or even the Heavens gang). Then when you think about the Yellowheads in comparison, they just don't stack up. Particularly when you see them get comically dispatched by your sidekicks in the Old Castle finale.
- I felt the story really dropped any sense of stakes and danger. I mean I've heard Shenmue overarching story is meant to emulate those of Wuxia stories and I've certainly watched my fair share of kung fu films. I understand it's a trope of the genre to be beaten up and essentially told your skills aren't up to par. Yet in previous games although it's not shown, death is insinuated in the case of Mark's brother and the Yellowheads certainly were out to kill you. Yet here as it happens twice in Bailu and then Niaowu you are soundly beaten and essentially are allowed to survive and leave. It kind of took away any dramatic tension there could be
- I feel that brings me to one of biggest issue I had with the game and that's essentially repetition of story beats. The way you overcome thug boss in Bailu is essentially the same with Mr. Muscles even down to performing the same move (I understand one is a reverse). Unlike the former where you had this amazing training sequence with Sun, Grandmaster Bei again is another character than gets very little development and learning this counter just doesn't feel earned
- By Li Feng's second scene I knew something was up with her and based on the Shenmue premiere video of Niao Sun I speculated it was her in disguise. What disappoints me was there was really no pay off. What she does behind the scene may be explored in future games but again because it's done off screen the revelation losses a lot of its impact
- The scene as Ryo strolls towards the harbour ready to take boat to the Old Castle and is surprisingly joined by his compatriots could have been this really powerful scene. Yet the underdevelopment of these characters again reduced what should have been this really triumphant event. Don't get me wrong I don't profess to exhausting every dialogue tree or have seen every side quest but to my knowledge your interaction with Mr. Hsu and Shiling (Shrine maiden) is relatively minimum. You can spar with Mr. Hsu and I completed a pretty basic side quest for her returning a scroll. I would love to know if there's more detailed interactions or events possible because as it stands both characters get the bare minimum of development
- Ren's part in Shenmue 3 feels inconsistent to say the least
- I did find it peculiar that after saving Shenhua that she and Ryo don't share a scene thanking or even acknowledging just what went down. I mean after all those lengthy conversations in Bailu you think a little moment shared together would be cathartic but again whole end feels rushed
So unanswered questions that immediately come to mind
- What exactly did Shenhua do to the thug in Bailu by herself? Hypnosis, mind control or something that doesn't have a supernatural/magical connotation? Some are saying it was meant to be a joke
- The scroll you get in tower in Bailu the last image includes mountain cliff, where we are told the hidden treasure is likely buried. The last scene with Yuan he says Chi You Men have taken over temple there, I assume that's where Ryo and company are traveling right at the end?
- We are told Dragon is emperor and Phoenix is empress. I find it interesting Lan Di has the Dragon mirror and Niao Sun has Phoenix mirror. Is that a coincidence?
- Niao Sun handed mirror to member of Chi You Men. Was he taking it somehere? To Tentei?
All in all I enjoyed really enjoyed the game I just wished the story wasn't as under developed as it was.
The story is annoying me to no end, and I do love the game a lot.
Ryo is constantly being bested by mindless roids. He fucking beat Dou Niu before. He feels weak in Guillin. I understand that he doesn't have to be OP, but give us some more goons instead of the same 3 fucks for the first half of the game. He fricking loses twice to the guy. Then he loses twice to a similar lazy designed roid again. This is cheap.
Another thing is, the elders in Bailu essentially don't know anything. They know Sunming was killed but not how and by whom. They just think Iwao wasn't the type of guy capable of killing an innocent.
Reveals in 3: Mirrors are treasure map, Lan Di is son of Sunming. We knew.
Almost nothing has been answered. Even Lan Di has no character development whatsoever. He says Ryo has been improved a bit. Yes, you saw him fighting on the rooftop and was kind of impressed by the waves he had made, remember?
My take; the mirrors harbor treasure but also something very bad. Shenhua is linked to it. Her US Shenmue packshot shows her in some sort of empress garb. She's a descendant of the mirror creators, or perhaps shes a descendant of the emperor. Niao Sun and Lan Di are both the Phoenix and the Dragon, and they are now at odds with eachother which is the most interesting twist in the game though there is hardly a foundation laid for it. The Chi you men have an internal war going on now which is interesting and might prove useful for Ryo. The mirrors won't come together anytime soon as one of the 2 leaders has to fall for it to happen.
I do think Shenhua has powers. She did use some shit on the muscle dude while having almost no experience with humans. That along with the prophecy make her a key. She has to be something far more than shown so far.
Ryo is constantly being bested by mindless roids. He fucking beat Dou Niu before. He feels weak in Guillin. I understand that he doesn't have to be OP, but give us some more goons instead of the same 3 fucks for the first half of the game. He fricking loses twice to the guy. Then he loses twice to a similar lazy designed roid again. This is cheap.
Another thing is, the elders in Bailu essentially don't know anything. They know Sunming was killed but not how and by whom. They just think Iwao wasn't the type of guy capable of killing an innocent.
Reveals in 3: Mirrors are treasure map, Lan Di is son of Sunming. We knew.
Almost nothing has been answered. Even Lan Di has no character development whatsoever. He says Ryo has been improved a bit. Yes, you saw him fighting on the rooftop and was kind of impressed by the waves he had made, remember?
My take; the mirrors harbor treasure but also something very bad. Shenhua is linked to it. Her US Shenmue packshot shows her in some sort of empress garb. She's a descendant of the mirror creators, or perhaps shes a descendant of the emperor. Niao Sun and Lan Di are both the Phoenix and the Dragon, and they are now at odds with eachother which is the most interesting twist in the game though there is hardly a foundation laid for it. The Chi you men have an internal war going on now which is interesting and might prove useful for Ryo. The mirrors won't come together anytime soon as one of the 2 leaders has to fall for it to happen.
I do think Shenhua has powers. She did use some shit on the muscle dude while having almost no experience with humans. That along with the prophecy make her a key. She has to be something far more than shown so far.
So I finally finished this game today on Saturday, and started the game on Monday where I graciously got the game a day early. I've spend 6 days playing an average of 8-10 hours a day living in this game. So before I start my long post I'll summarize this game in 3 parts.
Part 1: Bailu Village Score 10/10
Part 2: Niaowu 8/10
Part 3: Old Castle 6/10
Also my opinions on certain factors.
-You get to fight Lan Di and get your ass whooped...I love it.
-Combat is better than Shenmue I & II, all it was missing was a better explanation of it, and throw moves. If Shenmue IV is made I can see the combat being even better.
-Environments and atmosphere was really good, and honestly felt current gen to me
- Character models and animations definitely doesnt match the quality of the environments, but its passable.
- QTEs suck in this game, and I love QTEs. It definitely needs to be more forgiving and used more in cool moments.
-Voice acting for the most part is solid, especially if you compare it to the previous titles. Ryo still sounds too lifeless at times, but there are moments where you see a lot of personality.
-Most NPCs sound fine except a handful that are pretty terrible. Shenhua easily has the best performance in this game.
-Really enjoyed the soundtrack to the game.
-Old Castle was definitely rushed due to budget and/or time.
Part 1: Bailu Village Summary
Personally I adored this part of the game the most. I loved the small village vibes sort of reminiscent of Shenmue I. But unlike Shenmue I, I actually felt like I was living in this village. I woke up in the morning, greeted Shenhua, then chopped some wood for work, then bought food to eat, and roamed around the village playing mini games, and doing requests for people.
The best part of the day? Spending quality time with Shenhua at night, who has been built up since Shenmue I in Ryo's dreams, which by the way I love that he brings that up to Nozomi in Niaowu, but more on that later. Basically you were able to work, train, chill, and then come home to Shenhua to play a game and chat about each other's likes and dislikes, it was definitely needed after all the time the story built her up.
Loved the mystery behind why the bridge mattered, and definitely loved being trained by the old man where you had to bring him wine and buns for. Loved the entire training part, and loved how many drawers and nooks and crannies you can look through.
Part 2: Niaowu Summary
So as someone who prefers Shenmue II over the first, I was really looking forward to this part of the game the most, and for the most part it delivers. I loved having to pay rent, and becoming lost in a big city again. I actually appreciated the twist with Niao Sun, even if I saw it coming eventually. And while it was weird for me at first, I also liked how nonchalant Ren just showed up on his own. Also liked how you could play the Face Off game with Shenhua in town.
The most impressive to me is how like 85% of the shops in this city actually has items you can purchase, that to me is a huge deal for immersion, and as someone who loves Shenmue II a great deal, there's only a handful of shops you can actually buy stuff from in that game. Best part of this section is after Shenhua gets kidnapped, the night before you venture out to the Old Castle, if you go to your balcony at night before bed, you get a really cool presumably optional scene of Ryo gripping the railing and dramatically stating he will save Shenhua.
As far as the negatives...this is the part of the game where you can really see this game struggling with framerate and pop in. There were plenty of times I went to speak to someone, only having to wait for them to load in. The town even has small areas where you must walk, most likely to let the other parts of the area load in, because they aren't separating the areas in loading screens. I also wished the characters that joined you to raid the Old Castle would have been built up a bit more. I also wished for more Ren and Shenhua interaction. Also while I liked the forklift mini game, I wished that part would have felt more built up like in Shenmue I.
Part 3: Old Castle Summary
Finally my few positives of this part. Loved the Lan Di everything in this section, even if it was short. Loved that Niao Sun has the Phoenix Mirror, and is opposing Lan Di who has the Dragon Mirror. It seems Lan Di is the dragon in the prophecy, and Niao Sun is the Phoenix. I actually liked the comedy moments with the characters helping Ryo and Ren. And loved that you could take out the small fry enemies very quickly.
Negatives this whole section pales in comparison to Shenmue I and II's epic showdown scenes. But it seems this part was rushed due to budget/time. Really odd they stuck that side quest in there at the end. Also wished I got a bit more lore and story, but overall I'm happy I can kinda piece together some of the story now with the few bits of info I got.
My Theory
I believe that Lan Di's father was killed by someone or by a group of sinister leaders from within the Chi You Men. I think they killed him for both mirrors, since the treasures seem to be too valuable to not pursue.
They then manipulated Lan Di into thinking his father was betrayed and killed by his father's best friend who was Ryo's father.
I think Lan Di's father caught wind of this attack by some friendly informant who can hopefully tell us a great flashback side of the story in future games. Then Lan Di's father told Ryo's father to take the mirrors back with him to Japan before the Chi You Men could get to him. Lan Di's father probably thought the Chi You Men wouldn't be able to find the mirrors if they were hidden somewhere in Japan.
Now where I start getting more speculative here...if Lan Di learns of who really killed his father...will Lan Di actually side with Ryo in taking down the Chi You Men? Or will Lan Di never accept that truth, and continue to be the game's true antagonist?
Part 1: Bailu Village Score 10/10
Part 2: Niaowu 8/10
Part 3: Old Castle 6/10
Also my opinions on certain factors.
-You get to fight Lan Di and get your ass whooped...I love it.
-Combat is better than Shenmue I & II, all it was missing was a better explanation of it, and throw moves. If Shenmue IV is made I can see the combat being even better.
-Environments and atmosphere was really good, and honestly felt current gen to me
- Character models and animations definitely doesnt match the quality of the environments, but its passable.
- QTEs suck in this game, and I love QTEs. It definitely needs to be more forgiving and used more in cool moments.
-Voice acting for the most part is solid, especially if you compare it to the previous titles. Ryo still sounds too lifeless at times, but there are moments where you see a lot of personality.
-Most NPCs sound fine except a handful that are pretty terrible. Shenhua easily has the best performance in this game.
-Really enjoyed the soundtrack to the game.
-Old Castle was definitely rushed due to budget and/or time.
Part 1: Bailu Village Summary
Personally I adored this part of the game the most. I loved the small village vibes sort of reminiscent of Shenmue I. But unlike Shenmue I, I actually felt like I was living in this village. I woke up in the morning, greeted Shenhua, then chopped some wood for work, then bought food to eat, and roamed around the village playing mini games, and doing requests for people.
The best part of the day? Spending quality time with Shenhua at night, who has been built up since Shenmue I in Ryo's dreams, which by the way I love that he brings that up to Nozomi in Niaowu, but more on that later. Basically you were able to work, train, chill, and then come home to Shenhua to play a game and chat about each other's likes and dislikes, it was definitely needed after all the time the story built her up.
Loved the mystery behind why the bridge mattered, and definitely loved being trained by the old man where you had to bring him wine and buns for. Loved the entire training part, and loved how many drawers and nooks and crannies you can look through.
Part 2: Niaowu Summary
So as someone who prefers Shenmue II over the first, I was really looking forward to this part of the game the most, and for the most part it delivers. I loved having to pay rent, and becoming lost in a big city again. I actually appreciated the twist with Niao Sun, even if I saw it coming eventually. And while it was weird for me at first, I also liked how nonchalant Ren just showed up on his own. Also liked how you could play the Face Off game with Shenhua in town.
The most impressive to me is how like 85% of the shops in this city actually has items you can purchase, that to me is a huge deal for immersion, and as someone who loves Shenmue II a great deal, there's only a handful of shops you can actually buy stuff from in that game. Best part of this section is after Shenhua gets kidnapped, the night before you venture out to the Old Castle, if you go to your balcony at night before bed, you get a really cool presumably optional scene of Ryo gripping the railing and dramatically stating he will save Shenhua.
As far as the negatives...this is the part of the game where you can really see this game struggling with framerate and pop in. There were plenty of times I went to speak to someone, only having to wait for them to load in. The town even has small areas where you must walk, most likely to let the other parts of the area load in, because they aren't separating the areas in loading screens. I also wished the characters that joined you to raid the Old Castle would have been built up a bit more. I also wished for more Ren and Shenhua interaction. Also while I liked the forklift mini game, I wished that part would have felt more built up like in Shenmue I.
Part 3: Old Castle Summary
Finally my few positives of this part. Loved the Lan Di everything in this section, even if it was short. Loved that Niao Sun has the Phoenix Mirror, and is opposing Lan Di who has the Dragon Mirror. It seems Lan Di is the dragon in the prophecy, and Niao Sun is the Phoenix. I actually liked the comedy moments with the characters helping Ryo and Ren. And loved that you could take out the small fry enemies very quickly.
Negatives this whole section pales in comparison to Shenmue I and II's epic showdown scenes. But it seems this part was rushed due to budget/time. Really odd they stuck that side quest in there at the end. Also wished I got a bit more lore and story, but overall I'm happy I can kinda piece together some of the story now with the few bits of info I got.
My Theory
I believe that Lan Di's father was killed by someone or by a group of sinister leaders from within the Chi You Men. I think they killed him for both mirrors, since the treasures seem to be too valuable to not pursue.
They then manipulated Lan Di into thinking his father was betrayed and killed by his father's best friend who was Ryo's father.
I think Lan Di's father caught wind of this attack by some friendly informant who can hopefully tell us a great flashback side of the story in future games. Then Lan Di's father told Ryo's father to take the mirrors back with him to Japan before the Chi You Men could get to him. Lan Di's father probably thought the Chi You Men wouldn't be able to find the mirrors if they were hidden somewhere in Japan.
Now where I start getting more speculative here...if Lan Di learns of who really killed his father...will Lan Di actually side with Ryo in taking down the Chi You Men? Or will Lan Di never accept that truth, and continue to be the game's true antagonist?
Well, yeah I think Iwao is not the kind of person who would kill someone. Even the elder villagers think so.
But what bugs me are his last words, its as if he made a grave mistake and wants Ryo to not go down that road. One thing is certain, Iwao didn't do it for personal gain. He did hide the mirrors and apparently never searched for the contents. So he did continue Zhao's work. This could mean Iwao was framed. Or Zhao was corrupted and had to be put down.
The thing we learned is that Lan Di was taken in by the Chi You Men after his father died. He could either be fed lies, or he's just evil anyway. When Iwao realized who opposed him it seemed he wasn't too fond of him.
Always thought Lan Di would eventually side with Ryo though. He could easily kill Ryo twice now, but didn't. And now with Niao Sun clearly being the more evil of the 2, wanting to kill him after all, they do have a mutual enemy. Perhaps Lan Di will be cast out, or Niao gains leadership which means he's out either way.
But what bugs me are his last words, its as if he made a grave mistake and wants Ryo to not go down that road. One thing is certain, Iwao didn't do it for personal gain. He did hide the mirrors and apparently never searched for the contents. So he did continue Zhao's work. This could mean Iwao was framed. Or Zhao was corrupted and had to be put down.
The thing we learned is that Lan Di was taken in by the Chi You Men after his father died. He could either be fed lies, or he's just evil anyway. When Iwao realized who opposed him it seemed he wasn't too fond of him.
Always thought Lan Di would eventually side with Ryo though. He could easily kill Ryo twice now, but didn't. And now with Niao Sun clearly being the more evil of the 2, wanting to kill him after all, they do have a mutual enemy. Perhaps Lan Di will be cast out, or Niao gains leadership which means he's out either way.
Last edited:
If there is a Shenmue IV, I would assume we meet the rest of the Chi You Men leaders, since they should all be there to discover the treasure. I doubt it'll be that easy to find the treasure though. It may not even be there for all we know. I do wonder if Shenhua is some kind of key to unlocking it.
I really need Ryo to be taken in by some master, and tell him he is nowhere near ready. Ryo should take like a year or a few months to train his Kung Fu, it would be nice for Ryo to age a little. Maybe whoever is able to read that Chinese Mystery Scroll from Shenmue I, could be the same person that can take him in and train him.
My open question is what kind of towns or villages am I expecting to visit in Shenmue IV? I do wonder how gameplay wise they work that out, or maybe it'll be more on the linear side for awhile before it opens up?
If I was making it. Baisha Village would be the first half of game and stopping Sun and the Chi You, then second half I'll come up with a reason to return to Yokosuka. How touching would that be? Lan Di comes back to Hazuki Dojo like the alternate ending of the original.
I guess somehow Master Chen gets a Mirror through his trading company or something, to drive Ryo home. Seeing Ren meet Fuku San, making him uncomfortable lol... and Shenhua adapting to Japan, it could be fun.
Shenhua did mention I believe in my playthrough she would like to visit Japan one day. That would be cool, maybe there's a third secret mirror or key back in Japan?
Returning to Japan with Ren and Shenhua would be fantastic, but there definitely needs to be a good reason in doing so.
From the Kickstarter it was obvious that Baisha was supposed to be the focus of the game.
Suzuki talked about how much he was looking forward to the Character Perspective System, and how that would integrate with the Rapport System.
It seems to me that as the Kickstarter surpassed expectations and more sources of funding came in, Suzuki got overambitious with Bailu and Niaowu, and likely in an effort to please fans, stuffed them with minigames, shops, even the forklift. But the end result is a game that failed both in achieving its distinctive identity, and also in advancing the story in any original way.
From the way the stretch goals were structured on the Kickstarter, you would've thought development would have been primarily focused on Baisha, so it's shocking to see it excised completely. Bailu and Niaowu could have been smaller, with the latter cut completely, and nothing would have been lost on the plot. More time and money could have been focused on delivering something new both in terms and gameplay and story.
I think Suzuki had the best of intentions, but got far too ambitious and unlike with Shenmue in 1999, when the first chapter had grown and grown in size, he didn't have the resources of Sega at hand to bail him out.
In the pre-release of Shenmue I, so much of the media focused on the Hong Kong section that would ultimately end up in II. But at least we got it in the end. I fear that what was planned for Baisha has now been crammed into that underwhelming castle section for III.
This quote from Toshihiro Nagoshi regarding the development of the original game is telling as well:
Suzuki talked about how much he was looking forward to the Character Perspective System, and how that would integrate with the Rapport System.
It seems to me that as the Kickstarter surpassed expectations and more sources of funding came in, Suzuki got overambitious with Bailu and Niaowu, and likely in an effort to please fans, stuffed them with minigames, shops, even the forklift. But the end result is a game that failed both in achieving its distinctive identity, and also in advancing the story in any original way.
From the way the stretch goals were structured on the Kickstarter, you would've thought development would have been primarily focused on Baisha, so it's shocking to see it excised completely. Bailu and Niaowu could have been smaller, with the latter cut completely, and nothing would have been lost on the plot. More time and money could have been focused on delivering something new both in terms and gameplay and story.
I think Suzuki had the best of intentions, but got far too ambitious and unlike with Shenmue in 1999, when the first chapter had grown and grown in size, he didn't have the resources of Sega at hand to bail him out.
In the pre-release of Shenmue I, so much of the media focused on the Hong Kong section that would ultimately end up in II. But at least we got it in the end. I fear that what was planned for Baisha has now been crammed into that underwhelming castle section for III.
This quote from Toshihiro Nagoshi regarding the development of the original game is telling as well:
You can see that in Nagoshi's work today.
His games are very structured and you can tell he is applying what he learned on Shenmue to the Yakuza series. It's how they can churn out games at a steady clip.
His games are very structured and you can tell he is applying what he learned on Shenmue to the Yakuza series. It's how they can churn out games at a steady clip.
Just beat the game. I'm not extremely disappointed but I do wish more questions were answered. I know they story was hurting because of budget issues, I just hope they get a publisher next time and make a true storytelling shenmue, the assests are there but the budget wasn't. Also are there still 4 leaders of the chi Yu men or is that retconned like the magic sword and shenua powers?
Man last I checked no one has finished all the side quests yet on the PS4 Trophies list. It must be tough find out which ones you are actually missing.
I finished the game last night and overall had a great time with it. I'm super grateful to this team for working so hard over the past 4 years to get this to us. I have some positive thoughts and some complaints regarding the story that I need to get off my chest.
Positives:
- The sense of place in these environments was absolutely nailed. Just take a look at this gallery on Chinese cormorant fishing and tell me Shenmue 3 doesn't immediately come to mind: https://www.theguardian.com/world/g...-art-of-chinese-cormorant-fishing-in-pictures
- Most of the interactions with Shenhua in Bailu. I got a good sense of her character and appreciated that the game was rewarding me with her becoming friendlier to Ryo over the course of the story. I also liked that she was not meek in tough situations and went against Ryo's wishes to sideline her in order to ensure her safety.
- Enjoyed how the villagers became warmer to you as you spent more time there. Specifically, them all showing concern over you get beat up by the big guy. There was a sense of a world being affected by your actions dynamically.
- The training sessions with Sun were fun and I liked his character and design quite a bit.
- Cinematography in the action scenes was impressive, and one area where I definitively feel they were able to utilize modern tools to achieve a higher vision than in the original games. The spar with Grandmaster Bei atop the boat and old castle fight scenes were standouts for me.
- I was shaking during the confrontation with Lan Di. It was all too short, but the moment was truly grand. Lan Di has a presence in every scene he's in that's undeniable.
- They laid a good groundwork for Niao Sun. Her remodel from the original concept gives her a gravitas that might not have been there on Dreamcast hardware. I find her interesting and would hope she's a prominent villain all the way to the end of the story. This game now has 2 truly great main villains.
- Greg Chun did a pretty good job as Ren, which I find impressive since Eric Kelso's take on that character was one of the few standout performances of the original dub.
- I felt like all the training opportunities in the game made it feel like Ryo truly was putting in the work and improving as a martial artist. The more I get to train him, the more I can buy that one day he'll stand toe to toe with Lan Di as an equal.
- A lot of effort went into NPC characterization, as is standard for Shenmue, and I appreciated it continuing here. I worried NPC detail might have been on the chopping block due to budget, but there was nothing to worry about there.
Now onto my issues:
- Stripping out all mystical elements from Shenmue 3 was a mistake. They added a grand sense of mystery to the plot, and I think Shenhua needs to have her magical abilities explored beyond the vague connection to animals and whatever she did during the thug interrogation. I truly hope those elements come back in the future.
- When Shenhua left Bailu with Ryo, they transitioned out of there so quickly that it felt rushed. In Shenmue 1, Ryo has a major goodbye section at the end of the game that really sends home the idea that this is a huge and dangerous quest he's embarking on, and that he could lose everything from it. I feel that a moment equal to that should have been given to Shenhua in this game. She's leaving the village for the first time in her life and I wanted to see a set of important villagers show up in a scene to see her off. Instead, the old woman tells her to go with Ryo and that's it.
- We should have learned a lot more about Iwao from the people that met him in this game. Who he was back in those days and little stories about his time spent in Bailu.
- The key artwork characters in Niaowu (Grandmaster Bei, Shrine Maiden Shiling, Mr. Hsu) were all underdeveloped. Not in the sense I couldn't get an idea of their personality, but that none of them were allowed enough interaction time with Ryo to grow a meaningful bond with him (and me, by extension). Bei is Shenmue 3's Xiuying, yet all I know about him is that he's a fisherman with a sense of justice, and also the master of a once banned martial art. With Xiuying I have an excellent sense of who she is, her history and how it shaped her motivations in her interactions with Ryo. These 3 were meant to be the storytelling bedrock of the Niaowu chapter, yet we won't have any reason to give them much thought in the future. This is the worst offense of the storytelling in the game to me, as all the other complaints I've heard (clarity on the Chi You Men's 4 bosses and the organizations motivations, mystical elements, the true power of the mirrors, the meaning of the prophecy) could all be addressed in future games. These characters, however, are likely done in this story forever. It wouldn't have needed to be budget consuming cutscenes either. Simple conversations like the ones you have with Fangmei in 2 would have been fine.
- There were fewer random world or character building cutscenes that triggered while you were exploring than in previous games
- It is obvious to me where the stripped out systems and locations should be when playing through the game. I can see Ren and Shenhua walking around Niaowu and know the idea was to switch to their perspectives to advance the story. Additionally, the Old Castle is small and no substitute for the missing Baisha section.
- While I praise Lan Di's physical presence in the game, I'm not a huge fan of his new English voice actor. He simply doesn't bring the same ferocity to the character when speaking.
- I enjoyed the new fighting system, except at the very end. My Kung Fu level was maxed out, leading to every fight being over in less than 60 seconds. For these final epic battles, I want to be in action for multiple minutes at a time to really get the adrenaline pumping.
- The ending segment suffered the most from rushed storytelling. There's no way around making this observation based on how this large list of events can be run through in about 30 - 40 minutes:
I think Yu might be to blame for some of this, simply by virtue of being more ambitious than he can achieve with the paltry resources he's been given. I wish he'd spent more time pacing out the story of this game and making sure all the character development and story beats would get fully fleshed out before moving onto the open world gameplay elements. Ultimately though, I see this as the result of an injustice put upon this series, its fans, and its creator by an industry and media that is far more interested in cash and controversy than the artistic medium.
This isn't scientific, but I was doing projections on the Kickstarter back in June 2015, and before the barrage of negative press they were on track to raise 8 million dollars. Add in Slacker Backer funds and they'd likely have made 9 million. They would've had much better leverage with publisher negotiations with that much more money already raised. But the press stepped in to make sure the project funding was stunted, and YsNet had to settle for a Kickstarter promo team in Awesome Japan that had no experience, and no ability to handle these situations. Sony was wishy-washy about what the hell they were actually doing for this project (not much apparently), which just muddled the story up even further. Koji Igarashi scooped up Fangamer's promotional team for his Bloodstained Kickstarter just before Suzuki could hire them, 8-4 was also on the record of being pursued but having to decline, and ultimately the crowdfunding didn't reach is maximum potential. That's 2 million dollars that might have been used to afford Yoshimoto as the script writer and finish work on the Baisha section to prevent a rushed ending.
Outside of the fans that backed this game and Cedric Biscay, who is really the one that made this all possible, every other entity that signed onto help this project didn't put in the support the series truly deserves. Sony could have funded this thing for pocket change, instead they took the E3 credit for resurrecting the series and slowly backed away. Sega could have offered to bring Suzuki back into the fold after the successful funding of the game, but they remain at arms length. Deep Silver has not been a good publisher for this game, especially after hearing today they signed the Epic deal just to keep all funds from it to themselves as insurance on their investment. Deep Silver also hasn't really put in much work marketing the game. I've spoken to so many people that are aware of Shenmue but had no idea this was even coming out. My local Gamestop and Best Buy didn't get promotional signage from them until launch day. I think they lost faith in the project and silently hope to make back their money and run away from it forever. I saw how much effort they put into promoting another Kickstarter game - Kingdom Come: Deliverance and expected they'd do the same for Shenmue 3. I guess not.
I sense myself rambling so I'll wrap it up here, but I'm honestly just afraid this might be the end, again. Seeing the initial sales figures from smaller territories isn't instilling a ton of confidence. Major reviewers have been largely unfair to a game they don't really understand or appreciate for what it is. The all important Metacritic number is 8 - 10 points lower than I think is fair based on what has been accomplished with this budget, which will put a damper on sales. If this game doesn't chart on the November NPDs, then I think the future of this series is in jeopardy, and that's not where I want to be as a fan that just waited 18 years for the next installment. I hope I'm wrong and this story gets finished. I want to know how it plays out.
Positives:
- The sense of place in these environments was absolutely nailed. Just take a look at this gallery on Chinese cormorant fishing and tell me Shenmue 3 doesn't immediately come to mind: https://www.theguardian.com/world/g...-art-of-chinese-cormorant-fishing-in-pictures
- Most of the interactions with Shenhua in Bailu. I got a good sense of her character and appreciated that the game was rewarding me with her becoming friendlier to Ryo over the course of the story. I also liked that she was not meek in tough situations and went against Ryo's wishes to sideline her in order to ensure her safety.
- Enjoyed how the villagers became warmer to you as you spent more time there. Specifically, them all showing concern over you get beat up by the big guy. There was a sense of a world being affected by your actions dynamically.
- The training sessions with Sun were fun and I liked his character and design quite a bit.
- Cinematography in the action scenes was impressive, and one area where I definitively feel they were able to utilize modern tools to achieve a higher vision than in the original games. The spar with Grandmaster Bei atop the boat and old castle fight scenes were standouts for me.
- I was shaking during the confrontation with Lan Di. It was all too short, but the moment was truly grand. Lan Di has a presence in every scene he's in that's undeniable.
- They laid a good groundwork for Niao Sun. Her remodel from the original concept gives her a gravitas that might not have been there on Dreamcast hardware. I find her interesting and would hope she's a prominent villain all the way to the end of the story. This game now has 2 truly great main villains.
- Greg Chun did a pretty good job as Ren, which I find impressive since Eric Kelso's take on that character was one of the few standout performances of the original dub.
- I felt like all the training opportunities in the game made it feel like Ryo truly was putting in the work and improving as a martial artist. The more I get to train him, the more I can buy that one day he'll stand toe to toe with Lan Di as an equal.
- A lot of effort went into NPC characterization, as is standard for Shenmue, and I appreciated it continuing here. I worried NPC detail might have been on the chopping block due to budget, but there was nothing to worry about there.
Now onto my issues:
- Stripping out all mystical elements from Shenmue 3 was a mistake. They added a grand sense of mystery to the plot, and I think Shenhua needs to have her magical abilities explored beyond the vague connection to animals and whatever she did during the thug interrogation. I truly hope those elements come back in the future.
- When Shenhua left Bailu with Ryo, they transitioned out of there so quickly that it felt rushed. In Shenmue 1, Ryo has a major goodbye section at the end of the game that really sends home the idea that this is a huge and dangerous quest he's embarking on, and that he could lose everything from it. I feel that a moment equal to that should have been given to Shenhua in this game. She's leaving the village for the first time in her life and I wanted to see a set of important villagers show up in a scene to see her off. Instead, the old woman tells her to go with Ryo and that's it.
- We should have learned a lot more about Iwao from the people that met him in this game. Who he was back in those days and little stories about his time spent in Bailu.
- The key artwork characters in Niaowu (Grandmaster Bei, Shrine Maiden Shiling, Mr. Hsu) were all underdeveloped. Not in the sense I couldn't get an idea of their personality, but that none of them were allowed enough interaction time with Ryo to grow a meaningful bond with him (and me, by extension). Bei is Shenmue 3's Xiuying, yet all I know about him is that he's a fisherman with a sense of justice, and also the master of a once banned martial art. With Xiuying I have an excellent sense of who she is, her history and how it shaped her motivations in her interactions with Ryo. These 3 were meant to be the storytelling bedrock of the Niaowu chapter, yet we won't have any reason to give them much thought in the future. This is the worst offense of the storytelling in the game to me, as all the other complaints I've heard (clarity on the Chi You Men's 4 bosses and the organizations motivations, mystical elements, the true power of the mirrors, the meaning of the prophecy) could all be addressed in future games. These characters, however, are likely done in this story forever. It wouldn't have needed to be budget consuming cutscenes either. Simple conversations like the ones you have with Fangmei in 2 would have been fine.
- There were fewer random world or character building cutscenes that triggered while you were exploring than in previous games
- It is obvious to me where the stripped out systems and locations should be when playing through the game. I can see Ren and Shenhua walking around Niaowu and know the idea was to switch to their perspectives to advance the story. Additionally, the Old Castle is small and no substitute for the missing Baisha section.
- While I praise Lan Di's physical presence in the game, I'm not a huge fan of his new English voice actor. He simply doesn't bring the same ferocity to the character when speaking.
- I enjoyed the new fighting system, except at the very end. My Kung Fu level was maxed out, leading to every fight being over in less than 60 seconds. For these final epic battles, I want to be in action for multiple minutes at a time to really get the adrenaline pumping.
- The ending segment suffered the most from rushed storytelling. There's no way around making this observation based on how this large list of events can be run through in about 30 - 40 minutes:
- Row up to the entrance hall to the Old Castle and devise an infiltration plan
- Speak to a Pawn Shop vendor (to access the economy for needed items one last time)
- Find his missing times
- Look in holding cell and find Shenhua's father
- Ambush QTE from Chai, quickly defeat him
- Walk in on Niao Sun waiting for you and give her the mirror in exchange for Shenhua (who doesn't get to do anything except run to safety)
- Head for Lan Di after she reveals he's here
- Dispatch a series of weaklings until you reach Ge
- Fight and defeat Ge with your new Bajiquan technique
- Fight a set of tougher Chi You Men warriors
- Bust into the top room where Lan Di is relaxing
- Defeat his 3 strongest henchmen in a QTE cutscene that shows Ryo's new ability as a martial artist
- Niao Sun orders her men to burn down the Old Castle in an attempt to murder Lan Di while he's distracted with Ryo and move into his role in Chi You Men
- Fight Lan Di and fail to land a single blow
- Ren bails you out offering the (fake) Phoenix Mirror to Lan Di in exchange for sparing Ryo
- Leave on a boat for a location along the Great Wall of China
- Speak to Shenhua's father to learn what he knows of Iwao, Zhao Sunming, and the mirrors
- Traveling along the Great Wall to your next destination
I think Yu might be to blame for some of this, simply by virtue of being more ambitious than he can achieve with the paltry resources he's been given. I wish he'd spent more time pacing out the story of this game and making sure all the character development and story beats would get fully fleshed out before moving onto the open world gameplay elements. Ultimately though, I see this as the result of an injustice put upon this series, its fans, and its creator by an industry and media that is far more interested in cash and controversy than the artistic medium.
This isn't scientific, but I was doing projections on the Kickstarter back in June 2015, and before the barrage of negative press they were on track to raise 8 million dollars. Add in Slacker Backer funds and they'd likely have made 9 million. They would've had much better leverage with publisher negotiations with that much more money already raised. But the press stepped in to make sure the project funding was stunted, and YsNet had to settle for a Kickstarter promo team in Awesome Japan that had no experience, and no ability to handle these situations. Sony was wishy-washy about what the hell they were actually doing for this project (not much apparently), which just muddled the story up even further. Koji Igarashi scooped up Fangamer's promotional team for his Bloodstained Kickstarter just before Suzuki could hire them, 8-4 was also on the record of being pursued but having to decline, and ultimately the crowdfunding didn't reach is maximum potential. That's 2 million dollars that might have been used to afford Yoshimoto as the script writer and finish work on the Baisha section to prevent a rushed ending.
Outside of the fans that backed this game and Cedric Biscay, who is really the one that made this all possible, every other entity that signed onto help this project didn't put in the support the series truly deserves. Sony could have funded this thing for pocket change, instead they took the E3 credit for resurrecting the series and slowly backed away. Sega could have offered to bring Suzuki back into the fold after the successful funding of the game, but they remain at arms length. Deep Silver has not been a good publisher for this game, especially after hearing today they signed the Epic deal just to keep all funds from it to themselves as insurance on their investment. Deep Silver also hasn't really put in much work marketing the game. I've spoken to so many people that are aware of Shenmue but had no idea this was even coming out. My local Gamestop and Best Buy didn't get promotional signage from them until launch day. I think they lost faith in the project and silently hope to make back their money and run away from it forever. I saw how much effort they put into promoting another Kickstarter game - Kingdom Come: Deliverance and expected they'd do the same for Shenmue 3. I guess not.
I sense myself rambling so I'll wrap it up here, but I'm honestly just afraid this might be the end, again. Seeing the initial sales figures from smaller territories isn't instilling a ton of confidence. Major reviewers have been largely unfair to a game they don't really understand or appreciate for what it is. The all important Metacritic number is 8 - 10 points lower than I think is fair based on what has been accomplished with this budget, which will put a damper on sales. If this game doesn't chart on the November NPDs, then I think the future of this series is in jeopardy, and that's not where I want to be as a fan that just waited 18 years for the next installment. I hope I'm wrong and this story gets finished. I want to know how it plays out.
I pretty much agreed with nearly everything you said. I loved the confrontation with Lan Di, and wished that whole ending section didnt feel as rushed as it was. What I really look forward to is that in Shenmue IV I have no idea how the story unfolds next, and I love it. Shenmue III had the Bailu Village already known beforehand, you knew you would finally get to know more about Shenhua, etc.
Also the sales for Shenmue III is a wait and see for me. Even if it doesnt chart, that wouldnt necessarily mean it failed. I agree that Sony or Sega should have just thrown fans a bone just out of a small good will, but at the end of the day I put more blame on Sega than Sony, because Shenmue is Sega's franchise....
Finished it just now. Definitely agree that the ending segment you could feel they were running out of money, but I still thoroughly enjoyed the adventure and really hope that it can continue. I'm especially interested in how things will play out now that it's clear that the Chi You Men will be split into two distinct factions, with Lan Di and Niao Sun being rivals as Ryo and co. try to shove their way in.
Shenmue's future seems to constantly be in question, but I think 3 showed that they know exactly what the fans want and how to do it. I can only pray they can manage to get the budget together for the next one, and that their experience with 3 pays off by letting them know their limits and how to pursue development in 4.
Shenmue's future seems to constantly be in question, but I think 3 showed that they know exactly what the fans want and how to do it. I can only pray they can manage to get the budget together for the next one, and that their experience with 3 pays off by letting them know their limits and how to pursue development in 4.
Done with the game and, boy, I need to take some things out of my chest. I will just focus on my issues but let me say I'm overall positively satisfied with the game. Yu Suzuki had to choose between doing a generic modern game (due to budget constraints) pleasing neither fans or general audience or deliver a true Shenmue experience, possibly alienating non-fans. On doing the second choice, he really nailed it! Bailu is gorgeous, almost magical, and Niaowu impressed me with tons of shops where I could in fact interact, the scenery, the temples... there was so much to see that I felt overwhelmed for a bit. I really didn't think that he could do that much on a Kickstarter game and I'm glad and thankful for it.
While we could feel the rush to end the game during Old Castle (running out of money most probably), there was a good build-up from the moment Niao Sun is presented to when the door was smashed and there was him, Lan Di casually sitting (I screamed at the moment, I confess haha). The fact that Ryo couldn't land a single blow on him was very faithful to his journey so far. He learned a lot but there was no way he could possibly have any chance against Lan Di. And the split of the Chi You Men in two factions is something that will be very interesting to see.
With that out of the way:
- The combat system was a big let down for me. The delay required to recognize the button combinations turned the whole thing feel unresponsive. And the lack of free movement and a proper evade button (I'm aware of double tap on analogue stick but it's far from being as effective) made every battle stiff and awkward. We have to be honest here, even in 1&2 the battles were far from the fluidity seen in Virtua Fighter and some of the moves were difficult to pull it off. But still, mobility was higher and there were parries and throw moves. I really hope this system is scrapped entirely, or at least, shaped into a middle ground with the previous one if we ever get a fourth game.
- Aside from minigames, I didn't enjoy a single QTE. Not only they were VERY unforgiving, demanding instant reactions (which just required memorizing the sequences on the second run) but also they lacked refinement. In 1&2 success or failure was dependant on getting most of the button prompts right, not all of them. Few ones even allowed failure, leading to an alternative situation. 3 had none of that. There were additions to the QTE formula from 1 to 2 and I was expecting some tweaks for 3 but unfortunately the implementation was poorer than 1. Would it hurt the "Shenmue formula" if they were reduced just to the minigames from here on?
- Here we have the worst offender: story. I was always convinced that Yu Suzuki had a firm grip on the whole script but now I have my doubts. Few cracks and a major inconsistency have appeared and Chai's return (without any reason other than fan service) just made it worse. Allow me to explain my points:
- Progression of the second arch. Doing the training with Mr. Sun the way it was just felt right. More, it helped to develop the character. Later on, it was a big letdown when we virtually repeated the same thing with Grandmaster Feng to learn a very similar move. I wonder if there were a clever way to pull it off, with more involvement of Shilin and Mr. Hsu.
- I'm just on the realm of nitpicking now but it was weird on phone calls Ryo referring to Nozomi by her second name (Harazaki) and she to him the same, out of nowhere. Maybe that indicates they are not so close anymore but that was nothing before that might have indicated it. It's unfair to criticize her voice actress and others just for the sake of not being the same of the originals and I think they did the best they could. The exception here is Guizhang: he was way waaaaaay off. His tone and how the conversation proceeded was nothing like he was supposed to be.
Again, I liked the game and I really hope Yu Suzuki finds a way to make 4. But plot holes like I mentioned should never have happened, especially when they are questions that probably have risen during development and have zero relation to budget restrictions.
Please feel free to tell me if I missed the point on something.
While we could feel the rush to end the game during Old Castle (running out of money most probably), there was a good build-up from the moment Niao Sun is presented to when the door was smashed and there was him, Lan Di casually sitting (I screamed at the moment, I confess haha). The fact that Ryo couldn't land a single blow on him was very faithful to his journey so far. He learned a lot but there was no way he could possibly have any chance against Lan Di. And the split of the Chi You Men in two factions is something that will be very interesting to see.
With that out of the way:
- The combat system was a big let down for me. The delay required to recognize the button combinations turned the whole thing feel unresponsive. And the lack of free movement and a proper evade button (I'm aware of double tap on analogue stick but it's far from being as effective) made every battle stiff and awkward. We have to be honest here, even in 1&2 the battles were far from the fluidity seen in Virtua Fighter and some of the moves were difficult to pull it off. But still, mobility was higher and there were parries and throw moves. I really hope this system is scrapped entirely, or at least, shaped into a middle ground with the previous one if we ever get a fourth game.
- Aside from minigames, I didn't enjoy a single QTE. Not only they were VERY unforgiving, demanding instant reactions (which just required memorizing the sequences on the second run) but also they lacked refinement. In 1&2 success or failure was dependant on getting most of the button prompts right, not all of them. Few ones even allowed failure, leading to an alternative situation. 3 had none of that. There were additions to the QTE formula from 1 to 2 and I was expecting some tweaks for 3 but unfortunately the implementation was poorer than 1. Would it hurt the "Shenmue formula" if they were reduced just to the minigames from here on?
- Here we have the worst offender: story. I was always convinced that Yu Suzuki had a firm grip on the whole script but now I have my doubts. Few cracks and a major inconsistency have appeared and Chai's return (without any reason other than fan service) just made it worse. Allow me to explain my points:
- Why the thugs were sent to Bailu? Yes, to get the Phoenix Mirror but here's the catch: there is no way that nobody from the Chi You Men didn't know that Ryo already had it. From the first game, Chai knew about it and had even snatched it for a few seconds. Damn this was even in recap video! If he was dead after falling in the sea (from the manga unlocked in 2) this wouldn't be an issue. However, he was there in Bailu, leading the thugs and the whole situation doesn't make any sense, no matter which angle I see it. Unless the organization has an army of Chai clones...
- What is the reason Mr. Yuan and Mr. Xu were kidnapped for? I waited until the very ending for some sort of explanation about that and got none. It's very upsetting, to say the least. I thought about many possibilities and each one raises an inconsistency. Worse, this might never be explained in the future. And again, this relates to the main issue: nobody knew that Ryo had the Phoenix Mirror and that's a hard pill to swallow. No small problem given that this fact kinda invalidates the whole purpose of 3.
- Shenhua's real parents are never mentioned. I even saw the final cutscenes of 2 again to check if my memory is not playing tricks on me and nope, it's all there: Mr. Yuan is Shenhua's stepfather. If so, what is the relation between the Yuan family and her real parents? Ok, this is not an inconsistency per se but, oddly, it's not mentioned a single time. Was it retconned?
- Progression of the second arch. Doing the training with Mr. Sun the way it was just felt right. More, it helped to develop the character. Later on, it was a big letdown when we virtually repeated the same thing with Grandmaster Feng to learn a very similar move. I wonder if there were a clever way to pull it off, with more involvement of Shilin and Mr. Hsu.
- I'm just on the realm of nitpicking now but it was weird on phone calls Ryo referring to Nozomi by her second name (Harazaki) and she to him the same, out of nowhere. Maybe that indicates they are not so close anymore but that was nothing before that might have indicated it. It's unfair to criticize her voice actress and others just for the sake of not being the same of the originals and I think they did the best they could. The exception here is Guizhang: he was way waaaaaay off. His tone and how the conversation proceeded was nothing like he was supposed to be.
Again, I liked the game and I really hope Yu Suzuki finds a way to make 4. But plot holes like I mentioned should never have happened, especially when they are questions that probably have risen during development and have zero relation to budget restrictions.
Please feel free to tell me if I missed the point on something.
I forgot to mention this, it was painful to see. A single "YOU?" would have done the trick.
Chai turning up made no sense considering what happened to him in Shenmue chapter 2 (comic). Doesn't he get knocked off into the South China Sea during the boat trip to Hong Kong?
So to your first point on if the Chi You Men didnt know if Ryo had the Phoenix Mirror. It seems Lan Di definitely didnt know based on the events in Shenmue II...Lan Di probably would have just leapt down at that building and take it from Ryo right then and there. It seems based on the ending to Shenmue III, Chai may be working for Niao Sun now, and maybe Chai never told Lan Di about it, and instead told her.
I think this is backed up by Niao Sun tricking Shenhua into being captured, so she can have the Phoenix Mirror for herself, and as a bonus using Ryo's rage against Lan Di to her own benefit.
Another possibility is Lan Di being so high in the ranking of the Chi You Men, that maybe Chai cant get an audience with him. In fact if I remember correctly I think Chai wanted to obtain the Phoenix Mirror so he can be apart of the Chi You Men in the first place.
Second point they needed the stonemasons most likely to A. Possibly find the Phoenix Mirror, and B. Their knowledge of how the mirrors were created, which could be helpful for finding the treasure in the mountains. I would imagine it's still going to be tricky to find the treasure even with both mirrors.
Third point Shenhua's parents were brought up slightly during the conversations you can have with her in the village. She states that her stepfather told her that she wasnt ready to know about her mother "yet". So it seems if we get a Shenmue IV this will most likely be explained in that game(hopefully).
I agree that it was odd that Ryo never said anything about Chai suddenly turning up. Made no sense that he couldn't have said anything about his return. Ren also being there didn't really make any sense too, but I get that Yu Suzuki probably wanted some returning characters for nostalgia.
So...he does in the comic strip that you can unlock in Shenmue II, but...I'm not sure if it's canon, or if Chai does survive from the fall from the boat to the ocean.
I believe Ren was always suppose to end up with Ryo. He's a treasure hunter so it makes a lot of sense. The fact that he will be with Ryo in S4 confirms it. Now Chai is up in the air but seems like fan service but I do believe he's the guy who told Niao Sun about the pheonix mirror.
I mean Ren was always suppose to be in Shenmue III based on the ending of Shenmue II. He has made his intentions on finding the treasure pretty clear. He showed up nonchalantly, because...that's how Ren is.
You see Ren at the end of Shenmue 2 intrigued when Yuandha Zhu mentions the treasure. Niaowu seems to be the biggest port in the area so I get it makes sense he'll bump into you out of all the places, especially at the gambling area.
Ren showing up casually makes perfect sense. Its one of the things I don't have issues with. Don't forget Shenmue 3 takes place only a week or so after 2, I don't know what the canon is but I guess you can be in Niaowu after a week. They have seen eachother in HK quite recently and Ren was clearly interested in the treasure hunt so him being at that port town makes sense.
Chai I do have issues with. Ryo beat him at the end of Shenmue 1, and then a bit later on the boat to HK in S2. And in Bailu he's still asking who Chai is working for. Yes, the comic strip is Canon. The boat chapter was cut but its Chapter 2 of Shenmue. Hong Kong, first part of Shenmue 2 is Chapter 3.
The same issues I have with the reveals. Almost no reveal done in S3 is something S2 players don't know. A huge disappointment.
Chai I do have issues with. Ryo beat him at the end of Shenmue 1, and then a bit later on the boat to HK in S2. And in Bailu he's still asking who Chai is working for. Yes, the comic strip is Canon. The boat chapter was cut but its Chapter 2 of Shenmue. Hong Kong, first part of Shenmue 2 is Chapter 3.
The same issues I have with the reveals. Almost no reveal done in S3 is something S2 players don't know. A huge disappointment.