I'll give you a hint: the game's almost finished and they have to produce physical goods. Pretty sure those desperate for a refund can find 5 minutes within a two week period.
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Shenmue III Refund details
- Thread starter bell wood's jet cola
- Start date
It took them 3 month to get that survey ready, but somehow we should be the ones understanding of the lack of remaining time they have before release and how that can impact the refund period.
I will never understand this reasoning. If a game meant that much to me I'd play it on Epic to support the game then buy it again on Steam when it came out there.
OP
OP
I think once the game comes out and they've proven it's a worthy successor, people will come back. Otherwise...
It's on Ys Net to prove they're worthy of our business.
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That the release date is approaching is not the problem of those wanting refunds. If the refund situation had actually been handled promptly by YS Net rather than dragged out for nearly three months, the release date need not have been a consideration.
As for the two weeks being enough: people have lives. People go on holiday, or get married, or are sick, or a thousand other reasons why they might not be able to respond immediately. YS Net have taken their sweet time updating the survey, have repeatedly asked backers to be patient, are expecting people to wait up to three months for them to process a refund, yet they're only willing to honour near immediate refund requests. The refunds window should have been open at least a month ago, and this whole thing stinks of them trying to limit the number of refunds that they have to honour.
Yeah. It's one thing to ask for a refund when the game is three months away. But when it's just a couple weeks away it's more tempting to keep it.
I'm a PC backer, and unless I somehow miss those 2 weeks I'll be asking for a refund, they can take their 2 weeks-3 months whatever.
Promised myself I wouldn't reply, but look where we are now.
Shenmue III already had a publishing arrangement with Sony and Shibuya Productions before the deal with Deep Silver was signed, but the issue was capital. Sony were never providing development funds (their deal was to lift other financial burdens from Ys Net to allow using the crowdfunding money more for development, as per the funding statement from 2015), and Shibuya Productions had already contributed and were likely unable to go much further as a small French production company.
At some point after finishing the prototype in late 2016/early 2017, Yu Suzuki was starting to see the constraints the crowdfunded budget was having on delivering the game he wanted to make for the fans. One thing led to another, and Deep Silver took over the publishing reigns because they were going to inject fresh capital into the project. As detailed in Update #104, the game now accounts for approximately $3+ million in additional stretch goals that were not hit during the crowdfunding period; which all backers will obviously benefit from. Their investment is what made that happen.
But concessions are made when signing with a publisher, including handing over independence on certain matters; like distribution. Ys Net did what they had to in order to deliver a better product on release, but clearly it has come at a cost. Signing with Deep Silver was not making a deal with the devil even despite relinquishing control in some areas, but nobody could have predicted almost two years after signing that an aggressive new player in the PC storefront market would come knocking with a guaranteed advance on sales (or whatever Epic's cash really is) in return for 12 month exclusivity.
If Deep Silver were compelled by this in the same way they were with other games they're publishing, what are the options for Ys Net to resist? I held out some hope before the EGS deal was made public that Ys Net would have the leverage to resist if they were inclined, but that's pretty naive when they're $3+ million in the hole to a publisher for a game set to release in a matter of months. Short of breaking or buying out contracts, if the publisher says jump, the developer says "how high?"
And that's what it comes down to really, naivety on Ys Net's part too. Despite the established IP and many experienced old hands at the studio, they're still a new developer, working with a Western publisher for the first time, and releasing on the PC platform for the first time. They didn't anticipate the backlash being nearly as bad as it would be (and I don't blame them, this... culture war bubbling up over EGS is hard to keep track of if you're not looking in the right places), and were snookered on providing Steam keys day one by either contracts signed with Epic or Valve's keygen policies for Steam. They're not blameless and this all could have been handled far better even without the benefit of hindsight, but malicious dreaming about plots and conspiracies... it doesn't stack up. The evidence doesn't support it; factual or anecdotal.
There are people who have met with and worked with Yu Suzuki on this project that will tell you fans are at the forefront of his mind; always. He's a 60+ year old man who has been living out of his office for years to make Shenmue III the best it can realistically be for the fans. Don't mistake me as trying to perform a whitewash, but some posters are happy to indulge in borderline character assassination if it fits their agenda. They need a dose of reality, and to know that even if you're the face of the project, or even the studio head... you're not always fully in control when a publisher is involved, and millions of dollars are being thrown around.
It's right that refunds are being offered. It's right that Steam keys for 2020 are being offered. What's not right are facts and an established timeline of events being ignored, because it isn't convenient for keeping the rage train going for some.
Hope that's a satisfactory answer, because I don't really have much more to say on it.
Sometimes it goes your way, sometimes it doesn't.
You may want to rethink your post given the contents above. This process isn't nearly as easy as you think it is.
Two weeks is adequate, especially with the advance notice that new surveys are coming.
While I respect your position and that you've framed it to me a lot nicer than most others would, I think it's inherently flawed to consider a crowdfunding game signing with a publisher as somehow unfair. Having a publisher opens up more possibilities in marketing, distribution, and yes - raw capital for a project. While some developers opt to go alone, many don't, and for good reason.
Shenmue III already had a publishing arrangement with Sony and Shibuya Productions before the deal with Deep Silver was signed, but the issue was capital. Sony were never providing development funds (their deal was to lift other financial burdens from Ys Net to allow using the crowdfunding money more for development, as per the funding statement from 2015), and Shibuya Productions had already contributed and were likely unable to go much further as a small French production company.
At some point after finishing the prototype in late 2016/early 2017, Yu Suzuki was starting to see the constraints the crowdfunded budget was having on delivering the game he wanted to make for the fans. One thing led to another, and Deep Silver took over the publishing reigns because they were going to inject fresh capital into the project. As detailed in Update #104, the game now accounts for approximately $3+ million in additional stretch goals that were not hit during the crowdfunding period; which all backers will obviously benefit from. Their investment is what made that happen.
But concessions are made when signing with a publisher, including handing over independence on certain matters; like distribution. Ys Net did what they had to in order to deliver a better product on release, but clearly it has come at a cost. Signing with Deep Silver was not making a deal with the devil even despite relinquishing control in some areas, but nobody could have predicted almost two years after signing that an aggressive new player in the PC storefront market would come knocking with a guaranteed advance on sales (or whatever Epic's cash really is) in return for 12 month exclusivity.
If Deep Silver were compelled by this in the same way they were with other games they're publishing, what are the options for Ys Net to resist? I held out some hope before the EGS deal was made public that Ys Net would have the leverage to resist if they were inclined, but that's pretty naive when they're $3+ million in the hole to a publisher for a game set to release in a matter of months. Short of breaking or buying out contracts, if the publisher says jump, the developer says "how high?"
And that's what it comes down to really, naivety on Ys Net's part too. Despite the established IP and many experienced old hands at the studio, they're still a new developer, working with a Western publisher for the first time, and releasing on the PC platform for the first time. They didn't anticipate the backlash being nearly as bad as it would be (and I don't blame them, this... culture war bubbling up over EGS is hard to keep track of if you're not looking in the right places), and were snookered on providing Steam keys day one by either contracts signed with Epic or Valve's keygen policies for Steam. They're not blameless and this all could have been handled far better even without the benefit of hindsight, but malicious dreaming about plots and conspiracies... it doesn't stack up. The evidence doesn't support it; factual or anecdotal.
There are people who have met with and worked with Yu Suzuki on this project that will tell you fans are at the forefront of his mind; always. He's a 60+ year old man who has been living out of his office for years to make Shenmue III the best it can realistically be for the fans. Don't mistake me as trying to perform a whitewash, but some posters are happy to indulge in borderline character assassination if it fits their agenda. They need a dose of reality, and to know that even if you're the face of the project, or even the studio head... you're not always fully in control when a publisher is involved, and millions of dollars are being thrown around.
It's right that refunds are being offered. It's right that Steam keys for 2020 are being offered. What's not right are facts and an established timeline of events being ignored, because it isn't convenient for keeping the rage train going for some.
Hope that's a satisfactory answer, because I don't really have much more to say on it.
Sorry you were inconvenienced, but y'know. You take your own risks when assuming, hoping, or taking things for granted.
Sometimes it goes your way, sometimes it doesn't.
I'm going to direct you to these posts from earlier in the thread:
You may want to rethink your post given the contents above. This process isn't nearly as easy as you think it is.
Two weeks is adequate, especially with the advance notice that new surveys are coming.
I see sarcasm isn't your forte.
Thanks for putting time and efforts into your posts, Spaghetti. If half the people on here did the same it'd be a much calmer, more respectful place.
Wonderful posts and I concur. Hoping those that want refunds get this promptly resolved because I know for many of us, the prospect of finally getting our hands on Shenmue 3 after all these years is truly going to be a special moment. After latest trailer I think things are shaping up very nicely.
I mean, I get it, but this is still kinda lame.
People getting refunds should not still get in-game rewards. Hopefully they patch them out eventually.
:O
Do they ship to Australia?
Science discovers evidence of parallel realities
Well, you see, the Kickstarter never promised that this would be the reality in which you received your reward. Learn to read.
Well, you see, the Kickstarter never promised that this would be the reality in which you received your reward. Learn to read.
This whole KS is Ys Net preying on Kickstarter backers. They needed 21 days before they bothered to suggest refund to PC backers. They would have taken a total of 101 days (assuming Ys Net mid September starts at September 20) since E3 (June 11) to start collecting refund details but they will only entertain refund request for 2 weeks (since it's fangamers, total will be 10 working days max).
To add on this, the set two weeks period, ending start of October is very likely so that they simply can calculate how much previous earnings they need to write off as new expenses for their quarterly financials. Them having an open door policy for refunds on a product (KS contribution) they have already paid tax on by now is not realistic (among other obligatory steps you abide to as a corporate entity, I'm grossly simplifying things here). Not to mention any refunds tied to in-game rewards that could impact actual development of the game this close to launch, potentially extensively depending on reward type (crunch!).
And it maybe needs to be said, just because another corporate entity offered refunds quicker for their product means nothing. No two corporations are structured the same.
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Was there any part of the process where we specified our platform of choice other than the Fangamer survey? It's been so long that I can't remember if that was even part of the original pledge process.
If they're relying on survey responses to determine this, and if those responses can still be changed without having a record of what the original choice was, then that seems ripe for abuse.
I think waiting 3 months for a refund is bad no matter the game.
Don't expect anyone abusing refund request because Ys Net appointed fangamers that don't respond to emails. Good luck to PC gamers if fangamers screwed up the refund information request and Ys Net ordered fangamers not to reply emails again.
Considering they have no legal obligation to offer refunds in the first place, and are doing it purely to quell the flames of the EGS situation, I highly doubt it.
There are obvious logistical reasons as to why they're giving a set period of time, and if people really want their refund, I'm sure they'll make the time to get one.
Yup.
Let's offer a refund but we will be vague when the refund request starts. Better don't give time for PC backers time to inform other PC backers
Let's give a third party the punishment to handle the refund instead of handling it themselves and said third party don't have power to decide anything in order to draw out the refund process
Let's not share any info on the refund process so that any concerns can be ignored because the refund period ended and the third party can make empty promises they don't have to fulfill
Two weeks is more than enough time. It will take you literally two minutes to put in the refund request.
Those saying they may miss the opportunity can't blame Ysnet, Epic or Deep silver. At some point you have to take responsibility for your own money.
The time spent complaining should be spent putting in your refund request when it becomes available.
Those saying they may miss the opportunity can't blame Ysnet, Epic or Deep silver. At some point you have to take responsibility for your own money.
The time spent complaining should be spent putting in your refund request when it becomes available.
2 weeks is a lot of time. Anyone who wants a refund should be paying attention anyway
From the update: surveys will go out mid-September, and they will send another "survey open" update when this begins. An email all PC backers will receive.
This is how large-scale crowdfunding campaigns work: game developers hire specialist companies to handle this stuff because they have experience in payments, reward fulfillment, shipping etc. There's nothing malicious in Ys Net using Fangamer.
Again, from the update: "Processing details will be announced at the start of the survey period." They'll explain it when the surveys go out, which is the best time to explain it. Don't worry, it'll be easy to get your refund.
"They're not doing the refunds how I want them to do the refunds" is probably the weakest attempt at controversy yet. Just do it, get your money and move on.
Spot on. Part of me thinks some people don't even want the refund because then they won't be able to complain in these threads. Either that or they'll purposely miss the refunds in order to create additional drama. I really hope I'm wrong in thinking this, but those thoughts did cross my mind.
Regardless of whether it makes sense and is justified to make the refund delivery window "up to three months", it should be understandable if people aren't happy about potentially having to wait that long, especially considering we've basically already been waiting for three months.
But it should also be understood that they're not purposely trying to screw people over.
Like, what the fuck, this is literally about them refunding us and resolving the situation. If they wanted to screw us they wouldn't be granting refunds at all.
And two weeks to claim your refund with a heads-up given about two weeks in advance, seems fair enough to me.
If you don't get your refund request in, it seems very likely that you didn't particularly care to send it.
The main thing that matters is that the process goes smoothly, that there are no surprises.
But it should also be understood that they're not purposely trying to screw people over.
Like, what the fuck, this is literally about them refunding us and resolving the situation. If they wanted to screw us they wouldn't be granting refunds at all.
And two weeks to claim your refund with a heads-up given about two weeks in advance, seems fair enough to me.
If you don't get your refund request in, it seems very likely that you didn't particularly care to send it.
The main thing that matters is that the process goes smoothly, that there are no surprises.
Yup, they told you can choose between a refund or an Epic key on release+Steam key one year later.
Well in theory yes, since they didn't backstep on that. This week we should be able to understand more on the whole thing.
Feel like I'm missing out with both the Steelbook and now the Dreamcast case. I wish those outside of the US would be getting something extra special with their Collector's Editions which I believe we're also paying more for.
Amazing posts. Thank you for taking the time and having the patience to represent the situtation fairly given all these responses.
Publisher and storefront gifting decisions are likely, very likely out of YS Net's hands.
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Wow...
I want to say they're stupid af for doing this as it's going to cost them time and money but that EGS exclusivity deal must have been enough to make this worth it...
Here's a statement: Shenmue 3 is another failed Kickstarter project.
To understand this statement, one has to understand what Kickstarter inherently is to begin with: A way for game makers to make games they want to make without publishers either getting in the way of their vision, or just to have the game exist because no publisher wants to put out money for the game. To that end, you say how much money you need to make the game, and then you say if you get even *more* of said money you'll put even more in. It at any point after a Kickstarter project is deemed successful you actually *need* more cashflow to make the project a reality(moreso if you've already been given 3x-5x what you originally claimed you needed as is the case with the biggest projects), you've failed. Yes, this means that the vast majority of them do fail.
Understanding this concept, means it's then up to you to make sure things turn out right(which is why not much is usually made of this fact, as a high % of the ones that fall into this category do). I'm sure Yu's worked hard, and the game is his vision, and bladda bladda blah. He felt he needed more funding, so went to a publisher, who in turn went to another one later and things spiraled out of his control, ripping the project's outcome from the fans that originally were the reason this game exists to begin with and is now in publishers hands. This is 100% on him, as it's his fault the game is even in a publisher's hands to begin with. Any problems that arise with this decision is on his head.
And to others saying the 2 week window is a-ok because the game is close to release: Every other decent kickstarter that has had this problem has had the refund process way earlier and didn't have such a short window for seemingly no reason. This is no different than other KS projects that had, say, a Wii U or Vita version as something you could go for only for further in development those versions to stop being made and people having to choose a different platform. That this project has always seemed hesitant to do this common thing has always been a reason for suspicion, and it should be. The second the EGS deal was announced and they said there would be no Steam copies until quite a long time after(effectively delaying that version of the game for a solid year), refunds and the process should have been laid out in the same breath.
Here's what's going to happen
Backer type 1
Majority of backers don't care and will enjoy the game on PS4 and EGS. No refunds needed
Backer type 2
Backers who were led to believe they were getting a steam version will get a refund. More power to them as it was stated to be on steam during the surveys. These backers will get their refund during the 2 week period and move on.
Backer Type 3
These backers won't get refunds even when it's avaliable and continue to stir up drama whenever they get the chance.
Driveby Posters
These people have no interest in Shenmue or are not even backers, but If they get a chance to shite on the game via Driveby posting or cause unnecessary drama, they will.
Let's see how it plays out
Backer type 1
Majority of backers don't care and will enjoy the game on PS4 and EGS. No refunds needed
Backer type 2
Backers who were led to believe they were getting a steam version will get a refund. More power to them as it was stated to be on steam during the surveys. These backers will get their refund during the 2 week period and move on.
Backer Type 3
These backers won't get refunds even when it's avaliable and continue to stir up drama whenever they get the chance.
Driveby Posters
These people have no interest in Shenmue or are not even backers, but If they get a chance to shite on the game via Driveby posting or cause unnecessary drama, they will.
Let's see how it plays out
God, 3 months to get a refund if you don't miss the 2 weeks survey....and if we forget all this drama, install de EGS (free) and enjoy the longawaited game?, too crazy?
Remember when the First Yakuza was annouced and in the old forum everyone complained at Sega that they dont want a "shenmue ripoff" but instead an actual Shenmue 3? (i know Yakuza and Shenmue are not even similar games, im just mentioning what people said back then)
How long path we have walked since then. Suzuki-san, you played yourself.
How long path we have walked since then. Suzuki-san, you played yourself.
It will play out in the sense that ideally anyone who wants a refund gets one and if for shenmue 4 they decide to do another kickstarter that might not succeed because of decisions they made and how they have handled this kickstarter.
This is the thing that pushed me over the line. And the fact that Epic is footing the refund bill, not Ys.Net.
Epic is the one paying. The upper limit of three months is probably dependant on when they get to your individual claim and the logistics involved in refunding a 4 year old payment
