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Shenmue III Refund details
- Thread starter bell wood's jet cola
- Start date
Would you rather they lie and promise a short amount of time despite the reality of the logistical nightmare taking much longer and being honest with people up front about that (potential!) length of time for refunds?
I feel like the people most obsessed about these refunds who have no trouble keeping up with the latest news and threads on this game just to let everyone know how pissed they are at every chance will be just fine.
User banned (5 days): trolling and misrepresenting other users. Prior ban for similar behavior
Because people are crying against the epic store for no good reason. Which good they are doing that but honestly i feel people are way out of hand about this. and i feel sorry for the devs quite a bit.
This is such dismissive nonsense. You are misrepresenting the people that were upset really fucking badly here. "Crying" "no good reason". Such BS.
Crying for no good reason would be if they added the option for an EGS key to go along with the other PC options and one feels threatened by it.
Having the game not be available on Steam or DRM-free after being promised when surveys were sent out and also having the physical disc of the game not have the entire game DRM-free like promised in the Kickstarter probably deserves some criticism, you don't think.
Yes. We're being unreasonable that we wanted the pc physical copy with the data files on the disc like we were promised which is no longer happening due to EGS not supporting installations from a disc.
i agree criticism but not literally bullying them until they offer to refund everyone.
I'll never skip an opportunity to repost this:
The terms of the deal have changed. Frankly I believe I'm justified to feel like I'm no longer being offered what I signed up for.
And on a more general level, it's entirely gross that some of the most passionate supporters of this project were not treated as investors or customers, but as a product to be sold over to Epic Games so that Deep Silver (or whoever) could rake in more $$$. EGS was not even a thing when I made my pledge 4 years ago, or my survey choice last year, and I do not appreciate being locked into using them.
Gonna drop some facts then go back in my box. You don't have to like them, but that's not really my problem.
This is indisputable, and no amount of "lied" this and "promised" that will change the timeline of events where Steam keys were what people were knowingly backing for only between 15th June 2018, and 25th September 2018 via the Slacker Backer and add-on systems. Steam keys were not a given until the period that the surveys first opened and not assumed as such by the Shenmue community either, as this MegaVisions article is able to detail with an example. I can speak from personal experience of actually *being there* pre-June 2018 that this was not an isolated case.
Offering refunds is the right thing to do, but the facts and context of the matter are important, and shouldn't be ignored.
I personally backed the PC physical version fully aware I may not get more than a code in a box. I was happy to see it would later contain the data, but I was also aware that could change (some realities set in as you get closer to production); which it did.
You would think anybody who fiercely wanted a refund would be able to keep an eye on the situation as it develops, or at least check their emails once a week.
Personal responsibility has to come in somewhere, and they can't be expected to administer and issue refunds indefinitely.
Though the only option I remember that splits between platforms is PC physical and PS4 physical. This is because the PS4 physical version wasn't added until around halfway through the original campaign, so had to be added as a new tier.
And in any case they will likely go with survey responses to determine refund qualification. People can try to cheese it now if they like, but they're fully responsible for the outcome should Ys Net later identify people as gaming the system, and do something about it.
Update #104 also details that Ys Net tried to make Steam keys available day one, but got tied up in the sales policy of an unnamed company or companies:
Whether that's Epic, or Valve, or both; they did attempt to make Steam keys available to backers on day one.
Criticise them for being naive if you want, but it wasn't malicious, and there should be some amount of sympathy for a developer getting caught in the middle of an aggressive play for exclusive games by a storefront, and possibly bouncing off the rules of another. Ys Net are still using Steam for their Beta testing pipeline, so please, don't pretend this was a Machiavellian plot in the works for ages and ages. The evidence doesn't support it.
I don't particularly think it's fair to hold Ys Net to a single line in reward text written over four years ago, given that a lot changed when a publisher came on-board. They shouldn't have worded it like that in the first place, but I don't think anybody would really think the game shouldn't have been playable to press at two major trade shows leading to release, just so backers could try it first.
Backers will also be getting the best experience of this demo thanks to a few additional weeks of development (the Gamescom build was notably improved over E3), alongside a lengthier play session than was available to press. It's also coming in September, not October, barring any delays to release of the trial.
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Alrighty then. Looking forward to being called a shill. Peace out.
There's unfortunately a weird blanket rule here on ERA against discussing the specifics (so who knows, I may cop a ban for this), but it is an absolute established fact that during the Kickstarter period and up until surveys were first unveiled in June 2018, backers were not explicitly promised Steam keys as the delivery vehicle for the PC version.
This is indisputable, and no amount of "lied" this and "promised" that will change the timeline of events where Steam keys were what people were knowingly backing for only between 15th June 2018, and 25th September 2018 via the Slacker Backer and add-on systems. Steam keys were not a given until the period that the surveys first opened and not assumed as such by the Shenmue community either, as this MegaVisions article is able to detail with an example. I can speak from personal experience of actually *being there* pre-June 2018 that this was not an isolated case.
Offering refunds is the right thing to do, but the facts and context of the matter are important, and shouldn't be ignored.
Again, this isn't factual. During the Kickstarter funding period and up until the 23rd July 2018 for the Slacker Backer funding, data being on the disk was not confirmed.
I personally backed the PC physical version fully aware I may not get more than a code in a box. I was happy to see it would later contain the data, but I was also aware that could change (some realities set in as you get closer to production); which it did.
Sorry, but a two week period is perfectly reasonable, given the encroaching release date in November, and the mass manufacturing of rewards needing to start sometime in October.
You would think anybody who fiercely wanted a refund would be able to keep an eye on the situation as it develops, or at least check their emails once a week.
Personal responsibility has to come in somewhere, and they can't be expected to administer and issue refunds indefinitely.
Pledge tier text (in the righthand bar) can't be altered once someone has pledged for the reward, and I'm pretty sure the information in the main body of text on the Kickstarter page hasn't been changed since 2015.
Though the only option I remember that splits between platforms is PC physical and PS4 physical. This is because the PS4 physical version wasn't added until around halfway through the original campaign, so had to be added as a new tier.
And in any case they will likely go with survey responses to determine refund qualification. People can try to cheese it now if they like, but they're fully responsible for the outcome should Ys Net later identify people as gaming the system, and do something about it.
As per Update #104, the new surveys will offer the option to get a free additional Steam key for the game when it releases there in 2020. I will be taking this option myself, even if I'm going to play on release via EGS.
Update #104 also details that Ys Net tried to make Steam keys available day one, but got tied up in the sales policy of an unnamed company or companies:
Whether that's Epic, or Valve, or both; they did attempt to make Steam keys available to backers on day one.
This is straight up a conspiracy theory. Besides the fact there was literally zero incentive for Yu Suzuki personally or Ys Net to do any "bait and switch" tactics and unleash extra work and stress on themselves, there is now a fair amount of compelling evidence that they were left holding the bag after being beholden to a publisher's deal-making.
Criticise them for being naive if you want, but it wasn't malicious, and there should be some amount of sympathy for a developer getting caught in the middle of an aggressive play for exclusive games by a storefront, and possibly bouncing off the rules of another. Ys Net are still using Steam for their Beta testing pipeline, so please, don't pretend this was a Machiavellian plot in the works for ages and ages. The evidence doesn't support it.
Which they apologised for in the backer trial update last month:
I don't particularly think it's fair to hold Ys Net to a single line in reward text written over four years ago, given that a lot changed when a publisher came on-board. They shouldn't have worded it like that in the first place, but I don't think anybody would really think the game shouldn't have been playable to press at two major trade shows leading to release, just so backers could try it first.
Backers will also be getting the best experience of this demo thanks to a few additional weeks of development (the Gamescom build was notably improved over E3), alongside a lengthier play session than was available to press. It's also coming in September, not October, barring any delays to release of the trial.
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Alrighty then. Looking forward to being called a shill. Peace out.
Other Kickstarters in similar situations like the Phoenix Point KS offered refunds soon after their announcement for EGS exclusivity. Meanwhile, YsNet, Deep Silver, Epic were radio silent about anything offering a refund which was why more and more people were vocal about it, especially when it messed with their rewards.
I cant imagine this will be done through kickstarter or anything. I imagine people will have to provide some kind of payment method depending on how they'll be transferring the money.
Most of your post strikes me as at least a good faith attempt at offering context and perspective, but I think you're too willing to absolve the people in charge of the whole project of any responsibility. It simply is not fair or just to take money from backers to fund your project, then sign deals with big publishers after the fact for more money, who then try to sign even more deals with aggressive distribution companies for even more money at the expense of the original backers. That's the crux of this whole issue.
I like to feel that I'm pretty accepting and understanding of missed expectations in general. I can put up with a lot of failure. Shenmue itself is "over-promising and under-delivering" personified, and always has been. I've always loved it for the idea and potential that it represents, less so the games themselves, and was willing to chip in to help forward the vision after it had been left for dead. I'd be fine if the game itself was underwhelming, or if it's release was delayed even longer. That's par for the course for this franchise.
But I do not accept being treated as a product instead of an investor. It undercuts the very idea of crowdfunding. If Yu Suzuki wants funding for Shenmue 4, then he can ask Tim Sweeney for it directly, because I no longer feel compelled to offer a single cent.
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All I know is I hope the game is really good and washes away whatever ill will the crowdfunding created, cuz it'll hurt like Hell if we're stuck on another cliffhanger 'cuz of more mismanagement. If word of mouth about the game is good, then I will rest much easier.
I don't think the general public will give it a chance no matter the quality, at this point.
You mean your going to post your opinions and not really facts than stop posting because you refuse to have a conversation about it but than you admit to being a shill. So why should anyone take anything you say seriously?
There's no guarentee that they would have anyway but Y's net decided to go against their backers who specifically backed the game for it to be made.
No matter if the game is quality or not, I don't see another crowd funding campaign by them being successful because of how they have handled this.
They already lied to backers, and the fact it took this long to get refunds started, which would be unheard of if it were anything else speaks volumes about how badly this was handled.
The original Kickstarter announcement for this game was the first thing in years to incite genuine enthusiasm and enthrallment in my jaded heart. I was so fucking pumped.
Now, on the cusp of its release, I am so much more jaded and cynical than I was to begin with that I just do not even care how the game turns out, and I'm in no rush to play it.
What about changing your rewards? I backed on Day One before a lot of the other options were available. I got the "demo tier" but for the same amount of money I could have ended up with actual physical items they didn't have planned when I stepped up.
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So many 'weird' games have done well lately that I honestly have no idea what to expect. 15-20 years ago no one would've enjoyed Life is Strange. Hell, back in 2005 no one bought Yakuza, yet look at how many of those games exist now.
Yea some people are genuine with their complaints and ofc its the fault of Deep Silver,YS,Epic...etc
But theres others who literally just shit on every Shenmue thread because of this , can't really discuss any part of the game. There were some people even saying how they should give PS4 backers a refund because PC backers got screwed and they dont want to be associated with EGS.
I don't see anything wrong with that if someone backed ps4 and wants a refund because of how the kickstarter was handled than they should be allowed to get a refund. It shouldn't matter if it's ps4 or pc
30 days ? But its been way past 30 days now. The payments were processed years ago. Most payment companies wont do refunds for payments that old. They gonna have to do it for each backer.
What does PS4 have to do with EGS change tho ? I can understand being disappointed with the KS , but I don't think KS would ever work if people could just ask for refunds anytime.
yeah, I kind of expect the game to do fairly well
assuming it's a decent game ofc
I am sympathetic to the backers that backed for Steam and not that it justifies the switch to epic, but I do want to state that the KIckstarter campaign made no mention of a specific store/platform. When people pledged, they were backing for PC, with no mention of Steam.
It wasn't until surveys went out that people were able to select Steam as their preferred platform. Epic did not exist then and I feel a big majority of people who want a refund, want one due to their stance regarding Epic, I'm not sure the backlash would be as bad if it was any other platform/storefront.
It wasn't until surveys went out that people were able to select Steam as their preferred platform. Epic did not exist then and I feel a big majority of people who want a refund, want one due to their stance regarding Epic, I'm not sure the backlash would be as bad if it was any other platform/storefront.
It looks like it will at least be decent. Scores of course will be divisive.
I don't know, its coming out in November next to Pokemon, Star Wars, and Doom. It has heavy competition that month.
Yeah I'm expecting fairly decent Critic reviews, but there will probably be review-bombing on the user side (Not that those ever really matter).
Just tried this and the survey is still live and was able to change my response from PS4 to "STEAM DIGITAL DOWNLOAD," despite the fact that the survey was supposed to have been closed in January. Fucking clownshoes. Let's see if it goes through.
Yeah I figured PS4 peeps had no chance at a refund, that was always shooting from half court
If it's true that if you take an EGS copy you can also get a Steam one in a year I'mma scoop that
If it's true that if you take an EGS copy you can also get a Steam one in a year I'mma scoop that
Can't ask for PS4 refund then, I guess? Collector's editions aren't much more and I love having tat.
There's no need to whine when there's no investment. 60 euros back to spend on any great game in the upcoming months so there really isnt anything to complain about.
That really would be good news all around. I'm personally doubtful that everyone will move on though. I do genuinely believe PC players deserve their refunds if they desire it, especially on account of the physical edition. It's all coming out of Epic's pocket anyway. Even to a certain extent the people trying to find a loophole to refund this PS4 version *wink* *wink* by switching this late in the game (Hopefully that doesn't add extra stress to the team). Epic's problem. It's just certain attitudes that rub me the wrong way.
I've seen some people in the KS updates trying their hands at bank chargebacks. If such a thing was possible that'd go right back to YSNet, right? That seems pretty pathetic to me.
I wouldn't do a chargeback. It's been way too fucking long and I'm pretty sure I don't have the same cc number. I'll just resell it if switching didn't work.
Be careful, I was banned in other Shenmue threads for stating this same truth.
I will celebrate if it's not the case now, it would be a sign of things having got more calm and rational over here...
As much as I appreciate your effort for providing facts, I simply take certain things for granted. Like, data on a disk, that I expect without any confirmation.
You cant expect types like them to be reasonable, i mean this becomes obvious when them attempting to deliver "facts" amounts to a lot of literal interpretations that are never interpreted that way to begin with when it comes to these projects. Its just bullshit spin to protect obviously bullshit practices.
See, I don't even take that for granted.
Which is why I explicitly asked the developer if the disc was going to be more than a glorified activation code, as seen above.
And then they ultimately went back on their answer anyway.
I'm so not familiar with kickstarter since I haven't baked anything nor do I intent to do, so I appreciate some effort to set things into perspective that is often drowned by 'mob culture' these days. But. It's just an added perspective and people can still decide whether it changes anything for them, or not. My intuition, despite being not familiar with kickstarter practices still says to me this whole thing is bad practice and could have been handled way better, no matter the provided info (call me ignorant, if you want). And as you have correctly said, expectations and interpretations may vary and there is definitely some expected standards when it comes to this.
And people on the internet not being reasonable isn't as much as something unexpected, but something inside me triggers me to still respond (in some cases, but way less than a few years ago, though), independently of that expectation (well, sometimes, at least).
The simple answer to all of this, especially if you are not familiar with KS, is that 'adding perspective' after the fact means nothing if years ago when this was pitched, literally every KS project had certain practices that were a foregone conclusion when it came to expectations, like for one the digital release would be on steam and possibly GOG. EGS didnt even exist. This is just the case of big money exchanging hands at the top with little regard for those at the bottom, which got made worse because backers should be treated well above your average consumer, not as these companies have done.
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Some people, me included, are very emotionally invested in this series for obvious reasons, so it's easy for some of us to get a bit snippy or dismissive of concerns that seem to affect the outcome we want, which is a successful Shenmue series and more Shenmue games. I've sort of made peace with it all, though, and hope a quality game will make up for the damage done by the Kickstarter.
If people are upset, they're upset and there's nothing I can say to make that go away. It's hard to be objective, but I get it. The good news is they're finally starting to show a game that looks like it's truly Shenmue and I think that will soften the blow for some people... not all, but some. Hopefully.
If people are upset, they're upset and there's nothing I can say to make that go away. It's hard to be objective, but I get it. The good news is they're finally starting to show a game that looks like it's truly Shenmue and I think that will soften the blow for some people... not all, but some. Hopefully.
I've decided I'll be taking the refund. I originally thought that having the game 1 year later on Steam was good enough, but you know what? Nope, that's also a disrespect to your backers who made the game possible in the first place. I assume it will be done via PayPal, so I'll use that PayPal balance to buy Cyberpunk 2077 on Steam (It's 60$, since I ordered the physical version).
I'll probably buy Shenmue 3 on Steam at some point. For way less than 60$.
I'll probably buy Shenmue 3 on Steam at some point. For way less than 60$.
At this point it's really up to us, the hardcore Shenmue fans.
I think i'd compare it to indies around the time, but you're right, the month is packed with games