Shenmue III is timed exclusive to Epic Games Store, backers PC code redeemed on EGS & no refund (See Threadmark) [READ STAFF POSTS BEFORE POSTING]

[AStrangerIsHere]

This is really sad. I know that funding a game is a gamble, and I expect some games that I backed to never see the light of the day (I don't have a lot of hope for Drift Stage, for example). Nonetheless I did choose to fund some games because I wanted to help the people behind them because I just love video games, pure and simple, even though there's a possibility of failure. But this... This is something else. This is just disappointing. Especially because I don't want to support Epic and their current practices.

I think that Suzuki didn't know that this decision would cause such a huge backlash, and I still hope that they would allow a refund or maybe even provide Steam keys in some future updates. If not, well, at least, I can still change my reward to obtain a PS4 version, but I can't say I'm really happy.

 

[Reticon6]

You cannot do a charge back. People should stop floating this idea. The limit is 120 days. It's 3 1/2 years too late.

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Dammit. I thought the game not being released would still make it valid. Well thanks for that.

 

[Alucrid]

To the mods: You misinterpreted this post, it's not an attack. Both users are joking and the post is referencing the recent Collider situation as well as some posts earlier in this thread. Krejlooc backed the game for $500 and he's very upset at this news, he has no reason to be hostile towards that user. Both posts are jokes so there's no hostility there.

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oh yeah, 100% this. that wasn't a personal attack at me, just a reference to someone repeatedly invoking comparisons of this change in platform with being cheated on by a spouse.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

Money hatting is the worst.

 

[Border]

I think the best you can reasonably hope for is a refund of $30-$60 for the game itself.

The people who pledged like $500 and now want all of it back are being less sensible.

 

[BringBackSonics]

To the mods: You misinterpreted this post, it's not an attack. Both users are joking and the post is referencing the recent Collider situation as well as some posts earlier in this thread. Krejlooc backed the game for $500 and he's very upset at this news, he has no reason to be hostile towards that user. Both posts are jokes so there's no hostility there.

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That was my thought as well, Aluicard was out significant money and just as upset

 

[morningbus]

I have read them. As a big Shenmue fan, today has been pretty depressing. People are upset and have reason to be. I think YsNet should allow backers to opt-in to a Steam key regardless of any deal they made with Epic. I would say that I don't think this news has poisoned the well for all the PC backers. This is anectodal, but I've backed for a PC copy and I'm not really angry about getting my key through EGS. I'm more bothered by the PR nightmare they've walked into. It's the last thing a niche series like this needs.

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There will be no option to choose a Steam code. It is antithetical to the whole reason Epic is doing this in the first place: they want and need a captive audience. A Steam code may be offered in a year or something, which another crowd-funded game did after much uproar. But that's if the game is even coming to Steam in a year, which they've not answered with their disastrous lack of response to the issue.

The tragedy here is that a bean counter at Deep Silver has done the math and has determined that Shenmue 3 has already sold most of its copies via the Kickstarter. They do not believe in the game and the offer given to them by Epic to steal their backers made enough financial sense for them to go ahead, knowing full well the kind of reaction this would garner.

 

[BringBackSonics]

He was joking in that post. Tense thread, I think it was taken seriously, but he was clearly joking.

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Yeah, I don't want to arm chair mod, but that looked benign. Like you said it's a tense thread, so I don't fault the mods here

 

[BAN PUNCHER]

To the mods: You misinterpreted this post, it's not an attack. Both users are joking and the post is referencing the recent Collider situation as well as some posts earlier in this thread. Krejlooc backed the game for $500 and he's very upset at this news, he has no reason to be hostile towards that user. Both posts are jokes so there's no hostility there.

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oh yeah, 100% this. that wasn't a personal attack at me, just a reference to someone repeatedly invoking comparisons of this change in platform with being cheated on by a spouse.

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All questions regarding moderation should be directed to [email protected]

 

[Funtownarcade]

I don't even mind the Epic Game Store I run it every day but this is just not cool! I put $120 into this specifically because I was excited they announced a PC version.

 

[Pancoar]

Stuff like this just makes me even more weary of supporting Kickstarter campaigns... The least they could do is offer backers their steam keys even if they decide to only sell the game through Epic afterwards. :/

I really feel for people who backed this game for $500 and aren't happy with this. I'd be just as mad if not more so if I had backed this project, or any project really, for that much just to have this shit happen.

 

[Derktron]

You know I really don't care because if Valve DOESN'T give a damn about this and from the looks of it. They don't. Because they haven't done anything to attack back and it seems like they are sitting on their hands because if they did they would've done something by now. What Epic Games is doing is trying to monopolize the PC gaming market and turn it into a console market where exclusively of this nature occurs and I don't see Valve doing anything to try and counter it.

 

[Shadoken]

All questions regarding moderation should be directed to [email protected]

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is thi...is this the birth of a meme ?

It is isn't it.

 

[bobnowhere]

Is this game going to do at all well on the Epic Games Store to make up for the backlash it's getting for pulling it's Steam version?

It doesn't exactly stick out to me as a game that would necessarily appeal to the users of the Epic Games Store.

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Seems unlikely. The only games that have been reportedly successful have had huge paid by Epic streaming campaigns (WWZ and Satisfactory) and their streaming numbers have dropped off a cliff now that the money has stopped flowing. Epic had to subsidise and mass advertise a sale recently after claiming sales were bad. At some point soon that money is stopping and devs/pubs will have to run their own influencer campaigns coming out of their own pocket.

EPIC are going to have to spend huge to make Chivalry II a thing due to the rep of the company and now that we are in a post-Mordhau world.

 

[Hucast]

oh yeah, 100% this. that wasn't a personal attack at me, just a reference to someone repeatedly invoking comparisons of this change in platform with being cheated on by a spouse.

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Mods I hope you guys read this.

 

[unrealist]

I am just curious why they do not just issue refunds (isn't that handled by Kickstarter anyway?). Epic's huge checkbook to them should be more than enough to refund everyone. I doubt the crowd funding was even required too. It will at least save them some reputation.

 

[Pixieking]

You know I really don't care because if Valve DOESN'T give a damn about this and from the looks of it. They don't. Because they haven't done anything to attack back and it seems like they are sitting on their hands because if they did they would've done something by now. What Epic Games is doing is trying to monopolize the PC gaming market and turn it into a console market where exclusively of this nature occurs and I don't see Valve doing anything to try and counter it.

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I do believe they have "attacked back". I don't for one minute think Destiny 2 on Steam and MS's full-fledged support of Steam are randomly timed events that just happen to have occurred over the past week/10 days. They'll have been in the works for awhile, and Valve will have done a lot of work-behind-the-scenes with MS and Bungie to make sure everything runs smoothly.

Beyond that, Valve are libertarian in their stance - they believe in openness above all else. So how else would they "attack back"? Exclusives are antithetical to their business philosophy, which leaves... What? Their push is and always will be openness as much as possible when everything links back to Steam.

 

[Walnut]

You know I really don't care because if Valve DOESN'T give a damn about this and from the looks of it. They don't. Because they haven't done anything to attack back and it seems like they are sitting on their hands because if they did they would've done something by now. What Epic Games is doing is trying to monopolize the PC gaming market and turn it into a console market where exclusively of this nature occurs and I don't see Valve doing anything to try and counter it.

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Valve's counter is to let Epic burn a lot of money and then decide owning the PC gaming market isn't worth it. Turtling is a legitimate strategy

 

[Shaneus]

Whatever happened to the PC trial version some backer tiers were supposed to get?

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Anyone have any word on this? I was supposed to get a trial as well. Though if it's on fucking EGS...

 

[Htown]

I am just curious why they do not just issue refunds (isn't that handled by Kickstarter anyway?). Epic's huge checkbook to them should be more than enough to refund everyone. I doubt the crowd funding was even required too. It will at least save them some reputation.

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Yes, but you see, you have failed to consider the mitigating circumstance that prevents them from giving refunds:
They don't want to.

 

[Uzzy]

is thi...is this the birth of a meme ?

It is isn't it.

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All questions regarding the birthing of memes should be directed to [email protected]

 

[hidys]

I am just curious why they do not just issue refunds (isn't that handled by Kickstarter anyway?). Epic's huge checkbook to them should be more than enough to refund everyone. I doubt the crowd funding was even required too. It will at least save them some reputation.

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Because they want the conscripts to their service.

 

[voOsh]

I am just curious why they do not just issue refunds (isn't that handled by Kickstarter anyway?). Epic's huge checkbook to them should be more than enough to refund everyone. I doubt the crowd funding was even required too. It will at least save them some reputation.

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Reputation only matters if they needed it for future games and sales. They got the Kickstarter money. They got paid and they're not giving it back.

 

[Derktron]

Valve's counter is to let Epic burn a lot of money and then decide owning the PC gaming market isn't worth it. Turtling is a legitimate strategy

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That will never happen as long as Fornite continues to give them money and let's not forget, they have Unreal Engine. That will never happen. Nothing will happen.

 

[FF Seraphim]

All questions regarding moderation should be directed to [email protected]

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Bahahaha. So it will go to Ys Net then forwarded to Deep Silver then who gets it next!?

 

[Derktron]

I do believe they have "attacked back". I don't for one minute think Destiny 2 on Steam and MS's full-fledged support of Steam are randomly timed events that just happen to have occurred over the past week/10 days. They'll have been in the works for awhile, and Valve will have done a lot of work-behind-the-scenes with MS and Bungie to make sure everything runs smoothly.

Beyond that, Valve are libertarian in their stance - they believe in openness above all else. So how else would they "attack back"? Exclusives are antithetical to their business philosophy, which leaves... What? Their push is and always will be openness as much as possible when everything links back to Steam.

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Meaning devs would continue to move to Epic store. That means shit to devs. Money is the biggest factor to all this. If devs don't get a higher percentage on Steam then they'll continue to move to Epic Games.

 

[Xiaomi]

Has anyone made a Spanish laughing guy sub video for this thing yet? I could use some cheering up.

 

[Jakisthe]

Valve's counter is to let Epic burn a lot of money and then decide owning the PC gaming market isn't worth it. Turtling is a legitimate strategy

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With Tencent's backing and how "establishing footholds" works, I don't see it being the winning play. Steam should start snapping up tons of exclusives themselves. Will it suck? Sure. Is Epic to blame? Absolutely. They ruined the landscape.

 

[ErazorRain]

Epic is throwing so much money at developers that devs could care less about the "protests" and "tantrums" you guys throw. As long as Steam is not giving a damn about Epic Game Store no protest and sh*tstorm in the world will change anything. Might wanna wake Gaben up from his eternal slumber of not giving a sh*t, then things might change....

 

[Uzzy]

With Tencent's backing and how "establishing footholds" works, I don't see it being the winning play. Steam should start snapping up tons of exclusives themselves. Will it suck? Sure. Is Epic to blame? Absolutely. They ruined the landscape.

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Steam ruining the landscape some more won't fix anything.

 

[Kareha]

They are actually allowing you to chargeback?

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Yes, my bank is a good bank. They said it will take a few days but its currently processing.

 

[MrCunningham]

I think that Suzuki didn't know that this decision would cause such a huge backlash, and I still hope that they would allow a refund or maybe even provide Steam keys in some future updates. If not, well, at least, I can still change my reward to obtain a PS4 version, but I can't say I'm really happy.

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Yeah, he might not understand the nature of Steam, and why some people are really upset over the whole situation. They did kickstart a game that was promised to have a Steam key. Some people (Like cooljerK) were looking forward to the extended features on Steam. It is bad form to screw over your original backers by not giving them what they paid for.

Clearly the move to the EGS was Deep Silver's idea. It was confirmed by Yu Suzuki that they convinced him this was the best way to go. Personally, I can't find any faults in this change, myself. The Epic Game Store is a new development that didn't exist four years ago. The 12% royalty fee vs the 35% royalty fee on Steam is a big deciding factor. Really, it all just comes down to maximizing profit for Deep Silver.

For example, let's say the steam version sells 10,000 copies in its first week or so (I am pulling up random numbers). They sell the game for $50. That would rake in $500,000. Then Valve comes in and takes their 30% cut, which then knocks down profits to $350,000. Then Epic's 5% cut comes in at 5% and drops the profits down to $332,500. In the EGS, they sell the game for $50 and hit 10,000 sales. Take away the 12% and their profits would be $440,000 after Epic's cut. That's a differences of $107,500. Deep Silver would have to sell another 2150 copies on Steam to compensate. Assuming the game sells that well within a week. Plus there is the $500,000 exclusivity bonus as well.

Deep Silver only really see's their bottom line with this game. They want to maximize game sales by forcing everyone to use the Epic Games Launcher. Which is completely fine, IMO. However, the real issues comes when they screw over their original backers in the process. Which is part of this series most hardcore fanbase, as pointed out by Krejlooc. You can;t really blame Kickstarter here, as they functioned exactly like they should. But there is a poor handling of this change in clients.

 

[Pixieking]

Meaning devs would continue to move to Epic store. That means shit to devs. Money is the biggest factor to all this. If devs don't get a higher percentage on Steam then they'll continue to move to Epic Games.

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The dev split is... It's not as big a factor as being handed money for every sale. Which is basically what Epic are doing - they're guaranteeing sale revenue to a certain point. So, like, Untitled Goose Game being exclusive to EGS makes sense - weird niche title from a dev who only has one other game (on Steam) to their name. The same - pretty-much - with Shenmue. Decades old franchise that has lots of word of mouth, but probably isn't going to sell much past the first couple of months (if that, considering the release window of bloody November!). Like, I am in no way minimising Shenmue fans or the franchise, but it's not going to sell millions.

So, yeah, Valve should rethink their split. But let's not pretend it's the split that devs are going to EGS for, because what they make up for with the split, they lose on there being less sales. It's the money-hat exclusive that they're going there for, and that's something that Valve can't/won't reciprocate against in the same way.

 

[TwoPikachus]

Epic is throwing so much money at developers that devs could care less about the "protests" and "tantrums" you guys throw. As long as Steam is not giving a damn about Epic Game Store no protest and sh*tstorm in the world will change anything. Might wanna wake Gaben up from his eternal slumber of not giving a sh*t, then things might change....

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Don't be reductive with that 'tantrums' comment. We're paying customers not getting what we asked for, not children being told there will be no ice cream.

We work for our money and spend it on things we like. When what we buy is not to our standards, we're allowed to get upset.

Fuck out of here with that.

 

[YuSuzzune]

So they are not even refunding...what a piece of crap. Those clowns took money where they could using the Shenmue brand and nostalgia factor just to cash out.

 

[ChemicalWorld]

Honestly hope that these twats get legal action because this is fuckery to the nth degree. Fuck shit like this...

 

[Defuser]

I do believe they have "attacked back". I don't for one minute think Destiny 2 on Steam and MS's full-fledged support of Steam are randomly timed events that just happen to have occurred over the past week/10 days. They'll have been in the works for awhile, and Valve will have done a lot of work-behind-the-scenes with MS and Bungie to make sure everything runs smoothly.

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More like steam userbase is bigger and also because Bungie doesn't want Destiny 2 to be overshadowed by Epic's own Fortnite on EGS. Tfue and DrLupo were Destiny players before they move on to be big on Fortnite.

Valve hardly need to lift a finger.

 

[Arkanius]

EU backers, how should we proceed with this? No refunds is unlawful.

 

[InspectorJones]

Steam doesn't have to do anything as Market Leaders and I admire their hands-off approach; Epic themselves is demonstrating how destructive they can be by artificially controlling the market. Yeah, not every PC gamer will give a shit; but I think time after time has proven that a large majority do get angry. Just visit any gaming site and you'll see there is a backlash against all of Epic's moves. It doesn't matter to Valveif Epic can moneyhat and push their hardest to achieve 500K sales for Satisfactory after 4 months when unexpected indie gems like Mordhau and Risk of Rain can push a million sales in their release month alone and have crazy tails.

People who want Valve to act or start dealing with their own exclusives are absurd. Their approach has always been open and I think that the best games will end up on Steam because they will sell well on Steam.

Epic will have to keep investing crazy money into their storefront, but they won't get customers who want to use EGS; only tolerate it, and they're never going to get every game exclusive and off the Steam store. They'll only continue to alienate gamers who find their practices intolerable with every demonstration of their obscene Fortnite wealth, but I'll admit they can keep going at it as long as Fortnite keeps them afloat but they'll never topple Steam with their approach.

 

[GranddadFreeman]

All questions regarding moderation should be directed to [email protected]

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I'm glad I went through 20 pages for this. I'm cackling

 

[Berto]

With Tencent's backing and how "establishing footholds" works, I don't see it being the winning play. Steam should start snapping up tons of exclusives themselves. Will it suck? Sure. Is Epic to blame? Absolutely. They ruined the landscape.

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Escalation will make things worse for everyone. Epic has all the money in the world and theres no way to outspend them.

 

[InspectorJones]

I do believe they have "attacked back". I don't for one minute think Destiny 2 on Steam and MS's full-fledged support of Steam are randomly timed events that just happen to have occurred over the past week/10 days. They'll have been in the works for awhile, and Valve will have done a lot of work-behind-the-scenes with MS and Bungie to make sure everything runs smoothly.

Beyond that, Valve are libertarian in their stance - they believe in openness above all else. So how else would they "attack back"? Exclusives are antithetical to their business philosophy, which leaves... What? Their push is and always will be openness as much as possible when everything links back to Steam.

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Gabe has denied any involvement with getting Halo on Steam.

 

[Rosebud]

Escalation will make things worse for everyone. Epic has all the money in the world and theres no way to outspend them.

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And this puzzles me. Of all the games they could buy, they choose a crowdfunded niche japanese game.

Meanwhile Steam gets Destiny and Halo.

 

[Deleted member 10551]

Escalation will make things worse for everyone. Epic has all the money in the world and theres no way to outspend them.

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Valve also has a ton of money and isn't as spread around. If they wanted to slug it out with Epic, they could. It would be a bad play for Valve, as their biggest asset right now is PC goodwill. Should say zero support for any publisher who takes a moneyhat to yank a game from Steam- you can have your game on the store, but it will never be featured/pushed. You'll be stuck with the shovelware forever.

The most effective target to go after here is Kickstarter, even if it isn't their fault. Just say flat out no more backing any games on Kickstarter until they do something about this. I'm not sure they can do something about this, but if they can't, then the concept of Kickstarter is too much of a risk in the current climate.

 

[Deaf Spacker]

This is some scummy shit as well as no refunds being illegal in the EU.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

And this puzzles me. Of all the games they could buy, they choose a crowdfunded niche japanese game.

Meanwhile Steam gets Destiny and Halo.

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I'm baffled myself.

Epic's gameplan consists of making consumers miserable and then ....????
Where's the profit in that?

 

[Walnut]

And this puzzles me. Of all the games they could buy, they choose a crowdfunded niche japanese game.

Meanwhile Steam gets Destiny and Halo.

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The reality to that is Epic isn't giving out enough money to get those kind of big budget AAA games

It's the indies who are taking on (arguably) more risk who see the appeal in taking the bribe check. Shenmue III, seedy publisher aside, could definitely be viewed as an indie game in its own right too.

 

[Xiaomi]

EU backers, how should we proceed with this? No refunds is unlawful.

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The legal tests this would have to pass are:

1. Is backing on Kickstarter the same as buying a good/service covered by consumer protection laws?
2. Would a reasonable person have had good reason to believe they were going to receive a Steam copy in exchange for their purchase?

The second one is obviously yes, but the first one is trickier. I think it could be successfully argued that it is the same, but it would depend on whatever law firm steps up to the challenge of litigating this.

 

[Pixieking]

Gabe has denied any involvement with getting Halo on Steam.

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Hmmm... Interesting. Got a source? I totally believe you, but I'm wondering if he's playing with words, like "I wasn't involved, but someone else at Valve was". There must have been some involvement somewhere along the line, since (afaik) Valve has staff who act as business partners/liaisons with devs/pubs, but maybe MS made the decision on their own, and then contacted Valve? Hmmm.

And this puzzles me. Of all the games they could buy, they choose a crowdfunded niche japanese game.

Meanwhile Steam gets Destiny and Halo.

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An alternate reading of all this is that MS and Bungie aren't convinced by a) Epic's sales numbers, b) their infrastructure, and c) the long-term viability of the store, so just decided to ignore EGS altogether.

 

[Champion]

Really the tragedy of this is it'll make more people hesitant to support kickstarter games despite so many being excellent.

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Funding a Kickstarter game is basically throwing money at a game with minimal information. Basically blind faith.

I'm not going to knock someone for doing it but you won't catch me out here like that. No sir. I've been gaming for way too long and seen too much questionable or shady things for me to just blindly throw money at a company in hopes that the game turn out the way I want it too. Nah I'm good. I'll wait to see the final product and make my decision then.

I recommend everyone learns from this and does the same.