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Oct 30, 2017
5,006
Honest question.

Let's say hypothetically Ys Net / Deep Silver we're in dire straits behind the scenes with this. Not unreasonable to think considering how many times this has been delayed.

Let's say this deal got them to the finish line so that the game could be released, period.

Is this a fair trade for that piece of mind, or would you rather they didn't do the deal at the risk of no one having ANY version of this, with EVERY backer getting screwed in the process?

For me, given the delays and given the uneven dev cycle that usually means trouble, it's a fair trade.

If you feel like you may or may not make t to the finish line, don't promise a specific delivery option (IE: Steam.). It's not a fair trade at all when they're refusing to either 1) Deliver what was promised, or 2) Refund people who are no longer satisfied.
 

bobnowhere

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,526
Elsewhere for 8 minutes
Pretty standard business tactic, automatically deny all refunds and hope the problem goes away. They'll cave at some point under the pressure but by then some people will have forgotten and their liability will be smaller.
 

Vault Boy

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,393
I guess I better call my bank tomorrow and see if I can get my money back.
Fuck that I'm calling my bank tomorrow.

If the charge is more than 60 days old, which it will be in this case, your bank is not going to refund you. They're going to send a request for proof that you authorized the charge to the originating bank, which will then obtain that proof of authorization from the vendor (which is Kickstarter in this case, and you can bet they're going to have the proof on file). When that proof of authorization is provided, your bank is going to say "sorry, you authorized this charge and it's more than 60 days old, no take-backsies on our end, any dispute is between you and the vendor at this point."

Source: am banker and deal with these situations all day every day.
 

Elfforkusu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,098
Honest question.

Let's say hypothetically Ys Net / Deep Silver we're in dire straits behind the scenes with this. Not unreasonable to think considering how many times this has been delayed.

Let's say this deal got them to the finish line so that the game could be released, period.

Is this a fair trade for that piece of mind, or would you rather they didn't do the deal at the risk of no one having ANY version of this, with EVERY backer getting screwed in the process?

For me, given the delays and given the uneven dev cycle that usually means trouble, it's a fair trade.
The problem is that this is a revival built on good will, and they're basically killing that good will. If they can't secure funding for Shenmue 4 -- and there's no way 3 will totally finish the saga (I'm hoping for some closure to the threads from 1, but expecting more questions than answers) -- this decision essentially sabotages any attempt to crowdfund again. It *also* sabotages the sales potential of 3 on PC, because lol EGS.

I hope they got a fat paycheck from Epic, because this is going to cost them more than a few million $.

(YsNet surely doesn't understand what they've done, though. They're a JP dev, they probably were sold on it as a win/win)
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,422
Honest question.

Let's say hypothetically Ys Net / Deep Silver we're in dire straits behind the scenes with this. Not unreasonable to think considering how many times this has been delayed.

Let's say this deal got them to the finish line so that the game could be released, period.

Is this a fair trade for that piece of mind, or would you rather they didn't do the deal at the risk of no one having ANY version of this, with EVERY backer getting screwed in the process?

For me, given the delays and given the uneven dev cycle that usually means trouble, it's a fair trade.

Still no. Give people the refund that you are backing out on. No matter what way you hypothetically spin this (these hypotheticals have no real world value btw.... just saying. Its annoying when people come into real situations like YEAH BUT WHAT IF!) they should at the very least be giving refunds where requested. In no way is this some situation where this was their ONLY reasonable path.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,798
Honest question.

Let's say hypothetically Ys Net / Deep Silver we're in dire straits behind the scenes with this. Not unreasonable to think considering how many times this has been delayed.

Let's say this deal got them to the finish line so that the game could be released, period.

Is this a fair trade for that piece of mind, or would you rather they didn't do the deal at the risk of no one having ANY version of this, with EVERY backer getting screwed in the process?

For me, given the delays and given the uneven dev cycle that usually means trouble, it's a fair trade.

Did you just manufacture a hypothetical scenario that made this whole thing okay and then... convince yourself of that scenario being reality all by the end of your post?
 
Jul 17, 2018
480
Honest question.

Let's say hypothetically Ys Net / Deep Silver we're in dire straits behind the scenes with this. Not unreasonable to think considering how many times this has been delayed.

Let's say this deal got them to the finish line so that the game could be released, period.

Is this a fair trade for that piece of mind, or would you rather they didn't do the deal at the risk of no one having ANY version of this, with EVERY backer getting screwed in the process?

For me, given the delays and given the uneven dev cycle that usually means trouble, it's a fair trade.

They got money from Sony (they paid for marketing), the people who kickstarted it, Deep Silver and now Epic. I honestly don't think they're running out of money. I do think though the game'll bomb and they saw it when Shenmue HD sold below par. So moving to Epic is basically just ensuring a safe landing for them even if the game underperforms (which is very likely as most of the people who really want to play it already paid for it).

And it is a shitty move from them.
 

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,058
Another scummy move by Sweeney on a crowdsourced game. And seriously fuck off with the "fine print" argument to excuse what is obviously a bullshit move. They told their backers steam and now they are going back on it. AND NOT GIVING REFUNDS.

Seriously if your argument depends on arguing the fine print and "buyer beware", you have no argument.

You are either trolling or have the most scumbag apathy towards consumers I have heard about.
 
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LazyLain

Member
Jan 17, 2019
6,486
Steam doesn't pay publishers to refrain from putting their games elsewhere. Also, many steam games are drm free. I'm not sure how much more open you can be aside from giving the game away for free.
Is Steam itself not a form of DRM in a way? Outside of maybe an odd exception here or there, Steam games need to be launched from within Steam right? Or at the very least need Steam to also be running? Or am I mistaken?

GOG is an example of something more open. You don't even need to install their launcher.

And sure, Steam doesn't pay publishers to lock down exclusives. But they don't really need to, considering they already practically have a monopoly on the PC gaming front... there's uPlay and Origin which are basically just for Ubisoft/EA's own content, and there's GOG for any games brave enough to go fully DRM free. And I suppose Microsoft tried with the Windows store, I guess. But realistically when people think PC gaming, they think Steam.

find me anyone who would care if it was coming to epic games store or any store at all in addition to steam

people don't cheer for steam exclusivity
I'm afraid I don't follow your argument here. I'm not saying people cheer for Steam exclusivity, merely pointing out that that's exactly what most PC games are and what Shenmue 3 was originally slated to be. Steam's not an open platform, so it seems disingenuous to argue that this EGS exclusivity is locking down the open nature of the PC platform.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,218
User Banned (3 Days): Ignoring Staff Post
completely divorced from any legitimate arguments or opinions: this is extremely funny
 

Lindsay

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,131
I get people are pissed at this decision but it's very, very unlikely Ys Net has their ear to the ground enough to know what the reaction to EGS exclusivity would be. Deep Silver would, however, and could have quite easily pitched it as a straight win - which in the context of waiving engine licence fees and getting a higher sales revenue cut, is easy to do if you don't understand the ins and outs of the digital distribution platform wars. Ys Net would have had a say, but it's not guaranteed they understood the repercussions if the publisher is only telling you the upsides.
If I could grasp these ins and outs from reading a few random forum posts (while also not being a pc gamer!) then they gots zero excuse for not knowing 'em. So either they knew an didn't care, or they didn't know meaning they didn't care enough ta do their dang jobs properly. Either way its a supremely bad look for YS and the other people at the top of this projects management. Trying ta shield 'em under the "they didn't understand" is just as silly as trying to shield the umpteenth person coming into this thread saying "hi console gamer here and what is the big deal lol btw i'm totes genuine".
 

Doskoi Panda

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,935
For me; terrible forums and achievements no one really cares about. C'mon. Cloud saves are the only thing worth complaining about.
Cloud saves are huge, but for some of us, when a game is made EGS exclusive, we lose out on a lot more than that. This is what I stand to lose out on personally whenever an anticipated game makes the move:

- forums that have proven invaluable on dozens of occasions in quickly finding answers and solutions for esoteric issues w/games that would have otherwise required trawling google and piecing together myself

- mod support backed by a fairly comprehensive mod distribution and management platform built into Steam that has enabled hundreds of thousands of mods, many of which are games that wouldn't have seen a fraction of the mod support without such a centralized and easy-to-use resource at their disposal

- deep integrated control customization which allows me to use any input device I own to play any game I own on PC, whether that game was designed for such an input device, or anything besides kb/m for that matter, and which grants me a massive degree of control over how my controls work, for accessibility and for function

- a large network of engaged users who give the above features real worth via their contributions: forums give people a visible central place to provide support and share their own solutions, the mod distribution and management platform enables users to improve the experience of a game over time for one another, and users can upload their custom controls for any device and any game or program that they run through Steam, freely available to other users

- Steam in-home and remote streaming complete with full in-game overlays and controller customization functionality, which are things that generally support non-Steam games run through Steam, but not without frequent issues inherent to how non-Steam games handle controls and overlays. I've played a number of Steam games on my phone in bed, or on a tablet at a friend's house. It's a big feature for me that I like to play around with and as with controller customization it's complete to the extent that I can even integrate my device's motion sensors into my custom control schemes while streaming.

- regular deals facilitated through the Steam store itself and through stores which sell generated Steam keys that don't require a cut paid to Valve despite being distributed through Steam and backed by the platform's suite of tools, services, and functionality - this often enabling those stores and affiliated pubs/devs to cut the sort of deep deals that PC gaming is known for without breaking the bank

And that's just the stuff that's really important to me. The shit I've listed above can augment the experience of playing a game in ways that make or break the entire experience. These things improve my experience, sometimes drastically. And of course I've got a laundry list of little annoyances and things I'd lose out on when one of my most anticipated upcoming games moves to Steam, but I think you'd find them largely unimportant to you personally, and thus easy for you to deem 'unworthy of complaining about'. Ultimately, though, it should be easy for you to see how EGS offers me, as a player and as a consumer, virtually nothing that isn't utterly superceded by what's available elsewhere.

All that EGS offers me as their customer is the opportunity to pay Epic a distributor cut, instead of Valve or any other entity... and Epic doesn't intend to coerce me into doing so with a merit-based approach, but by holding my favored franchises hostage under the condition that I capitulate. That's not a precedent that I'm comfortable helping to set. Epic expects me and other consumers to willingly constrain our experience as PC gamers, and to willingly give up the expectation that a platform-holder should work to appease consumers beyond leveraging warchests to secure rights to valued brands.

Epic is orders of magnitudes bigger than Valve, for what it's worth. You might argue that Steam is the defacto place to game on PC and therefore that they didn't earn my support, but I support a variety of platforms and storefronts on PC that thrive alongside Steam, and while any of them may have compelling features and solid reasons to support them, Steam comes out ahead, and that's not a sentiment borne from attachment to the Steam brand. Epic, on the other hand, was more than capable of putting together a platform meant to convince people to use it based on how it would stand to improve their experience - and they've chosen a much more unsavory approach. So who needs 'em?

in a nutshell, Epic don't intend to earn my support, and thus, they won't. They've given me and others plenty to complain about, so while it might seem like a reasonable position in the moment for you to be like, "come on, those things you value aren't really important", try and understand that there's plenty not to like here, not just the loss of achievements, forums, and cloud saves.
 
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Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Is Steam itself not a form of DRM in a way? Outside of maybe an odd exception here or there, Steam games need to be launched from within Steam right? Or at the very least need Steam to also be running? Or am I mistaken?

GOG is an example of something more open. You don't even need to install their launcher.

And sure, Steam doesn't pay publishers to lock down exclusives. But they don't really need to, considering they already practically have a monopoly on the PC gaming front... there's uPlay and Origin which are basically just for Ubisoft/EA's own content, and there's GOG for any games brave enough to go fully DRM free. And I suppose Microsoft tried with the Windows store, I guess. But realistically when people think PC gaming, they think Steam.


I'm afraid I don't follow your argument here. I'm not saying people cheer for Steam exclusivity, merely pointing out that that's exactly what most PC games are and what Shenmue 3 was originally slated to be. Steam's not an open platform, so it seems disingenuous to argue that this EGS exclusivity is locking down the open nature of the PC platform.

for people questioning what I meant when I said people can't distinguish the difference between steam, the client, and steam, the store, look no further than this post.
 

Bog

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,428
Kickstarted the PC version for a couple hundred bucks and could not give a fuck about this "controversial" decision.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,419
Wow gamers are passionate. 44 pages in one day just because Shemue 3?isn't coming to Stream. shemue probably won't even get past 85 on metacritic... Or is there more to this?
I'm not the kind of person whose bothered what format a game is as long as I can still play it, don't usually care about 'store wars' ... but this is cheeky.

It's like when a restaurant puts vinegar on your chips and you asked for none, it's your money and it would be disrespectful if they don't get you a fresh portion. Lol maybe a silly comparison :D but it's disrespectful to what the customer ordered if the Steam format was mentioned and what they wanted.
 

Deleted member 42

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
16,939
Yeah deadass this is scumball city don't let anybody tell you otherwise

In terms of how fucked up the EGS moneyhats have been so far it'd go:

Shenmue 3 (Promised Steam keys to backers, not only not getting those but no refunds)
Metro Exodus (Two weeks before launch)
Phoenix Point (Promised Steam keys to backers, eventually acquiesced to refunds and providing keys a year after the release)

Those are the real nasty ones I remember
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,179
Is Steam itself not a form of DRM in a way? Outside of maybe an odd exception here or there, Steam games need to be launched from within Steam right? Or at the very least need Steam to also be running? Or am I mistaken?

GOG is an example of something more open. You don't even need to install their launcher.

And sure, Steam doesn't pay publishers to lock down exclusives. But they don't really need to, considering they already practically have a monopoly on the PC gaming front... there's uPlay and Origin which are basically just for Ubisoft/EA's own content, and there's GOG for any games brave enough to go fully DRM free. And I suppose Microsoft tried with the Windows store, I guess. But realistically when people think PC gaming, they think Steam.

Steam isn't DRM. Some games use Steam as DRM, but there are a lot of DRM free games on Steam where once you download it, you never need to use Steam for it again.

And Steam isn't a monopoly. Hell, some of the biggest PC games like WoW and League of Legends aren't even on Steam. Not to mention there's GoG, Humble, GMG, etc. People flock to Steam because they like the features it provides.
 

ZeroDS

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
3,419
Man I'm late to this. This sucks I guess (I went PS4) but I think this is the most attention I've ever seen a Shenmue thread on here ever get
 

MaulerX

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,691
If the charge is more than 60 days old, which it will be in this case, your bank is not going to refund you. They're going to send a request for proof that you authorized the charge to the originating bank, which will then obtain that proof of authorization from the vendor (which is Kickstarter in this case, and you can bet they're going to have the proof on file). When that proof of authorization is provided, your bank is going to say "sorry, you authorized this charge and it's more than 60 days old, no take-backsies on our end, any dispute is between you and the vendor at this point."

Source: am banker and deal with these situations all day every day.


So we truly are fucked. They probably knew this very well too when they decided to do this. I paid for a physical copy and I'm going to get a code for a digital copy...... for the EGS. A PC game store that didn't even exist when the kickstarter began. Fuckery in it's truest form.
 
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Mechaplum

Enlightened
Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,795
JP
Disgusting, kinda regret buying Shemue 1 and 2. On my PS4.

Tech and gating aside, Sweeney is a fucking liar.

Edit: Also this thread has been an amazing display of false equivalencies and horrible horrible analogies.
 

TheUnseenTheUnheard

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 25, 2018
9,647
Man I'm late to this. This sucks I guess (I went PS4) but I think this is the most attention I've ever seen a Shenmue thread on here ever get
It's probably a combination of things like Tim Sweeney saying they wouldn't moneyhat games with a presence on Steam and that backers were mislead. When it comes to anti-consumer bullshit everyone should have the right to take action against it whether they have direct involvement or not.
 

unrealist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
757
EGS is so rich (and getting richer day by day), it is hard to do anything to stop them. Unfortunately this is how the world works :(
 

JayCB64

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,977
Wales
Man I'm late to this. This sucks I guess (I went PS4) but I think this is the most attention I've ever seen a Shenmue thread on here ever get
Well yeah, you don't think a PC Gamer™ would miss a chance to rag on the Epic Game Store, do you?

(Real talk, it's pretty justified for people to be mad in this case, but yeah, it does feel like normally we hit like 5 pages max on a Shenmue 3 thread lol)

(Also also, PS4 physical here babyyyy)
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,419
Thanks for letting us know bro.
I agree, I'm always trying to see the positive in the Shenmue series and not usually bothered by exclusives, but I think this is cheeky to say the least, when it wasn't part of the Shenmue 3 deal for people who already paid for it. It's hard to defend when some were expecting the whole Shenmue collection in one place.
 

Merc

Member
Jun 10, 2018
1,252
This is absolutely despicable. Disgusting. I am also a backer of Shenmue 3. I 100% want a refund. This is crazy. Can someone please make an online petition or someway for all of us backers to request a refund. I was going to contact the Shenmue 3 team on Kickstarter but after hearing that there not giving out refunds has me discouraged to do that and outraged. I want my money back.
 

Custódio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,900
Brazil, Unaí/MG
Is Steam itself not a form of DRM in a way? Outside of maybe an odd exception here or there, Steam games need to be launched from within Steam right? Or at the very least need Steam to also be running? Or am I mistaken?
You are mistaken, yes. Steam isn't DRM. Tons of steam games don't need to be launched from within Steam nor Steam needs to be running. The DRM is a dev/publisher choice.
 

sleepnaught

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,538
For some of us comfy couch PC gamers, Steam is often the only choice. Not necessarily for Shenmue, but alot of games out there have poor or no controller support and running them through Steam is the only way to play them with a controller. About 5 minutes into Microsoft's new store made me realize how much for granted I have taken Steam's extensive controller support. I can use literally almost any controller in existence and map it to play any game on Steam's library. That alone puts Steam head and shoulders above the competition for me. It's the only store that guarantees I can play every game I buy on their store with any controller of my choice, which is usually my NSW Pro controller or Steam controller. I'm shit out of luck with EGS or Xbox store if I can't get one to work on their version of the game.
 

Spaghetti

Member
Dec 2, 2017
2,740
If I could grasp these ins and outs from reading a few random forum posts (while also not being a pc gamer!) then they gots zero excuse for not knowing 'em.
Do you genuinely think a small independent Japanese studio in an intense period of work making final preparations for release read Western forums. I get the "I know, so they should to" argument is appealing but it doesn't really hold up to much common sense when you think where they are, and what they're doing.

Ideally this what a Western publisher would fill them in on. Except maybe they didn't, or at least did not explain the severity. If the Metro deal did end up being successful after all (there were conflicting opinions based on THQ Nordic's financials press conference), they could have either whitewashed the risk by not explaining it, or platitudes that it'll be alright in the end. Or perhaps something just necessitated such a drastic business decision. Or maybe an offer that can't be refused was made. I don't know, and neither do you really.

I know it's very common for gamers to consider every decision they don't like to be made by scheming individuals out to get them personally, but it's dumb to think any of this is done maliciously, and the character assassination attempts are just plain low to be honest. Decisions like this are made on consensus, but it's not infallible if the information is incomplete or inaccurate, the scope of repercussions are not understood, or necessity forced it.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Well yeah, you don't think a PC Gamer™ would miss a chance to rag on the Epic Game Store, do you?

(Real talk, it's pretty justified for people to be mad in this case, but yeah, it does feel like normally we hit like 5 pages max on a Shenmue 3 thread lol)

(Also also, PS4 physical here babyyyy)

surprise surprise, console gamers in here to wag their finger about how pc gamers should act.

sorry you ignored all previous threads.
 

Arklite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,638
Epic Games Store is increasingly personified as dastardly mustachioed man in my mind. Consistently turning cheers into groans, it's comical.
 

Alucrid

Chicken Photographer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,413
Do you genuinely think a small independent Japanese studio in an intense period of work making final preparations for release read Western forums. I get the "I know, so they should to" argument is appealing but it doesn't really hold up to much common sense when you think where they are, and what they're doing.

Ideally this what a Western publisher would fill them in on. Except maybe they didn't, or at least did not explain the severity. If the Metro deal did end up being successful after all (there were conflicting opinions based on THQ Nordic's financials press conference), they could have either whitewashed the risk by not explaining it, or platitudes that it'll be alright in the end. Or perhaps something just necessitated such a drastic business decision. Or maybe an offer that can't be refused was made. I don't know, and neither do you really.

I know it's very common for gamers to consider every decision they don't like to be made by scheming individuals out to get them personally, but it's dumb to think any of this is done maliciously, and the character assassination attempts are just plain low to be honest. Decisions like this are made on consensus, but it's not infallible if the information is incomplete or inaccurate, the scope of repercussions are not understood, or necessity forced it.

if they're as inept and incompetent as you're painting them it bodes ill for the actual product
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,179
Do you genuinely think a small independent Japanese studio in an intense period of work making final preparations for release read Western forums. I get the "I know, so they should to" argument is appealing but it doesn't really hold up to much common sense when you think where they are, and what they're doing.

Ideally this what a Western publisher would fill them in on. Except maybe they didn't, or at least did not explain the severity. If the Metro deal did end up being successful after all (there were conflicting opinions based on THQ Nordic's financials press conference), they could have either whitewashed the risk by not explaining it, or platitudes that it'll be alright in the end. Or perhaps something just necessitated such a drastic business decision. Or maybe an offer that can't be refused was made. I don't know, and neither do you really.

I know it's very common for gamers to consider every decision they don't like to be made by scheming individuals out to get them personally, but it's dumb to think any of this is done maliciously, and the character assassination attempts are just plain low to be honest. Decisions like this are made on consensus, but it's not infallible if the information is incomplete or inaccurate, the scope of repercussions are not understood, or necessity forced it.

Regardless of if Suzuki knew what he was getting into before today, he knows now that people want refunds. There's no defense for not giving people refunds when you're refusing to fulfill their pledges.
 

Elfforkusu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,098
if they're as inept and incompetent as you're painting them it bodes ill for the actual product
I don't see it, I expect game devs -- even good ones -- to be pretty inept at marketing

It's a bummer they walked into this one though, it's going to hurt them, the fans, and the franchise as a whole. Everybody loses but Epic
 

JayCB64

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,977
Wales
surprise surprise, console gamers in here to wag their finger about how pc gamers should act.

sorry you ignored all previous threads.
All of those are literally under five pages like I said though lol.

Like I said there, this is pretty justifed response to the situation, no judgement here so please dont take it as such. Just commenting on Zero's point that this is the most traffic the game has had since announcement was all.
 

morningbus

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,044
Do you genuinely think a small independent Japanese studio in an intense period of work making final preparations for release read Western forums. I get the "I know, so they should to" argument is appealing but it doesn't really hold up to much common sense when you think where they are, and what they're doing.

Ideally this what a Western publisher would fill them in on. Except maybe they didn't, or at least did not explain the severity. If the Metro deal did end up being successful after all (there were conflicting opinions based on THQ Nordic's financials press conference), they could have either whitewashed the risk by not explaining it, or platitudes that it'll be alright in the end. Or perhaps something just necessitated such a drastic business decision. Or maybe an offer that can't be refused was made. I don't know, and neither do you really.

I know it's very common for gamers to consider every decision they don't like to be made by scheming individuals out to get them personally, but it's dumb to think any of this is done maliciously, and the character assassination attempts are just plain low to be honest. Decisions like this are made on consensus, but it's not infallible if the information is incomplete or inaccurate, the scope of repercussions are not understood, or necessity forced it.
Is it your opinion that this is Shibuya Productions/Ysnet's decision that was poorly informed by information from Deep Silver or a Deep Silver decision that has been thrust upon Ysnet?
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,915
CT
Really the tragedy of this is it'll make more people hesitant to support kickstarter games despite so many being excellent.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
Is it your opinion that this is Shibuya Productions/Ysnet's decision that was poorly informed by information from Deep Silver or a Deep Silver decision that has been thrust upon Ysnet?

I'm suspecting given the whole THQN umbrella's cozy relationship with Epic that it's closer to the latter; either that or a desperate last-ditch funding effort
 

Deleted member 3196

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,280
So they're not offering refunds? We'll see about that.

All of those are literally under five pages like I said though lol.

Like I said there, this is pretty justifed response to the situation, no judgement here so please dont take it as such. Just commenting on Zero's point that this is the most traffic the game has had since announcement was all.
A lot of people probably don't have anything to say so long as nothing is going terribly wrong. Going EGS exclusive is when something terribly wrong happened.
 
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