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Spaghetti

Member
Dec 2, 2017
2,740
Is there a comprehensive list of things that are still not fixed on PC? I intended to play through that version shortly after it released but was so frustrated with it that I stopped playing before I even finished the first game.

The one thing that I really couldn't stand was that move training progress never seemed to be saved properly.
I mean there are bug report threads around that SEGA were using to help with the patches, but I don't personally know of a list of issues remaining.

I think training was fixed, though something might be different with how it updates... or maybe not? It's been a while and I don't really remember.
 

Floex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,794
What were they thinking given this a November release? Bail now, waiting until Feb at the earliest.
 

Bhonar

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,066
No. You're the one doing moving the goalpost. Iwao started off saying that it did well on the Dreamcast and Spaghetti is reiterating his point with added data.
Are you reading anything being written or are you just trying to bait an argument?
I'm not moving any goalposts, because that was literally my first post in this entire thread

and I do not agree with what Iwao posted in the first place, that it's "pretty good". so that's not moving goalposts, that's disagreeing to begin with

only thing that matters in business is was it profitable after factoring in all costs to develop and market, etc

why do you care about attach rates instead of profitability?
 

Le Dude

Member
May 16, 2018
4,709
USA
I expected any delay to be way longer, this basically suggests it's in the final stages, which is great. If they were gonna delay it again they wouldn't be so precise with the date.

Hopefully those extra few months of polish make it fantastic.

I mean, they sent a precise date for release a year in advance in the first place, which was silly. I don't think delaying to a precise date instead of a general period means much of anything.
 

Spikey

Banned
Jan 28, 2018
141
if anything, you are setting false goalposts to begin with

why are you talking about attach rates and doomed hardware?? why not just talk about profitability for the developer/publisher, that's the only thing that matters

answer this -- why did it not get a sequel for 15+ years if you think it did so great business wise??
Haha, yeah. You got him.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,851
For the most expensive game ever at the time? Yeah no, huge flop.
I don't think we ever began talking about what is considered a flop here. I argued that 1 million units sold for Shenmue III could be a realistic goal and not a bad effort for a AA game of Shenmue's nature in 2019. I never said that it was going to be a massively popular, just that it could match the original game - which sold 1/10 of its install base and could have gone on to sell more if the Dreamcast had not had the rug pulled from under it. 1m units sold, in any context means that 1m people bought it, so that means it's pretty popular. And in the context of it being a AA game with fraction of the budget of the original games, 1m units between PS4 and PC could go a long way to turning a profit. However, we are yet to know the budget and how much it needs to break even and we probably never will.

if anything, you are setting false goalposts to begin with

why are you talking about attach rates and doomed hardware?? why not just talk about profitability for the developer/publisher, that's the only thing that matters

answer this -- why did it not get a sequel for 15+ years if you think it did so great business wise??
Holy crap, look at the context of my original comment and look who it was that took it to mean something else entirely. Profitability based on the reduced budget compared to the original games / AAA games of today, and sales between 2 platforms is the point I was trying to make. If it can sell 1m copies that could mean it can break even and become profitable for those involved. That is still only my personal speculation.

Haha, yeah. You got him.
This is so off-topic compared to the point i tried to make that I don't think he "got him" at all. Everyone seemed to get away from the point that 1m units sold for Shenmue III in 2019 onwards, is not the same in terms of profitability as 1m sold for Shenmue was between 1999-2001 for various reasons. I expect it to break 1m and that could be enough for it not to be considered a failure, but we don't have the details to really know.
 
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Spaghetti

Member
Dec 2, 2017
2,740
Wasn't the budget also use on the sega saturn game and shenmue 2

Spaghetti right?
Yeah. Total spend on the Shenmue project was apparently $47 million, marketing included. It's still a lot because that's 1990s money, but it paid for years of pre-production and prototyping, the unreleased Saturn version, both Dreamcast games, and their marketing.

But it was a blank cheque projects, so y'know. Any dev would bite your hand off for that opportunity.

I'm not moving any goalposts, because that was literally my first post in this entire thread

and I do not agree with what Iwao posted in the first place, that it's "pretty good". so that's not moving goalposts, that's disagreeing to begin with

only thing that matters in business is was it profitable after factoring in all costs to develop and market, etc

why do you care about attach rates instead of profitability?
Why do you keep trying to steer Iwao's comments away from what he actually said? If you're looking to start a fight, go elsewhere. It's really transparent.
 

Bioshocker

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,205
Sweden
That 2017 date is practically a freebie at this point. You have to pin a time frame for delivery when you set up a Kickstarter.

I have no idea if they'd have released the game for December 2017 if they'd barely reached the original $2 million goal, but it became unrealistic to hold them to it after raising over triple that amount. I might even stretch that to the second delay considering Deep Silver got involved with more development funding.

But the game is "complete" as of March or earlier according to Yu Suzuki. It's just about going the distance on "tuning, debugging, and upgrading", as he said.

I think they should delay it further to avoid the worst month of the year. More time for tuning and debugging.
 

asd202

Enlightened
Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,657
This date makes me think that they just want to release the game this year. Early 2020 would have probably be better date for the game sales wise.
 

mudai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,344
Not surprised to see the delay. The gameplay trailer from a couple of weeks ago didn't feature the August release date anymore. But November? Yeah, good luck. Might be better to delay push it to an early 2020 release. January or February perhaps.
 

ianpm31

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,553
Darksiders 3 released on Nov 27th last year and even that game turned a profit. Don't understand this notion that if you are not a AAA title in the fall equals bad sales. The game will be fine.
 

Spaghetti

Member
Dec 2, 2017
2,740
I think they should delay it further to avoid the worst month of the year. More time for tuning and debugging.
But what if Q1 ends up packed? And Q2 is new console reveal hype? What if the game is actually done when it's supposed to be done for the November release?

You know what I mean? You can't sit on it forever.
 

Virtua Sanus

Member
Nov 24, 2017
6,492
I feel like the previous date was the best timing it could have. I imagine a lot of the people buying this are not going to be traditional modern gamers in any event, but I still worry either way.

It is also pretty bad timing for me personally, but I will make time.
 

Suede

Gotham's Finest
Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,623
Scotland
Not shocked at all, but still sad. Only 2 months away and they have barely shown any gameplay. It probably will slip into 2020 too.
 

aspiring

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,545
I wake up to such bad news.... oh well take the time you need. I just want the best Shenmue I can have.

Only thing that worries me is the date. I worry being in November it will get overshadowed and forgotten. Hopefully it's ok and I'm just being silly!
 

Lindsay

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,143
laaaaaaaaaaaame

The one, no, the ONLY """""2019""""" game I'd been looking forward to. An now its still further an further away -.-
 

Shadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,210
For the most expensive game ever at the time? Yeah no, huge flop.

Yes a huge flop. However popularity and profitability are two different things. Shenmue 3 selling anywhere close to 1 and 2 would be a huge success. Heck even selling as much as the remaster would be decent.

if anything, you are setting false goalposts to begin with

why are you talking about attach rates and doomed hardware?? why not just talk about profitability for the developer/publisher, that's the only thing that matters

answer this -- why did it not get a sequel for 15+ years if you think it did so great business wise??

A game can only sell so much on doomed hardware. A game selling badly because it is on a console with low install base is nothing new. Tons of Wii U games have sold way more when they moved to the Switch. Heck almost every Dreamcast game sold way more when they were ported to a more successful platform like the PS2.

Also if you read Iwaos original post , they just mentioned that Shenmue 3 could be as popular as it was on Dreamcast not as profitable. Shenmue 3's budget is nearly 1/10th that of the Old games AND also partially funded by kickstarter. Selling 1 million copies ( Like on the Dreamcast ) would be extremely successful for a game like this.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,946
Nearly 18 years since finishing Shenmue II, I can wait a couple more months.

Yu has high standards as a producer so taking some extra time for bug fixing is expected.
 

Djihen

Banned
Jun 1, 2019
46
"Sent to die" is such a hyperbolic statement I think. Especially when we don't know what Deep Silver's marketing strategy is for the game

It's hard enough to compete with Sony and EA marketing push. You don't send a game like Shenmue 3 against a big Star Wars AAA and Death Stranding, which is shaping up to be one of the GOAT. That's pure suicide. We already know their marketing strategy : it's thinking they can compete with those two. That's one of the stupidest strategy they could come with. January 2020 would have been way smarter.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,429
It's hard enough to compete with Sony and EA marketing push. You don't send a game like Shenmue 3 against a big Star Wars AAA and Death Stranding, which is shaping up to be one of the GOAT. That's pure suicide. We already know their marketing strategy : it's thinking they can compete with those two. That's one of the stupidest strategy they could come with. January 2020 would have been way smarter.



January 2020 might be FFVII. And considering that DS release date was announced barely a week ago, it's likely they didnt knew.

On top of that... Shenmue III isnt aiming for the same audience as these two games.
 

Spaghetti

Member
Dec 2, 2017
2,740
At the end of the day... what do you do?


August 27th - game isn't finished. Not by huge magnitudes, but the devs wanted roughly another three months to sew it up.

November 19th - currently not as crowded a November as there has been before, but big titles still hitting.

Q1 2020 - could be packed out by the big titles that miss 2019. We'll know more about this next week probably.

Q2 2020 - new console hype could be setting in, and at this point Deep Silver have been sat on the game for an additional 6ish months beyond the November date. It's really, really unlikely they'll be paying for the studio's burn rate this whole time, and especially if work truly does wrap up when it should for the November release plan.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,364
Take your time and make it as good as possible. I'm fine waiting a few more months, I've already been waiting years.
 

Djihen

Banned
Jun 1, 2019
46
At the end of the day... what do you do?

August 27th - game isn't finished. Not by huge magnitudes, but the devs wanted roughly another three months to sew it up.

November 19th - currently not as crowded a November as there has been before, but big titles still hitting.

Q1 2020 - could be packed out by the big titles that miss 2019. We'll know more about this next week probably.

Q2 2020 - new console hype could be setting in, and at this point Deep Silver have been sat on the game for an additional 6ish months beyond the November date. It's really, really unlikely they'll be paying for the studio's burn rate this whole time, and especially if work truly does wrap up when it should for the November release plan.

Whatever you decide, don't pick November. Bad decision, period. Especially after the last Death Stranding trailer that cemented its status as a big title worth delaying TLOU2 (allegedly). You can't compete with Death Stranding and Jedi Fallen Order. Those two will eat anything on their path. It's just sending the game to die.

On top of that... Shenmue III isnt aiming for the same audience as these two games.

You don't know that. Shenmue 3 is a full-priced game, it's competing with every games priced the same.
 

Spaghetti

Member
Dec 2, 2017
2,740
Whatever you decide, don't pick November. Bad decision, period. Especially after the last Death Stranding trailer that cemented its status as a big title worth delaying TLOU2 (allegedly). You can't compete with Death Stranding and Jedi Fallen Order. Those two will eat anything on their path. It's just sending the game to die.
See the Q1 2020 problem.

It's a rock and a hard place. Squatting on the game waiting for the right time isn't an option either.
 

MinusTydus

The Fallen
Jul 28, 2018
8,222
See the Q1 2020 problem.

It's a rock and a hard place. Squatting on the game waiting for the right time isn't an option either.
Why isn't it an option? They already have the Kickstarter money, it's not like anyone can get a refund.

They don't care about bad PR. They could literally send an e-mail out five minutes from now saying, "The new date is December 31, 2022" and the only thing anyone could do is complain on the internet about it. They can continue delaying as many times as they wish.
 

Elfforkusu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,098
I expected one more delay, and here we are.

I think they'll hit this one. AND I CAN'T WAIT BABY

(It might make sense to launch in December, idk. Feels like Nov is where mid-budget games get sent to die)
 

kinjx11

Banned
Jan 24, 2019
299
yeah sure release it the same month Death stranding and many other shooter games are out
 

Spaghetti

Member
Dec 2, 2017
2,740
Why isn't it an option? They already have the Kickstarter money, it's not like anyone can get a refund.

They don't care about bad PR. They could literally send an e-mail out five minutes from now saying, "The new date is December 31, 2022" and the only thing anyone could do is complain on the internet about it. They can continue delaying as many times as they wish.
I'm not sure I follow. The Kickstarter money isn't an infinitely replenishing source of cash, what's left is probably the amount earmarked for rewards fulfillment.

Deep Silver have probably been contributing to, or entirely paying for the studio's burn rate for a while now. If the game is genuinely ready to launch come November, would they really pay for the team to idle for months on end waiting for a spot to open up in 2020?
 

jobrro

The Fallen
Nov 19, 2017
1,628
Backer of the game and this sort of makes me relieved because now I can delay playing the HD remake of the first two a bit more. Currently playing through the Yakuza games (just finished 4, so still have 5, 0 and 6 left) and didn't want to play Shenmue right after those.
 

tofaro28

Member
Dec 17, 2018
114
Welp, if this is really necessary... When the trailer was released, it looked cool, but it sounded a bit like an indie game.
If lighting, textures are improved, will be looks more like an AAA, or something close...
 

ParsnipForest

Member
Oct 27, 2017
571
Australia
Let it cook! I'd rather the game release in a competitive month like November in a polished state, rather than release in August in an unfinished state. Q1 2020 will probably be packed as well so no point holding out for 2020. People's time is the real barrier -- however, if Fallen Order is a linear "Uncharted-like" experience, chances are most people will be done with it in a few days, and ready to trade it in for that meatier, Shenmue III experience ;) Death Stranding is the real behemoth of the month but meh, if Shenmue III is a quality game, people will make the time, or they'll play it a bit later. No biggie.

Is there a comprehensive list of things that are still not fixed on PC? I intended to play through that version shortly after it released but was so frustrated with it that I stopped playing before I even finished the first game.

The one thing that I really couldn't stand was that move training progress never seemed to be saved properly.
I can only speak to the PS4 version, but I trained up several moves (Crawl Cyclone being the main one, for the Chai arcade fight) and it most definitely saved that progress, updated the move to the new animation etc. On PC you have the benefit of the sound restoration mod, as well as high-res textures mods. I plan on playing on PC when I have a machine capable of running it with ReShade AO.
 

Djihen

Banned
Jun 1, 2019
46
It is being sent to die essentially with all the big heavy hitters not announced i have a feeling November is gonna be packed

I think the situation is even worse. Those big heavy hitters aren't really your common heavy hitters, they're even bigger than that.

Sony allegedly delayed TLOU2 to give room for Death Stranding. Death Stranding seems to be the game everyone will talk about for years. I was quite cold on it before the last trailer, now it's clear as day. Sony is going to give it a huge marketing push, probably in the same vein they did for Spiderman and God of War. It's going to be everywhere.

Jedi Fallen Order is a Star Wars game people have been asking for a decade and it's made by Respawn studio, probably the best studio there is for this kind of game. It won't be "The Force Unleashed". It's going to be big and EA will use their marketing machines to push it.

I already thought Shenmue III would bomb since everything revealed about it was hilariously bad, but now, it's clear it will be even worse.

See the Q1 2020 problem.

Q1 2020 might be bad, it's just conjecture for now, but there's still a chance for the game to catch a small momentum. November 2019 is straight suicide and it's not a conjecture, it's just a fact. You don't send your 60$ B-tier game against Death Stranding and Jedi Fallen Order.
 

Tatsu91

Banned
Apr 7, 2019
3,147
I think the situation is even worse. Those big heavy hitters aren't really your common heavy hitters, they're even bigger than that.

Sony allegedly delayed TLOU2 to give room for Death Stranding. Death Stranding seems to be the game everyone will talk about for years. I was quite cold on it before the last trailer, now it's clear as day. Sony is going to give it a huge marketing push, probably in the same vein they did for Spiderman and God of War. It's going to be everywhere.

Jedi Fallen Order is a Star Wars game people have been asking for a decade and it's made by Respawn studio, probably the best studio there is for this kind of game. It won't be "The Force Unleashed". It's going to be big and EA will use their marketing machines to push it.

I already thought Shenmue III would bomb since everything revealed about it was hilariously bad, but now, it's clear it will be even worse.



Q1 2020 might be bad, it's just conjecture for now, but there's still a chance for the game to catch a small momentum. November 2019 is straight suicide and it's not a conjecture, it's just a fact. You don't send your 60$ B-tier game against Death Stranding and Jedi Fallen Order.

Their is a also chance it will face many of the the final quarter Nintendo big sellers. honestly the only hope is for them to charge a B tier price otherwise it will bomb harder than they expected.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,851
It's a tricky situation. Like Spaghetti said, if they delay it to January 2020 what if a couple of big games are lined up for then? They delay it... again? That would be an even worse look for the game the more the push back goes on so they're just going to have to bite the bullet and ship a game they're proud of with a marketing strategy that they planned before Death Stranding cast its shadow. I'm trying to think of examples of any smaller games that launched in busy November's past that ended up performing just fine. I'm sure there has been, but I would have to spend time researching that.

I've seen those and I had a good laugh. That's my 2019 opinion.
I mean graphically the game doesn't really that worse than say, Yakuza 0 which I've said before. I don't think the battle system is looking any worse either. There are wacky/janky/laughable aspects to that game. I don't think Shenmue III will have a problem being a budget affair in 2019 considering what Yakuza 0 looked like in 2017 when it released in to west to acclaim beloved by fans. I mean it received some fairly positive hands-off previews a couple of months ago and we'll be hearing about the latest around E3.
 
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