Shenmue 3: Survey Resend Information for PS4 Region Changes, Refund Requests, & Steam Key Uncertainty [Sept 20 to Oct 3]

GhostTrick · Sep 20, 2019

JaseC said:
The Steamworks documentation explicitly states that keys can be given to supporters of crowdfunding campaigns provided the Steamworks Distribution Agreement has been signed by a relevant party. The only greyish area is beta (i.e. pre-release access) keys.

Edit: Not to mention Phoenix Point dev Snapshot, another crowdfunded game that was snapped up by Epic, has confirmed in no uncertain terms that Steam/GOG keys will be provided after a year. Simply put: There are no "negotiations" as there's nothing to negotiate. Naturally, that does raise the question of "Then why is YsNet claiming otherwise and casting doubt on the possibility of Steam keys?", and the answer to that lies in the chief reason why Epic snaps up popular crowdfunded games: to buy backers. The games themselves are just the cherry on top; what Epic is really interested in is quickly and easily securing more users.

Exactly. I don't see what's to negotiate here. Sure, getting Steam keys isn't an automatic process anymore due to abuse. But to talk about negotiation ? They're no small indie dev. They're a AA publisher with tons of games on Steam. That DS would need to negotiate steam keys is a laughable idea.

Resilient · Sep 20, 2019

Chairmanchuck said:
Since the other thread was closed.

What a fucking mess this whole project has been.

Not really, just the PC side of things with EGS.

Game is still coming out.

GhostTrick · Sep 20, 2019

Resilient said:
Not really, just the PC side of things with EGS.

Game is still coming out.

The entire communication around the game has been clumsy at best.

Chairmanchuck (另一个我) · Sep 20, 2019

Resilient said:
Not really, just the PC side of things with EGS.

Game is still coming out.

Its not just EGS situation. They also promised that the physical PC edition has all data on it. Now its just a EGS.exe on a DVD.

Refund only has a 2 week window.

Refunds took 3 months.

Thats already a mess from the last few months.

audio_delay · Sep 20, 2019

Chairmanchuck said:
Its not just EGS situation. They also promised that the physical PC edition has all data on it. Now its just a EGS.exe on a DVD.

Refund only has a 2 week window.

Refunds took 3 months.

Thats already a mess from the last few months.

This. I just requested a refund. Especially with people going about plastic waste and stuff, pressing a launcher on a disc is tarded. Either put the whole game on a disc or no disc at all.

Kida · Sep 20, 2019

GhostTrick said:
Exactly. I don't see what's to negotiate here. Sure, getting Steam keys isn't an automatic process anymore due to abuse. But to talk about negotiation ? They're no small indie dev. They're a AA publisher with tons of games on Steam. That DS would need to negotiate steam keys is a laughable idea.

And when the game launches on Steam in over a year Valve's policies might be different, especially if the competition between Steam and EGS remains.

If you want the game on Steam then just refund.

GhostTrick · Sep 20, 2019

Kida said:
And when the game launches on Steam in over a year Valve's policies might be different, especially if the competition between Steam and EGS remains.

If you want the game on Steam then just refund.

I mean yeah, in over a year, Steam could stop existing too. In fact, in over a year, the entire world could.
But it's funny that they seem to be the only publisher who needs to "negotiate" as in "it's not guaranteed".

GrrImAFridge · Sep 20, 2019

Relaxed Muscle said:
Theory:
I wonder if the exclusive arrangement includes the inability to provide Steam keys for every EGS copy so the solution for it is YsNet/Deep Silver to try to convince Valve to automatically add the games on people's library and thus circumventing the NDA with Epic? That would check and explain the need to "negotiate with Valve"

I don't think so, judging from Phoenix Point, plus attempting to circumvent the terms of the agreement would put the possibility of future exclusivity deals at risk. Even assuming Epic cottoned on and were on board, the easiest option for all involved would be just allow Steam keys.

FaceHugger · Sep 20, 2019

What is this FanGamer site? Never heard of it before. Why are they sending me there instead of to KickStarter?

BhetjaXIV · Sep 20, 2019

FaceHugger said:
What is this FanGamer site? Never heard of it before. Why are they sending me there instead of to KickStarter?

It's been around since the start of the kickstarter. It's the platform they use for the surveys.

Deleted member 2254 · Sep 20, 2019

"As negotiations with Valve are ongoing, we are not able to make a firm commitment at this point concerning the availability of the Steam keys."

Solid attempt to try and fool people who know nothing about Steam, but that's just a ridiculous thing to come out with. Either offer this option only when they're sure they can/want to commit to it, or don't offer it at all.

Kida · Sep 20, 2019

GhostTrick said:
I mean yeah, in over a year, Steam could stop existing too. In fact, in over a year, the entire world could.
But it's funny that they seem to be the only publisher who needs to "negotiate" as in "it's not guaranteed".

They likely want confirmation from Valve that in all circumstances that they will be able to generate the keys. Valve's key policy already changed this year. It's not impossible that if Valve were to act more aggressively towards those that go EGS exclusive that they may change their key policy again.

I doubt easing the concerns of publishers that have signed exclusive deals with Epic is top of Valve's agenda.

GhostTrick · Sep 20, 2019

Kida said:
They likely want confirmation from Valve that in all circumstances that they will be able to generate the keys. Valve's key policy already changed this year. It's not impossible that if Valve were to act more aggressively towards those that go EGS exclusive that they may change their key policy again.

I doubt easing the concerns of publishers that have signed exclusive deals with Epic is top of Valve's agenda.

How did it change this year ?

Deleted member 29237 · Sep 20, 2019

Was going to go ahead with it until they said there was no guarantee of a steam key. Fuck it, refunded.

Kida · Sep 20, 2019

GhostTrick said:
How did it change this year ?

A small change to prevent abuse.

Again I'm not saying that Steam will, or is even likely to refuse to give keys. But with all the drama and business interests involved with going exclusive there is no way that YSnet can guarantee what the situation will be in a year unless Valve tells them otherwise.

They were dumb to say they would give steam keys later to backers in the first place. But the idea that they are intentionally misleading people to not refund makes zero sense when Epic is footing the bill.

GhostTrick · Sep 20, 2019

Kida said:
A small change to prevent abuse.

Again I'm not saying that Steam will, or is even likely to refuse to give keys. But with all the drama and business interests involved with going exclusive there is no way that YSnet can guarantee what the situation will be in a year unless Valve tells them otherwise.

They were dumb to say they would give steam keys later to backers in the first place. But the idea that they are intentionally misleading people to not refund makes zero sense when Epic is footing the bill.

When ? Where ? Last I remember, there was indeed a change in 2017.

If everyone can guarantee Steam keys except for YsNet/Deep Silver, it's indeed worrying.
How is that also making zero sense ? Epic is footing the bill but they may not want to pay too much ? Or they might prevent to foot the bill to push for EGS keys ?

Kyle Cross · Sep 20, 2019

Went to my survey page and did the refund process. I am so glad this is over with for me.

What's bizarre is there's a "Partial Refund" option along with a full refund. What is this, a "I don't want the game anymore, but still want to support some?"

Kida · Sep 20, 2019

GhostTrick said:
When ? Where ? Last I remember, there was indeed a change in 2017.

If everyone can guarantee Steam keys except for YsNet/Deep Silver, it's indeed worrying.
How is that also making zero sense ? Epic is footing the bill but they may not want to pay too much ? Or they might prevent to foot the bill to push for EGS keys ?

Whenever the change was it shows that their policy does change. I find it incredibly unlikely it will change in the future but unless YSnet have assurances then they should be open that there is a possibility of not recieving a key.

Anybody who wants the game on Steam should refund.

dallow_bg · Sep 20, 2019

So it didn't really matter which version I had originally? Alright.

GhostTrick · Sep 20, 2019

Kida said:
Whenever the change was it shows that their policy does change. I find it incredibly unlikely it will change in the future but unless YSnet have assurances then they should be open that there is a possibility of not recieving a key.

Anybody who wants the game on Steam should refund.

The thing is, they're not talking about a potential policy change but negotiation. As if, they're asking already and are being told "we need to discuss it".

Kida · Sep 20, 2019

GhostTrick said:
The thing is, they're not talking about a potential policy change but negotiation. As if, they're asking already and are being told "we need to discuss it".

I won't disagree that the wording is stupid and the whole EGS situation has been woefully mismanaged. I have refunded my PC version and just kept my PS4 version.

I just don't see this as a conspiracy.

GhostTrick · Sep 20, 2019

Kida said:
I won't disagree that the wording is stupid and the whole EGS situation has been woefully mismanaged. I have refunded my PC version and just kept my PS4 version.

I just don't see this as a conspiracy.

What conspiracy ? Can we please stop throwing that word around ? It seems like some people just call conspiracy "disagreement". Facts doesn't line up with their statement. Where's the conspiracy ?

YuSuzzune · Sep 20, 2019

What a shitshow. They promised Steam keys months ago and now it's not even sure you'll get one?

Kida · Sep 20, 2019

GhostTrick said:
What conspiracy ? Can we please stop throwing that word around ? It seems like some people just call conspiracy "disagreement". Facts doesn't line up with their statement. Where's the conspiracy ?

The conspiracy that they are lying about not being able to guarantee Steam keys to somehow discourage people from refunding.

Arkanius · Sep 20, 2019

Refund and goodbye.
Worst disappointment of this decade.

GhostTrick · Sep 20, 2019

Kida said:
The conspiracy that they are lying about not being able to guarantee Steam keys to somehow discourage people from refunding.

I mean, this narrative doesn't make sense. Saying they wouldn't be able to guarantee Steam keys means people will refund. But the fact that they may not want to provide Steam keys is possible and that they're claiming beforehand that it's not guaranteed.

wsbceo · Sep 20, 2019

So I get an Epic key now and potentially a Steam key later? Not a bad compromise. I'd have rather have the Steam key now like we discussed but whatever.

Epic game store is the reason Steam just redesigned their library after letting it rot for years and years. I'm thrilled with Epic being in the game.

YuSuzzune · Sep 20, 2019

Arkanius said:
Refund and goodbye.
Worst disappointment of this decade.

Yup, exactly what I did. Probably in one year when the game will release on Steam will have all dlcs (well, not sure how good those are considering the season pass seems to be very cheap) and will cost half the price anyway, Shenmue 3 is sadly not a game that will sell million of copies, so I doubt it will be full price again...at this point I'll purchase it on Steam and that's it.

ListeningGarden · Sep 20, 2019

wsbceo said:
Epic game store is the reason Steam just redesigned their library after letting it rot for years and years. I'm thrilled with Epic being in the game.

Imagine actually thinking this.

GhostTrick · Sep 20, 2019

wsbceo said:
So I get an Epic key now and potentially a Steam key later? Not a bad compromise. I'd have rather have the Steam key now like we discussed but whatever.

Epic game store is the reason Steam just redesigned their library after letting it rot for years and years. I'm thrilled with Epic being in the game.

Sure Jan:

https://www.pcgamesn.com/steam/steam-ui-redesign

January 10th 2018. Nearly 12 months before EGS was announced.

https://twitter.com/aldenkroll/status/949388183208251392?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Deleted member 5596 · Sep 20, 2019

JaseC said:
I don't think so, judging from Phoenix Point, plus attempting to circumvent the terms of the agreement would put the possibility of future exclusivity deals at risk. Even assuming Epic cottoned on and were on board, the easiest option for all involved would be just allow Steam keys.

It could be these agreements are created on a deal basis and Phoenix Point had different conditions or that it changed since PP. Totally speculation territory , but I doubt YsNet would muddled the waters even further with a negotiation that doesn't exist where Valve could just come forward and say it.

I'm in the opinion there's something more into this.

basic_text · Sep 20, 2019

Just submitted my refund request. It'll go towards my copy of AI.

Arsene no Kiseki · Sep 20, 2019

wsbceo said:
So I get an Epic key now and potentially a Steam key later? Not a bad compromise. I'd have rather have the Steam key now like we discussed but whatever.

Epic game store is the reason Steam just redesigned their library after letting it rot for years and years. I'm thrilled with Epic being in the game.

They've been working on the library overhaul since 2016. If you seriously thought Valve threw together a library overhaul in less than a year you might want to read up on Valve Time

wsbceo · Sep 20, 2019

GhostTrick said:
Sure Jan:

https://www.pcgamesn.com/steam/steam-ui-redesign
January 10th 2018. Nearly 12 months before EGS was announced.

https://twitter.com/aldenkroll/status/949388183208251392?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Ok. So valve took nearly two years for a simple update.

I've been on Steam for a decade. Welcome, Epic! We need more competition.

Lothars · Sep 20, 2019

Resilient said:
Not really, just the PC side of things with EGS.

Game is still coming out.

Yeah it's been a mess and really shows a level of incompetentence that boggles my mind. It also tells me that ys net and deep silver don't care.

wsbceo said:
So I get an Epic key now and potentially a Steam key later? Not a bad compromise. I'd have rather have the Steam key now like we discussed but whatever.

Epic game store is the reason Steam just redesigned their library after letting it rot for years and years. I'm thrilled with Epic being in the game.

well considering that steam had the library upgrade in the works for years doesn't mean epic has done anything.

Resilient · Sep 20, 2019

Chairmanchuck said:
Its not just EGS situation. They also promised that the physical PC edition has all data on it. Now its just a EGS.exe on a DVD.

Refund only has a 2 week window.

Refunds took 3 months.

Thats already a mess from the last few months.

It's a mess from the refund side, but it's a pretty tricky thing to get right considering those transactions took place 4 years ago.

If the refunds are coming, regardless of the process, then they're fulfilling what they promised.

I don't see it as a mess. They're being pretty succint and clear through the whole process.

GrrImAFridge · Sep 20, 2019

Relaxed Muscle said:
It could be these agreements are created on a deal basis and Phoenix Point had different conditions or that it changed since PP. Totally speculation territory , but I doubt YsNet would muddled the waters even further with a negotiation that doesn't exist where Valve could just come forward and say it.

I'm in the opinion there's something more into this.

Oh, I don't think YsNet or even Deep Silver are exactly willing participants in this carnival of manufactured uncertainty. Rather, it's Epic trying to save face by doubling down on the narrative of "We want to do the right thing but Valve won't let us" following Sweeney's attempt to shift the blame blowing up in his.

Chairmanchuck (另一个我) · Sep 20, 2019

Resilient said:
It's a mess from the refund side, but it's a pretty tricky thing to get right considering those transactions took place 4 years ago.

If the refunds are coming, regardless of the process, then they're fulfilling what they promised.

I don't see it as a mess. They're being pretty succint and clear through the whole process.

The game has been in the Epic database since April 2019, so at that time they already knew about it, but told days before E3 its still on Steam. Doesnt really sound clear.

Then all of a sudden they announced a season pass at E3, that backers, who backed the game and made it a success in the first place, didnt even know about and also will not get.

The whole communication of YSnet is a big mess.

Arsene no Kiseki · Sep 20, 2019

wsbceo said:
Ok. So valve took nearly two years for a simple update.

I've been on Steam for a decade. Welcome, Epic! We need more competition.

Yes because the store thats been in development for over 3 years and has yet to have a shopping cart will surely push valve to ~~completely overhaul~~ simply update their platform even faster.

YuSuzzune · Sep 20, 2019

Chairmanchuck said:
The game has been in the Epic database since April 2019, so at that time they already knew about it, but told days before E3 its still on Steam. Doesnt really sound clear.

Then all of a sudden they announced a season pass at E3, that backers, who backed the game and made it a success in the first place, didnt even know about and also will not get.

The whole communication of YSnet is a big mess.

Not only the season pass, even pre-order dlcs...backers will only get the very base game and nothing else.

Chairmanchuck (另一个我) · Sep 20, 2019

YuSuzzune said:
Not only the season pass, even pre-order dlcs...backers will only get the very base game and nothing else.

You get your Kickstarter exclusive stuff though.

AllMight1 · Sep 20, 2019

A steam key a year from release, honestly, for all the good reasons its just better to get the refund, especially if you were one of the people that pledged $250, $500 dollars.

AshenOne · Sep 20, 2019

wsbceo said:
Ok. So valve took nearly two years for a simple update.

I've been on Steam for a decade. Welcome, Epic! We need more competition.

Are you serious? How is epic giving 'competition' to steam? First you give a bad example of competition with the steam UI update bit and how it came out only due to epic's 'competitiveness' and now you say this? It doesn't matter if you've been on steam for decades even.. and btw i've also been on steam for 10 years to be exact, what Epic has been doing for the past 12-6 months is not competition. Its them trying to monopolize PC gaming by forcing the PC users to buy only from their store in the first 12 months of a game's launch and they keep lying how what they're doing is only for the betterment of PC gaming and the developers. They only care for their own pockets anything else is a freaking drama in trying to lure developers to their side. In my eyes, a guy like Tim Sweeny is only 2nd to Randy Pitchford in terms of being a liar in the games industry.

YuSuzzune · Sep 20, 2019

Chairmanchuck said:
You get your Kickstarter exclusive stuff though.

Yeah but considering some of those pre-order dlcs where in the Kickstarter's goal spreadsheet...it's not good giving them only to people who pre-order the game outside Kickstarter.

Deleted member 45414 · Sep 20, 2019

I changed my digital copy to an EU PS4 version and will be giving it away.

Hucast · Sep 20, 2019

They really fucked up, but at least epic covered them financially. Till next year

S1kkZ · Sep 20, 2019

is there any way to cvhange the shipping adress?

TheUnseenTheUnheard · Sep 20, 2019

Done and done. I remember when this exclusivity was first announced. It's been a crazy ride but I'm glad consumers won in the end.

.exe · Sep 20, 2019

I wonder what Ysnet is demanding if they can't come to terms with Valve, who has shown to be very flexible when it comes to their own guidelines.

Also, let's not take the bait about the library redesign above. Disingenuous claims like that aren't even worth arguing about. Block and move on. They'll eventually walk into a ban with that kind of behavior.

Mauricio_Magus · Sep 20, 2019

What a joke, asked for a refund already.

Shenmue 3: Survey Resend Information for PS4 Region Changes, Refund Requests, & Steam Key Uncertainty [Sept 20 to Oct 3]

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