Not saying they did anything. Just looking for a complete picture of the situation.
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Shenmue 3 Kickstarter will honor refunds and offers Steam keys with a one-year delay [See Staff Post]
- Thread starter Chairmanchuck (另一个我)
- Start date
Not saying they did anything. Just looking for a complete picture of the situation.
Thank you for posting that again but i fail to see what that has to do with my opinion that even a disc packed full of Shemue 3 goodness would still be a coaster in a cheap plastic case.
Just to add to why I think "Shenmue 3 is going to flop now, everyone is getting a refund" is hyperbole, here are some numbers. We, unfortunately, don't have the slacker backer numbers, so these are from the Kickstarter.
$6,333,295 raised
26,238 backers for a digital copy (PC and PS4, so I'll assume everyone was PC for the sake of this) at $29
If every single backer at this tier asks for a refund, that'd be $760,902.
382 backers for $39 digital upgrade tier
$14,898 refund for everyone
4,671 backers for $60 physical PC
$280,260 refund
2,062 backers for $80 in-game DLC tier (assuming everyone is PC and will refund)
$164,960 refund
6,539 backers for $100 trial version tier
$653,900
So far, if EVERY single backer for these tiers (regardless of PC or PS4) requested a refund, they'd be refunding $1,874,920 out of the original $6,333,295. While this is significant, in no way is it even semi-accurate considering this includes PS4 backers and PC backers that don't have an issue with the situation, plus the money that has been contributed from Epic and Deep Silver.
$6,333,295 raised
26,238 backers for a digital copy (PC and PS4, so I'll assume everyone was PC for the sake of this) at $29
If every single backer at this tier asks for a refund, that'd be $760,902.
382 backers for $39 digital upgrade tier
$14,898 refund for everyone
4,671 backers for $60 physical PC
$280,260 refund
2,062 backers for $80 in-game DLC tier (assuming everyone is PC and will refund)
$164,960 refund
6,539 backers for $100 trial version tier
$653,900
So far, if EVERY single backer for these tiers (regardless of PC or PS4) requested a refund, they'd be refunding $1,874,920 out of the original $6,333,295. While this is significant, in no way is it even semi-accurate considering this includes PS4 backers and PC backers that don't have an issue with the situation, plus the money that has been contributed from Epic and Deep Silver.
A person lacking an EGS account who is interested in buying an EGS key, will become a new user regardless or where they buy it.
Look, perhaps a metaphor might help you understand why people are angry and why that anger is quite legitimate and hardly a "bad look"
Imagine a person who decides to buy a house. They're investing a lot of money, but they want a nice home to live in and they've waited a long time for this opportunity. So they search around and they find a house they REALLY like. It's got the features they want, even if it isn't perfect, it's in a nice area that has the conveniences they are looking for, so they take out a mortgage and buy the house. The money fully changes hands, the contracts are signed, the house is theirs. Only problem is that just a couple of weeks before they officially move in, the mortgage company informs them that they're physically moving their new house to another location that isn't as nice as the one the house was originally on. It's lacking in the conveniences the previous area offered, despite the house being the same. They find out it's because this area is desperate for more people to live there so they paid off the bank they got the mortgage from to move the house to their lot instead.
"Why are you so angry? You're still getting the same house, right???" the mortgage lenders argue, seemingly bewildered as if they invested this much money ONLY because of the house itself. So they say "Okay, okay, we get it, we'll either offer you a different home or build a new home in the same spot as before, it might even be a touch nicer and newer, but you're gonna have to wait a year before you can move in,"
Now, no one who's brain is located in their skull would wonder why a person would want a refund on this bait and switch. Because when one invests this much money, it's not just the house, it's the environment the house exists in as well.
"LOL YOU'RE LITERALLY COMPARING GAMES TO HOUSES WHAT A DUMMY" I hear you thinking. First of all, again, it's a metaphor. Secondly, I can provide a gaming example as well. During the 7th gen of consoles, many gamers in the west constantly groaned when an interesting Japanese game was announced for a portable system like the DS or PSP rather than PC or a "proper" console. "You're still getting the game right?" Well, people were pissed anyway because it's not just the game itself, it's the environment gamers play their games on. People didn't want to play on a small screen and hunched over to see what they're doing, they wanted to sit on a couch and play on a nice, large TV screen or PC monitor. They wanted the flexibility to use different controllers (which wasn't possible on portables) or mod games on their PCs. I still, to this day, remember the goddamn fallout when Dragon Quest IX was announced for the Nintendo DS. I still remember people complaining that they'd rather play Kingdom Hearts BBS or Valkyria Chronicles 2 on a console rather than the PSP. And no, it wasn't just "LOL graphix" it was the environment of couch/PC gaming that people prefer. The game isn't the only factor in the decision to buy a game; the environment matters to.
When Shenmue 3 was announced, we were super excited to finally get a sequel, and many others contributed more than they might otherwise (myself included) because we knew a PC version (and in 2015 that meant Steam) was coming. And sure enough, it was announced for Steam, the nice PC platform we feel most comfortable playing our PC games on. And then the proverbial mortgage company moved the house we've fully invested our money into, to a new lot that's frankly a fucking shitshow. Fuck. That. We paid our money already, and telling us we have to wait another year to get it where we want it is fucking bullshit. I don't care just because I can "get the game" ,it's a bait and switch. And it will kill Shenmue along with it. III won't sell enough on its own, and many of us will not fund a Shenmue IV after this so the money they are getting from Epic isn't worth the damage it's done to the franchise. The fact they couldn't piece this together tells me it's about the money and not the fans. Not anymore.
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Official Staff Communication
Shenmue III backers were offered Steam keys in their backer surveys and the fundraiser concluded before the Epic Games Store even existed. There is no reason to argue that backers were not promised a Steam release with part of their pledge. We are not interested in entertaining the conversation to the contrary, so please drop this line of discussion.
Genuine question for a Kickstarter expert (I am not). In these cases, are the refunds managed through the Kickstarter platform? So, will we get, down the line, any info about how many people really refunded the game and how much money did that represent?
It would be really interesting to know, at the end of the day.
It would be really interesting to know, at the end of the day.
Your opinion is, of course, 100% irrelevant. A physical version that allows you to play Shenmue III on any PC with the appropriate reader is, objectively, more valuable than a physical version that just contains EGSinstaller.exe. Upon seeing a $30 price difference between the game and the physical version, a normal person would naturally assume that they are paying for the former, as one of the people responsible for the Shenmue III kickstarter confirmed. Thus, people like the posters replying to Tart Toters would no doubt find it darkly humourous when it turns out that no, it's going to be the latter after all. I hope I have successfully walked you through the thought process of a rational person.
The Phoenix Point dev claims Epic's exclusivity covered the cost of them refunding every single one of their backers. I assume that arrangement stands here. I also imagine only a percentage of PC backers are looped in enough to understand what is going on or request a refund.
The disc could be used to install the game for people with poor Internet.
You're just being purposefully dense at this point, it's ok.
It may still require internet activation. You just don't need to download all the game data.
Internet activation is not a huge deal. Downloading 80GB with a 1MB/s is a huge deal.
The physical PC disc solution is insulting. They would have been better off sticking with a digital code. Now they have acknowledged the issue of no disc but double-down on not delivering game data. It's an aggressive "fuck you". They should not have offered PC physical AT ALL but that is besides the point. They simply could not deliver on their promise.
You come across as someone who just can't believe other people have different preferences, and live in different circumstances as you. It's bewildering.
No one is suggesting this is some new thing. I don't see why it has to be a new thing for people to complain. People were promised a disk with the game data on it. A disk that some of us may want because not everyone has super fast internet, installing from a disk can still be quicker for me with how large new games are. Something which we aren't getting anymore because of the limitations of the Epic Game Store, their store just doesn't support installing from a disk, thus all we get is a shitty epic game store client on a disk instead.
There's a point of a disk with game data on. There's zero point of a disk with some 30mb epic game store client download.
They said they've already created certain rewards and assets and can't refund the cost of those items. Many items at higher tiers were in-game assets.
So to be clear....
Does this mean you get BOTH a steam key and epic key, a la Phoenix Point?
It's not ideal, but between that and refunds, it's better than some of the alternative scenarios.
Does this mean you get BOTH a steam key and epic key, a la Phoenix Point?
It's not ideal, but between that and refunds, it's better than some of the alternative scenarios.
The worst thing out of this whole fiasco is that it completely soured me on the series as a whole despite being a big fan of it, as well as on Yu Suzuki and put me off PC Game Kickstarters for the foreseeable future.
I guess mission accomplished for Timmy T., Deep Silver and Ys.net. Hope the $2mil was worth alienating fans and ruining Kickstarter as a crowdfunding platform for PC indie games.
I guess mission accomplished for Timmy T., Deep Silver and Ys.net. Hope the $2mil was worth alienating fans and ruining Kickstarter as a crowdfunding platform for PC indie games.
Yeap, that's my understanding as well. You get a epic key at launch and a steam key once the exclusivity deal expires. You do have to make sure the correct option is selected in your backer survey.
Where is this $2 million figure coming from, out of interest?
It's been quoted before as what was paid to other similar projects by Epic. I would imagine it was a lot more for Ubisoft fare, Metro and Borderlands.
This. I will spend my time and money on an other game. Full refund.
Overall I'm happy with this. A bit surprised the Character Perspective System didn't make it as that sounded like something Suzuki was very keen on implementing, but I guess it would've taken more time and resources than expected. From the IGN Japan interview it sounds like it may still come in the form of DLC? https://jp.ign.com/shenmue-3/36804/news/iiisteam
So DLC for Shenmue III sounds like it will be content that genuinely was unable to be produced during the initial development time, and not just arbitrarily locked off, which is a good thing 👍
So DLC for Shenmue III sounds like it will be content that genuinely was unable to be produced during the initial development time, and not just arbitrarily locked off, which is a good thing 👍
I must say that i didn't expect comment like this from somebody who is for unionization and better treatment for game industry employees. Especially when Epic is on other side overworking developers.
I still question if I'm going to get my SIM card DLC on Steam, and it I'll have an option to purchase the Kickstarter exclusive jacket cosmetic that they changed to a preorder DLC (I didn't back the threshold for that one but would like it now)
I know a lot of people are really upset about this still all the same, and rightfully so, but this compromise at least has me calmed down on this one. I'll just be selling my EGS copy and treating this like a one year delay on the PC port of the game.
I know a lot of people are really upset about this still all the same, and rightfully so, but this compromise at least has me calmed down on this one. I'll just be selling my EGS copy and treating this like a one year delay on the PC port of the game.
IMO there was another acceptable solution: a stand alone, DRM free release for backers. As we're not getting that, and the physical release is completely worthless, I'll be requesting my refund.
What an awful piece of work and yeah sure Epic is interested in making the industry a better place (for shareholder).
Apparently Kotaku doesn't remember the Fortnite crunch which is perpetual considering it's a 'live service'? I mean it was only a month and a half ago. But the real villain in all this... Gabe eating crackers again. Sony, MS, Nintendo, and mobile are justified in their 30% cut though because... reasons... reasons. Fucking Games Press...
It's too fucking eerie how the outlets are in lock step with this specific narrative no matter how contradictory it is.
Edit: Wait a fucking second... this is from Jason!?! Oh come the fuck on, Jason. You are better than this...
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Imagine being more concerned about bigger devs making bigger cash rather than smaller devs litterally not allowed to release the fruits of their hardwork. Yup, that's what Jason is rooting for right now. Gotta love the "vacation for devs" jab though.
I dont get why they keep pretending as if steam is the only digital store to take the 30% cut. I mean it's been clear that tim sweeney's petty moves are aimed at steam with metro exodus coming to the xbox store recently. But for journos also making this mistake makes them look easily manipulated
But the physical rewards aren't related to the refunds? It's for in-game assets for high tier rewards like name inscriptions on temples, personal in-game capsule toy model, character model faces etc etc I'd imagine. Even so, it's also not uncommon for physical rewards to be sent after the game release so it's unlikely they're all ready now.
That's insanely disappointing coming from Jason, and yeah, this is Epic we are talking about, the same one that abuses the shit out of their own devs.
Physical that isn't physical, won't contain the actual game.
What a huge mess. At least they realized that themselves and are doing refunds.
Really didn't want to see Shenmue 3 subjected to something like this.
Jason is really losing the plot with the whole Epic thing. I'm SURE the second Valve lowers the cut, that will be the second Epic doesn't moneyhat anymore. I'm SURE they won't continue to do this to bring in people to their more lackluster service by continuing to buy exclusives.
Has he just lost his damned mind or something?
Has he just lost his damned mind or something?
I have no idea, but it should be basic common knowledge and common sense that Epic isn't doing what they're doing for any altruistic reasons, and if Valve suddenly gave developers a 90% cut, Epic wouldn't suddenly cease moneyhatting store exclusives. It's cold, ruthless business.
And I honestly don't fault Epic for that, even as they lie through their teeth about the reasons they do what they do. It's always about money.
Same for developers that accept their deals. Money makes the world (and game development) go round and round. Good deals pay employees and fund development.
The ISSUE is the fans and players - especially for a Kickstarter - who have become investors in funding the game and were promised certain content and a certain product who were utterly disregarded. They were not getting what they were promised, and that is a MAJOR issue.
because they don't care about actually doing any critical thinking they just like watching the cock fight happen
whether their readers are caught in the middle or not, or whether it impacts the future of the industry who gives a shit let's just stick snide remarks everywhere
I guess this is about the best solution YsNet can offer given the circumstances, I hope they don't take too much of a hit from all this.
Sweeney said he would stop it if valve changed the cut
i for one believe him!
Wow. Didn't expect that from him. And never in that article does he mention the absolute screw job the backers of the PC physical are getting. There are legitimate reasons to be angry here and he totally missed the point. Unbelievable.
It's absolutely believable considering the garbage job any games media have done with anything regarding the epic games store.
Jason must have somehow missed the multiple signs that the 88-12 split aren't sustainable - either from Valve themselves with the prepaid card-type scenario, or the fact that Epic is hoisting off fees in certain countries to make the split 'feasible'.
edit: Seriously, Jason, put a little more effort into it than this, lmao.