i recall some interview of noelle saying they played it platonically all the way up until that final read on the I Love you, and she said, "go for it, romantic"
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She-Ra and the Princesses of Power |OT| Sword to Reboot!
- Thread starter spookyduzt
- Start date
In season 4, Glimmer screwed up her and Bow's friendship by listening to Shadow Weaver. At the start of season 5, Bow and Adora rescue Glimmer, but Bow remains rightly upset with Glimmer. But over the course of a couple of episodes, Glimmer apologizes to Bow, and the two of them make things right again. For the vast majority of season 5, the status quo has been restored, and Glimmer and Bow have returned to a comfortable level of "best friend" intimacy.
And then in the final episode, Glimmer pushes it one step farther than that, by declaring her love for Bow. IIRC, Noelle Stevenson said in an interview that Glimmer's voice actor read the line in the script, and asked "Romantic or platonic?" (because that would change how she delivers the line), and Noelle confirmed that it was romantic (which was how I heard it).
It's possible that Bow decided to return Glimmer's declaration of romantic love with a declaration of platonic love, but that would be a massive dick move, to respond to Glimmer courageously putting herself out there like that by giving her something vague and nebulous and deflecting. If he doesn't love her in that way, he should be firm about saying that he loves her, but not in that way. One other option could be that Bow is a dense idiot who's oblivious to the emotion behind Glimmer's statement, but Bow's kinda the opposite of a dense idiot who doesn't see emotions.
I think it's quite safe to say that Bow accepted Glimmer's feelings of romantic love, and responded in kind when he said "I love you too."
And then in the final episode, Glimmer pushes it one step farther than that, by declaring her love for Bow. IIRC, Noelle Stevenson said in an interview that Glimmer's voice actor read the line in the script, and asked "Romantic or platonic?" (because that would change how she delivers the line), and Noelle confirmed that it was romantic (which was how I heard it).
It's possible that Bow decided to return Glimmer's declaration of romantic love with a declaration of platonic love, but that would be a massive dick move, to respond to Glimmer courageously putting herself out there like that by giving her something vague and nebulous and deflecting. If he doesn't love her in that way, he should be firm about saying that he loves her, but not in that way. One other option could be that Bow is a dense idiot who's oblivious to the emotion behind Glimmer's statement, but Bow's kinda the opposite of a dense idiot who doesn't see emotions.
I think it's quite safe to say that Bow accepted Glimmer's feelings of romantic love, and responded in kind when he said "I love you too."
It's over. No more seasons. There's a possibility they they might do some sort of movie as a victory lap (and people are hashtagging to try and make that happen) but that's nothing more than a dream at this point. And Noelle Stevenson has said that any lingering plot threads are deliberate, because she wants the show to live on in our hearts and imaginations.
He-Man is not next, or at least not from the same creators. There's a rights wall between He-Man and She-Ra (He-Man is owned by Mattel, while She-Ra is owned by Dreamworks, and formerly Filmation), which the two sides can mostly only cross through specific, deliberate negotiations. Noelle Stevenson didn't mind the split, because she cared more about She-Ra than He-Man anyways, and she has no real desire to create a He-Man cartoon. And Mattel doesn't really care about the new She-Ra, while Mattel has their own plans for He-Man. Mattel currently has an 80's He-Man cartoon continuation in the works from Kevin Smith, as well as their own new He-Man reboot cartoon (which has nothing to do with this new She-Ra). And on top of that, Mattel is trying to get a live action He-Man movie made. They've got no time for this She-Ra universe.
Ah, thank you. I was under the impression that Kevin Smith's rendition in the works was going to be in the same universe as the one Netflix's She-Ra was in. Looks like they are all separate. Also thank you for informing about a new reboot and a new live action project.
I finished the show, and wow what a ride! At the end of S4, I really wasn't sure if a redemption arc for Catra would work, or if she was too far gone to get redeemed, I was really curious to see how S5 would end up handling all of that.
Yeah, I can't help but draw comparisons with Steven Universe, which is arguably my favorite animated show of the past few years, and yeah, the contrast is stark in terms of quality of opening songs, for sure. I love that AJ Michalka's cover of it though, it's pretty great.
I was pretty satisfied with how the first half of S5 turned out, it was riveting and I couldn't help watching episodes after episodes. I'm not sure Catra entirely apologized for every harm she's done (and she has done quite a lot for sure), but also it's difficult not to empathize with her and want her to become better, which she does, finally allowing herself to be the Catra she deserved to be all along. It was beautiful.
And that final kiss, wow, it was so magical and amazing to see that on screen! I can't help but thinking back on the one animation show that shaped most of my childhood/teenage-hood, Sailor Moon, and how powerful it'd have been to see, like, Neptune & Uranus kiss, how validating it would have felt. Like we knew they were romantically together, it was no secret, but to have it fully and entirely displayed the way Catra & Adora have been able to do, would have been amazing. I'm glad She-Ra exists, that kiss scene solely makes the entire show worthwhile of existing and being seen.
And that final kiss, wow, it was so magical and amazing to see that on screen! I can't help but thinking back on the one animation show that shaped most of my childhood/teenage-hood, Sailor Moon, and how powerful it'd have been to see, like, Neptune & Uranus kiss, how validating it would have felt. Like we knew they were romantically together, it was no secret, but to have it fully and entirely displayed the way Catra & Adora have been able to do, would have been amazing. I'm glad She-Ra exists, that kiss scene solely makes the entire show worthwhile of existing and being seen.
Yeah, I can't help but draw comparisons with Steven Universe, which is arguably my favorite animated show of the past few years, and yeah, the contrast is stark in terms of quality of opening songs, for sure. I love that AJ Michalka's cover of it though, it's pretty great.
The best thing about Catra's redemption is that she does it for the 'wrong' reasons, but she comes around to wanting to do the right thing eventually anyway.
So I decided to give the series a try and a few days later I've watched the lot and loved it. I'm old enough to remember the shite toy adverts that were the original he man and she ra and this just blew those away. Amazing.
Same here. On the last season now and wow this show is great.
This shit sucks to see but it needs to be seen.
As much diversity as She Ra champions for the LGBTQ community, you cannot have an all white writing staff champion diversity for other races when said people weren't even given a line to write. That Bow brother shit is beyond disgusting.
As is the Double Trouble comment which is a whole nother can of worms.
As much diversity as She Ra champions for the LGBTQ community, you cannot have an all white writing staff champion diversity for other races when said people weren't even given a line to write. That Bow brother shit is beyond disgusting.
As is the Double Trouble comment which is a whole nother can of worms.
100 fucking percent, too often queer representation is *white representation*. Not just with the characters but the writers, artists, ect.
tbh i kinda feel like double trouble's queerness is such a big part of their characterization that it invokes old 80s/90s tropes of queer coded villains. And a big part of that is queerness feeling a little off and a bit uncomfortable to people. Kind of similar with Entrapta's (at least coded) autism that was kind of justification for her to be considered not trusted and an on the evil side.
I mean both are really fun characters but especially with that comment it feels like they could have come at the characters from a bit of a different approach
I'm binary so please correct me if i'm out of line with this (i'm autistic tho)
probably not the most important thing to talk about there but the rest seems pretty black and white. yikes
I mean both are really fun characters but especially with that comment it feels like they could have come at the characters from a bit of a different approach
I'm binary so please correct me if i'm out of line with this (i'm autistic tho)
probably not the most important thing to talk about there but the rest seems pretty black and white. yikes
I can see how the comment is considered racist but I don't think it was intentional. Black farmers exist.
Hopefully this teaches them to be more considerate with their words next time.
Hopefully this teaches them to be more considerate with their words next time.
probably depends on what your mind assumed that list meant tbh
I'm glad Noelle was quick to apologize. This really comes off to me as her saying something thoughtless off the cuff. She can do better though.
I'm extremely disappointed by their comments. Especially coming from Noelle who's usually wholesome and very vocal about diversity.
I'm glad she apologize quickly on twitter. But I don't know how I feel after that.
I'm glad she apologize quickly on twitter. But I don't know how I feel after that.
I can't speak to the other stuff, but I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt until I saw the actual context for the "in the field".
They really could have said "he's a farmer" or something like that... People are right to be angry imo.
They really could have said "he's a farmer" or something like that... People are right to be angry imo.
is Entrapta actually bad representation of non-neurotypical people? she's not like explicitly autistic but i think they show her with autistic type traits pretty well imo
One Twitter thread I read basically boiled it down to Entrapta not being inherently bad but it's how the show and other characters treat her.
I can kinda see that, although I'm not sure I'm in 100% agreement with it really
Hordak I don't think you can say is "good" representation of anything related to disabled people to me though, he's pretty awful as a person the entire show even if he's somewhat sympathetic in the end so that inherently seems like a poor character to represent disabled people if that's what they were going for
I'm only one autistic person, but I thought Entrapta's autistic representation was fucking aces. That moment where everyone assumes Entrapta is just on one of her technological obsessions and endangering everyone to do it, but she was just single-minded because she wanted to help her friends? Incredible, and I think a good lesson for some NTs out there.
Here's the context for Entrapta and Hordak being good representation. It was a fan sending in an email saying that Entrapta and Hordak were good disability representation to her.
Here's the joke about Bow's brother's being named Sow because he tills a field. I took it to be just a dumb joke about Bow having brothers whose name rhyme with his and having names that match their occupation. So Sow plants crops and tills a field, presumably with a sow.
EDIT: This seems to be the full stream in question. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/722579458
"Sow" isn't a thing, it's an action. It means "to plant".
I'm sure most people have heard the term "You reap what you sow"? That means "You harvest what you plant." Incidentally, "reaping" is when you take one of those big "scythe" things like Death is usually shown to carry, and cut down/harvest your crops (rather than using it to cut down/harvest human souls like the Grim Reaper does).
The tool you're probably thinking of is a hoe.
As another aside, in 1988 Eddie Murphy film "Coming to America", James Earl Jones's character justifies Eddie Murphy's character's trip (misunderstandingly) by saying that he's "Sowing his royal oats" before marriage, aka he's saying that Eddie Murphy's character wants to plant his royal seed before marriage, aka he's saying that Eddie Murphy's character wants to impregnate random women. That's what the dad in this movie sees as proper behavior for a man in his position.
Personally, I don't get how sowing/fields is racist, especially not when someone above said that "farmer" would be acceptable. I'm totally blanking on which part is the racist part. But then again, I'm Canadian, so maybe we just don't have whatever term up here. I know that cotton is a thing that was associated with slavery?
I was thinking of a hoe. Good catch. And yeah, it was the immediate association with "till the field" with slavery. An understandable association, I feel. But I don't think it was intentional.
I'm reminded of that picture of the writers and others involved behind the scenes all being white used as a "gotcha" to their talking about the diversity and inclusion of the show.
Aside from it being established that Bow and his family are named after weapons, the reaction to this joke is kind of dumb but I guess if you're going to refer to a black character doing anything farming related you might want to make it a little more clear that it's his farm and not someone else's under forced/slave labor.
Not to nitpick but "sowing his royal oats" is a version of "sowing your wild oats", is basically a youth going out on their own and having an "adventure" with new exciting experiences or whatever along with yeah, having a lot sexual relationships, people getting pregnant isn't really a part of that.
Aside from it being established that Bow and his family are named after weapons, the reaction to this joke is kind of dumb but I guess if you're going to refer to a black character doing anything farming related you might want to make it a little more clear that it's his farm and not someone else's under forced/slave labor.
Just starting to get into this with my daughter. She is in love with the characters despite it being maybe a bit too old for her (she is only 4 and a half). I really like the art style and the characters so far and find a lot of interactions and conflicts to be very well executed. Really looking forward to seeing where this story goes. My wife has even been taken in by it and is now in the process of tracking down all of Noelle's other works.
Noelle and crew called that thing with Bow's siblings an inside joke. There's nothing inherently funny on the surface about the occupation of a farmer. Same with associating the act of sowing with a farmer. The only reason it would even be a joke that they'd have a lark with, the only reason they would need to laugh at the obvious, is because it is being juxtaposed with the family's blackness, and thus it is inherently drawing upon slavery comparisons. That is the source of the humor. It's not that a farmer sows seeds. It's that a black guy is "working the fields."
There's a reason a shitload of black show fans and black artists are angry. Maybe don't dismiss that.
There's a reason a shitload of black show fans and black artists are angry. Maybe don't dismiss that.
My take on it was that it was meant to be a dad joke. Something akin to Jurassic Park's "doyouthinkhesaurus" joke where you come up with the lamest job-related puns based on them ending with the -oh syllable.
That could've very well been her intent. But considering the fact that there were other side-eye worthy behaviors, like a whole-ass man throwing around the word "dyke," and it's clear it's a space where they weren't checking themselves. If you are going to stand for inclusion and diversity, you need to make that shit actually count. Her apology is good, but you know what would be better? Hire some black people on your fucking shows if you're going to be using us as characters. That would be a start.
I've seen bipoc folks also agreeing they were talking the occupation and playing on the rhyme. Especially since it was in a list of names that were also innocuous (Woah for a surfer bro, or Woe for an emo bro). I don't really think Bow's blackness is especially mentioned or really alluded in these, and it was groan-worthy bad joke (on the same silly level as Bow having abs cut out/exposed on every outfit he has on, even space gear).
Definitely hiring more black writers and artists is a problem that should have been rectified ages ago, but the fact like 3 big topics were severely amplified out of context kinda blows. (and yeah I'm sorta throwing the benefit of the doubt for Noelle taking a show as cheesy and white as Retro She-Ra was into one of the best family-friendly/ LGBTQ-friendly shows)
If there's other stuff I'm missing, or I've seen people say on the lines this sorta "grave misunderstanding" has happened before for similarly grave topics, I'd be happy to go back on my words... But this feels like a sorta awful misunderstanding that she's been apologizing for. :/
I need to watch the whole stream, but speaking for myself the "dyke" part appears very misconstrued. At least in the below clip, the guy only says it as an advertisement for a podcast that the chat moderators have called Desperate Housedykes.
It's also linking a clip of the part about Sow, which is not my place to comment on.
It's also linking a clip of the part about Sow, which is not my place to comment on.
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A lot of whats being complained about is being taken way out of context. The only thing even remotely questionable is the Sow thing, and it still fairly innocent if just slightly tone deaf
Sow's blackness doesn't have to be explicitly, verbally mentioned for the joke to not land, because we can simply see he's black. That isn't how racism usually works.
Now, I actually think the way she's handled apologizing has been exemplary, but nonetheless she's apologizing for an issue of blindness that is a result of not really understanding the implications of the joke in a black context, probably because- given the demographics of her friends and crew- she doesn't hang around black people. Most white people don't, whether or not they're LGBTQA+, because queerness doesn't erase whiteness. She has work to do.
But frankly, I'm *kinda* less upset at her and her crew than I am of non-black people weighing in and dismissing black people's concerns. Like, it literally has nothing to with you.
Please keep in mind that you don't get to decide what is objectionable to other people. These are complex topics/issues and people from affected communities are going to have different reactions and opinions on the matter.
Right. What im saying things like "Her crew used the D-slur!" when that's not what happened. Someone mentioned the name of a podcast that had that word in it. Still stupid, yes. But its not like some "angry gamer moment" BS.
People can feel however they want to feel, they should still have the correct context of the situation though.
This. I've seen some people here and on twitter dismiss concerns vis-a-vis the stream. People can still love the show, it's diversity on screen and all it did for the LGBTQA+ community. But at the same time, they need to understand that the creators and people behind it might have flaws and that people who are concerned by those can be disappointed, frustrated or even sad and they have the right to express these sentiments.
Also this. Even though the show is incredibly diverse on screen, it seems the team isn't.
No that's true, my bad on the first part. I also totally get where fan outcry is sometimes shows a more awful/egregious side to a matter than the intitial situation itself.
Ah man, yea that Bow/Sow clip is White Blind-spots 101. Also don't think Noelle or her crew intentionally leaned into that joke (because it flies in the face of a lot of the show), but its something that would have been so easily avoided if they had any black people within arms length to run that by.
Everyone, even those fighting for representation, need to be aware of their failings and shortcomings. The work is never over.
I wonder what next show is going to capture the zeitgeist of inclusive ideology (in the action/cartoon space, that is).
Everyone, even those fighting for representation, need to be aware of their failings and shortcomings. The work is never over.
Yea i love the cover way more than the original, and SU really did spoil people, lol.
I wonder what next show is going to capture the zeitgeist of inclusive ideology (in the action/cartoon space, that is).
The Owl House has a ton of people flocking to it for the lesbian romance featuring the main character.
(Granted, it's just a one-sided crush right now, but it's pretty clear where things are going)
Is that what the characters sounded like in the original She-ra? The video is pretty funny, but I don't think I can sit down and watch the original She-ra having watched She-ra and the Princesses of Power.
Is it like...actually a-go?? This being Disney, I'd imagine they'd just kick the can down the road and introduce a dude later on instead (or just not commit at all). :/
The creator openly talked about it and official Disney twitter has shown this