To be fair, he's been very busy with DICE stuff. But I still don't expect him to address it.
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Shawn Layden blames publishers and developers for lack of PlayStation crossplay (Up: Wargroove dev Chucklefish responds in thread - "We were told no")
- Thread starter Aokiji
- Start date
I would be surprised if cross-play was the driving factor there.
That's what the CEO implied with this post:
Not that there couldn't have been other issues, but they outright said they prioritized cross-play platforms.
eh, why would he when there are people who cover up for him and justify his lies for free
Embarrassing. This and Sony's terrible customer support are about the only things negative I can say about Sony. I don't really care much about cross play personally but this needs to be fixed because that is where the industry is going. This is most definitely the reason why Wargroove is not on PS4 right now.
The driving factor is finite resources. That they prioritize the bigger potential audience is to be expected, but they didn't go "well, we'll skip PS4 because it doesn't have cross-play".
The dude I replied to made it sound like devs will purposefully and, based on principle, avoid PS4 because it doesn't have cross play, which is what I'm saying will hardly ever, if ever happen. Of course, not opening up your mutliplayer to PC, first and foremost, will result in some devs with limited resources to have to potentially pick and choose between PS4's multiplayer, and the combined forces of Switch, Xbox, and PC, if they don't have the resources to develop for all platforms simultaneously.
I don't see the distinction. Cross-play is something they value, so it IS the driving factor. Finite resources is always an issue, and with those resources they prioritized cross-play. I agree with that user.
The distinction is based on the principle of it. If Sony doesn't support crossplay, but somehow chucklefish ran the numbers, and they figured that they'd have a bigger audience on PS4 (which is not wholly unreasonable a thing to except for some devs), would they still have foregone PS4 because Sony doesn't support cross-play?
But crossplay is undoubtedly the driving factor here. If you read through the thread you would have realized that. It doesn't matter how you spin "finite sources" as you do in your reply to Qwark; they prioritised crossplay consoles over the one with the biggest install base. He even follows up saying WHY it was important to do that:
And here he talks about crossplay restrictions being more work for them:
And again, stresses the importance of crossplay:
The context was also, as you originally replied to, regarding the next gen reset, anyway. Developers aren't going to just be bending over when corporate walled garden interests hurt their bottom line.
It's seen as passive aggressive when its done to defeat an argument (rather than answering questions or something) because it's generally pretty easy to pick apart one statement and refute it, as if that somehow negates the message of the entire post. It's a "gotcha" tactic.
I didn't call you names. I stated what it looked like you were doing, and asked you why you were doing it. If you really were engaging in good faith, you could have just answered the question.
This would be true if I cherry picked a sentence or two to argue my point. I almost always quote the entire post in multiple bubbles because I like to structure my argument point by point.
You stated that I seemed happy to lick their boots and directly insinuated that I'm a corporate apologist. I found this absolutely abhorrent given our discussion up until that point wasn't personal at all. You attacked me out of nowhere.
If you were engaging in good faith, you could have stayed on topic rather than resorting to below the belt terms.
Chucklefish gains nothing by lying. Sony does. I think it's pretty obvious that Shawn is doing this horrible spin.
Your posts read like those of a corporate apologist, whether you intended that or not. This isn't the first crossplay thread that you've behaved this way in. It wasn't a below the belt attack out of nowhere. It was an observation.
I've said my piece. If you want to double down on your "observation" and justify your detestable behaviour then be my guest.
I know I went wrong in swearing at you, I'm not going to try and justify it. Let's move on.
The gaming community would be so lucky as to get an answer that early. I wouldn't be surprised if they keep the "beta" going right up until next gen or the reveal of the PS5 and PS5 policies.
I see many fans (not talking about you, just pointing it out) talking about how great it would be for Sony to just wait it out and announce a crossplay feature across the board for the PS5 launch. As noted before, that would be a pathetic "PR" move and I don't think people are going to eat it up the way some are thinking they would. I mean, we know for a fact Shawn/Sony are lying with what was said in the OP and "basically" lying with the "bEtA" excuse, but that would solidify the fact that it was a stall for their next gen PR campaign. I'm sure some would still lap it up, but my point stands.
New to this story. Man they sent Shawn Layden out to take that bullet. They had to know the industry would respond and it would look awful. Right?
Yeah, that's a blatant lie. Wish they would actually change their stance.
But, wait, will Rocket League support full crossplay soon?
But, wait, will Rocket League support full crossplay soon?
It's really not. It's an easier way to break down long posts with multiple points to 1.) make it easier to respond to each point, and 2.) make it more organized and easier to read.
What a completely bizarre read of something as innocuous as posting style.
Sony is trying to control the narrative. They're big. Everyone else is small. They control (most of) the means of information dissemination (except for the small message boards).
Gross, tbqh.
Only other scenario I can imagine is Shawn Layden being horribly misinformed.
Layden is one of the biggest of wigs in the industry, particularly at Sony for a long time. He had to have known. I just can't imagine a corp where an executive of his level didn't know the details of such a business-driven decision.
It's not my own read, just what I've come to understand as the consensus on this sort of thing after a couple decades of posting on forums.
Yes. Sony has sent mixed messages since the beginning, coming up with all sorts of contradictory bullshit but I can see through the bullshit in that they just don't want to it.
-the earliest rebuttal was about how they don't want their children exposed to players (especially children) on Xbone and Switch. So...they are perfectly comfortable with exposing their players on PC?
-and speaking of PC, if it really just is about competition then why allow cross play at all? If you game on both PC and Ps4 and want to spend $20 bucks once on rocket league, you have to choose either the PC version or the Ps4 version. If you buy it on PC, Sony doesn't get your money, but you still get to play the game with people on Ps4.
-then there was the rebuttal of Ps4 being the best place to play Fortnite, and everyone in their fan base should be satisfied with it. But again, if that is their logic for not allowing crossplay with Xbone and Switch, why do they allow it with PC and mobile? Those aren't the "best places to play"...they are competition too, just not as direct hardware competition like the other consoles are. But they're still fucking competition. They are not playstation.
-now there's this rebuttal from Layden about how they are open to crossplay, just need the devs to talk to their connect at playstation. Simple as that. But that is not satisfactory because again if it really was that simple and you really are open to it, then why was the accidental Fortnite crossplay deactivated, why are you concerned with young players when mS offered Minecraft crossplay, why did you say there is no need for Ps4 crossplay saying it's the best place to play, and so on and so forth.
It's been almost a week and I'm still not done reading through this thread
Exactly. It is painfully obvious he knows what is going on. People like to mock PR all the time when this is actually straight up a blatant lie.
How is that "being fair"? Nothing in Layden's quote indicated that the reason there is not much more crossplay is because of the first game being in beta. He said they're open to it and that just simply isn't the case at face value.
The official statement on the policy is that crossplay with Xbox/Switch is that two games are in beta. Wargroove, for example, is not in Sony's crossplay beta. So that is how I said "to be fair". You can choose to believe it or not, but that's my take away.
Let's use the Xbox Parity Clause as a perfect example. We all know that there was a parity clause with indies before XB1 launched, but then that parity clause went away once Phil Spencer came along. Here is one of his statements regarding the matter:
https://www.dualshockers.com/xboxs-...lause-theres-no-clause-explains-how-it-works/
Phil says that he thinks the parity clause is dead, but then says there never was a clause in the same breath. This, to me, is similar to Shawn saying that "the developers just need to talk to Sony", but obviously Sony's communication is not working with said developers. Also, in the following paragraph Phil is basically stating what their clause is about if your game comes to Xbox later, then make it "special" so their consumers don't feel like being left out for not releasing at the same time as other platforms. This is a common theme for platforms that get games later due to timed exclusivity where their is special content that won't be seen on the original games launch. In other words, good PR to move the discussion to be about timed exclusivity in the event that XB1 does not have launch parity.
The same applies to Shawn's statement. The vocal consumers want crossplay on every game with every platform, but Sony has a beta going on with two games that allow that to happen. Once it is out of "beta", then maybe every game with crossplay is available at release. Regardless, Sony is "loosening its restrictions" on crossplay like MS did with the "parity clause".
So many words to put into a PR representative mouth things he didn't said.
So much effort to do Sony's job of properly explaining the situation with cross play.
So much effort to do Sony's job of properly explaining the situation with cross play.
I remember the parity clause with mS but the reason I'm choosing not to believe that the beta is the reason that's holding up crossplay on Ps4 is because that's not what Layden said, at all. He didn't say anything like "once these first few games are out of beta, then we'll go into some other games with crossplay..." - he didn't say that. His statement the way I am interpreting it is that crossplay is a go, and developers just have to tell Sony that they want it.
Understandable. My rebuttal to that is that the actions of Sony are not saying "yes" to all devs as the crossplay policy change is in beta. Now if they are saying "no" when its out a beta, then Sony just had no plans to say yes to begin with.
He knows, when you work for a big company you have to takes bullets, i take bullets everyday to protect my company. It doens't me he agrees with it.
Sony definitely had no plans to say yes from the get go. We had the CEO of Chucklefish and I think a DICE developer also posted here; the developers who wanted crossplay have reached out and did their part to make it happen and were told to fuck off. They weren't told "ok, we'll put Wargroove for Ps4 in a beta for crossplay" they were told "no"
edit: I'm still reading through this thread btw, I think I'm on page 20 now. This is really long
I'm not sure there's a meaningful distinction to make between someone willingly taking bullets and agreeing with where they're being fired from. I mean, in this case, where it serves as a metaphor, they're either supportive or complicit. More specifically, if Layden doesn't care enough to even so much as imply that Sony could do better, then, frankly, his personal feelings are utterly irrelevant as he's prioritising Sony's corporate line above his own principles.
That is another story, i mean, he is chairman of a big company wining a lot a money, in a few years he migth become the CEO of that company. I understand is
position.
Oh, I don't doubt he's towing the line because he wants to keep his job. I just don't think the idea that he is diametrically opposed to Sony's policy on cross-play is one that earns him brownie points if he isn't doing his part -- any part -- to enact change.
Wouldn't that be the beta? It seems like to me he wants it to happen, or at least have that feature to be done with it, but the beta was the best thing that could've happened right now?
Just asking.
When did they lie about in game footage?
That's the thing, though: there's the beta, and then him speaking from the other side of his mouth by saying it's opt-in. Evidently, there's a degree of gatekeeping. If he were honest about Sony's view on cross-play, this thread wouldn't as big as it is.
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Is Wargroove out on PS4 already? I tried looking for it on the store and couldn't find it.
Like what if one of the ways to get into the beta is actually having a game released?
Like what if one of the ways to get into the beta is actually having a game released?
Hmm. . Whatever it is, EPIC has the key it seems. Seeing as they have Fortnite and Dauntless full Xplay.
Read the second threadmark (And the other 2, but mostly the second).
Why do you always have to drag Microsoft into your examples when you defend Sony?
As been proven already, Shawn lied. This has nothing to do with any "beta."
I don't really feel like that answers anything.
Layden might not know of any roadblocks but there obviously is something. I just wonder if it's the case of your game most have been released for X amount of time or something.
If that were the case Hi-Rez and the devs for War Thunder wouldn't be having the same issues for their games.