Shawn Layden blames publishers and developers for lack of PlayStation crossplay (Up: Wargroove dev Chucklefish responds in thread - "We were told no")

OrdinaryPrime · Feb 13, 2019

Weltall Zero said:
This thread is really, really shining a light on the ugly corporate worship that is festering under the surface of even a supposedly progressive, anti-corporate, pro-dev, pro-indie forum like Resetera. It's pretty terrifying, frankly, and maybe thread-worthy on its own. :S

You should take a look at any post about microtransactions or any of the threads criticizing Rockstar for their crunch and view the reactions. It's startling. This even permeates Off Topic with its Apple corporate ball-washing. Bring up points like, RDR2 is going to sell 50 million copies and your stance is they couldn't do online without making it rife with horrible microtransactions. Just watch the responses. It's horrible. I've observed it across my country (USA) where people have more faith in corporations than our government. It's so disheartening and depressing.

As far as Sony, it's notable that they won the PR battle leading into this generation by being as transparent as possible. And with this issue in particular, they prefer obfuscation and outright lying. They've done it on Fortnite, I'm not sure what's the point now to try to take as long as possible to do these things. If there are infrastructure issues (there aren't) then perhaps. Just be fucking transparent and honest here.

elyetis said:
In a world where ignore thread is a thing so does script allowing you to automatically ignore threads based on key words; yes.

This shit permeates other threads though, if that plugin works for posts as well as threads, then yeah job done.

BMW · Feb 13, 2019

*Holds Sony's head* My dear beloved, it will be ok; the screams will stop. We don't need anyone; I don't need anyone else. Hold tight my Playstation; the ones yearning for crossplay are delusional. I will always be yours and you will always be mine. There is nothing that can separate our undying love. I know you don't look at others like you look at me.

I love you, Sony.

black070 · Feb 13, 2019

I find Sony's recent approach on cross-play really perplexing. It was dumb not enabling it all, but enabling it for a very limited range of games seems even dumber.

I'm certain they'll enable it in its entirety sooner or later, but I'll never understand why they wouldn't just that do that in the first place.

Heart of Poumn · Feb 13, 2019

I don't have a huge need for cross play myself (though I think it should be implemented everywhere). What I really hate is that my progress in online games won't carry over. If I want to play a game on another platform, I have to basically make a new account and start over with most games.

Deleted member 10737 · Feb 13, 2019

Bilix said:
I don't have a huge need for cross play myself (though I think it should be implemented everywhere). What I really hate is that my progress in online games won't carry over. If I want to play a game on another platform, I have to basically make a new account and start over with most games.

that's probably more on publishers than platform holders, specially for f2p games where you can pay money to progress. if they allow cross progression they won't be able to get your money twice.

JayWood2010 · Feb 13, 2019

Richter1887 said:
Man this thread is bringing some of the craziest people I have ever seen.

Shawn please fix this shit. We are devolving as species out of this shit.

Its fanboyism, and fixing this wont fix them worshipping their plastic box. A lot of people seem surprised by this behavior but its been rather pungent for a long time. And its not just defending, but sh*tting up opposing console threads.

Redfirm For me and my friends this would be great. We all have bought all platforms, but it seems rare that we all choose the same platform whether that be XB, Switch, PS, or PC. When Destiny came out this was an issue, and i basically had to choose whether I want to play with one friend or another. Dragon Ball FighterZ was another issue we had getting everybody on the same platform, and one way or the other somebody is left out.

neon_dream · Feb 13, 2019

Look at Sony trying to control the narrative.

M4xim1l1ano · Feb 13, 2019

Doesnt this mean that, thanks to crossplay, the amount of people you can play with/against increases?

That is the bottom line right? cross play allows for even more people to be available to play against... regardless of platforms.
How in the hell is this a bad thing?? The "not needed/not important" narrative is worthless here... crossplay allows for more people to play with, period!
and that is not a bad thing, period!

JFC!!

RF Switch · Feb 13, 2019

There is some outrage going on but man compared to when Microsoft were making these kinds of mistakes before this gen this is pretty tame.

TheGhost · Feb 13, 2019

SuikerBrood said:

This is what it's all about. Improved matchmaking. I could use this in Destiny. A lot better than getting my shit kicked in on Xbox

SheriffMcDuck · Feb 13, 2019

Lephotographeur said:
Doesnt this mean that, thanks to crossplay, the amount of people you can play with/against increases?

That is the bottom line right? cross play allows for even more people to be available to play against... regardless of platforms.
How in the hell is this a bad thing?? The "not needed/not important" narrative is worthless here... crossplay allows for more people to play with, period!
and that is not a bad thing, period!

JFC!!

Of course it's a good thing for the players.

Sony has the biggest install base, and most likely sees this more as helping Microsoft than helping themselves.

If every system can play together, the PS4 loses one more tick mark for why people should buy it. The "all my friends play on PS4, so I have to have one to play with them," box. It also inadvertently adds a tick mark for the Xbox One X being the strongest console.

Obviously, it's a dumb decision for them to keep going with this.

RF Switch said:
There is some outrage going on but man compared to when Microsoft were making these kinds of mistakes before this gen this is pretty tame.

I'd argue Microsoft's mistakes were far FAR more important to the gaming industry as a whole than crossplay.

black070 · Feb 13, 2019

TheGhost said:
This is what it's all about. Improved matchmaking. I could use this in Destiny. A lot better than getting my shit kicked in on Xbox

I'd have figured big games like Destiny, Call of Duty or Red Dead would have little trouble getting cross-play approved, has there been any word on the AAA front of Sony rejecting cross-play ?

Durante · Feb 13, 2019

black070 said:
I find Sony's recent approach on cross-play really perplexing. It was dumb not enabling it all, but enabling it for a very limited range of games seems even dumber.

I'm certain they'll enable it in its entirety sooner or later, but I'll never understand why they wouldn't just that do that in the first place.

They are apparently trying to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to public perception and vendor lock-in. It mostly doesn't appear to be working though, so hopefully they'll give up on the latter eventually.

Alvis · Feb 13, 2019

black070 said:
I'd have figured big games like Destiny, Call of Duty or Red Dead would have little trouble getting cross-play approved, has there been any word on the AAA front of Sony rejecting cross-play ?

The thing is, it's small indie / AA games that need crossplay the most. I mean, it should be universal, a normal thing you can do without asking anyone for permission, period. But if we're going with the "you must request approval" angle, which, again, is bullshit to begin with, CoD, Fortnite, RDR2, Rocket League, etc aren't exactly the games that need it. It's the small games with small communities.

Hell, something like Dark Souls Remastered would benefit enormously from Switch + PS4 + Xbox One + PC crossplay given how small the playerbase is.

Expy · Feb 13, 2019

SuikerBrood said:

Well, yes, of course it would benefit the minority since it makes their pool larger. These numbers would probably be a lot smaller for PS4 players vs their counterparts if Cross-Play is enabled though. But it's easier for impact's sake to show the benefit for the smaller user bases.

SuikerBrood · Feb 13, 2019

Expy said:
Well, yes, of course it would benefit the minority since it makes their pool larger. These numbers would probably be a lot smaller for PS4 players vs their counterparts if Cross-Play is enabled though. But it's easier for impact's sake to show the benefit for the smaller user bases.

So…?

TheGhost · Feb 13, 2019

black070 said:
I'd have figured big games like Destiny, Call of Duty or Red Dead would have little trouble getting cross-play approved, has there been any word on the AAA front of Sony rejecting cross-play ?

It's a matter of a more even playing field for all involved when ELO's are involved.

black070 · Feb 13, 2019

Xharos said:
The thing is, it's small indie / AA games that need crossplay the most. I mean, it should be universal, a normal thing you can do without asking anyone for permission, period. But if we're going with the "you must request approval" angle, which, again, is bullshit to begin with, CoD, Fortnite, RDR2, Rocket League, etc aren't exactly the games that need it. It's the small games with small communities.

Hell, something like Dark Souls Remastered would benefit enormously from Switch + PS4 + Xbox One + PC crossplay given how small the playerbase is.

Yeah thats exactly right. Honestly, the whole situation is just bizarre to me. I remember thinking if the big devs put the pressure on Sony to enable cross-play then we'll be golden - evidentally that isn't the case and instead we're getting it on a game by game basis.. which is what I really don't get.

OuterLimits · Feb 13, 2019

Expy said:
Well, yes, of course it would benefit the minority since it makes their pool larger. These numbers would probably be a lot smaller for PS4 players vs their counterparts if Cross-Play is enabled though. But it's easier for impact's sake to show the benefit for the smaller user bases.

not every game sells best on PS4. Some indies and mid budget games actually sell better(sometimes in a big way) on Switch or PC compared to PS4.

Mubrik_ · Feb 13, 2019

black070 said:
Yeah thats exactly right. Honestly, the whole situation is just bizarre to me. I remember thinking if the big devs put the pressure on Sony to enable cross-play then we'll be golden - evidentally that isn't the case and instead we're getting it on a game by game basis.. which is what I really don't get.

Big devs won't push anything, the model suits them perfectly. They rather you spend on two different platforms. For AAA games you'll have enough players per platform already so why should they? do they gain any from cross play except lost sales from someone that might double or triple dip?.

I think this is also sony stance showing on the situation their last earnings report shows just how big and growing PSN is. Unlike other platforms, PlayStation network is large enough to be isolated (for most games anyways)

Honestly it's cool and a big win for gamers
But as a business decision it's a tough one to call when you're market leader.

watdaeff4 · Feb 13, 2019

black070 said:
I find Sony's recent approach on cross-play really perplexing. It was dumb not enabling it all, but enabling it for a very limited range of games seems even dumber.

I'm certain they'll enable it in its entirety sooner or later, but I'll never understand why they wouldn't just that do that in the first place.

I'll give my conjecture

They never wanted to, but when they got a lot of negative press and fan reactions they did it for a select few popular games that were linked with the most outrage. In order to save face and continue to appear to look like they are for the gaming community they allowed it......for those select games

Weltall Zero · Feb 13, 2019

Redfirm said:
here is the thing, most people and their friends own the same console. there is usually a console dominance in a group of friends. you can act like this and just keep saying that you want crossplay for the sake of it, and i have a feeling that this is actually what you are saying, because your only reason is that you want to play with friends, but what are the advantages for people who's friends all play on the same console? instead of making fun of me, maybe try to understand the fact that honestly nobody out there cares about this, so if you cant convince them why this is important, then dont act surprised if things dont change. just screaming that you want something without being able to convince others why its good makes no sense, and as you know, most people dont care about something unless it gives them an advantage.

What the fuck? I have a friend that games solely on PC, another solely on Switch, another on PC and Switch, another on PC, Switch and PS4 (pretty much like me, but he priorizes PS4 on PS4/PC multiplatforms, while I do the opposite, so for example he has DB FighterZ on PS4 while I have it on PC), another solely on XBone, and another on XBone and PS4. If I were to apply your "every group of friends is exactly like mine" batshit insane logic, I would have to believe that every group of friends in the world has heterogeneous consoles, and therefore it's you who's lying. Fortunately, I'm not so deluded as to think my own little world is how literally everyone else is.

Deleted member 34385 · Feb 13, 2019

Weltall Zero said:
What the fuck? I have a friend that games solely on PC, another solely on Switch, another on PC and Switch, another on PC, Switch and PS4 (pretty much like me, but he priorizes PS4 on PS4/PC multiplatforms, while I do the opposite, so for example he has DB FighterZ on PS4 while I have it on PC), another solely on XBone, and another on XBone and PS4. If I were to apply your "every group of friends is exactly like mine" batshit insane logic, I would have to believe that every group of friends in the world has heterogeneous consoles, and therefore it's you who's lying. Fortunately, I'm not so deluded as to think my own little world is how literally everyone else is.

Read the topic and my reply to a few other people before replying like this..no need to insult and behave like you are.

black070 · Feb 13, 2019

watdaeff4 said:
I'll give my conjecture

They never wanted to, but when they got a lot of negative press and fan reactions they did it for a select few popular games that were linked with the most outrage. In order to save face and continue to appear to look like they are for the gaming community they allowed it......for those select games

That makes sense is probably an accurate account of whats going on, it's just incredibly short sighted and silly. They have no one to blame but themselves for prolonging the outrage.

ghostcrew · Feb 13, 2019

SheriffMcDuck said:
Sony has the biggest install base, and most likely sees this more as helping Microsoft than helping themselves.

If every system can play together, the PS4 loses one more tick mark for why people should buy it. The "all my friends play on PS4, so I have to have one to play with them," box. It also inadvertently adds a tick mark for the Xbox One X being the strongest console.

You can't take this as a given. Do you think the PS4 version of Minecraft has the largest playerbase over PC or mobile? We hear about indie games that sell most on Switch all of the time. Titanfall 2 has twice as many players on Xbox One as it does on PS4.

PS4 has a big playerbase. But not every game is most popular on PS4. And especially with two options; PS4 players in one pool or PC, Xbox One, Switch and mobile players in another (to create a hypothetical), there's an obvious discrepancy there.

Dunlop · Feb 13, 2019

Expy said:
Well, yes, of course it would benefit the minority since it makes their pool larger. These numbers would probably be a lot smaller for PS4 players vs their counterparts if Cross-Play is enabled though. But it's easier for impact's sake to show the benefit for the smaller user bases.

I'm not sure on the point you are trying to make here. It's literally the reason for crossplay, it will also extend the life of online only games

mael · Feb 13, 2019

tutomos said:
No, at no point did I say I want to know what CRM they are using. Not sure why you bring that up.

Process and details matter, and those were omitted from the response, especially the goal is to provide an "balanced" account of what's happening. I simply want to know more personally about this issue, and only thing that can satisfy the need I have is to have more devs coming out to shed light on it instead of you repeating the same thing all over. It's not helping me personally.

We know, they asked and were told "no", not "do this" or "you would need to incorporate this", just "no".
They asked for months so if Sony made any technical requirement, they could have worked around this and certainly wouldn't have kept asking for months on end.

onanie said:
The more logical conclusion is that Fortnite and Rocket League were able to satisfy Sony's requirements.

That requirement being be a big game with a lot of customers.

Admiral Woofington · Feb 13, 2019

This thread has been an experience in itself. Seeing all the people bending over backwards for Sony is hilarious and sad. Like the concept of owning the console but not necessarily selling your soul is unheard of.

Weltall Zero · Feb 13, 2019

Durante said:
They are apparently trying to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to public perception and vendor lock-in. It mostly doesn't appear to be working though, so hopefully they'll give up on the latter eventually.

I don't know, outside ResetEra, one has to wonder how many people are reading Chucklefish' reply versus Sony's original statement. Sony has a much bigger reach, they know full well, and they're leveraging this to, indeed, have their cake and eat it.

Redfirm said:
Read the topic and my reply to a few other people before replying like this..no need to insult and behave like you are.

That is rich for someone calling everyone else a liar (which your "everyone here has a PS4" doesn't even begin to excuse). Edit your original post if you want people to stop replying to it, people have no obligation to wade through your own personal journey of self-enlightment before they reply to any one of your posts.

DeadOblivion78 · Feb 13, 2019

What this thread has taught me is that the amount of people who give a crap about cross play isn't enough for Playstation to give a crap about universal cross play.

Deleted member 5864 · Feb 13, 2019

kyshakk said:
What this thread has taught me is that the amount of people who give a crap about cross play isn't enough for Playstation to give a crap about universal cross play.

You probably need to read it again then.

Deleted member 249 · Feb 13, 2019

kyshakk said:
What this thread has taught me is that the amount of people who give a crap about cross play isn't enough for Playstation to give a crap about universal cross play.

Weird takeaway but okay

Friskykillface · Feb 13, 2019

Admiral Woofington said:
This thread has been an experience in itself. Seeing all the people bending over backwards for Sony is hilarious and sad. Like the concept of owning the console but not necessarily selling your soul is unheard of.

Brand loyalty is a crazy/scary thing to see
Lol these companies don't give a shit about you/me

I still think cross play was being saved for a "omg x wow" moment during their PS5 announcement.

Deleted member 41104 · Feb 13, 2019

SuikerBrood said:
So…?

I'm afraid you won't get an honest answer from a poster such as him. He even compared devs who speak out about this issue to those who whine because they can't get into the Dream beta.

VeePs · Feb 13, 2019

Expy said:
Well, yes, of course it would benefit the minority since it makes their pool larger. These numbers would probably be a lot smaller for PS4 players vs their counterparts if Cross-Play is enabled though. But it's easier for impact's sake to show the benefit for the smaller user bases.

Titanfall 2 has like a population of 3000 on PS4. On Xbox it has a population of 7000. Both consoles would benefit from crossplay.

(Judging by the resurgence thread)

Deleted member 34385 · Feb 13, 2019

Weltall Zero said:
I don't know, outside ResetEra, one has to wonder how many people are reading Chucklefish' reply versus Sony's original statement. Sony has a much bigger reach, they know full well, and they're leveraging this to, indeed, have their cake and eat it.

That is rich for someone calling everyone else a liar (which your "everyone here has a PS4" doesn't even begin to excuse). Edit your original post if you want people to stop replying to it, people have no obligation to wade through your own personal journey of self-enlightment before they reply to any one of your posts.

Alright buddy, I have a better idea, i am just going to ignore you from now on. cya

black070 · Feb 13, 2019

VeePs said:
Titanfall 2 has like a population of 3000 on PS4. On Xbox it has a population of 7000. Both consoles would benefit from crossplay.

I want cross-play for Titanfall 2 so bad.

Deleted member 34385 · Feb 13, 2019

black070 said:
I want cross-play for Titanfall 2 so bad.

you mean titanfall 3 :P

SheriffMcDuck · Feb 13, 2019

ghostcrew said:
You can't take this as a given. Do you think the PS4 version of Minecraft has the largest playerbase over PC or mobile? We hear about indie games that sell most on Switch all of the time. Titanfall 2 has twice as many players on Xbox One as it does on PS4.

PS4 has a big playerbase. But not every game is most popular on PS4. And especially with two options; PS4 players in one pool or PC, Xbox One, Switch and mobile players in another (to create a hypothetical), there's an obvious discrepancy there.

I'm not saying they have the largest playerbase of every game. I'm saying that they have the largest install base, which up until crossplay happened would be incentive for someone that doesn't have a console to buy a console their other friends have to play a multiplayer game with them. Because it's fact that more people have PS4's than Xbox One's.

I think Sony is trying to hold onto that, which I understand because they have the most sales. Doesn't make it right, or okay.

TheGhost · Feb 13, 2019

black070 said:
I want cross-play for Titanfall 2 so bad.

Now see that's something that would greatly benefit from crossplay. Perfect example.

Mr. Fantastic · Feb 13, 2019

its been so torturous being banned and not being able to reply to all the dumbshit hot takes in this thread, and most of those users are banned now so im just going to say in response to everyone defending sonys blantant lies:

DOT_mjo · Feb 13, 2019

We have to stop acting like Microsoft wouldn't be pulling the same BS if they were in the driver's seat.

takriel · Feb 13, 2019

DOT_mjo said:
We have to stop acting like Microsoft wouldn't be pulling the same BS if they were in the driver's seat.

Who said anything about Microsoft???

SnatcherHunter · Feb 13, 2019

DOT_mjo said:
We have to stop acting like Microsoft wouldn't be pulling the same BS if they were in the driver's seat.

Come on. Don't go there.

night814 · Feb 13, 2019

Weltall Zero said:
What the fuck? I have a friend that games solely on PC, another solely on Switch, another on PC and Switch, another on PC, Switch and PS4 (pretty much like me, but he priorizes PS4 on PS4/PC multiplatforms, while I do the opposite, so for example he has DB FighterZ on PS4 while I have it on PC), another solely on XBone, and another on XBone and PS4. If I were to apply your "every group of friends is exactly like mine" batshit insane logic, I would have to believe that every group of friends in the world has heterogeneous consoles, and therefore it's you who's lying. Fortunately, I'm not so deluded as to think my own little world is how literally everyone else is.

Same here, I have 3 major gaming friends and one has just a switch, one has a Switch and PS4, and the other has just PS4. I have all three so I'm the only one that has an XB1 but I have it because that's my step-sons platform of choice so he and I can play stuff together.

Mr. Fantastic · Feb 13, 2019

DOT_mjo said:
We have to stop acting like Microsoft wouldn't be pulling the same BS if they were in the driver's seat.

we need to have a bingo card for the shitposting deflects going on in these threads at this point

Deleted member 32018 · Feb 13, 2019

DOT_mjo said:
We have to stop acting like Microsoft wouldn't be pulling the same BS if they were in the driver's seat.

And they have rightfully been called out on their BS before...

This has got absolutely nothing to do with hating on Sony, we just want a feature that would benefit both developers and consumers.

Carolina Reaper · Feb 13, 2019

black070 said:
I'd have figured big games like Destiny, Call of Duty or Red Dead would have little trouble getting cross-play approved, has there been any word on the AAA front of Sony rejecting cross-play ?

Bungie doesn't want cross play. They have a hard enough time getting matchmaking right without it. Imagine them trying to do it when a large chunk of the user base has maps, weapons and armor that are exclusive to one console only.

DOT_mjo said:
We have to stop acting like Microsoft wouldn't be pulling the same BS if they were in the driver's seat.

You know you're a fanboy when you feel the need to pull the "But the other guy would probably do this too!" card.

DOT_mjo · Feb 13, 2019

takriel said:
Who said anything about Microsoft???

SnatcherHunter said:
Come on. Don't go there.

Mr. Fantastic said:
we need to have a bingo card for the shitposting deflects going on in these threads at this point

steviejd1 said:
And they have rightfully been called out on their BS before...

This has got absolutely nothing to do with hating on Sony, we just want a feature that would benefit both developers and consumers.

Trust, I'm on your side. I want crossplay. Sony is fucking dumb for what they are doing. But they are just playing the game that any other industry leader would play. Am I annoyed by it? Yes. Is it surprising at all? No.

mael · Feb 13, 2019

DOT_mjo said:
We have to stop acting like Microsoft wouldn't be pulling the same BS if they were in the driver's seat.

You really weren't part of this community circa 2013 when MSFT tried to pull some BS and collectively facepalmed at MSFT's stupidity.
Heck this very same community took no time to shit on Nintendo when they tried to pull some shit on youtube.
Like I think only steam is exempt from being shit on when they pull some BS.

Shawn Layden blames publishers and developers for lack of PlayStation crossplay (Up: Wargroove dev Chucklefish responds in thread - "We were told no")

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