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Shawn Layden blames publishers and developers for lack of PlayStation crossplay (Up: Wargroove dev Chucklefish responds in thread - "We were told no")
- Thread starter Aokiji
- Start date
Because we have 4 different and very competent developers calling out Sony on this.
The other part of your post was answered by someone else.
Uhhh, have you seen my post history on this subject (Or hell, this singular thread) or misqoute? I think you may have missed what i was going for, or i may have misconveyed it. My goal was to show the individual what criteria we could gleam from the situation, and that it's literally grade A bullshit that most of us disagree it.
Edit: And now it doesn't even matter lol.
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If I'm missing information then I have no problem admitting I'm wrong about you guys.
I guess the way they look at it is when you are selling so well you can afford to do stall tactics and make it appear they are still the good guys. If anything they do know they have a large loyal fanbase they can always rely on.
Why should they tell us? As evidenced by the shitstorm following the single post, I would never post insider info here ever
Never underestimate fanboys with a tremendous sense of brand loyalty.
What obligation does Sony have to reveal sensitive and proprietary partnership information to appease a bunch of people in niche enthusiast circles? I'd be far more interested in seeing how the studios making the claims that Sony won't play ball are approaching the topic with their AMs.
Not in as many words, hence "dancing around". You assumed there were conditions they didn't disclose, making their statement at best a half truth.
If there were any conditionals they wouldn't have used the words "not happening"; they would have used "not happening unless...". Again, if you assume there was an "unless", then you're implying Chucklefish is being dishonest.
Hopefully they can indeed clear it up, just so that people concern trolling about this... well, I was going to say "shut the hell up" but I think we all know the correct answer is "find somewhere else to move the goalposts to".
"Sony is under no obligation to release information just because you want it!"
"I want studios to release information because I want it".
Studios are the ones bitching about it, so yah, I'd say they should back it up with full transparency if they give a shit. Or just stop talking about it.
Asking someone to believe a studio without proof is about the same as asking anyone to believe Sony without proof.
I actually don't want or care for either.
But care enough to make demands for the developers and make excuses for Sony.
Part of me wonders if they are reserving crossplay for the PS5 news. It would be some easy positive buzz that wouldn't be "wasted" at the tail end of one of the best selling game consoles.
I hope to god that the crossplay business is lifted by next gen if not before. Because if they still hold out, like...come on...come the fuck on.
I hope to god that the crossplay business is lifted by next gen if not before. Because if they still hold out, like...come on...come the fuck on.
Ah, the beaufiful ifpology. I think what you want to say is "I was missing information, sorry for being wrong".
Why stop talking about it? It's literally the only reason why they caved to begin with.
It would look pretty stupid at this point to make that a marketing ad when Shawn is acting like they are full on right now.
User Banned (3 Days) - Conspiracy Theories & Disingenuous Arguments against developers.
I'm making .. neither? I'm being realistic that unless we see how these things are going down we have no fucking clue who's saying or doing what. Either side is as credible as the other to me. Unless there is actual evidence of how Sony has handled the matter and how these studios have asked, this whole discussion is basically pointless.
Talk about it and back up your claims then. Show a screenshot of emails with their partner manager/account manager/higher ups and what was asked/responded, don't just make vague broad claims and expect the world to believe you.
I worked in this industry. Things are very seldom as simple as people present them, and very large platform holders have a lot more to lose from blatantly lying than small-time developers do from twisting the truth to make themselves look good.
What nearly everyone here is assuming is that a top-level PlayStation exec told a black-and-white bold-faced lie on Twitter, after filtering through likely a PR team that fact checked the claim, and that in fact Sony does not allow developers to implement CrossPlay despite saying otherwise.
I'm willing to bet there are requirements, costs, or facets of implementing CrossPlay with PSN that this developer just doesn't want or hasn't approached in the correct manner, or wants to do it in a way Sony doesn't allow. They could immediately dispel this by just releasing Sony saying "no" when they agreed to comply with any requirements, and I'd gladly eat my hat on this.
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User Warned: Inappropriate analogy
Or, you know, leave the thread since you're the one that doesn't care.
Believing a studio when it has no reason whatsoever to lie (and can face serious repercussions if they do) is not the same as believing a corporation when it has every reason to lie. Also known as the reason normal people don't say "she's probably lying" to abuse victims.
If you don't care, the fuck are you doing here? Terms like "bitching" and "if they give a shit" prove without a shadow of a doubt who precisely do you care for. What are you exactly asking for here, screenshots of the actual correspondence between the studios and Sony? So convenient that you won't be swayed by anything short of confidentiality-breaching.
Imagine stanning so hard for Sony when cross play has been an issue for months and months with them and only them, and somehow blame the developers that have had games cross playing with other platforms without any issue at all.
We dont need confidential emails to know where the problem lies.
We dont need confidential emails to know where the problem lies.
Nah I'm good here.
When you compared a game studio to a victim of abuse is where I generally stopped taking you or anything you have to say seriously. How absolutely insane and clueless do you have to be to even begin to think about making this comparison? Big yikes.
Not caring doesn't mean I don't have an opinion. And yup, short of showing how these interactions went down, nobody will really know the nuance that is really, really important to make any judgement here.
OP
OP
not gonna lie, disappointed in the mods for changing the title to fan the flame wars currently going on in here right now
EDIT: since common sense is less common than i thought, the disappointment is from the redundant changing of a particular word, which only seemed to have made the fighting *even* worse. it has nothing to do with mentioning the developers reaction. as for people who think i "wanted the thread to go a certain way" the OP is literally just shawn's quote and the entire direction and premise of this thread was already refuting what Shawn was saying all the way from Page 1, so not exactly sure what "direction" i was aiming for lmao
EDIT: since common sense is less common than i thought, the disappointment is from the redundant changing of a particular word, which only seemed to have made the fighting *even* worse. it has nothing to do with mentioning the developers reaction. as for people who think i "wanted the thread to go a certain way" the OP is literally just shawn's quote and the entire direction and premise of this thread was already refuting what Shawn was saying all the way from Page 1, so not exactly sure what "direction" i was aiming for lmao
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Sorry, I misinterpreted your post. I read it as defending PC / PS4 as good enough, and what Layden was talking about.
That hasn't stopped this thread.
Xplay benefits studios and consumers. There is no reason not to support it. It doesn't put any excessive burden on anyone, developers are overwhelmingly in favor of supporting it and it makes games better as a whole. You'd have to be the utmost worst version of a fanboy and stick your head on the sand on what Sony are doing and saying about it. They are literally holding developers and customers back to keep their bottom line, and people here are asking for more as long as they can win the warz becuase that degree of brand slavish devotion is probably the only thing they have going on for them. It's fucking nauseating.
Because the direction of the thread isn't going the way you want? Because we aren't worshipping our Sony overlords and we had the other side of the story from another developer?
That's the second time you've complained about the thread title, you can contact a mod directly if you are that concerned.
I'd like to point out something. Have people really forgotten that just a few years ago, Sony had a total ban on "ports" to Playstation systems? You had to add a certain percentage of new content or gimmicks for Playstation hardware. It's why so many games skipped the PSP. Sony killed Free Radical's plans to remaster the TimeSplitters games. Doak talked about it in an interview last year. Free Radical wanted to port TimeSplitters to the PSP. Sony said no. Free Radical wanted to port TimeSplitters to PS3. Sony said no. Free Radical wanted to port TimeSplitters to the PS Vita. Sony said no. Every time, it was because FR wanted to release a vanilla port. Clean up the games, add online MP, no other frills. Just that TimeSplitters goodness. Sony wasn't having any of it. Which was really ironic because the entire reason TimeSplitters exists is because FR showed Sony a tech demo of the first game. Eidos had prevented FR from making FPS games, which was bizarre considering they were literally half of the original GoldenEye team. It was Sony's interest that tipped the scales.
Most of these big companies such as Nintendo and Sony had an Atari-lite mentality when it came to their consoles. They wanted to control what was allowed on their system. It didn't matter how good your game was. You were simply not allowed to re-release a PS2 game on the PS3. (Of course they broke this rule for themselves with stuff like Ico and God of War because hey it's different when I do it.) This mentality has gradually relaxed, but there are still traces of it. It pops up in stuff like crossplay.
It's not fanning a flame, it's adding additional, important information
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I'm making .. neither? I'm being realistic that unless we see how these things are going down we have no fucking clue who's saying or doing what. Either side is as credible as the other to me. Unless there is actual evidence of how Sony has handled the matter and how these studios have asked, this whole discussion is basically pointless.
Talk about it and back up your claims then. Show a screenshot of emails with their partner manager/account manager/higher ups and what was asked/responded, don't just make vague broad claims and expect the world to believe you.
I worked in this industry. Things are very seldom as simple as people present them, and very large platform holders have a lot more to lose from blatantly lying than small-time developers do from twisting the truth to make themselves look good.
What nearly everyone here is assuming is that a top-level PlayStation exec told a black-and-white bold-faced lie on Twitter, after filtering through likely a PR team that fact checked the claim, and that in fact Sony does not allow developers to implement CrossPlay despite saying otherwise.
I'm willing to bet there are requirements, costs, or facets of implementing CrossPlay with PSN that this developer just doesn't want or hasn't approached in the correct manner, or wants to do it in a way Sony doesn't allow. They could immediately dispel this by just releasing Sony saying "no" when they agreed to comply with any requirements, and I'd gladly eat my hat on this.
This completely, it's exactly what I said previously but better. They don't even need to really print out the terms and conditions just flat out say "the developers didn't meet the standards or requirements set" at that point its on the devs depending on what is being asked to decide if it costs anything, effects their beliefs etc. Right now it's not any concrete plans yet that show progress with intent to resolve the problem.
You really don't seem to be, though.
All that outrage from an offhand comment and you didn't even stop writing your reply? Convincing.
By all means pretend I said "game studios are like abuse victims!" and not, you know, simply point out that it's shitty for someone to take a very real risk, speaking against someone in a much bigger position of power, with nothing to gain for themselves, only to be received with "I don't believe you", in these or any other situations.
By all means also use this to avoid clarifying exactly what are you demanding from developers to prove it to you that they're not lying, while at the same time not breaching confidentiality. I mean, it's not like that was a far more important point that you obviously have nothing to reply to. No, the mock outrage is more important.
Not caring usually implies not devoting your time to let people know how little you care. :)
I think the current title very adequately represents the facts of the situation, and I'm reasonably positive you are unhappy with it because the thread ended up not going the way you wanted it to go.
And maybe break half a dozen NDAs by publicizing private contact with a Sony representative.
Then what, when they get sued/dropped from Sony's platform will you start attacking them because "they broke the contract, that's on them"?
There's literally NO way to win with some people here.
I am absolutely, 100%, objectively sure that there's nothing a developer can show or say that will make you and the people so vehemently defending their company of choice change their minds on that. Because the line to be crossed always moves when we get there.
Yeah, the abuse victims anology was probably not in the best taste btw. I think the point could have been made without invoking it directly.
Given the information that has come to light thanks to the CEO of Chucklefish, I think it's perfectly fine to highlight the discrepancy between what Layden said and what Sony is actually doing.
If they have no way to backup their claims, they shouldn't be making them. Once again, the nuance that's missing is critical for passing judgement here if you're actually trying to be fair, which most people aren't. They're just siding with the smaller side because reasons.
