Shawn Layden blames publishers and developers for lack of PlayStation crossplay (Up: Wargroove dev Chucklefish responds in thread - "We were told no")

[gofreak]

a giant corporation flipping on something that was affecting their business is perhaps the most rational explanation possible

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It's totally rational to flip on Fortnite et al, but my point is that having taken that step, though, it seems irrational to go out of your way to complicate your business process and not make it universal for the small guys also. Like, they're not getting anything back in terms of what they've 'lost' by allowing cross play in the big games, by not allowing it in small ones.

Armaros' point above is the closest someone's offered to why it might be rational for Sony to do that, but I think in terms of expected standards, the big games are where those expectations are set anyway now. And clearly are, otherwise this wouldn't be an ongoing issue.

 

[TheGhost]

Apparently there may still be some factors in the process of allowing developers/publishers in entering the Cross-Play BETA that Shawn doesn't know about. He clearly says in the interview that he doesn't believe there are any gating factors, but that shows that he doesn't know for sure.

Either way, cross-play is in the beta process on PSN, that's a fact. Whether or not, or when this becomes a standard on PSN is another question. Not really affecting the bottom line for the company so it isn't really a pressing matter to them. They may just announce full cross-play at their PS5 event for the extra kick.

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Do you really think it's a "beta"
If their systems are not crashing from the biggest game in the universe(Fortnite) having cross pollination with switch/Xbox...then It's no longer in beta. It works....right now it's just PR gatekeeping bullshit.

 

[Deleted member 2145]

The thread title indicates a dev said something, what post # is it?

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291

 

[Alvis]

The thread title indicates a dev said something, what post # is it?

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Threadmarks are there for a reason...
https://www.resetera.com/threads/sh...ad-we-were-told-no.99096/page-6#post-17824429

 

[Kyrios]

So either he's lying or there's a huge lack of communication between teams at Sony...

I couldn't care less about crossplay, but if huge games like Fortnite and Rocket League can feature it, there's literally no reason why *every* smaller indie game can't feature it.

 

[Papercuts]

Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

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Unfortunate to hear, but thanks for the update.

Unsurprisingly seems like a pretty clear case here since this seems to be the same exact thing that happened with Rocket League. They're clearly playing favorites and just letting it happen as they need to when games get big enough, which is hilariously dumb since crossplay can have the biggest population impact on smaller games.

 

[SplitYourInfinities]

Ooof. Not a good look Sony.

 

[Puroresu_kid]

Nice try Sony but we are not that gullible.

 

[Gestault]

Especially with the added gaslighting, Layden has managed to burn yet-again more goodwill, and this time it was an implied attack on the credibility of their business partners.

 

[Carolina Reaper]

remember when Sony cared about indie games? now they're actively working against those that want crossplay and they made Jim "there was a time and a place for indie games" Ryan President and CEO of SIE. does not fill me with optimism!

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Yes, they cared about them at the start of the gen when it was convenient and necessary. The funny thing is people actually thought Sony gave a real shit about indies.

 

[deathsaber]

They don't wanna give Xbox and Switch access to the much bigger PS4 userbase (therefore indirectly improving Xbox and Switch online experience by reducing queue time), and they definitely want people to be forced to buy a PS4 if they want to play with their PS4 friends. The PR was so bad with Fortnite and Rocket League that they allowed it only for these games hiding behind the "beta" bullshit.

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I think you pretty much hit the mail on the head. Right now, Sony is basically only accommodating rare titles that have basically "moved the needle" in the overall gaming meta, so they caved on Fortnite, and Rocket League is soon coming. Maybe if Activision decided to be a real pain in the ass and made angry statements about crossplay for Call of Duty, or EA did the same with Battlefield, Apex, Anthem, Sports games, or 2k with NBA 2k) maybe things would happen with those titles as well. But those big devs probably don't care, they got a shit ton of people playing on any platform, and would rather not challenge Sony or any of their platform partners they depend on to sell the multi millions needed to be profitable. Bethesda tried to talk a little smack with Fallout 76, (and they previously butted heads with Sony before on mods being available on Fallout 4/Skyrim but that game is such a piece of shit and pretty much no one cares now, so no action there.

But if you are companies similar to Chucklefish or say somone like Hi-Rez (Paladins, Smite, Realm Royale)- both smallish crews who are pushing for crossplay and implementing it in their games with smaller, but dedicated communities (with Sony left out of course), they will get no luck because Sony just don't care about the small fry.

 

[Take5GiantSteps]

They probably flip it only for Big Names right now like with Fortnite.
They don't need to listen to the small guys because they can't have any impact on the juggernaut they are in the industry.
Playstation holds the majority of players so most people won't be affected anyway with smaller titles.

I mean who is Chucklefish?
Shawn Layden or anyone probably never heard of them and neither did most gamers so it doesn't matter if they don't support it for these games.

Fortnite is something different because its a well known Name and the millions of kids on each platform could have turned against them.

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Lmaooooooo

It would have taken a tenth of the time to google chucklefish than to write this post. Embarrassing.

The thread title indicates a dev said something, what post # is it?

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It's literally in the OP.

 

[EvilBoris]

Shawn Layden clearly is a champagne charlie and has no idea what is actually happening in grunt land

 

[Kusagari]

I can't believe all the people in this thread just giving Layden the benefit of the doubt that he doesn't actually know what's going on.

 

[TheRaidenPT]

Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

Click to shrink...

Any chance we can ping this to Shawn? Let's get some pressure going onto Cross-Play especially with a huge new game like Apex Legends put... If Forrnite and Rocket can have it so can the others, let's go boys

 

[Deleted member 51266]

It's 4 their players

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Not even #4theirplayers, most fighting games fans and players who play semi-dead games like Titanfall 2 and others on the PS4 would tell you that they'd kill to have crossplay enabled.

They're #4theirfanboyswhodon'tcareaboutonlinegames.

 

[Deleted member 2145]

It's totally rational to flip on Fortnite et al, but my point is that having taken that step, though, it seems irrational to go out of your way to complicate your business process and not make it universal for the small guys also. Like, they're not getting anything back in terms of what they've 'lost' by allowing cross play in the big games, by not allowing it in small ones.

Armaros' point above is the closest someone's offered to why it might be rational for Sony to do that, but I think in terms of expected standards, the big games are where those expectations are set anyway now. And clearly are, otherwise this wouldn't be an ongoing issue.

Click to shrink...

they don't actually want to fully support crossplay hence only flipping for certain games

 

[I KILL PXLS]

Maybe, but it seems wholly irrational - unless there is another rational explanation for what it gets Sony to open up on big communities and stay closed on small ones. In terms of potential impact on network effects, yielding on the likes of Fortnite and then caring about keeping tiny games closed is like being OK to open up to a tidal wave while plugging tiny leaks elsewhere.

I do get that, I just don't get what it buys Sony to care about the small fish while allowing huge holes in Metcalf's Law to be blown open elsewhere by the largest game communities.

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I mean, the simplest explanation is that excuse is largely bullshit. Just like pretty much every other excuse they've given on the issue when you remember they've been doing PC crossplay for years now.

 

[The Artisan]

291

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thank you

Threadmarks are there for a reason...
https://www.resetera.com/threads/sh...ad-we-were-told-no.99096/page-6#post-17824429

Click to shrink...

threadmarks? I'm currently viewing on mobile, usually in cases like this, the thread title includes the post number

 

[Calverz]

I've been saying for years. Once it became apparent that sony lucked out this gen, and realised they would win, they've been coasting it. Arrogant Sony have returned. Unfortunately without Ken Kutaragi!!

 

[TheRaidenPT]

I can't believe all the people in this thread just giving Layden the benefit of the doubt that he doesn't actually know what's going on.

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Let's ping him this new game and see what happens, maybe we could get some awareness going for this at the higher ups at Sony

 

[Ryuhza]

Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

Click to shrink...

Good on you to speak out. I think the more devs talk about their experiences and the more we can hold Sony accountable for dishonesty/disingenuous statements, the closer we can get to an actual policy change.

 

[Kyoufu]

If Fortnite's cross-play beta was a success (and seemingly Rocket League?) then there's no reason for Sony to still act cute and precious about their player base advantage. There's literally no reason to not open the floodgates. Shawn's tweets are gonna get spammed again, methinks.

 

[TheRaidenPT]

I've been saying for years. Once it became apparent that sony lucked out this gen, and realised they would win, they've been coasting it. Arrogant Sony have returned. Unfortunately without Ken Kutaragi!!

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Or Kaz, there's no arrogant Sony without the main arrogant one... Still waiting for 4k Killzone 2 over here

 

[Deleted member 30151]

It would have taken a tenth of the time to google chucklefish than to write this post. Embarrassing.

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Yes, someone burned his fingers here. Of course Chucklefish isn't an epic like Epic, but with the publishing of Stardew Valley, they became pretty well known among the Indie-Community. And Wargroove is successful as hell currently. It's not like it's a one man studio who is still creating it's own game and is complaining about Sonys lack of support.

 

[Duxxy3]

Yikes. Sony would have been better off saying nothing at all.

 

[Deleted member 1759]

thank you
threadmarks? I'm currently viewing on mobile, usually in cases like this, the thread title includes the post number

Click to shrink...

Click to shrink...

it's also right above the reply box on mobile.

 

[VeePs]

thank you
threadmarks? I'm currently viewing on mobile, usually in cases like this, the thread title includes the post number

Click to shrink...

I'm on mobile too. If a post is quoted in the OP in the future just bit the "arrow" in the quotes and it should take you to the post.

 

[Sandbox]

Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

Click to shrink...

Thank you for this wonderful response from you, And very happy with what you have achieved with your last game.

But with the most regrettable i have to say sony does not care about you because your game is not profitable and famous like fortnite.

I hope this situation changes for the better.

 

[Deleted member 4761]

Shawn Layden and Jim Ryan... what a bright future.

 

[InquisitorAles]

Sony is lying and spreading bullshit again? What a huge surprise! /s

 

[Outrun]

They don't give a fart about these small indie studios.

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They should.

 

[Outrun]

Sony is lying and spreading bullshit again? What a huge surprise! /s

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… And people are actually defending this shit....

The ConsoleWarz is alive and well. I shudder to think about the new console releases....

Sony are lying. They do not need to.

Just say that they dont want it, and be done with it.

The problem is that they want to keep their street cred, but want to close off their MP system.

What they should not do is throw the devs under the bus.

 

[Deleted member 23046]

I can't believe all the people in this thread just giving Layden the benefit of the doubt that he doesn't actually know what's going on.

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With how he used the conditional, he couldn't be formally accused of lying, only being ignorant.

 

[Coolade]

If I'm not mistaken Sony gets a 30% cut on all mtx purchases correct? I thought they didn't want cross play/cross progress because they don't want you spending money in another ecosystem and playing with purchased items later on ps4. It makes business sense but I still feel it's short sighted and halting progress. There are many games I don't buy or make in game purchases in because I can't play online with Xbox friends.

 

[Barrel Cannon]

Well looks like Sony needs to recheck their process and see how they can improve it if there are hitches happening

 

[Deleted member 249]

They probably flip it only for Big Names right now like with Fortnite.
They don't need to listen to the small guys because they can't have any impact on the juggernaut they are in the industry.
Playstation holds the majority of players so most people won't be affected anyway with smaller titles.

I mean who is Chucklefish?
Shawn Layden or anyone probably never heard of them and neither did most gamers so it doesn't matter if they don't support it for these games.

Fortnite is something different because its a well known Name and the millions of kids on each platform could have turned against them.




They don't give a fart about these small indie studios.

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Fucking Jesus hell, this post is embarrassing. Feel bad about your corporate apologism. Sony doesn't give a fart about you.

 

[VeePs]

I mean who is Chucklefish?
Shawn Layden or anyone probably never heard of them and neither did most gamers so it doesn't matter if they don't support it for these game

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Stardew Valley has sold well over 3 million and was a top seller on all the consoles it was on. Chucklefish published it.

If Layden doesn't know who Chucklefish is he's not fit for his job, easy as that.

 

[gofreak]

they don't actually want to fully support crossplay hence only flipping for certain games

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We're going around in circles, but by my understanding of why they don't want to - network effects - it's not something you can partially be in or out of IMO. That's where I think we're disagreeing. IMO you're either enjoying the benefits of an exclusive network and Metcalf's Law in that context, or you're not. Flipping it for only certain games isn't stopping the 'damage' on that front, if that's the underlying motivation around what they want to protect. That's where my question over the rationality of it is, I don't really see it as something you can limit if you're blowing open holes in the network wall with your biggest games. Maybe there's some other reason they don't want to, but I haven't seen it offered (again, aside from Armaros' suggestion of standards and expectations).

Anyway, I think at this stage it's on Sony to get onto one page that's coherent between users and publishers, whatever that page is. It just looks shoddy in the meantime.

Layden is going to be on stage at DICE in a couple of hours, so maybe someone can shout something up at him there D:

 

[Raijinto]

So Sony/Layden were actually just lying and are still standing alone in the way of this obviously beneficial thing.

Quelle suprise.

They'll still have their defenders on here I'm sure. Well 1 less rude multi-quoter ATM but still.

Edit: wow right as I'm posting we get a "who are Chucklefish and why should Sony care?" You can't make this up.

 

[Take5GiantSteps]

Yes, someone burned his fingers here. Of course Chucklefish isn't an epic like Epic, but with the publishing of Stardew Valley, they became pretty well known among the Indie-Community. And Wargroove is successful as hell currently. It's not like it's a one man studio who is still creating it's own game and is complaining about Sonys lack of support.

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Yeah, obviously they don't bring in Epic-like numbers (who does right now other than maaaaybe Apex?), but Chucklefish is bringing a lot of $$$ to Sony.

 

[Herey]

Does crossplay actually hurt their bottom line that much, especially if, like he suggests, not many use it?
I just can't get my head around how they don't just fully open up, or at least how long it's taking to get there.

 

[Carolina Reaper]

Shawn Layden and Jim Ryan... what a bright future.

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Yeah, I'm filled with confidence that these dumbasses will handle the PS5 well.

 

[Deleted member 21]

I mean who is Chucklefish?
Shawn Layden or anyone probably never heard of them and neither did most gamers so it doesn't matter if they don't support it for these games.

They don't give a fart about these small indie studios.

Click to shrink...

 

[srtrestre]

Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

Click to shrink...

Thank you for putting in the work. Must be frustrating when you hit a brick wall like that.

 

[ghostcrew]

If I'm not mistaken Sony gets a 30% cut on all mtx purchases correct? I thought they didn't want cross play/cross progress because they don't want you spending money in another ecosystem and playing with purchased items later on ps4. It makes business sense but I still feel it's short sighted and halting progress.

Click to shrink...

They supported PC/PS4 cross-play from day one and let you spend money on purchases on PC and then use on PS4. So I don't believe this.

 

[Netherscourge]

Sony will shift gears so fast if Microsoft gets out of the gate Next-Gen with a nice lead.

If you lock yourself into your own garden, that garden becomes a tomb.

 

[Angst]

Any chance we can ping this to Shawn? Let's get some pressure going onto Cross-Play especially with a huge new game like Apex Legends put... If Forrnite and Rocket can have it so can the others, let's go boys

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I tweeted to him about it. Would be nice to at least get some clarification on his comments that its "on the devs"

 

[Theorry]

Lol was he thinking what was going to happen. The devs are very vocal about it and then he straight up lies. You think those vocal devs wont call you out?

 

[The Artisan]

it's also right above the reply box on mobile.

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I'm on mobile too. If a post is quoted in the OP in the future just bit the "arrow" in the quotes and it should take you to the post.

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This whole thread is worth reading through coz cross play is very important to me