Amazing to not see this moment as a damning indictment of this country and its electoral system and instead a moment to push #VoteBlueNoMatterWho. If so many people are gung ho about electing a rapist, they can do it without me.
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Shaming people into voting for an "alleged" rapist is disgusting and shows your privilege (and it doesn't bring people to the polls)
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Amazing to not see this moment as a damning indictment of this country and its electoral system and instead a moment to push #VoteBlueNoMatterWho. If so many people are gung ho about electing a rapist, they can do it without me.
The hope for Biden to succeed was faint but this new information makes it feel impossible. Bracing for 4 more years of Trump's swamp. Not trying to shame people, just feeling like the future is bleak.
I'm saying others will shame those that don't vote.
Not me, I don't even live in America.
But others will, and I think as time goes by if Trump does win people who sat out will probably feel some regret.
Maybe not though, I don't know.
If you don't want to vote, for whatever reason, it's your choice as I said, you don't have to answer to any of us.
Under our current voting system that would be a wasted vote. In our current landscape voting for Biden or voting for Trump means you're doing more than just voting for that singular person. I think that's what posters like Mauricio_Magus & Leona Lewis are pointing out.
And to the OP this doesn't show your privilege, but rather our lack of options.
I really hope that the shaming attitudes around here stop, its massively tone deaf at best to a lot of victims of sexual assault
Yes, but he's better for some reason
The policy of finding your own health insurance looking great with so many people unemployed
"but the kids at the border!" How do we know he's going to do shit with that when he can't even defend his previous deportations or cages. Sure it's worse, but is he the one who completely gets rid of it? Doubt it. It's just a more extreme version of what they were doing prior. Kind of gross when you see those policies exacerbated right?
LOCAL ELECTIONS
It's a protest vote, and it's better than voting for an old, white, misogynistic rapist, which applies to both of the presumed candidates.
I understand the reluctance. And I say this as someone who feels the Bern even today: I made my peace with this in 2016 with Bill Clinton. And I made my peace with the candidate herself, and her own record, including countless deaths.
Voting is having some say on a choice that will be made regardless. And if a rapist is going to be in the White House no matter what, I want some say on who it is. One rapist would be better than the other by far in terms of their effects on the country and the world.
And that's a sick calculus to make, but that's also the reality in America right now.
Voting is having some say on a choice that will be made regardless. And if a rapist is going to be in the White House no matter what, I want some say on who it is. One rapist would be better than the other by far in terms of their effects on the country and the world.
And that's a sick calculus to make, but that's also the reality in America right now.
This is a self fulfulling prophecy, Biden is only guaranteed to end up on the ballot because moderates are convinced he has already won and that attempting to prevent him from winning the primary so that the choice isn't between two rapists in the general is a more immoral choice than going to bat for the rapist thats on their team
The lack of understanding and hypocrisy some members of this forum are exhibiting in the wake of these allegations are disgusting. Seems that all the sensitivity towards women's issues displayed by some was merely political opportunism and a response to politicians they did not care for.
It's unfortunate, but voting for the "alleged" rapist will likely improve the quality of life for millions of individuals.
I hate it though. Fucking rapist Biden when we had Bernie and Warren running... FUCK.
I hate it though. Fucking rapist Biden when we had Bernie and Warren running... FUCK.
No one should be shamed into voting for Biden. His voting history is shit, he's borderline centrist, and now he's being accused of sexual assault. He's not someone to be proud to vote for.
However, he's the better of two terrible options. Does anyone here think Biden would push through a sexual assaulter to the supreme court like Trump did? Does anyone think the LGBTQ community is going to get shat on as much with Joe as they have with Donald? Do you believe Joe will talk up a caravan of people coming through the southern border as invaders and murderers?
This election isn't a giant douche vs a turd sandwich. It's a giant douche vs a turd sandwich dipped in diarrhea and sprinkled with shredded pieces of the constitution.
So, unless Bernie pulls off a miraculous win real fucking quick, vote Joe. Not because he's a decent human being, but because he can at the very least not be as big an asshole as Trump and so people you hopefully respect can be appointed to the supreme court or the justice department or to the vice presidency. Always try to vote the lesser of two evils, even if you struggle to sleep at night because of it.
However, he's the better of two terrible options. Does anyone here think Biden would push through a sexual assaulter to the supreme court like Trump did? Does anyone think the LGBTQ community is going to get shat on as much with Joe as they have with Donald? Do you believe Joe will talk up a caravan of people coming through the southern border as invaders and murderers?
This election isn't a giant douche vs a turd sandwich. It's a giant douche vs a turd sandwich dipped in diarrhea and sprinkled with shredded pieces of the constitution.
So, unless Bernie pulls off a miraculous win real fucking quick, vote Joe. Not because he's a decent human being, but because he can at the very least not be as big an asshole as Trump and so people you hopefully respect can be appointed to the supreme court or the justice department or to the vice presidency. Always try to vote the lesser of two evils, even if you struggle to sleep at night because of it.
They weren't successful though. Pete and Amy dropped out specifically because of how badly Biden blew them out in South Carolina and to a lesser extent Nevada. Amy didn't even win a single state in February. They didn't "clear the field for Biden for no reason", the reason was pretty plainly because they had no viability at all.
OP
OP
Simple, understand that there are reasons why people will not vote. Out of all of them, someone being traumatized by voting for a rapist (especially if that person is a victim themselves), is a perfectly valid reason as we should expect people to relieve their trauma. At that same token, I completely get why people are desperate to get people to vote blue. Trump is scary and has caused direct harm to women, POC, and the LGBT+ community.
Understand that it is a shitty situation all around and don't shame others for their decisions. It's probably going to be hard to avoid causing sparks because of how volatile the base is but just understand that everyone will make a choice for a variety of reasons.
Don't vote for "Biden" then.
Vote for the least privileged among us.
Full stop.
Now post one of civilians blown apart by Obama/Biden drone strikes. People need to stop pretending Trump is the only politician who hurts people. He is awful and should be physically removed from office, but leave upsetting images to the pro-life idiots.
Why are we ignoring the broad implications
Are the anxieties of those who fear what Trump will do with another 4 years any less abhorrent?
Even the OP goes only so far as to say... "Do not shame those who refuse to vote for him"
That doesnt mean empathy for those that are also affected in traumatic ways by everything Trump has done are any less valid
We keep putting all our individuals between a rock and a hard place when we all want the same thing and yet going around calling other people insensitive frauds because we are consdiering risks from different points of perspective?
Whats the cure to this exactly outside of what the OP has suggested huh?
Yeah, I look at parliamentary elections in the UK and Israel and think, man I could really go for some of that shit.
Basically. Unfortunately ill vote for him if it comes down to it. But i wont like it.
Who the fuck cares about what republicans want, or why its relevant to the OP posted in here. Kids were in cages under Biden's administration too. Hell he actively mocked immigrant families at a rally for daring to call him out for it. Its disgusting that in a time when rape allegations are coming to light here were acting like the primary still isnt ongoing and could still pick someone else but instead lets shame victims into voting for a rapist because he has a D next to his name.
This community should have stayed at the old place. That we found this home after moving on from someone for these exact kinds of allegations to only now try to protect a rapist candidate is sickening. If you want to beat Trump and not have a rapist be the democratic nominee we can collectively make that happen. Which seems like a far more productive and morally correct thing to do than shaming people into voting for a rapist who isnt even the nom yet.
We talk a lot about how cultish Trump's base is but the same could be said for the vote blue no matter who crowd, who during rape allegations are continuing to push that narrative. Its exposing a lot of evil sordid ideologies here.
I understand the sentiment of voting for Biden as the lesser evil compared to trump, but the multiple people using the kids in cages thing... Huh?!?!
Do you guys not know that Obama/Biden deported people out of here in massive numbers and put people in cages long before President Trump was a thing?
Do you guys not know that Obama/Biden deported people out of here in massive numbers and put people in cages long before President Trump was a thing?
Biden made those cages and the Obama administration broke records for deportations.
To put it candidly, the people who employ this shame tactic and invoke marginalized groups to browbeat a minority individual don't do it out of genuine concern for their well-being.
They do so because, whether consciously or subconsciously, they distinguish the livelihoods of the worse off as inferior to their own, and fear a Trump presidency brings them closer to living that reality. The irony is in their attempt to appear altruistic by appealing to said minority groups, they couldn't come off as any more selfish if they tried.
They do so because, whether consciously or subconsciously, they distinguish the livelihoods of the worse off as inferior to their own, and fear a Trump presidency brings them closer to living that reality. The irony is in their attempt to appear altruistic by appealing to said minority groups, they couldn't come off as any more selfish if they tried.
Meh, I think back to 2016 when I did my part to vote for Hilary even though some her policies in the past hurt the black community because I knew what was at stake. After the election I got to see some of my black friends and family members complain about Trump but they couldn't be bothered to turn out because it wasn't Obama anymore. You're not going to get a perfect candidate. Things are often complicated. This question often pertains to relationships, but it could apply here, so the question is, "Would you rather be right or happy?"
Making this about Bernie adds an agenda in a topic that is designed to elicit empathy to those affected by these allegations of Biden
You understand the problem there right?
theres not the perfect candidate and then theres a literal rapist
when your only options are an alleged rapist or a worse version of that that's also a bunch of other things and dangerously incompetent to boot closing your eyes and putting your fingers in your ears doesn't magically make someone that is none of those things become president instead
There are members of this forum who will still say "Yeah, but" when a woman has come out against Biden (and if you haven't watched or listened to the interview, I recommend doing so) in regards to sexual assault, something the Democratic party should take pride in distancing themselves from, but instead its all hands on deck for the accused.
Fact is, the primary isn't over. Biden needs to speak on this, the DNC does, and action needs to be taken. We don't have to choose between two different serial assaulters for who gets to lead the country for the next few years.
Saying that you are willing to hold your nose and vote for Biden in order to avoid a complete collapse of modern American society has nothing to do with whether or not you believe his accuser. For example I for one am willing to believe her until proven otherwise. However I also realize that if it comes down to Biden vs Trump then the choice is obvious. I'm gonna have go with the piece of shit that isn't a virulent racist that has actively tried to destroy the country and kill people (especially people of color) for the past 3 years. Not because I like the guy or because I WANT to vote for him, but because I have no damned choice in the matter due to how utterly fucked the American political system is.
If people don't want to vote for Biden then that's fine. Don't vote for him, but just be prepared for the distinct possibility that Trump wins the election and gets to stack the Supreme Court. Because while Democrats may have the moral fortitude to abstain from voting for a piece of shit you better fucking believe that Republicans don't have those same scruples. They will show up in droves to vote for their glorious orange racist regardless of what happens in these coming months.
US population is 300 million and we can't compromise on just having a candidate who isn't a rapist my god.
Does it matter if we lose no matter what?
I suppose the third option is a dummy presidency where Trump twiddles his thumbs for another 4 years hampered?
Are we entertaining this so that we may keep a clear conscience?
UK has first past the post and Israel is fucked up beyond relief.
No system is perfect but you can look to plenty of European multi-party systems and see that they are clearly preferrable to America's bullshit. A mixed member proportional parliamentary system or a presidential system with run-off elections and/or ranked ballots would be a huge improvement. Either of those would allow for more parties and strengthen democracy.
As were seeing with literal fucking rape allegations, its not as bad when its done by someone with a D next to their name.
I don't think it will matter because in a race between two rapists the incumbent will almost definitely win. The DNC is going to hand Trump his second term and it won't be the fault of people who don't want to vote for a rapist OR those who will hold their nose in an attempt to oust Trump.
I'm not sure it's so simple, though. Part of the conversation goes into the consequences of one's feelings and trauma, on both sides of the equation. I know people understand that, but it doesn't broker much discussion I feel like? It's almost impossible to separate the greater discussion from the individuals discussing it. Hell, I've seen people that are both survivors of sexual assault go for each other's throats over this.
Maybe it's just one of those things that won't have any satisfactory conclusion at the end of the day because it inevitably turns into, "You have the facts, do with them as you will and leave people alone if they feel differently." But I feel like that doesn't really change anything, or even put us on the road to change. It doesn't broker empathy.
He probably won't, I mean what are you going to do if he doesn't? Not vote for the democratic candidate 4 years from now? If Biden wins the primary and the general now, it proves that the Democrats don't even need to be better than the republicans to get voted in
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