Where should she stay, then? What country needs to keep her? Or should she just be set adrift in the ocean?
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Shamima Begum wins right to return to UK
- Thread starter It’s Time To Go
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They shouldn't, but i don't trust our government with terrorist threats inside our own walls. I agree she is our issue, she's a british citizen etc i just don't trust our ability to keep people in our own country safe first and foremost. How can we be sure she wouldn't be a threat down the line? Do we lock her up for ever?
That's not reason enough though to deny the basic human rights of a person.
Any doubts you have on the goverment and security forces keeping people safe shouldn't play its part on whether someone loses their basic rights as a citizen.
Good. I don't think the precedent should be set whereby the Government can just withdraw your citizenship rights without being challenged.
She should be allowed back and tried in a UK court for her crimes.
She should be allowed back and tried in a UK court for her crimes.
She joined ISIS, a terrorist organisation. You don't consider that to be a threat?
She's not a member now, AFAIK. There are some genuinely dangerous people in the UK with terrorist affiliations, but I find it hard to believe Begum would be one of them.
some of the replies in here are extremely bizarre and shocking.
does she need to be a member? she went over and joined them. if she's coming back then it should be straight into prison.
There are lots of crimes you can apply what-ifs to. I think if we applied your logic then almost no criminal would ever leave prison because of their past actions and perceived future threats.
Why? Because of her high profile? Or her age? (ie she now knows better) or what exactly?
The evidence is that she was groomed as a child. She deserves a fair trial with, you know, the evidence, so that she can give her side. I don't condone terrorism in the slightest but everyone has the right to a fair trial - that's one of the most fundamental things that separates a state with the rule of law from organisations like ISIS.
Because she was groomed as a child, it seems. Maybe she is dangerous, but there needs to be a trial with the evidence.
Not necessarily, but in some events people should be locked up for life. Joining an organisation like ISIS where there atrocities are publicly known, it's not like you don't know what your getting yourself in to. It's not like you killed someone in self defence. It takes time and effort, planning etc with the ultimate aim to cause terror through killing innocent people by any means necessary. You don't get to redeem yourself for those decisions. You don't get to say sorry i fucked up.
and that's just me.
She isn't a child now. She was interviewed and still holds the belief that for example the Manchester bombings were justified. These are views she holds as an adult. You tie that in with her affiliation with ISIS and it's clear she would pose a threat.
If you're groomed you don't suddenly lose those indoctrinated views when you become an adult.
I'm not gonna lie and say that I was particularly concerned about her like many who joined ISIS. But I will say that her entire story has had a level of disgusting revelry from the public and more importantly the press. I mean if you ask a gang member who's locked up with other gang members with a child whether she regrets joining said gang of course she'd say no she doesn't because she'd say that cause she fears for the life of her child.
The fact that her innocent child died is and was a travesty. One that shouldn't have been allowed to happen.
The fact that her innocent child died is and was a travesty. One that shouldn't have been allowed to happen.
A child can be groomed into sexual acts, drug trafficking but can't be groomed by terrorists? I don't understand that logic.
I don't think she should be stripped of her citizenship either, but she does need some sort of testing. Bigotry from religion has no place in modern society.
Anyone remember Lisa Smith and Lorna Moore? Two women who joined ISIS and managed to get back to Ireland with barely a fuss from the press. They were adults when they joined ISIS and afaik neither were jailed (latter got 2 years suspended). Our press reported it but you can see the difference in reporting is night and day. I wonder what's so different about Begum. Just another day on this shitty little racist island.
Thanks, unfortunately I think both my words and your words have fallen on deaf ears. The mod you are quoting does not seem to care in the slightest, which is why they swiftly exited this thread without returning once they received criticism for their shitty views on this subject.
There is no logic to it. People hear ISIS and lose their fucking minds. There is also a very obvious racial component to this case. If she was white she wouldn't have received the same vitriol.
You mistake not caring with not wanting to engage with somebody who can't discuss civilly and instead makes nasty accusations of others. I respect your opinion even if I disagree with it, I just won't give you the slanging match you seem to crave.
User Banned (3 Days): Hostility over a series of posts
You realise what you just said is tone policing right? The other user being passionate shouldn't prevent you from engaging in the argument. "Nasty accusations" lol. Grow up
This isn't about "tone policing". I am well within my right to disengage from a conversation that I feel is toxic and unpleasant and I don't care for having a back and forth over this if there is insults and no mutual respect.
You wouldn't talk to people like this in person (at least I hope you don't) so why do you feel emboldened to do it online?
I would happily tell you to grow up in person lol don't project at me
Don't lecture me about civility while advocating for a life sentence for a heavily abused child bride, that's both absurd and insulting. I don't respect your opinion, because there is nothing to respect about it. I don't want a 'slanging match', what I do want is for you to not advocate for something so despicable and I'd appreciate if you moderated some of the victim blaming posts in this thread. I don't think you are going to do so, because you seem to be in agreement with them.
A man yelling at a woman telling her to grow up because she wasn't comfortable with the level of hostility is a really great mental image, thanks.
There's a discussion to be had regarding responsibility and rehabilitation but it's not going to happen if you call those who disagree with you despicable.
Ngl I had no idea you were a woman but you're still tone policing so 🤷♂️
Then the focus should be on rehabilitation and deprogramming, not this prison for life people are pushing for
Your suggestions that she 'had free will' while being regularly raped and held captive on threat of death, and that she should spend the rest of her life in prison, were despicable. What about those sentiments suggests "I'm interested in having a discussion"?
This forums is strai
Yeah, the islamophobia here is amazing.
Remember that other thread about Denmark imposing certain rules and regulations on majority Muslim populations (aka ghettos)?
One mod actually thought it was a good idea, lmao 😂
User Banned (3 Days): Hostility
You literally came into the thread calling for a life sentence for a victim of grooming who also happened to be a minor at the time, that's pretty damn despicable. Somehow I doubt that someone who wants them locked up for life is interested in discussing rehabilitation at all. Now you're playing the victim because these people who are so nasty called you out on your shitty opinion.
No you see she's an islamic terrorist mastermind and will bring the downfall of the U.K. if they let her back in.
Yep, she's going to bring the queen to her knees but really post to really dumb in here. Like 15 year olds are very stupid right like really fucking stupid that's why they can't do shit without their parents in most countries right cuz they're so stupid. And joining Isis is something a stupid 15 year old would do . What she needs isn't life imprisonment that's just useless thing especially for situation like this she needs rehab and proper help I don't know why some people in here are arguing for latter.
People having the temerity to call out shitty behaviour from a mod is apparently a no-no here.
Absolutely embarrassing.
And it should go without saying that any action taken against Begum if she returns to the UK must account for the risk she presently poses and the possibility of rehabilitation.
She is the UK's responsibility. She should have a fair trial and it be detemrined what steps need to be taken to rehabililtate her and whether she should be in prison.
Is anybody who calls out a shitty opinion from another member now going to be banned? Or only if they call out a mod?
Is anybody who calls out a shitty opinion from another member now going to be banned? Or only if they call out a mod?
Is there any source for this claim that isn't the Daily Mail, or another newspaper (nearly always tabloid and right wing) that is reporting on it by quoting the Daily Mail? I have tried to google it and these are the only kind of articles that I can find - so I dont think this should really be stated on this forum as a fact given the way the UK media loves reporting on Begum's story specifically and Muslims in general, and especially not by a moderator
And yeah, some of the bans in this thread so far have been absolute BS - predictably this thread followed the line of the last one and showed how bloodthirsty this website gets for punitive justice despite being supposedly progressive
What is disheartening is the thinly veiled moralising by turning an extremely complex issue into a case of black and white. She is a victim, but she also supported, and in some ways owing to her lack of remorse, and own statements, continues to support a murderous death cult that committed genocidal acts.
No amount of abuse absolves her of her own actions, so she must be held accountable.
It is not despicable, or islamophobic to not feel a great deal of sympathy for someone who could "what about" a bombing in Manchester. She from various reports, actively participated in enforcement of ISIS ideologies, and helped stitch other humans in to suicide vests, that couldn't be removed.
No amount of abuse can ever absolve the responsibility she bears for her actions and as stated, seemingly continued support for the destruction of "enemies of Islam"
That said, she should be brought home to face trial for her actions, and if possible, work to reintegrate her back into society. I find it hard to believe she'd ever be able to do so though, given her new born son, who bears none of the crimes she committed, died as a direct result of being abandoned by the UK Government. I honestly can't see how she would be able to ever forget that.
No amount of abuse absolves her of her own actions, so she must be held accountable.
It is not despicable, or islamophobic to not feel a great deal of sympathy for someone who could "what about" a bombing in Manchester. She from various reports, actively participated in enforcement of ISIS ideologies, and helped stitch other humans in to suicide vests, that couldn't be removed.
No amount of abuse can ever absolve the responsibility she bears for her actions and as stated, seemingly continued support for the destruction of "enemies of Islam"
That said, she should be brought home to face trial for her actions, and if possible, work to reintegrate her back into society. I find it hard to believe she'd ever be able to do so though, given her new born son, who bears none of the crimes she committed, died as a direct result of being abandoned by the UK Government. I honestly can't see how she would be able to ever forget that.
Yeah I mean none of these poses what I consider hostile and if they were they are noting like what , we see worse between users in review threads.
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