Absolutely the right decision. The concept of someone having the citizenship of their birth nation "revoked" for their actions is so fucking bizarre.
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Shamima Begum wins right to return to UK
- Thread starter It’s Time To Go
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The same people that say Greta Thunberg is a stupid, manipulated kid, reading someone else's script are the same people that claim a 15 year old Begum in no way could have been groomed.
Good decision. Baffling that a lot of people let the tories off the hook for it, but I guess that's how it goes.
True.
You don't need to pity her, but everyone who supports the rule of law should be appalled by the way the Tories handled Begum's case. She was a British citizen and everyone - everyone - has the right to a fair trial.
I don't in any way condone what Begum is alleged to have done, but as a lawyer I absolutely despise the government's actions. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.
And the fact that the government claimed it was "too dangerous" to rescue her - again, British citizen - baby from the camp she was staying in was ridiculous, given that journalists had no problem getting in there and interviewing her.
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This thread pretty much sums up my thoughts.
Btw people have their citizenships revoked all the time after being born in the UK. If you're non-white in this country you're at the mercy of the home office. Not to detract from the matter at hand but this should add context to the situation. Revoking citizenship is a practice that should be stopped altogether it's inhumane and an unjust double-jeopardy.
London-born twins face deportation to different countries | Immigration and asylum | The Guardian
Exclusive: Darrell and Darren Roberts face deportation to countries they have never visited
amp.theguardian.com
This.
People love to overlook her age and the fact that she was practically groomed.
Good. Regardless of any feelings on her (she was groomed) the government should need be allowed to set a precedent whereby they can strip citizens of their citizenship.
As for her, she was groomed so should be allowed some leeway, but at the same time needs to go straight to a courtroom the moment she steps off that plane. Not that she can't be rehabilitated but it's idiotic to let her roam free once she comes back.
Ofcourse, had she not originally told the news how much she doesn't regret joining ISIS back when this originally blew up, she'd have been back ages ago.
As for her, she was groomed so should be allowed some leeway, but at the same time needs to go straight to a courtroom the moment she steps off that plane. Not that she can't be rehabilitated but it's idiotic to let her roam free once she comes back.
Ofcourse, had she not originally told the news how much she doesn't regret joining ISIS back when this originally blew up, she'd have been back ages ago.
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I know that, I'm clearly not blaming her. The U.K. government don't give a fuck about that. The image of the SAS storming in to save her is about the most unlikely thing I can imagine from modern Britain.
Good - she's a victim.
She was groomed as a child on British Soil and went overseas. It's on the UK gov to bring her home.
She was groomed as a child on British Soil and went overseas. It's on the UK gov to bring her home.
Some nations provide ancestral origin rights as a path to citizenship, despite an individual not knowing or asking for it, can be punished for it. This Tory law has weaponised that as grounds to remove citizenship, it effectively promotes second class citizen status for anyone with immigrant background.
UK ministers ignore pleas to return ‘innocent orphans’ from Syria
After last week’s Shamima Begum ruling, Home Office stays silent on rescue of minors from camps in the north-west of the country
www.theguardian.com
Why am I not surprised.
She's a sexual abuse victim, it's called grooming and she was repeatedly abused during her entire time under the control of ISIS. Every single person who posts saying she deserves to have her citizenship revoked, that they don't 'pity' her or 'no sympathy, or anything else to that effect needs to be banned for victim blaming. What happened to her happens to millions of teenagers globally every year, and usually it's done by abusers with far less power, reach, and resources than ISIS.
Seriously, how the fuck is it OK for people to post that shit about a teenage girl who was taken to another country to be repeatedly raped?
Seriously, how the fuck is it OK for people to post that shit about a teenage girl who was taken to another country to be repeatedly raped?
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She went to join her sexual abusers who manipulated her into a sexual relationship as a minor, which is LITERALLY WHAT GROOMING IS. Why the fuck does the fact that it was a terrorist organization grooming her and not some random abuser change anything about that? When she got there they repeatedly sexually abused her. You people disgust me.
She should have been let back in with her children before they all died in the refugee camp.
She's a British citizen and should have faced our justice system and served a life sentence here but this scumbag government let 3 innocent children die just to appease the gammons of this shit country.
She's a British citizen and should have faced our justice system and served a life sentence here but this scumbag government let 3 innocent children die just to appease the gammons of this shit country.
Served a life sentence for being a sexual abuse victim as a minor at the hands of ISIS? No wonder people aren't being banned in this thread for blatant victim blaming, when mods are coming in here to do the same. Thinking she deserves a life sentence for what was done to her makes you just as much as a 'gammon' as anyone else.
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Alright, I'll make my point clearer: I don't think it should be ignored that she was groomed. However, the entire thing should not be dismissed just because she was groomed. There has to be some level of accountability. The fact that it was a terrorist organisation does make a difference. The guys who fighting for them who were groomed into joining didn't get the same mercy when they were killed.
It was the right move to let her back in. Now she just needs to be watched indefinitely to ensure public safety.
So what accountability do you want then? Five years of rape and abuse, followed by being abandoned by her country in a refugee camp where her child died. Constant smearing in the UK's trash print media, she will never live a normal life, not just because of the suffering she endured from the years of sexual abuse and death of her child, but because of the insane level of demonization she has received. What is 'fair' in that context? What more suffering needs to be inflicted on her for you to be satisfied?
Yeah if you are talking about teenage boys being coerced into joining ISIS as child soldiers and then dying that is also extremely horrible and wrong, I'm not sure how punishing a sexual abuse victim solves that problem.
You just gonna let those "no sympathy" posts stay up? Cause let me tell ya, as a victim of grooming and sexual abuse as a teenager it makes me feel real safe posting and interacting here. You're doing a great fucking job.
I am sorry that happened to you but I do not consider somebody who ran off to join ISIS and then during her time there recruited other young girls to the cause, joined the morality police in occupied territories and stitched suicide bombers into their explosive vests to be a victim and I won't apologise for that view. I have no more sympathy for her than I do other teenagers or adolescents who also committed atrocities and victimised others of their own free will.
... but she remains a British citizen and should be in prison here.
Unfortunate situation all around. I'm glad she won her right to come back to the UK so she can get her due in a court of law.
The funny thing about this situation is that we not be talking about it if the allied forces had lost and have been defeated.
The understanding the true nature of the situation is way above our heads (especially for those of us who don't hold international law/law degrees).
Replying to this, with this, since I share the same opinion as Windrunner here:
Not a UK citizen so I'm an outsider looking in on this issue I guess. But from what I read about this story it reads like she needs to come home to the UK and be sentenced to jail along with extensive therapy in order to get her life back together.
Unless of course you believe prison should be a way to punish people in society and not a way to reform them. At which point all I'm gonna say to that idea is yikes dog
Unless of course you believe prison should be a way to punish people in society and not a way to reform them. At which point all I'm gonna say to that idea is yikes dog
Do me a favor and save your condolences. She was groomed into joining ISIS, so that they could abuse her, which they did repeatedly. I guess you'd support jailing many of Epstein's victims then? Because he had many of the girls he abused 'recruit' other girls for him to abuse. Of course, they aren't being charged with anything here because they did that recruiting under duress, being controlled by their abuser and his adult accomplices. Shamima Begum was being regularly raped and was held captive by ISIS. Trying to leave would lead to her execution, and she was 15 years old. Any 'recruiting' she did, any bomb sewing, was similarly done under duress, in an environment of constant abuse and the threat of death. What free will exists in abusive environments like that for children actively being brutalized?
Some people here need to start asking themselves why they want to see her punished so much and what that says about their character
UK prisons are not and have never been houses of reform. That is not going to change by sending Shamima Begum to prison
Seems like the right move, she should be allowed back, tried for her crimes and sentenced for whatever prison length deemed right. I also don't think there is any realistic chance of her disappearing anywhere, she basically has nowhere to go. Whatever happened to her friends BTW?
In the Epstein case they aren't getting charged with anything because according to the deal Epstein got with the government any named or unnamed co-conspirator was granted total immunity.
That was a decade ago, he continued to abuse girls after that and his adult accomplices continued to assist him in doing so. That's why Maxwell is going to prison now (finally). He was still having girls he abused find other girls to abuse for him, the Miami Herald article covers all of this and interviews many of his victims. Charging his victims with anything would've been such a disgusting miscarriage of justice, not to mention sparking massive public outcry. You think in a post-Cyntoia Brown pardon world that disgusting victim blaming garbage from the justice system would fly in such a high profile case?
There is a mod literally doing that in this thread right now so shit hasn't changed at all.
Yeah fitting its intended purpose :(
That's why it's so weird to see people clamoring for her to be sent there
It stems from a belief that we create a better society through punitive justice. Also that people want problems out of sight out of mind.
Wow, what an idiotic rationale for stripping her citizenship. "We don't want a terrorist so, Bangladesh, it's YOUR problem now because of baseless reasons!"
Sense has prevailed..... The implications of being to just strip you of your citizenship cos you've been bad is quite frightening.
Let justice play out and give her a fair trial... Otherwise we are no better than ISIS
Let justice play out and give her a fair trial... Otherwise we are no better than ISIS
I'm just saying how things really went. Whether we agree with it or not is not relevant imo. Acosta negotiated that deal in the first place and we will never know the truth. You are optimistic if you think Ghislaine Maxwell won't get away with everything. Judicial columnists seem to agree the evidence against her is rather weak (3 testimonies basically) and that she can claim she didn't know their age. She will also try to play the immunity card from above. It will be pretty interesting if they tear it as some pretty big names are on there according to the Netflix documentary.
You can definitely be abused by a monster and commit crimes and not get away with it. Sometimes the line between victim is abuser is really thin like Karla Homolka's story.
If the tabloid story is true about how she recruited other girls in ISIS, acted as a moral police and even stitched bombs to suicide bombers then she will have to face trial while taking into accounts of her circumstances. She's definitely a UK citizen and should have been extracted before her child had to suffer and the UK will have to put her on trial.
How can you claim duress when you wasn't there?
Also, I remember watching her first interview after the post defeat of ISIS, she wasn't really remorseful and could linger some hatred for the UK.
Because multiple teenage girls who were groomed from western countries and tried to escape were killed for doing so. The abuses that happened to these girls are well documented.
People, check the post counts of the member before you engage with them. There are individuals who are sad enough to want to shitpost but don't want to risk their main account. Apologies to new members who aren't bad faith twats, but my rule of thumb is that if someone is posting reactionary shit with a 30 post account, they are probably not worth engaging with
She literally joined a terrorist organisation, knowing full well that it was a terrorist organisation and the attrocities that the organisation had committed up to that point. She knowingly and willingly contributed to the terrorist cause then explicitly stated that she didn't regret any of it after the organisation collapsed and she was no longer under any supposed duress to support them and their actions.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting her to stand trial for that.
What if they're posting reactionary shit with a mod account?
Yeah she 'joined' a terrorist group because she was groomed by a bunch of adult men so they could sexually abuse her. This is textbook victim blaming.
User banned (3 days): hostility
Fuck off is it.
She knew exactly what she was doing. The explanation of grooming can only go so far. She still actively went to join them knowing full well what they did and what they stood for, that they were murderers and terrorists, and she actively contributed to their cause.
Once she was away from them she stated she had no regrets in any of it.
You can Fuck right off trying to excuse any criticism of her actions as 'victim blaming'
Then that's a different argument. However, I don't see any posts labelled as mods posting in this thread as of now? My point was that it's a good rule of thumb to assume that very low post counts chatting absolute shit are not worth engaging with.
The explanation of grooming is literally WHY she went there, because adult men were grooming her to be a child bride. If your criticism of her is that she went there, and you know she went there because she was groomed for the purposes of sexual abuse, then you are victim blaming her.
I'm well aware that ISIS are terrorists and murderers, it turns out that groups who systematically murder and commit terrorist acts also systematically target and abuse teenage girls. Why this is so hard for some of you to fathom, that terrorist groups are also sexually abusing women and teenage girls en masse in addition to their other terrorist activities, is beyond me.
There is a mod post saying she should spend the rest of her life in prison right on this page, so I'm guessing you didn't look very hard.
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