Sexual Harassment Going Too Far

[Ketkat]

So that posters so's mom is lying ?

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It doesn't have to mean that she's lying, there could be a whole range of reasons as to why she thinks that. But, nationwide, it's very uncommon and doesn't happen that much. Like, we do have statistics on this kind of thing and it's not this crazy epidemic now that actual creeps are getting ousted through #MeToo.

 

[Noctis]

OP keep these convos out of the work places, it could cause unnecessarily discord.

I say this because you could get along with a co-worker inside the confines of the workplace and then you start asking about their views on particular issues and once you know and don't agree with it, it makes the work experience a drag.

Before I get dog pilled that I'm somehow censoring the convo of sexual harassment that's a Hard NO, because fuck that. But if you want harmony at the work place since you work with a variety of people keep things simple.

 

[Mr. X]

See, when men say "I don't meet with students alone with the door closed", what I hear is "I think women are either hysterical enough to claim anything is sexual assault, or lying crazy bitches who will make false allegations for no reason". So uh, that's groovy I guess.

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High schoolers are at peak pervy weirdo stage.

 

[MrToughPants]

I work as a teacher and I'm scared shitless it went so far I don't meet with pupils alone anymore do discuss stuff. So it kind of took a new turn but people who say things like "you can't do anything anymore" have probably no idea what they're talking about and just want to say stupid shit.

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I was substitute at a French immersion school and the students would come hug me and get too close all the time. I'd be pulling them off me asap or throwing my arms up in the air. I'd have to tell them it was inapproriate to be making physical contact, these were 5-7 year olds who didn't understand. Shit stressed me out despite loving to work with the children. I wanted to be a teacher but gave up that idea with all the stigma and paranoia.

 

[KingK]

Yeah, nearly everybody I've interacted with IRL that brought up the subject, male or female, says that anti-feminist, "me too has gone too far" bullshit. I also feel like a minority in my workplace for believing climate change and not being an anti-vaxxer. I work for a major bank in Indianapolis, in a professional setting. People are just so fucking stupid, I feel like I'm living in an alternate reality sometimes and start losing hope.

 

[ZackieChan]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhh myyyyyyyyyyyyyyy gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood

it took me less than one second to google this: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45565684

Also very important to keep in mind while seeing those already incredibly low percentages:


So excuse me as I say it is hysterical of men to constantly trot this shit out.

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When you treat it as a statistic, yes, 2-10% seems low.
But that's anywhere from 2 to 10 actual humans who have to deal with it out of each hundred. Some cautious behavior is understandable.
None of that is meant to belittle the horror of the 90 or so actual cases or those that are unreported. They are obviously terrible. But I don't blame people for being cautious of any non-zero chance of a false accusation by taking precautionary measures.

 

[BossAttack]

At a hospital. The woman I talked to is a phlebotomist, (draws people's blood). When you draw someone's blood the accidental boob graze does happen but like I tried to tell her, I would think you have to really do something intentionally to worry about getting in trouble from something like that at work. I would like to think anyways.

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I meant more like what area, liberal or conservative?

 

[Francesco]

It's actually very uncommon. The amount of sexual assault or rape cases that are actually reported are already way lower than the number of incidents that happen, and even then, the false accusation rate is lower than that of other crimes.

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From the experience I have heard about, it's because charges are dropped as soon as the prosecution realizes the facts are not straight. No point in going to court.

It wouldn't be hard to believe that the false accusations are lower than other crimes though.

Still, I understand paranoid teachers.

 

[Hogendaz85]

I just need to put this here but someone very close to me was raped. She was simply on her way home after class in the evening when it happened. It's has absolutely devastated her and changed her life causing anxiety and worsening symptoms of depression.

She is not too happy with all of the me too stuff. Its the smaller interactions that some are blowing up and bringing forward with me too. Someone she knows did a me too thing about how a guy said some things that were inappropriate.

I don't know I can't accurately express her thoughts on this in a forum but maybe some of you will understand and i for one do feel like there is a very fine line. Some things that happen or we here about are absolutely terrible and should be brought to light while others not so much.

 

[Ernest]

When someone says "you can't do anything" for fear of being branded as sexual harassment, I'd ask for specific instances.
Usually this is someone who's typically entitled whining about their entitlement eroding, and nothing to do with actual harassment.

 

[Pankratous]

I work with all women. We recently had to do a mandatory sexual harassment course at work. It was treated as a complete joke by every single one of them and is still occasionally brought up in conversation as a punchline. I've been working with these women for the past 15yrs and I was not shocked at the response.

Interesting side note: We had to have the training because our female CEO was fucking around on her husband with a coworker who was also married. They were both fired. They both divorced their spouses and were married as if to prove a point.

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I don't see how what they were doing lead to a sexual harassment course if it wasn't harassment...

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

From the experience I have heard about, it's because charges are dropped as soon as the prosecution realizes the facts are not straight. No point in going to court.

It wouldn't be hard to believe that the false accusations are lower than other crimes though.

Still, I understand paranoid teachers.

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Traumatic things can lead people to have clouded memories of the interaction. Just because something doesn't go to trial doesn't make it a false accusation.

 

[Kinggroin]

Wtf people. Is false accusations THAT prominent that you're literally paralyzed to socialize?

I don't think I've ever had to worry about this shit as long as I act like a respectable human being. A time and a place and common sense.

Outside people being better held accountable for their actions, the courtship game isn't much different than it used to be.

 

[Biggersmaller]

I just need to put this here but someone very close to me was raped. She was simply on her way home after class in the evening when it happened. It's has absolutely devastated her and changed her life causing anxiety and worsening symptoms of depression.

She is not too happy with all of the me too stuff. Its the smaller interactions that some are blowing up and bringing forward with me too. Someone she knows did a me too thing about how a guy said some things that were inappropriate.

I don't know I can't accurately express her thoughts on this in a forum but maybe some of you will understand and i for one do feel like there is a very fine line. Some things that happen or we here about are absolutely terrible and should be brought to light while others not so much.

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The people who have been critical at all of Me Too in my circle have ALL been women. The hand wringing and pearl clutching have all been men.

When it comes to identity politics, I listen to those I know and respect (who aren't MAGA crazy people).

 

[Betty]

I just need to put this here but someone very close to me was raped. She was simply on her way home after class in the evening when it happened. It's has absolutely devastated her and changed her life causing anxiety and worsening symptoms of depression.

She is not too happy with all of the me too stuff. Its the smaller interactions that some are blowing up and bringing forward with me too. Someone she knows did a me too thing about how a guy said some things that were inappropriate.

I don't know I can't accurately express her thoughts on this in a forum but maybe some of you will understand and i for one do feel like there is a very fine line. Some things that happen or we here about are absolutely terrible and should be brought to light while others not so much.

Click to shrink...

Sorry to hear about your friend, and the founder of this whole movement actually reaffirms the point your making, saying it's about sexual assault first and foremost, rather than every single element of harassment or societal ills.

What really doesn't help is the media trying to portray #MeToo as some plot against men, when the founder herself notes that she also includes male survivors of assault to be counted as part of the movement.

 

[HylianSeven]

I saw a ton of people claiming that women just "make up things to ruin a man's reputation" during the Kavanaugh hearings. There was the "You can't even say anything anymore!" rhetoric of course. I try to call that shit out and unfortunately the don't fucking listen, especially since they wanted Kavanaugh to be confirmed.

It really isn't that difficult. I'm socially awkward as all hell, and I have had zero concern that I will "accidentally" sexually harass someone. It's been mentioned in this thread, but power dynamics are important, but also where that doesn't come into play (just to coworkers, neither the manager of the other) you just have to be appropriate. If they say no, leave it at that.

 

[THE210]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhh myyyyyyyyyyyyyyy gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood

it took me less than one second to google this: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45565684

Also very important to keep in mind while seeing those already incredibly low percentages:


So excuse me as I say it is hysterical of men to constantly trot this shit out.

Click to shrink...

Why are people equating false accusations about sexual assualt and rape to false accusations about sexual harassment? Can you point to numbers about acutal work place sexual harassment claims. I'M not saying they are going to be high but I'd think they would be higher then sexual assualt since it doesn't necessarily involve major transgressions and office politics can get really bad.

 

[Nothing Loud]

See, when men say "I don't meet with students alone with the door closed", what I hear is "I think women are either hysterical enough to claim anything is sexual assault, or lying crazy bitches who will make false allegations for no reason". So uh, that's groovy I guess.

Click to shrink...

This is naive. Students have done abominable things to try to have vengeance against instructors for grades. At my school there was a guy who catfished a professor on a dating app and then blackmailed him. He jumped off the northside garage to his death. And students have the worst mental health. If I was a university instructor, I would be very keenly aware of what kinds of situations I may find myself with a student.

In a similar vein, my husband is gay, and he's an elementary school teacher. You bet that he's very careful in a school environment. A lot of moms and teachers may want you fired or think you're a child pervert just because you're gay.

 

[Francesco]

Traumatic things can lead people to have clouded memories of the interaction. Just because something doesn't go to trial doesn't make it a false accusation.

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Not the way I heard it from a juvenile lawyer.

 

[Robin]

So that posters so's mom is lying ?

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Statistics trump anecdotal evidence and how people think and feel things are, not that hard to understand.

 

[Volimar]

Why are people equating false accusations about sexual assualt and rape to false accusations about sexual harassment? Can you point to numbers about acutal work place sexual harassment claims. I'M not saying they are going to be high but I'd think they would be higher then sexual assualt since it doesn't necessarily involve major transgressions and office politics can get really bad.

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Read what they're replying to.

"So's mom works in juvenile court and it's not uncommon to see girls lying about rape, unfortunately."

 

[Dodongo]

I don't spend much time worrying about it, because I know I'm not gonna harass anybody.

 

[Nothing Loud]

Statistics trump anecdotal evidence and how people think and feel things are, not that hard to understand.

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Statistics are important but it doesn't change the fact that revenge or poor mental health accusations do happen, albeit uncommonly, and the stakes of which are high.

I mentioned in another thread that my friend is a med student and his ex-fiancé accused him of rape when she was angry that he called off the engagement. I'm not going to get in the details, but everyone concluded she almost definitely was lying to ruin his life. I believe there was an investigation. The stress was enormous for both of them. His entire medical career could have been ruined.

So yes, statistically it's rare for false allegations to unfold, but it happens, and it shouldn't be disregarded. The stakes are high.

 

[Robin]

Statistics are important but it doesn't change the fact that revenge or poor mental health accusations do happen, albeit uncommonly, and the stakes of which are high.

I mentioned in another thread that my friend is a med student and his ex-fiancé accused him of rape when she was angry that he called off the engagement. I'm not going to get in the details, but everyone concluded she almost definitely was lying to ruin his life. His entire medical career could have been ruined.

So yes, statistically it's rare for false allegations to unfold, but it happens, and it shouldn't be disregarded. The stakes are high.

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It happens, and those people should face consequences. It's still a false equivalency.

 

[SoH]

Statistics are important but it doesn't change the fact that revenge or poor mental health accusations do happen, albeit uncommonly, and the stakes of which are high.

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And people who come into threads like these and push false accusation concerns are forwarding an effort to discredit real accusations whether they mean to or not.

If your primary concern isn't the dramatically statistically larger number of situations that go unreported and unpunished and instead demanding we keep the much smaller number of liars in mind at all times you are working to discredit victims by seeding doubt unnecessarily.

 

[Philippo]

Yeah those are tone deaf people alright.

I don't know man, in my head "don't be a jerk and harrass women/other people" sounds so simple and so obvious, but you never know what other's concept of that same sentence is.

It's a shame that not everyone is able to effectively read a situation and understand what is allowed to do and what is not.

 

[Deleted member 19066]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhh myyyyyyyyyyyyyyy gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood

it took me less than one second to google this: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45565684

Also very important to keep in mind while seeing those already incredibly low percentages:


So excuse me as I say it is hysterical of men to constantly trot this shit out.

Click to shrink...

I just realized I've only seen statistics for false rape allegations. Anyone have any stats on sexual assault or harassment claims?

 

[TheCthultist]

I work as a teacher and I'm scared shitless it went so far I don't meet with pupils alone anymore do discuss stuff. So it kind of took a new turn but people who say things like "you can't do anything anymore" have probably no idea what they're talking about and just want to say stupid shit.

Click to shrink...

Likewise, but I've given up trying to change the way I handle that stuff like working with a student one-on-one. If I'm going to get called out for something, it's just going to happen. I'm just going to continue not being a creep and hope for the best.

I had a girl in class a few weeks ago who, when I told her to put her phone away during a test, began screaming "get away from me, stop touching me, this is assault!" as loud as she could so teachers from the rooms around mine could hear. And to clarify, she began screaming this while I was an entire row of desks away in full view of the entire class... so if its going to happen, it's unavoidable; I just make sure I'm not actually doing anything to warrant it and hope it works out.

I don't know man, in my head "don't be a jerk and harrass women/other people" sounds so simple and so obvious, but you never know what other's concept of that same sentence is.

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It should be the most natural thing in the world and yet somehow tons of guys apparently can't seem to get figure that one out...

 

[VenomousCoffee]

During my training to be an instructor at a very large and very prominent public University in the US, we were told to never be alone with a student (as in, out of sight of a 3rd party) even for an instant and never make physcial contact with a student for any reason, even to save them from choking (for example). That was almost 20 years ago. So this stuff is nothing new.

For what it's worth, I have never touched a student inappropriately. I have had female students do the following, all without my consent: lean against me inappropriately for an extended amount of time while discussing a paper, leap upon me (from behind, arms around my neck and legs around my waist), and grab my dick. At no point did I feel like I could report these incidents to anyone above me.

 

[Nothing Loud]

And people who come into threads like these and push false accusation concerns are forwarding an effort to discredit real accusations whether they mean to or not.

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Um, no. Things are not mutually exclusive. Victims should absolutely speak up. I'm not ignorant to the fact that sexual assault is traumatic and can cause victims to stay quiet, and we have to do more to systemically empower victims' voices.

That doesn't mean I'm wrong when I say that vengeful, wrong accusations happen, they are serious, the stakes are high, and they should be acknowledged seriously, not disregarded just because they are rare. I distinctly remember a thread here where in the news, some ex-girlfriend accused her boyfriend of rape, and they didn't even investigate the truth. Thankfully, he had proof.

When surgeons perform surgery, they provide the surgery success rates to the patient. Even if the surgery is successful 99% of the time, they still push the concern of the risk that, 1% of the time, it is not. And that has dire consequences.

If your primary concern isn't the dramatically statistically larger number of situations that go unreported and unpunished and instead demanding we keep the much smaller number of liars in mind at all times you are working to discredit victims by seeding doubt unnecessarily.

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I didn't say it was my primary concern. There has been plenty of support on this forum for the large number of victims' voices. We all want them to be heard.

My post was simply giving true, real examples in my life that demonstrate why we shouldn't hand-wave the sensitivity of the instructor-student relationship, and it triggered you.

 

[Carolina Reaper]

Out in the real world you're inevitably going to meet people with differing opinions. It's OK to disagree with people.

 

[SoH]

My post was simply giving true, real examples in my life that demonstrate why we shouldn't hand-wave the sensitivity of the instructor-student relationship, and it triggered you.

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🤔

You're making a real effort to argue in good faith.

 

[vertigo]

all the time.