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TheDutchSlayer

Did you find it? Cuez I didn't!
Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,993
The Hauge, The Netherlands
Search but could not find a thread on today's ep yet.
Sorry if missed



Its like they look in my brain and put in a video what I was 100% thinking LIKE 1000000% truly best seriously your not watching this yet seriously GO WATCH IT.
And then put in front of your family and then show it to everyone you ever seem to ever think about this subject ever again.

I was like YESSSS YESSS YESSSS this all of this and then some at my tv for the entire video.

Truly incredible.
 

Garrett 2U

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,511
Making my way through this video... @6:40 he is arguing that Biden is not a BOLD enough candidate to unite the low-income, low-education voters. But didn't Biden get the poor, non-college educated voters in the primary?
 

H.Cornerstone

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,699
Making my way through this video... @6:40 he is arguing that Biden is not a BOLD enough candidate to unite the low-income, low-education voters. But didn't Biden get the poor, non-college educated voters in the primary?
Yeah.... like I don't know why he is arguing. For two elections in a row Bernie has done terrible with black voters and he is actually doing worse this election than last. How can he beat trump if he can't even win the democratic primary?
 

ItIsOkBro

Happy New Year!!
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,472
am i supposed to believe that biden can't beat trump? i don't believe that to be true.

which candidate could beat trump was never the issue...i was fully confident any of the top runners could beat him.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
Making my way through this video... @6:40 he is arguing that Biden is not a BOLD enough candidate to unite the low-income, low-education voters. But didn't Biden get the poor, non-college educated voters in the primary?

The left in America, especially the moderate sort who play up the #resistance hashtag as being the epitome of activism, are just as susceptible to the romanticization of the country as anyone.

An era existed within our lifetimes, in which things were good and we were the moral center of the planet, and it's only those other guys who've taken over recently who are fucking things up. Once we're rid of them, things will be better. It will save all the people who used to be comfortable but are suffering under these new guys' rule, these idiots who have all the power but none of the accountability. And we need to take drastic actions to do so, like sending out Biden.

If that sounds uncannily like Eco's outline of facism, well, like I said in the primary thread, this is MAGA for liberals. One of the most common explanations for the wider Black community in the south rallying around Biden from Black leftists in those same regions is that they are voting for Biden out of hopes that he will be more palatable to those in the status quo -- an interesting point, because these communities surely know more than anyone that such a romanticized view of America never reflected this country's reality.

The answer to all of this in my mind is that Trump's regime has indeed paved the way for a subtler, savvier fascism, and it's happening right now, and it's hiding on the left in plain sight. And it's just as popular, because we need to do get Trump out of office by any means necessary, or so they say. I break ranks slightly with my leftists (such as this video) in thinking Biden is electable for this very reason. That utterly terrifies me; I don't see it as an optimistic viewpoint. Biden normalizes a sort of fascist relationship with this country more than he presents active resistance to the egregious behavior of the Trump administration.

This is part of what people mean when they say that Trump is a symptom of a larger cultural dysfunction in our society.
 

BWoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
38,246
If the youth would actually fucking vote for Bernie in the primaries, I'd believe this video!
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
None of this video seems to be backed up by, you know, actual data.

In fact, the only actual data we have now seems to indicate the polar opposet of his argument.
 

Hollywood Duo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,708
Yeah.... like I don't know why he is arguing. For two elections in a row Bernie has done terrible with black voters and he is actually doing worse this election than last. How can he beat trump if he can't even win the democratic primary?
Yeah I just don't get it. Whoever wins the primary has the best shot. That's the whole point of the primary process.
 

ThLunarian

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,547
Haven't watched this but it sounds like this guy is on the Biden-is-an-establishment-hack train, which is a shame because I know he's capable of good content. His deconstruction of Ben Shapiro is marvelous. Nobody's perfect I guess
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,139
That's not really data, at least not the most relevant data when we have actual votes that stand in opposition to his argument.
I'm pretty dumb, but wasn't that the point of the bit where he mentioned all the moderate democrats that "win the popular vote but lose the election" ...or whatever
 

sprsk

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,449
Yeah I just don't get it. Whoever wins the primary has the best shot. That's the whole point of the primary process.

The idea is that if Bernie is the nominee then all the people that didn't vote for him will be forced to in the general and those people plus all the Bernie voters will push him to victory. If Bernie doesn't get nominated the Bernie voters won't show up and we'll lose.
 

Wordballoons

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,061
That's not really data, at least not the most relevant data when we have actual votes that stand in opposition to his argument.
Data can say a lot of things. I'm not convinced the voters Biden is bringing out to the primaries are ones that wouldn't already be showing up for the GE. Only way to see is to wait. If Biden flops I wonder what happens to the democratic party moving forward.

Edit: for all of our sake I of course totally hope he does not flop
 

jeelybeans

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,948
I don't believe Bernie's argument anymore. Even after Warren dropped out after being harassed to hell and back, Bernie didn't gain votes. The progressive movement can't win with Bernie.

Which argument specifically are you referring to?

That he will bring in new voters and the youth.

Youth turnout is down for him. And other candidates have brought more voters into various primary contests than he has.
 

Hollywood Duo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,708
The idea is that if Bernie is the nominee then all the people that didn't vote for him will be forced to in the general and those people plus all the Bernie voters will push him to victory. If Bernie doesn't get nominated the Bernie voters won't show up and we'll lose.
Except the Bernie voters don't show up in the primary so they obviously don't give a shit. He seems to have even less support than 4 years ago.
 

Piston

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,155
I normally like his videos but I think he is missing something here. Hillary and Joe aren't running in the same situation even if they are running from a similar platform and message. He touches on why Joe has a shot but I think he undersells it.

1. We have had four years of Trump and many are just ready to have him out of office. Joe is seen as a more palatable lesser of two evils for many Republicans/"moderates" like Trump was seen as in 2016 against Hillary.
2. The economy is about to go into a bear market due to numerous issues and it seems like Trump is fumbling any solutions away.
3. Many people vote based on "what have you done for me lately" attitudes... and what has Trump done for anyone lately?
4. Hillary had to suffer through the innate misogyny and sexism of the national electorate. Joe is seen as cute and harmless when he makes his inevitable gaffes but Hillary was scrutinized way more.
5. He has not been demonized like Hillary for the last 30 years. He has issues that will be brought up, but they don't have the same sway that the emails did, that Monica Lewinsky did, that Benghazi did, etc. Nothing has been grounded into the minds of most American's like Hillary's.
6. Joe is beating Bernie in many states that Hillary lost to him in and he has very strong appeal in the swing states like PA, MI, FL, NC, etc.
7. Coronavirus.

Is he right that Bernie should be the candidate in an ideal world? That Bernie would push better policies? Yes, of course.

*Side note, I'm not sure why he is lumping Obama into the progressive group in comparison to Joe.
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
I'm pretty dumb, but wasn't that the point of the bit where he mentioned all the moderate democrats that "win the popular vote but lose the election" ...or whatever
But Bernie hasn't shown an ability to do either....

I voted for Bernie, I wanted him to win. But from a completely dispassionate view, his performance in the primary so far has not provided any evidence that he has a better shot at winning the general than Biden does. In fact, it's the opposite.
 

Hollywood Duo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,708
I normally like his videos but I think he is missing something here. Hillary and Joe aren't running in the same situation even if they are running from a similar platform and message. He touches on why Joe has a shot but I think he undersells it.

1. We have had four years of Trump and many are just ready to have him out of office. Joe is seen as a more palatable lesser of two evils for many Republicans/"moderates" like Trump was seen as in 2016 against Hillary.
2. The economy is about to go into a bear market due to numerous issues and it seems like Trump is fumbling any solutions away.
3. Many people vote based on "what have you done for me lately" attitudes... and what has Trump done for anyone lately?
4. Hillary had to suffer through the innate misogyny and sexism of the national electorate. Joe is seen as cute and harmless when he makes his inevitable gaffes but Hillary was scrutinized way more.
5. He has not been demonized like Hillary for the last 30 years. He has issues that will be brought up, but they don't have the same sway that the emails did, that Monica Lewinsky did, that Benghazi did, etc. Nothing has been grounded into the minds of most American's like Hillary's.
6. Joe is beating Bernie in many states that Hillary lost to him in and he has very strong appeal in the swing states like PA, MI, FL, NC, etc.
7. Coronavirus.

Is he right that Bernie should be the candidate in an ideal world? That Bernie would push better policies? Yes, of course.

*Side note, I'm not sure why he is lumping Obama into the progressive group in comparison to Joe.
Number 4 is really the only thing that stopped her from winning. If Hillary was a man she would have coasted to victory. It's probably worth like 3 points in the polls. It sucks but that's reality.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,889
Not even mentioning the only hard data we have at this point, which generally favors Biden, seems like a very conscious omission to ignore things that doesn't fit the narrative. If you're going to talk about trends using past elections you should at least bring up what we know about the upcoming election.

He goes too weak on the failures of the Sanders campaign to improve upon their 2016 performance, at some point you have to accept responsibility for your failures. Bernie could have, and should have, won this but there have been so many unforced errors along the way that it's sadly hard to say that his campaign deserves it at this point. It was his race to win and he blew it by sticking to his guns and not addressing his weaknesses.

And framing Obama as the progressive in the 2008 primary is an, um, interesting way to frame that primary season.
 

Jinaar

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,296
Edmonton AB
Remember this thread in Nov if it is Biden vs Trump at the polls. Book mark it and let us compare what was said here and the results there. See ya at the end of the year, folks!
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,454
Remember this thread in Nov if it is Biden vs Trump at the polls. Book mark it and let us compare what was said here and the results there. See ya at the end of the year, folks!

Nah. This feels like counting on Trump to win and I don't want that. This is totally kicking the can down the road. This is absolutely the liberal version of voting against your best interests. I feel sold out by the elders in my community.

But that's all better than Trump. I'd rather Trump lose than be right.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,048
Starting to dislike his videos, honestly.

He only cites data that back his claim, glosses over everything else (eg Sanders beats him in polls, seemingly forgetting to mention that Biden outperforms Bernie in almost all of the same polls) and ya know, the minor point that Bernie lost on ST. Badly.

So now are we to believe that Bernie should be selected, after badly losing, because he's a progressive and moderates have lost more elections in the past? What?

I feel like the progressives are losing their minds. We need to come together, here.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,319
Starting to dislike his videos, honestly.

He only cites data that back his claim, glosses over everything else (eg Sanders beats him in polls, seemingly forgetting to mention that Biden outperforms Bernie in almost all of the same polls) and ya know, the minor point that Bernie lost on ST. Badly.

So now are we to believe that Bernie should be selected, after badly losing, because he's a progressive and moderates have lost more elections in the past? What?

I feel like the progressives are losing their minds. We need to come together, here.
I'd say it's very unfortunate timing that this video was probably made before the polls started to shift drastically.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,048
I'd say it's very unfortunate timing that this video was probably made before the polls started to shift drastically.

But it was made after ST, correct?

That was Bernie's to win. He had momentum, 3 wins, and a weakened Biden who vastly underperformed to that point.

He *still* got obliterated. You have to be truly delusional to trot out this argument now. That... Or you're most definitely in the bubble.