• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

LegendofJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,067
Arkansas, USA
I lost a lot of faith in the Democratic party after seeing that so many Senators co-sponsored this. They cannot even imagine what the real problem is - out of control income inequality and horrific working conditions. So instead of addressing that they want to subject our children to the same miserable conditions.

Get the fuck out and get a damn clue about what it's actually like in the working world outside of your wealthy privileged bubbles. Help the parents improve their quality of life and the children will benefit. Address the source of the problem or get out of Washington DC.
 

UltraMav

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,716
As a teacher: fuck offfffff with this bullshit.

Though landing a second-shift only gig wouldn't be too bad...
 

Zoe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,215
Working parent here, i still don't think it's a good idea. but still it would be better if the stuff from 3-6 was NOT schooling and more leisure time or study hall in nature. To expect kids to be in school for that long learning is no good. Go home and have time for not much else.

It's not intended to be used as more curriculum hours.
 

Lucas M. Thomas

Editor-in-Chief of Nintendo Force Magazine
Verified
Oct 30, 2017
2,290
Kentucky
Took my kids to a book fair at their school tonight a little before 6:00. This time of year, after the "fall back" clock change, it's as dark as midnight at 6. That issue alone should derail this entire idea - how in the world could you justify sending school buses full of kids out into the dark? The school day ending at 6:00 means buses would be running well after that, especially in crowded towns and rural areas. Some kids wouldn't get home until closer to 7:00.

I'm amazed that this idea progressed any further than a "what if?" conversation over lunch with a few colleagues and it's actually something she's getting behind - and during an election cycle! The whole process of thought through her brain to arrive at this bill is flabbergasting.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,909
Took my kids to a book fair at their school tonight a little before 6:00. This time of year, after the "fall back" clock change, it's as dark as midnight at 6. That issue alone should derail this entire idea - how in the world could you justify sending school buses full of kids out into the dark? The school day ending at 6:00 means buses would be running well after that, especially in crowded towns and rural areas. Some kids wouldn't get home until closer to 7:00.

I'm amazed that this idea progressed any further than a "what if?" conversation over lunch with a few colleagues and it's actually something she's getting behind - and during an election cycle! The whole process of thought through her brain to arrive at this bill is flabbergasting.
School buses?

The whole point of this plan is to address poorer communities and families who don't have means to pick up their kids after school. This isn't a plan for you if your kids are in a community where they're getting bussed home from school.

Respectfully, you're far removed from who this plan is designed to address if you're thinking in terms of school buses.
 

Fularu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,609
While 6 PM seems to be kind of late, when I was in primary school in France school would end at 4:45 and then we would have homework with the teacher for may of us till 6 PM

Of course that meant we didn't have homework... at home
 

Deleted member 6230

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
School buses?
The whole point of this plan is to address poorer communities and families who don't have means to pick up their kids after school. This isn't a plan for you if your kids are in a community where they're getting bussed home from school.
Huh

wouldn't this plan affect literally every child and parent no matter if they take a bus or not?
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
what an absolutely awful idea.

An extra 15 mins would have destroyed my morale in high school, let alone an extra 3 hours.
 

BrickArts295

GOTY Tracking Thread Master
Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,710
Goddamn 9-11 hours of school, thats seems a bit extreme and yeah I know about after school programs (I've been in those until 5pm) but I'm thinking about those poor teachers.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,909
Huh

wouldn't this plan affect literally every child and parent no matter if they take a bus or not?
No, because this is not "schooling" nor is it mandatory. Nor does it increase the workload of teachers. It's all in the bill.

This is a plan to incentivize schools through federal grant money to employ additional staff through community programs for the purpose of keeping schools open until 6PM, so that working parents who don't have the ability to pick their kids up right after school have more time to do so without their kids sitting in the curb waiting for them. In basic terms, it is extending after school programs. But people see "school day" and stop reading.
 

Deleted member 6230

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
No, because this is not "schooling" nor is it mandatory.

This is a plan to incentivize schools through federal grant money to employ additional staff through community programs for the purpose of keeping schools open until 6PM, so that working parents who don't have the ability to pick their kids up right after school have more time to do so without their kids sitting in the curb waiting for them. In basic terms, it is extending after school programs. But people are "school day" and stop reading.
Why not fund after school programs
 

Lucas M. Thomas

Editor-in-Chief of Nintendo Force Magazine
Verified
Oct 30, 2017
2,290
Kentucky
I read into it further, but the messaging right out of the gate on this is so confusing that it's shooting her in the foot no matter what. When the headline on the news is "Kamala wants to lengthen the school day by three more hours," then that's all 95% of people are going to react to, no matter whether or not the truth is closer to expanding after-school programs in only certain communities.

And I'll stick by my school bus comment, because there's no way transportation of these kids home doesn't become a major problem with this timetable. Shifting in-person pick-up time to 6:00 won't magically make 100% of parents available to sweep in with smiles on their faces every day to reclaim their darling children.
 

Maeros

Member
Dec 21, 2017
381
Welcome to the life of a lot of inner city kids already.

Except it isn't indoors with funded activities; it's waiting around outside the closed school for your parents to come pick you up.

Why cant American kids go home alone? In my country most kids by age 6 and at latest age 8 walk/bike to home alone from school. And either there is a parent at home waiting for them or a babysitter. I can understand not being able to afford a babysitter but what about grandparents? :)
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,909
And I'll stick by my school bus comment, because there's no way transportation of these kids home doesn't become a major problem with this timetable. Shifting in-person pick-up time to 6:00 won't magically make 100% of parents available to sweep in with smiles on their faces every day to reclaim their darling children.

The bill doesn't claim to be a fix-all solution. I think the part that you're missing is that this plan isn't requiring kids to stay at school until 6PM. IF schools want the grant money, it requires them to be open until at least 6PM.

There will still be plenty of busses dropping kids off in broad daylight.
 

Knight613

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,647
San Francisco
Why cant American kids go home alone? In my country most kids by age 6 and at latest age 8 walk/bike to home alone from school. And either there is a parent at home waiting for them or a babysitter. I can understand not being able to afford a babysitter but what about grandparents? :)
I was walking to school and home by myself once I hit first grade. Not every parent is going to be able to pick up their kids or send them to school.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,909
Why cant American kids go home alone? In my country most kids by age 6 and at latest age 8 walk/bike to home alone from school. And either there is a parent at home waiting for them or a babysitter. I can understand not being able to afford a babysitter but what about grandparents? :)

This is possible in a lot of places in the US.

However, I'm from Los Angeles, one of the largest cities in the US. It's not uncommon for kids in a city that big to go to a school a significant distance from home. Especially if you went to a magnet school outside your district or, horror, had a parent who borrowed a relatives address who lived in a better neighborhood so you could go to a better school (which is also common).

Also, there's a component of this that doesn't have much to do with transportion. One benefit of after school programs is providing kids with a safe and productive space after school. Not schooling, but studying, doing homework, recreational activites, bla bla bla. Because if not for these programs you kids are out on the streets after school. And if they're out on the street after school...they might join The Gangs.
 

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,296
America
The bill doesn't claim to be a fix-all solution. I think the part that you're missing is that this plan isn't requiring kids to stay at school until 6PM. IF schools want the grant money, it requires them to be open until at least 6PM.

There will still be plenty of busses dropping kids off in broad daylight.

Exactly.

My school was open from 8 AM to 6 PM. There would be an hour lunch break, 2 fifteen minutes class recess at 10 AM and 4 PM and one or two free hours at some random point in the day. The most classes you could have was 50 min * 8 = 400 minutes, or 6h30min.

More often than not, I would get out of school around 5 or 6 PM. It was not some great tragedy...

Also, kids can do all their homework at school, so when they leave at 6 PM, all that's left is music/games/play.
 

Jombie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,392
Yes, it's what our children need. To be more exhausted, hate school even more and prepare them for the overworked misery of the 'real world.'
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,132
Why cant American kids go home alone? In my country most kids by age 6 and at latest age 8 walk/bike to home alone from school. And either there is a parent at home waiting for them or a babysitter. I can understand not being able to afford a babysitter but what about grandparents? :)

You can understand not being able to afford a babysitter but you can't understand not living next to your grandparents?
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,132
This is possible in a lot of places in the US.

However, I'm from Los Angeles, one of the largest cities in the US. It's not uncommon for kids in a city that big to go to a school a significant distance from home. Especially if you went to a magnet school outside your district or, horror, had a parent who borrowed a relatives address who lived in a better neighborhood so you could go to a better school (which is also common).

Also, there's a component of this that doesn't have much to do with transportion. One benefit of after school programs is providing kids with a safe and productive space after school. Not schooling, but studying, doing homework, recreational activites, bla bla bla. Because if not for these programs you kids are out on the streets after school. And if they're out on the street after school...they might join The Gangs.

The way this is worded is killer, though.

For one thing, I don't understand why she can't just put this as funding after school programs (at the schools) full stop. By putting this on the school staff and teachers, she's confusing the issues, and I would think that hiring more teachers would be a bigger financial burden than hiring after school workers. The shift thing sounds like a nightmare to administer.

You also made a comment earlier about school districts not having buses, but I thought even the poorer districts in LA had school buses? So are these buses going to run multiple routes, one at the end of the "normal" school day and then another at 6, or are there no buses at 6 (which sucks for parents who get district exceptions and get bussed out).

Also I thought many of the schools in LA had an afterschool program already, but they are filled to capacity with a needs-based waiting list?
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,873
Why cant American kids go home alone? In my country most kids by age 6 and at latest age 8 walk/bike to home alone from school. And either there is a parent at home waiting for them or a babysitter. I can understand not being able to afford a babysitter but what about grandparents? :)
Can't go home alone in winter when it's dark before school starts and once it lets out and that assumes that kids are close enough to the school to get their themselves, when in the US most students are too far to realistically travel by themselves. I can't tell if you're serious about grandparents, but hardly anyone lives that close to relatives to be able to do that
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,937
I appreciate your insight and you make a lot of good points. Do you think it would be beneficial to just call it ec activities provided free of charge by the state? I think there's a lot of confusion around "extending school hours".

Yeah, I think it would be waaay more helpful to avoid branding confusion, but also like... the conversation should change. I don't think we should *have* to call it "After School Programs," because a lot of those aren't free, they're not run by the school system (But usually by non-profit 3rd parties like the YMCA, local churches, or sometimes for-profit corporation), and there often isn't officially an element of public school curriculum.

I think people see "Extending school days to 6PM!" and think of it like ... children are going to be in school doing school work from 8am to 6pm and underpaid teachers are teaching that whole time, but I think the program more is providing funding for schools that need it to keep their doors open until 6PM and offer after-school programming... Whether it's just like, a study hall, or activities, or maybe some mix of soft classes I think that's usually left up to the school boards / school committees to decide, but the bill is for the funding of it.

For what it's worth, I think it'd be under-funded at this price point. But... it's better than nothing, which it is now.

I think there was a strong kneejerk because people see "Kamala Harris" (who many of us now think is like an evil nazi or w/e) and then they see "Extending school day to 6PM" and just assume the worst.. e.g., the posts describing school as prison and how Harris is trying to lock children up in prison, or the other take of "why would teachers want to spend more time with bad kids" (which I think is a borderline racist remark, but w/e). When the reality is that many kids are effectively made homeless from 2PM to 8PM because they have nowhere to go, nowhere to do their homework, left out in the cold, and it's what contributes to generational poverty. Parents either have to quit their jobs, work weird hours, or hope to have a grandparent, aunt, etc., who can help watch tons of kids... The current system keeps people poor and makes it hard for children to learn and grow. Like, my wife's students don't have computers or the internet at home, their only time to use a computer is at school but they don't have a class in her school that just lets kids learn how to use a computer, and so the little time they do get on the computer for doing writing assignments, or w/e, my wife (an english teacher) usually has to teach the basics of using a computer... typing, copy and paste, opening and saving files, things like that. It'd be great if there was a funded program from 2-6 where they had an option to learn those things, or just do homework in a building that has heat and electricity.

The responses in this thread are really sad because I think most people would rather dunk on Kamala Harris than actually pause and think about something thoughtfully, or even SHOCK click through to read the article instead of just the thread title... I don't even like/support Harris either, but there's a lot of really bad, uninformed, ignorant takes. I think there's a lot of entitled, privileged people in this thread from white suburban communities who thought of school as a burden to be suffered through so that they could go to college and get a good job.
 
Last edited:

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,937
or

fund after-school programs.


That's exactly what this is, it just proposes using the existing public school infrastructure rather than having to rely on 3rd party, non-governmental organizations like many after school programs do... e.g,, YMCA, church groups, BOys and Girls Clubs, etc

The bill proposes that the grant money go to extracurricular activities like electives in "music, arts, athletics, writing and engineering," Harris' senate office told CNBC. The extra time can also go toward dance and theater programs, among other enrichment activities, the office said. but it leaves the scheduling of the day open to school administrators.

During the grant period, Congress will evaluate survey responses from parents, teachers, students, and school administrators to determine their satisfaction with the program and come up with "best practices."
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
10,003
That's exactly what this is, it just proposes using the existing public school infrastructure rather than having to rely on 3rd party, non-governmental organizations like many after school programs do... e.g,, YMCA, church groups, BOys and Girls Clubs, etc
bad messaging for people who don't read articles before posting.
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
Horrible approach.

Instead, tax billionaires to increase funding for schools and teacher pay.
Incentivize after school programs and transportation for after school activities.

Increase minimum wage
Improve public transit.
Improve parental leave benefits
Make sure each kid gets healthy food at school
And stop the disproportionate incarceration of people of color.
 

AgentOtaku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,441
I was going to post the issues with this but it's been covered. I'll just say Kamala, girl you out of this race now. This was the single dumbest bill I've seen in a long time.

People in the US are so beholden to their jobs with shit pay and hours...let's start with that so we can have more time with family. Schools aren't there to raise your kids.

Amen
 
Dec 31, 2017
7,083
This is an issue that needs addressing but this probably isn't the best way to go about it, unless the entire school day get's structured such that the total amount of learning is maintained consistently, and there are breaks in between to do homework, "after" school activities etc.

The marketing on this bill is going to be horrible to boot.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,909
Yeah, I think it would be waaay more helpful to avoid branding confusion, but also like... the conversation should change. I don't think we should *have* to call it "After School Programs," because a lot of those aren't free, they're not run by the school system (But usually by non-profit 3rd parties like the YMCA, local churches, or sometimes for-profit corporation), and there often isn't officially an element of public school curriculum.

I think people see "Extending school days to 6PM!" and think of it like ... children are going to be in school doing school work from 8am to 6pm and underpaid teachers are teaching that whole time, but I think the program more is providing funding for schools that need it to keep their doors open until 6PM and offer after-school programming... Whether it's just like, a study hall, or activities, or maybe some mix of soft classes I think that's usually left up to the school boards / school committees to decide, but the bill is for the funding of it.

For what it's worth, I think it'd be under-funded at this price point. But... it's better than nothing, which it is now.

I think there was a strong kneejerk because people see "Kamala Harris" (who many of us now think is like an evil nazi or w/e) and then they see "Extending school day to 6PM" and just assume the worst.. e.g., the posts describing school as prison and how Harris is trying to lock children up in prison, or the other take of "why would teachers want to spend more time with bad kids" (which I think is a borderline racist remark, but w/e). When the reality is that many kids are effectively made homeless from 2PM to 8PM because they have nowhere to go, nowhere to do their homework, left out in the cold, and it's what contributes to generational poverty. Parents either have to quit their jobs, work weird hours, or hope to have a grandparent, aunt, etc., who can help watch tons of kids... The current system keeps people poor and makes it hard for children to learn and grow. Like, my wife's students don't have computers or the internet at home, their only time to use a computer is at school but they don't have a class in her school that just lets kids learn how to use a computer, and so the little time they do get on the computer for doing writing assignments, or w/e, my wife (an english teacher) usually has to teach the basics of using a computer... typing, copy and paste, opening and saving files, things like that. It'd be great if there was a funded program from 2-6 where they had an option to learn those things, or just do homework in a building that has heat and electricity.

The responses in this thread are really sad because I think most people would rather dunk on Kamala Harris than actually pause and think about something thoughtfully, or even SHOCK click through to read the article instead of just the thread title... I don't even like/support Harris either, but there's a lot of really bad, uninformed, ignorant takes. I think there's a lot of entitled, privileged people in this thread from white suburban communities who thought of school as a burden to be suffered through so that they could go to college and get a good job.
Beautiful post.
 

SpecX

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
1,808
Yeah, I think it would be waaay more helpful to avoid branding confusion, but also like... the conversation should change. I don't think we should *have* to call it "After School Programs," because a lot of those aren't free, they're not run by the school system (But usually by non-profit 3rd parties like the YMCA, local churches, or sometimes for-profit corporation), and there often isn't officially an element of public school curriculum.

I think people see "Extending school days to 6PM!" and think of it like ... children are going to be in school doing school work from 8am to 6pm and underpaid teachers are teaching that whole time, but I think the program more is providing funding for schools that need it to keep their doors open until 6PM and offer after-school programming... Whether it's just like, a study hall, or activities, or maybe some mix of soft classes I think that's usually left up to the school boards / school committees to decide, but the bill is for the funding of it.

For what it's worth, I think it'd be under-funded at this price point. But... it's better than nothing, which it is now.

I think there was a strong kneejerk because people see "Kamala Harris" (who many of us now think is like an evil nazi or w/e) and then they see "Extending school day to 6PM" and just assume the worst.. e.g., the posts describing school as prison and how Harris is trying to lock children up in prison, or the other take of "why would teachers want to spend more time with bad kids" (which I think is a borderline racist remark, but w/e). When the reality is that many kids are effectively made homeless from 2PM to 8PM because they have nowhere to go, nowhere to do their homework, left out in the cold, and it's what contributes to generational poverty. Parents either have to quit their jobs, work weird hours, or hope to have a grandparent, aunt, etc., who can help watch tons of kids... The current system keeps people poor and makes it hard for children to learn and grow. Like, my wife's students don't have computers or the internet at home, their only time to use a computer is at school but they don't have a class in her school that just lets kids learn how to use a computer, and so the little time they do get on the computer for doing writing assignments, or w/e, my wife (an english teacher) usually has to teach the basics of using a computer... typing, copy and paste, opening and saving files, things like that. It'd be great if there was a funded program from 2-6 where they had an option to learn those things, or just do homework in a building that has heat and electricity.

The responses in this thread are really sad because I think most people would rather dunk on Kamala Harris than actually pause and think about something thoughtfully, or even SHOCK click through to read the article instead of just the thread title... I don't even like/support Harris either, but there's a lot of really bad, uninformed, ignorant takes. I think there's a lot of entitled, privileged people in this thread from white suburban communities who thought of school as a burden to be suffered through so that they could go to college and get a good job.
👏🏾 This is a very we'll put together post.