Senator Kamala Harris introduces new bill to extend school day to 6PM

[fontguy]

What we need to do is federally mandate full beds and washrooms at all businesses and schools to relieve the burden of "picking up the kids," "family time," and "not being swallowed whole by capitalism's gaping maw."

It's wild what a bad candidate she turned out to be.

 

[Coyote Zamora]

Judging by the way I see most kids writing, thinking and talking they need as much more schooling as they can get

 

[Servbot24]

This seems like a terrible idea. No kid is paying attention for 7 hours a day as it is. Raising it to 10 hours makes no sense.

 

[Omegasquash]

Judging by the way I see most kids writing, thinking and talking they need as much more schooling as they can get

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?

 

[Servbot24]

Judging by the way I see most kids writing, thinking and talking they need as much more schooling as they can get

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Better education is needed, but that does not mean more hours of education will help.

 

[Titik]

Extend it but make it so it's PE or some sort of physical activity. Hell just make it so that the students are free whatever they want, okay whatever so long as you keep them in schools even if it's unstructured physical stuff.

Extending the hours just for more school work hasn't been shown to do anything. Physical activity, on the other hand, has been shown to be the most effective way to get kids to learn faster. It's good for thier bodies, too.

 

[TheMadTitan]

Just delay the school start times. That way, kids get out of school at the same time as older siblings, relatives, or trusted neighborhood kids. No need to extend the length of time they're in school, no need to spend more on a sitter, and if they start school later, they already better align with the parents work schedule.

Staggered school starts dying will likely be a bigger fix.

 

[Falchion]

They need to make the school day start later and end later, not just extend it on the back end.

 

[Coyote Zamora]

Better education is needed, but that does not mean more hours of education will help.

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If it adds back arts and PE they've got my vote

 

[Titik]

If it adds back arts and PE they've got my vote

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Yeah. Even make a few hours essentially be 'free time' and just provide the space and materials/equipment. Let the kids be creative with their time.

 

[Mesoian]

The only way an 8-6 school day makes sense is if 4 hours of that day are strictly recess.

 

[Deleted member 6539]

So this is just a really poorly messaged bill for more after school programs, ok

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I'm an idiot and I *got* that. What's being argued against in this thread is weird to me.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

There's nothing in this bill that says schools can't hire dedicated staff.

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That's still putting the onus on the schools, plus the bill specifically targets having teachers work overtime without overtime pay. 5 million per district is not enough to cover such a huge expansion of the school's duties.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

I'm an idiot and I *got* that. What's being argued against in this thread is weird to me.

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It's not even enough money for comprehensive after school care though.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

Fuck that. Kids need to explore and play. Fund after school programs for low income families, don't force everyone to sit through more lecture bullshit.

 

[Zoe]

That's still putting the onus on the schools, plus the bill specifically targets having teachers work overtime without overtime pay. 5 million per district is not enough to cover such a huge expansion of the school's duties.

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A federal program will still be run by the schools. That's what Pre-K programs are.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

My wife grew up in China and was always amazed how short our school day was.

Granted she had like 2 hours lunches and just went home and came back.

I think the real solution is more after school activities for kids, as well as Tutoring, study halls, sports, arts, STEM, etc. Spend the extra time enriching the children and helping fill that daycare gap.

 

[SurrenderDorothy]

Bloody horrific to even suggest this on top of all the issues with education and worn out kids. This bill along with the rest of her politics belong in the bin.
Shame on anyone who even entertains this shit.

 

[Royalan]

I don't see what's wrong with this bill.

It isn't advocating for a longer "school day." It's not proposing more work for teachers. It's a proposal to advocate funding for more public after school programs because, guess what, a lot of (poorer) schools don't have that and, guess another thing, not all parents are able to take off work to pick their kids up after school. It's all right there in the bill.

I grew up in Los Angeles. My elementary school was about a 30 minute drive from home, and an even longer walk. From what I remember, there was only an extra hour of after school activities/care, after which, I had two options: sit outside the school for hours until my single mother was able to take off work and come pick me up. Or, when I got a little older, find a way home myself. When you are a kid growing up in the inner city, neither of these options are what most parents want to be faced with. But it IS the reality for entirely too many kids.

Since when did we, as the left, get to the point where we're shitting on a candidate for...*checks notes*...making after school care more accessible for parents?

 

[Deleted member 11413]

A federal program will still be run by the schools. That's what Pre-K programs are.

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It could be, it does not have to be. Pre-K is entirely different, pre-K teachers are still teachers. pre-K is not daycare

 

[Djkhaled]

I don't see what's wrong with this bill.

It isn't advocating for a longer "school day." It's not proposing more work for teachers. It's a proposal to advocate funding for more public after school programs because, guess what, a lot of (poorer) schools don't have that and, guess another thing, not all parents are able to take off work to pick their kids up after school. It's all right there in the bill.

I grew up in Los Angeles. My elementary school was about a 30 minute drive from home, and an even longer walk. From what I remember, there was only an extra hour of after school activities/care, after which, I had two options: sit outside the school for hours until my single mother was able to take off work and come pick me up. Or, when I got a little older, find a way home myself. When you are a kid growing up in the inner city, neither of these options are what most parents want to be faced with. But it IS the reality for entirely too many kids.

Since when did we, as the left, get to the point where we're shitting on a candidate for...*checks notes*...making after school care more accessible for parents?

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lmao, this would be a ridiculous idea in any other western country, but in america for some reason there are people like you defending it

 

[Deleted member 11413]

I don't see what's wrong with this bill.

It isn't advocating for a longer "school day." It's not proposing more work for teachers. It's a proposal to advocate funding for more public after school programs because, guess what, a lot of (poorer) schools don't have that and, guess another thing, not all parents are able to take off work to pick their kids up after school. It's all right there in the bill.

I grew up in Los Angeles. My elementary school was about a 30 minute drive from home, and an even longer walk. From what I remember, there was only an extra hour of after school activities/care, after which, I had two options: sit outside the school for hours until my single mother was able to take off work and come pick me up. Or, when I got a little older, find a way home myself. When you are a kid growing up in the inner city, neither of these options are what most parents want to be faced with. But it IS the reality for entirely too many kids.

Since when did we, as the left, get to the point where we're shitting on a candidate for...*checks notes*...making after school care more accessible for parents?

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It is directly proposing more work for teachers, much of the language in the bill is about teachers taking additional hours to do afterschool instruction. There is nothing wrong with expanding federal funding for afterschool care (though the 5 million per district this bill proposes is not nearly enough), that's a good thing generally.

 

[Royalan]

It is directly proposing more work for teachers, much of the language in the bill is about teachers taking additional hours to do afterschool instruction. There is nothing wrong with expanding federal funding for afterschool care (though the 5 million per district this bill proposes is not nearly enough), that's a good thing generally.

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Not true.

Those in-kind contributions of staff time might be critical to her plans' success. Harris' plan takes pains to ensure school staff wouldn't be overburdened by her vision, a key concession in an environment in which teachers have taken to the picket lines to protest long hours and low pay. Teachers and administrators would not increase the amount of time they work unless they volunteer additional hours and are compensated fairly for them. "This could be a real win for teachers," Brown explains, noting that an extended schedule would give schools the chance to get creative about who has responsibility for students throughout the day. "It shifts the mindset from one teacher being responsible for a group of kids all day to the school and community collectively watching students."


Randi Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers, one of the country's largest teachers unions, supports the measure. "This bill would enable school districts and communities to find solutions that work for them," she said in a statement, while ensuring "teachers and paraprofessionals aren't filling in the gaps without respect and fair compensation."

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https://www.motherjones.com/politic...-work-day-kamala-harris-wants-to-change-that/

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Not true.

https://www.motherjones.com/politic...-work-day-kamala-harris-wants-to-change-that/

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That's literally calling for teachers to work additional hours. Yes, they would be compensated for those hours...but at the same rate as their normal pay, despite the additional hours being overtime hours.

 

[floridaguy954]

No...absolutely stupid.

My wife is a teacher. She already puts in 60-80 hours a week for 40 hours of pay.

GTFO of here with this trash.

Edit** Double the pay of every teacher first, then maybe.

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Also my thoughts on the matter. Teachers are already overworked as fuck. I would not support anything like this unless it came with a 100% or more increase in wages for all teachers.

 

[Royalan]

That's literally calling for teachers to work additional hours. Yes, they would be compensated for those hours...but at the same rate as their normal pay, despite the additional hours being overtime hours.

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Again, not true. It's not "calling on" teachers to work additional hours. Teachers will have the option to volunteer their time to this program, and only if they're compensated for the additional work. It's literally right there in the bit of the Mother Jones article I quoted, and in the language of the bill itself. Here's that:

Specifically, the legislation will:

• Award five-year grants of up to $5 million total to school districts to transform elementary schools serving a high number of low-income families into Family Friendly Schools that
  • Collaborate with community partners to develop high-quality, culturally relevant, linguistically accessible, developmentally appropriate academic, athletic, or enrichment opportunities for students from at least 8 am to 6 pm Monday through Friday during the school year, with no closures except for Federal holidays, weekends, and emergencies;
  • Do not close for parent-teacher conferences, professional development, or any other reason without offering full-day enrichment activities free of charge for students;
  • Do not increase the amount of time teachers and staff have to work unless they choose to work additional hours, and are compensated fairly for the additional hours; and
  • Develop and implement evidence-based policies and practices for parent and family engagement to support working families and help better align school and work schedules.
• Require the Department of Education to publish and disseminate a report on lessons learned from the pilot schools at the end of the five-year grant period, including:
  • Approaches taken by Family Friendly Schools to align school and work schedules;
  • Survey results on parent, teacher, student, school administrator, and community organization satisfaction with Family Friendly Schools;
  • Changes in parental employment rates, student performance, and teacher retention at each Family Friendly School; and
  • Best practices and recommendations for aligning school and work schedules, aligning school schedules and calendars among schools and school districts, and engaging parents and families.
• Authorize an additional $1.3 billion annually for 21[SUP]st[/SUP] Century Community Learning Centers to allow up to 1.8 million more children to access summer programming.

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Like, it is really incredibly difficult to misinterpret this. The goal of this legislation as, again stated in the bill, is to incentive schools to create new positions. Extending the time of existing teachers and staff will literally not be possible through this legislation.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Like, it is really incredibly difficult to misinterpret this.

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And yet people who are motivated to do so manage it.

 

[Deleted member 15737]

School and teachers are not there to raise our children. We need to get away from this mindset. School is not daycare.

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It's just having daycare at school, using school resources. You just need supervisors (or whoever might work at a daycare center), not teachers. Makes it most convenient for the parents. The kids get to run around or read.

 

[Venomgxt]

Make school 7am to 10pm and let the parents decide which shifts their children should take.

 

[Deleted member 36135]

Bloody horrific to even suggest this on top of all the issues with education and worn out kids. This bill along with the rest of her politics belong in the bin.
Shame on anyone who even entertains this shit.

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This is my take.
How about a world where one parent would be able to earn enough money so the other would be able to stay at home and manage the house and children. For single parents the hope would be the cost of daycare was actually reasonable or even subsidized in these cases so their one job can provide enough income for a quality lifestyle and daycare. This is a bigger problem than kid's school hours not aligning with the workday. This didn't used to be a thing.

 

[Baji Boxer]

How many low income people actually work 9-5 jobs anymore?

 

[DOT_mjo]

What the fuck is this lady's fascination with keeping kids in school. God she is truly is the No Fun Police.

 

[Royalan]

How many low income people actually work 9-5 jobs anymore?

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Plenty.

But here's the other thing: It's not just about traditional 9-5 jobs. The struggle to find (and keep) work and the gig economy can keep even parents above the poverty line from being available to pick their kids up after school or arrange for childcare.

My mother was a stylist when I was a kid. That came with an insane schedule. Having school programs available until 6 would have made it not just easier for her to pick me up, but to arrange for someone else to pick me up in the event that she couldn't without me spending hours sitting on the curb with my gameboy.

 

[The_hypocrite]

Creatively bankrupt.

 

[sasnak]

Kamala the cop

 

[nelsonroyale]

Oh I would have hated that as a kid.

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Bingo...I would have started skipping the last hour or so of school.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

This whole thread (almost) just got played for a bunch of idiots, because people dont read.

The bill quite literally says that it's a funding grant for schools who provide the facilities for academic, athletic or other relevant types of activities for kids UPTO 6PM.

UPTO a minimum of....

Not UNTIL a mandatory time of....

If you want to get really stupid about this, you could argue that the "at least" from 8AM upto 6PM means that schools could mandate that school time is 5am to 11pm because it doesnt state that you cant go beyond the 8 to 6 mentioned in the bill.....

The FACT that the bill states that it is IMPOSSIBLE for any teacher to be REQUIRED to do extra hours in order to actually receive the funding just further goes to show that this idea of mandatory 8 to 6 school time is bullshit.

If I tell you I will give you a £5M grant for providing academic/athletic/enrichment opportunities for your employees from 9am to 11pm, you would NEVER assume that it means workers are required to be there from 9 to 11.

Unless you read some dumb article that nudged you in that direction before you ever looked at the bill with your own eyes.

Vote with the facts, not with the headlines.

 

[Paz]

progressive European countries like Finland with incredibly successful education systems are pushing for kids to spend fewer hours in school because it inhibits learning and social growth, so it makes sense in America the plan would be to keep them there longer.

Fix the wealth inequality and work necessity for average Americans if the problem is they can't deal with kids being out of school, don't destroy their education and lives even further.

 

[Royalan]

This whole thread (almost) just got played for a bunch of idiots, because people dont read.

The bill quite literally says that it's a funding grant for schools who provide the facilities for academic, athletic or other relevant types of activities for kids UPTO 6PM.

UPTO.

Not UNTIL.

The FACT that the bill states that it is IMPOSSIBLE for any teacher to be REQUIRED to do extra hours in order to actually receive the funding just further goes to show that this idea of mandatory 8 to 6 school time is bullshit.

If I tell you I will give you a £5M grant for providing academic/athletic/enrichment opportunities for your employees from 9am to 11pm, you would NEVER assume that it means workers are required to be there from 9 to 11.

Unless you read some dumb article that nudged you in that direction before you ever looked at the bill with your own eyes.

Vote with the facts, not with the headlines.

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To be fair, the headlines on this bill are fucked, and her campaign should have better anticipated that. Which is a shame, because this bill really is a very good thing for working parents who want a guaranteed safe place for their kids after school. The lengths that people are going to mischaracterize the intent of this bill when the language of it is plain as day (while at the same time claiming they read the thing) is just...sad to me.

Should the working day be shorter? Absolutely. This bill doesn't dispute that. But this bill, to me, rings as the work of a candidate who looked at the problems we're facing with the intent of coming up with immediate solutions. It's going to take a lot of time and persuasive efforts to shorten the national work day. In the meantime, provide more funding for after school programs. What in the freaking hell is wrong with that?

 

[Keldroc]

The problem is that adults are so overworked and underpaid that they don't have the time or money to deal with their children being out of school when they are. The solution to that problem is not to extend the problem to the children.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Are teachers going to be paid more to deal with the extra BS?

 

[MPrice]

This whole thread (almost) just got played for a bunch of idiots, because people dont read.

The bill quite literally says that it's a funding grant for schools who provide the facilities for academic, athletic or other relevant types of activities for kids UPTO 6PM.

UPTO a minimum of....

Not UNTIL a mandatory time of....

If you want to get really stupid about this, you could argue that the "at least" from 8AM upto 6PM means that schools could mandate that school time is 5am to 11pm because it doesnt state that you cant go beyond the 8 to 6 mentioned in the bill.....

The FACT that the bill states that it is IMPOSSIBLE for any teacher to be REQUIRED to do extra hours in order to actually receive the funding just further goes to show that this idea of mandatory 8 to 6 school time is bullshit.

If I tell you I will give you a £5M grant for providing academic/athletic/enrichment opportunities for your employees from 9am to 11pm, you would NEVER assume that it means workers are required to be there from 9 to 11.

Unless you read some dumb article that nudged you in that direction before you ever looked at the bill with your own eyes.

Vote with the facts, not with the headlines.

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The bill is incoherent and unintelligible as written. That's just what it is and that's nobody's fault but the authors.

I've already pointed out a few times that this bill actually doesn't do what it says it does multiple times. Its after school money that they have to match to qualify for. Not "extending the school day to match work schedules" that it claims multiple times.

 

[Royalan]

I've already pointed out a few times that this bill actually doesn't do what it says it does multiple times. Its after school money that they have to match. Not "extending the school day to match work schedules" that it claims multiple times.

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Matching the federal money is a failsafe in the event the grant money runs out if the program isn't extended. The goal is to ultimately be a self-sustainable program. Many federal programs, including the ACA, run this way.

 

[MPrice]

Matching the federal money is a failsafe in the event the grant money runs out if the program isn't extended. The goal is to ultimately be a self-sustainable program. Many federal programs, including the ACA, run this way.

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Well yeah that's neither here nor there for me. My main problem is that this bill is poorly written, is being communicated poorly and will be rightfully click-baited and twisted to hell because of it.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Again, not true. It's not "calling on" teachers to work additional hours. Teachers will have the option to volunteer their time to this program, and only if they're compensated for the additional work. It's literally right there in the bit of the Mother Jones article I quoted, and in the language of the bill itself. Here's that:



Like, it is really incredibly difficult to misinterpret this. The goal of this legislation as, again stated in the bill, is to incentive schools to create new positions. Extending the time of existing teachers and staff will literally not be possible through this legislation.

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You really don't think school admin won't put pressure on teachers to work more hours? They need to be laid overtime if they are working overtime. If we are talking about creating new positions (better than having teachers do it) then 3 hours 5 days a week is inadequate, it's also inadequate for afterschool care in general. Many low income parents don't work traditional 9-5 jobs, many afterschool programs go until 8 or 9 for this reason. 5 million per district is not nearly enough for this.

 

[Zoe]

Are teachers going to be paid more to deal with the extra BS?

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Teachers will be paid for the extra hours they are scheduled to work.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Teachers will be paid for the extra hours they are scheduled to work.

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They are not going to be paid overtime despite this being overtime labor.

 

[Deleted member 43]

Well, she just lost the vote of anyone under 18.

 

[Royalan]

You really don't think school admin won't put pressure on teachers to work more hours? They need to be laid overtime if they are working overtime. If we are talking about creating new positions (better than having teachers do it) then 3 hours 5 days a week is inadequate, it's also inadequate for afterschool care in general. Many low income parents don't work traditional 9-5 jobs, many afterschool programs go until 8 or 9 for this reason. 5 million per district is not nearly enough for this.

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Two things:

1) I'm not really concerned about how this bill could be "twisted," because you could aim that concern at any bill proposed by any candidate. I'm addressing this bill on its merits. You described it falsely in multiple ways across several pages. I was merely highlighting that you were incorrect.

2) ...so now your problem with the bill is that it doesn't extend after school programs enough? Are there schools with programs that go into the late evening, yes. But that is far from the norm. I was raised in good ol' "Progressive" California, and most of the schools in my district were lucky to provide an hour of after school care.

They are not going to be paid overtime despite this being overtime labor.

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This isn't "overtime labor" it's "volunteer labor." As in no teacher will be required to do it.

Why are you repeating talking points that have been proven false?

 

[GrizzleBoy]

To be fair, the headlines on this bill are fucked, and her campaign should have better anticipated that. Which is a shame, because this bill really is a very good thing for working parents who want a guaranteed safe place for their kids after school. The lengths that people are going to mischaracterize the intent of this bill when the language of it is plain as day (while at the same time claiming they read the thing) is just...sad to me.

Should the working day be shorter? Absolutely. This bill doesn't dispute that. But this bill, to me, rings as the work of a candidate who looked at the problems we're facing with the intent of coming up with immediate solutions. It's going to take a lot of time and persuasive efforts to shorten the national work day. In the meantime, provide more funding for after school programs. What in the freaking hell is wrong with that?

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Yeah and the fact that it's happening on a place like ERA, not even some crap hole like T_D or xChan, but right here just makes me fearful for what people are actually voting for in this election.

It's not okay to just be so lazy as to take headlines that sound like obvious too dumb to actually be true bullshit and blame candidates for believing that headline over what the bill actually says.

I don't even particularly care much about Harris. I'm not even American but reading post after post on a mostly left wing site talking shit about a left wing candidate simply because a news headline told them to do so is worrying as hell.

The bill is incoherent and unintelligible as written. That's just what it is and that's nobody's fault but the authors.

I've already pointed out a few times that this bill actually doesn't do what it says it does multiple times. Its after school money that they have to match to qualify for. Not "extending the school day to match work schedules" that it claims multiple times.

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Except it isn't incoherent and unintelligible as written.

It would never have been thought of as such if it wasn't announced with a bullshit headline to taint impressionable people's (who don't read) minds.

Ten pages on we still have people talking about teachers being forced to do additional hours when the bill CLEARLY points out that teachers NOT being forced to do additional hours if they dont want to is a REQUIREMENT for receiving the damn grant in the first place!!!