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Selfish and Uneducated Take Time - When will Indies Move past the SNES era?

AcidCat

AcidCat

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,410
Bellingham WA
Mik317 said:
i have played enough 2d games for a lifetime.
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Yeah, honestly I totally agree OP. I know there's all kinds of indie games, but what you're describing does seem to be a fairly dominant and long lasting trend in this area. Personally, nostalgia just doesn't work on me very much, and I as well feel like, been there done that with this style of game and it's just not what I want anymore and hasn't been for many years. But, there's clearly a market for it, so I just shrug and move on.
 
Akela

Akela

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,848
What counts as "SNES style"? Pixel art? Honestly there's just as many indie games nowadays adopting hand drawn art styles like Hollow Knight. And modern 2D platformers are just as much inspired by later games as they are from the SNES era - one of the most popular 2D platforming genres nowadays is the Metroidvania, and that genre only really became codified in the PS1 era with the release of Symphony of the Night. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if many indie games nowadays take their inspiration primarily from older indie games like Braid or Sword and Sworcery, alongside modern games like Dark Souls. Mechanically many indie platforms bare little resemblance to the platformers found back in the 16-bit era, which were typically made up of short, obstacle course-like stages in the style of Mario 3 and Mario World.

If every 2D platformer is "SNES-style" or "16-bit" then that term has become completely meaningless. People have been making 2D indie games for longer then the combined length of time both the NES and SNES were on the market. And people are going to continue making 2D games well into the future simply because it's a style of game that's much easier for a small team to produce compared to anything 3D.
 
Magnemania

Magnemania

Member
Jan 25, 2018
421
n64 era, you say?

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Shantae

Shantae

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Feb 15, 2019
852
I think of it this way: The indies of today were the triple AAA studios of yesterday. 3D games that are made today usually required dozens if not hundreds of people to produce. However an indie game is usually only produced by a handful of people, maybe a couple dozen if it's a bigger studio. This is the size studios used to be when 2D was the dominant form of game development. Sure, there may have been bigger teams, but look at the credits for an old 8 or 16 bit game. It's about the size of an indie studio now.
 
OP
OP
Mik317

Mik317

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,771
enjoying the discourse yall

some neat games shown off here (some I knew about...but didn't think were out lol).
 
Zutrax

Zutrax

Member
Oct 31, 2017
4,187
2D and Pixel art gaming are a hallmark of video game aestheticism. No matter how much time passes, we will continue to receive games that look like that. These style of games will continue en masse til the day we die.

People do what they like, and do what they're capable of. It isn't going to end, it'll just be a constant because it's how video games are, and grew up associating their image with.
 
Pollen

Pollen

Banned
Apr 25, 2020
385
I'm not interested in seeing indie teams give up the 2D aesthetic. They are gracefully preserving it and using the medium to its full extent because of the resolution upgrades that were not possible back in the SNES era.

Leave the technically competent 3D offerings to larger studios that can afford it.
 
Aaron D.

Aaron D.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,292
All I play are indies and only like 5% of them have 16-bit graphics.

Sometimes you just gotta educate yourself.
 
TheMadTitan

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,179
werezompire said:
As an indie developer of 2D JRPGs, I'm doomed to have people call my games 8-bit & RPGMaker-based, no matter how advanced we make the visuals, gameplay, or music.
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It's the chibi/super deformed sprites. Anything remnant of Square and Enix games of the time get a lot of shit, even if they're technically superior.

I think the problem is less of those games in particular, regardless of style or quality, but the sheer number of them in comparison to something that errs more on the side of Suikoden 2 or Breath of Fire 4.

Aside from Sea of Stars, I can't think of any other indie RPG that isn't inspired by those two companies visually.
 
neon/drifter

neon/drifter

Shit Shoe Wasp Smasher
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Apr 3, 2018
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methinks this was just OPs misunderstanding of what "indie" means.

indie =/= 2d pixel art
 
Shelbyville Milhouse

Shelbyville Milhouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,378
Mik317 said:
Can people post some examples.

I am legit curious to know what I missed then.

The cost reasoning does make sense of course and its what I figured
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I don't even know where to begin

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Beautiful Desolation

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Disco Elysium

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Bard's Tale IV

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They Are Billions

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Between the Stars

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Pathologic 2

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A Plague Tale

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Red Dead Redemption 2

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Gris

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Mutant Year Zero

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Battletech

And that's just a couple of games that came out within the last 2 years.
I feel like I'm missing something in the OP
 
super moustique

super moustique

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Oct 31, 2017
8,613
TheMadTitan said:
It's the chibi/super deformed sprites. Anything remnant of Square and Enix games of the time get a lot of shit, even if they're technically superior.

I think the problem is less of those games in particular, regardless of style or quality, but the sheer number of them in comparison to something that errs more on the side of Suikoden 2 or Breath of Fire 4.

Aside from Sea of Stars, I can't think of any other indie RPG that isn't inspired by those two companies visually.
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I feel something like BoF 4 would be quite expensive to make.

That game looks so good it's ridiculous.

Mik317 said:
yeah

i am pretty sure i worded the OP wrong lol
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You should update your OP and ask a mod to change your thread's title :P
 
TheMadTitan

TheMadTitan

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Oct 27, 2017
27,179
super moustique said:
I feel something like BoF 4 would be quite expensive to make.

That game looks so good it's ridiculous.
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I was thinking more in terms of style, posture, and scaling of character sprites rather than trying to replicate the whole thing.

Though I do hope someone gets the budget to do this:

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But as a full game and not some old mockup.
 
adit

adit

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Oct 29, 2017
941
tonja
yeah i can't enjoy pixelated artstyle, but i think they are minorities, most indie games using polished graphic tough
 
Roshin

Roshin

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Oct 30, 2017
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Sweden
Haze

Haze

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Oct 25, 2017
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Detroit, MI
Green Slime King said:
But N64 and PS1 games look like hot ass? Why imitate an ugly point in 3D visuals? Also making 3D games is far more time consuming and expensive for these studios. Even if they just went and tried to do 32bit era spritework it would cost too much compared to NES and SNES style art.
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Not necessarily. That lofi aesthetic works really well for horror games or games with horror elements like Paratopic and Dusk.

Off-Peak city also looks fucking ace so we do have indies trying out newer retro styles.

CannonFodder52 spineduke youre both doing the lord's work

I think anyone who thinks indie games are just 8/16 but sidescrollers are looking in the wrong place or willfully ignorant, especially on an enthusiast forum like this.
 
Don Fluffles

Don Fluffles

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Oct 28, 2017
7,051
I agree mostly up to 8-bit. Retro themed games need to ape the 2D visuals of early 90s arcade games and 32-bit RPGs.
 
OP
OP
Mik317

Mik317

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,771
Roshin said:
If you're willing to dismiss loads of great games for those reasons. I don't think you're really interested, and that's fine. Play something else instead.



Seriously, I would support this.
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I mean I tried to word it as nicely as I could (still fucked up apparently if people want my thread creation abilities revoked)

and its not like I haven't tried many of these games I am poorly describing. By SNES era I am talking about gameplay wise. I used to love 2D platformers but they simply don't do it for me anymore. Especially since many of them tend to ape Metroid, something I didn't get to experience as a Sega Kid, and by the time I could I was already in this mode of meh2d I guess. For example, my favorite thing in gaming is character movement. The 3D mario games have awesome movement options. Nier A is as high in my regard a lot due to how 2B glides around the world. Dragon's Dogma mixture of fighting game qsue movesets in a 3D space. KH2's movement options. Thats my shit. IMO a lot of that obviously started in the 64 era with the tons of collectathons (many of which I am certain have aged like spoiled milk lol). I just don't get that feeling from 2D games (not as much there are some that gives me this feel). SNES era was poor wording on my part but still.

I guess I want more games with great movement in 3D space? Its not like AAA always brings that either with many games going for a more grounded approach. Shit one of the few games remaining this year that I am hyped for is Genshin Impact. BOTW clone or not, it seems to give me the flop around a big ass space feeling I yearn for lol.

And again I mean no diss towards games of the 2D variety. Just like FPS or other genres not for me I am sure there are a ton.

i also created this thread to get some cool indie games I didn't know of...and that has worked nicely
 
Mugman

Mugman

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Oct 27, 2017
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It's been mentioned a couple times, but I just wanted to throw one more into the ring for Anodyne 2. One of my favorite games from last year, and it absolutely nails all the best parts of the lowpoly PS1 aesthetic.
 
Mentalist

Mentalist

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Mar 14, 2019
17,949
Mik317 said:
I tried to label the thread in the least offensive manner but I will cop pleas still. I am not saying Indies suck or are bad. I have not enjoyed many of them but thats not the point. I also know that game development is hard and even more so on a lower budget

HOWEVA time to show my whole ass and go

man everytime I see a thread for a new game, enter it and see that it is another 2-d sidescroller that imitates old school games I won't lie that I am disappoint every time lol. I wish they'd atleast move on to imitating the ps1 and n64 era lol. I grew up with a Genesis and enjoyed those games but like that food you ate a lot as a child...i have played enough 2d games for a lifetime.

anyone else feel this way? Or have other selfish and uneducated hot takes they know is really bad but still secretly hold. Let your shame run free
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Go to Steam

Search for action adventure

Filter out side scrolling and 2D

Observe at least several dozen 3D games no one ever talks about.

There aren't nearly as many as there are 2D roguelite metroidvanias, but they're out there.

The problem is, no media outlets ever reviews them (unless you can find a small-time YouTuber who shares the same interests as you), and they rarely get any social media traction, or even views/comments on Era.
 

RedDevil

Member
Dec 25, 2017
4,121
To answer to the title of the thread proper, many had moved past that for a while now, while they're still 2D games they're well above the capabilities of what 16 bit consoles could pull, I guess the title should point out the issue of 2D/3D rather than strictly sticking to a bit comparison.

Now strictly speaking of 2D and 3D, I guess 3D is harder and complicated for indie developers to tackle, even if you went for low-poly graphics of the early 32/64 bit era.
 
Bushido

Bushido

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Feb 6, 2018
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Some indie games from the last couple of years which I really enjoyed and are not 2D sidescrollers:

- Subnautica
- Outer Wilds
- Return of the Obra Dinn
- Mutant Year Zero
- Firewatch
- The Witness
- The Touryst
- Thumper
- Lonely Mountains Downhill
- Sayonara Wild Hearts
- Superhot
- Hyper Light Drifter
- Golf Story

Indies which are 2D sidescrollers but certainly wouldn't have been possible on SNES:

- Cuphead
- Ori and the Blind Forest/Will of the Wisps
- Yoku's Island Express
- Hollow Knight
- Dead Cells
- The Messenger
- Yooka- Laylee and the Impossible Lair
- Katana Zero
- Steamworld Dig 2
 
RedSwirl

RedSwirl

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Oct 25, 2017
10,048
CannonFodder52 said:
I think this thread may have made sense like 3 or 4 years ago, but indies with a PS1 or similar visual style have been blowing up as of recent. Walking sims have come into their own, there are experimental titles like Her Story Hypnospace Outlaw, Return of the Obra Dinn and much more.








www.pcgamer.com

Inside the next indie frontier: PS1-style horror games

The low-poly 3D aesthetic of the Haunted PS1 Demo Disc is the new frontier of indie style.
www.pcgamer.com www.pcgamer.com

Just recently, Return of the Obra Dinn, Night in the Woods, Disco Elysium, Kentucky Route Zero and The Outer Wilds released, probably all classify as indie and blow most AAA titles out of the water. I would take these five games over the entirety of triple A games from this past gen.

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Exactly.

One issue though is almost none of the PS1-style indie games are coming out on consoles. The only one I can think of is Back in 1995.
 
Syranth

Syranth

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Oct 28, 2017
961
When making a full 3D game doesn't cost an arm and a leg. It's indi for a reason. Also.... why is art art?
 
QuixoticNeutral

QuixoticNeutral

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Oct 25, 2017
2,644
Indie developers who work in 2D aren't merely leaning on nostalgia. They're picking up where the industry unwisely left off in the late nineties and early 2000s when the work of tapping the full potential of the traditional 2D genres remained neglected and unfinished.

I can't see myself ever tiring of this, not when I already survived the drought.

And that's before you account for all the counterexamples already posted in this thread of just how diverse the market really is. The "indie" classification has already felt obsolete for years. Indie games are just games; indeed, they are the majority of games. The outsized attention and coverage devoted to the big-budget, AAA side of the industry feels like a relic of the media environment from twenty years ago, particularly in the console sphere. If anything, it's the indie market that captures how video games used to feel, particularly in the wild west of the PC scene.

Christopher Robin said:
I think of it this way: The indies of today were the triple AAA studios of yesterday. 3D games that are made today usually required dozens if not hundreds of people to produce. However an indie game is usually only produced by a handful of people, maybe a couple dozen if it's a bigger studio. This is the size studios used to be when 2D was the dominant form of game development. Sure, there may have been bigger teams, but look at the credits for an old 8 or 16 bit game. It's about the size of an indie studio now.
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Exactly. This is a familiar, comforting scope and pace of development to those of us who have long been left behind as players by the consolidated AAA conglomerates.
 
Vincent Grayson

Vincent Grayson

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Oct 27, 2017
5,845
Mount Airy, MD
I feel like most indies that do 2D pseudo-8/16bit graphics look so much better than actual NES/SNES games that it doesn't bother me.

If anything, I'd love to see more games that take advantage of sprites and 2D, especially if the other option would be N64/PSX-era looks.
 
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