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Selfish and Uneducated Take Time - When will Indies Move past the SNES era?

Mik317

Mik317

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,777
I tried to label the thread in the least offensive manner but I will cop pleas still. I am not saying Indies suck or are bad. I have not enjoyed many of them but thats not the point. I also know that game development is hard and even more so on a lower budget

HOWEVA time to show my whole ass and go

man everytime I see a thread for a new game, enter it and see that it is another 2-d sidescroller that imitates old school games I won't lie that I am disappoint every time lol. I wish they'd atleast move on to imitating the ps1 and n64 era lol. I grew up with a Genesis and enjoyed those games but like that food you ate a lot as a child...i have played enough 2d games for a lifetime.

anyone else feel this way? Or have other selfish and uneducated hot takes they know is really bad but still secretly hold. Let your shame run free
 

Raccoon

Member
May 31, 2019
15,896
For most small teams, making a beautiful 2D game is more achievable than making an adequate looking 3D one.
 
Richietto

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,993
North Carolina
But N64 and PS1 games look like hot ass? Why imitate an ugly point in 3D visuals? Also making 3D games is far more time consuming and expensive for these studios. Even if they just went and tried to do 32bit era spritework it would cost too much compared to NES and SNES style art.
 
Gay Bowser

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,707
There are plenty of 3D indie games. Like, Microsoft's big Inside Xbox show was full of them.

Like, whatyearisit.jpg, srsly.

I guess it's cool that you're owning your ignorance, though?
 
entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,128
There's a lot of full 3d games in the indie space. Not getting your complaint.
 
Lant_War

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,580
There are literally hundreds of games that explore other artstyles other than 8-16 bit pixel art. Hell, most pixel art indies don't really try to look like SNES games.
 
MaverickHunterAsh

MaverickHunterAsh

Good Vibes Gaming
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
1,395
Los Angeles, CA.
Nope. I will appreciate, want, and buy 8- and 16-bit retro style 2D platformers until the day I die. Literally can't ever have enough of them IMO, as long as they're well-made, quality games. Obviously I don't just want shovelware.
 
Mekanos

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,174
Green Slime King said:
But N64 and PS1 games look like hot ass? Why imitate an ugly point in 3D visuals? Also making 3D games is far more time consuming and expensive for these studios. Even if they just went and tried to do 32bit era spritework it would cost too much compared to NES and SNES style art.
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I mean I think those games can be charming visually. The blockiness and rough textures leaves things to your imagination. Especially for horror games, the muddy look can intensify the atmosphere.
 
OP
OP
Mik317

Mik317

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,777
Can people post some examples.

I am legit curious to know what I missed then.

The cost reasoning does make sense of course and its what I figured
 
andymcc

andymcc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,315
Columbus, OH
Mik317 said:
Can people post some examples.

I am legit curious to know what I missed then.

The cost reasoning does make sense of course and its what I figured
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if you think Sonic Mania looks identical to a 16-bit game, I'd like to see which Sonic games you played as a kid (the dev team envisioned it as Sonic running on the Saturn and it shows)

if you think Blazing Chrome, Streets of Rage 4, Monster Boy, Hollow Knight, etc. look like SNES games... seriously-- you don't have a good understanding of the "snes era"-- but I guess you did preface the thread with "uneducated".
 
werezompire

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,372
Even when indies move past the SNES era, as long as the game is 2D, people will call it SNES-style anyway.
 
Watchtower

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,652
Raccoon said:
For most small teams, making a beautiful 2D game is more achievable than making an adequate looking 3D one.
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This.

Green Slime King said:
But N64 and PS1 games look like hot ass? Why imitate an ugly point in 3D visuals?
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Also this. There's no tangible nostalgia for 64-bit 3D because it's generally seen as a product of the limitations of its time. When indie games go 3D it's usually in stylistic ways that far exceeds 64-bit (SUPERHOT, Untitled Goose Game, etc.).

Also just because it's 2D pixel-art doesn't mean it could run on an SNES or Genesis. You ain't running Shovel Knight or Celeste on either of those.
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
Random examples:

ss_058c688a6f07a4624b4f775b3e71df8037ef4df2.1920x1080.jpg

Overcooked

ss_aece490dab1384513c7250df3043973ff396ff29.1920x1080.jpg

Risk of Rain 2

ss_155f385e0a74ccfef1559a16da9447a1efec185e.1920x1080.jpg

Bright Memory: Infinite

ss_e1ff7136ca1846b3039a524e7f55ee78b85dca2d.1920x1080.jpg

Operencia: The Stolen Sun
 
Aurica

Aurica

音楽オタク - Comics Council 2020
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
23,495
A mountain in the US
Mik317 said:
Can people post some examples.

I am legit curious to know what I missed then.

The cost reasoning does make sense of course and its what I figured
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A quick google search reveals many from just 2019: Untitled Goose Game, Outer Wilds, Wargroove, Afterparty, Disco Elysium, Sayonara Wild Hearts, What the Golf, A Short Hike, Void Bastards, Kind Words, Neo Cab, Indivisible, Sunless Skies, Lonely Mountains: Downhill, Heaven's Vault, Hypnospace Outlaw, Wattam, Yooka-Laylee and the Impossible Lair, and Tangle Tower.

You didn't look very hard before making your thread.
MaverickHunterAsh said:
Nope. I will appreciate, want, and buy 8- and 16-bit retro style 2D platformers until the day I die. Literally can't ever have enough of them IMO, as long as they're well-made, quality games. Obviously I don't just want shovelware.
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I feel the same. I love the look of 16+ especially. I want to have variety in the visuals of my games. Can't imagine blocking out such a significant piece of the market when, despite having 8-bit or 16-bit visuals in common, their aesthetics are extremely disparate.
 
Hilarious_Bearious

Hilarious_Bearious

Member
Nov 4, 2017
7,377
You are woefully ignorant or smoking crack if you think fourth gen consoles could run the likes of Dead Cells, Owlboy or Celeste. There's nothing SNES or Genesis about the hit 2D Indies of recent years.
 
Jamesac68

Jamesac68

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,396
Mik317 said:
I grew up with a Genesis and enjoyed those games but like that food you ate a lot as a child...i have played enough 2d games for a lifetime.
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And with that, I got nothin'.

That's actually not true, because there are retro-PS1-style games out there, but no way in hell am I getting involved in 2D vs 3D. It was bad in the PS1/N64 era and it's bad now.
 
OP
OP
Mik317

Mik317

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,777
andymcc said:
if you think Sonic Mania looks identical to a 16-bit game, I'd like to see which Sonic games you played as a kid (the dev team envisioned it as Sonic running on the Saturn and it shows)

if you think Blazing Chrome, Streets of Rage 4, Monster Boy, Hollow Knight, etc. look like SNES games... seriously-- you don't have a good understanding of the "snes era"-- but I guess you did preface the thread with "uneducated".
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Obviously these games are beyond what those systems could do hardware wise. Like Shovel Knight tries to replicate it but tech wise is far beyond....

i meant gameplay wise. Don't know when it happened but 2D games have bored me for a looooong time now for some reason. There are tons of games out so its cool and even if not, the cost reason and the fact that I am not the center of the universe also makes it fine. Just was wondering why the nostalgia boom for ps1/n64 era games hasn;t bloomed yet is all...thats the era I think i'm missing with the death of the AA games really.

just personal taste at the end of the day tho
 
SilkySm00th

SilkySm00th

Member
Oct 31, 2017
4,803
You'll catch some crap here (as evidenced by replies) but i'm with you my guy. 2D sidescrollers or point and click adventures or whatever hold no nostalgia or anything in my brain. A fully realized 3D world - even if it's fairly basic - will always be more compelling and fun to explore for me. I think it's the realization of 3D space and the different thinking it takes to navigate said space that attracts me but there is not and I don't believe ever will be a 2D game that I would argue is as fun to play or as properly realized as a good 3D game.

Now as to why indies don't make em? It's cause it's too expensive. Flat out. A lot of these companies that you see making 2d platformers WOULD be making fully realized 3D adventure or what have you games but they simply can't due to time/cost restraints. When tools come into play that make constructing and populating these worlds with interesting things and characters a lot easier you'll see a new wave of Indie games coming out that more directly compete with the normal AAA content you are used to seeing.

For me an easy example of this is something like SC/DoA and Mortal Kombat. I understand the quality of MK. I know tons of people love it. But not being able to step into or away from the screen when fighting feels archaic in the same way as tank controls or something like that does.
 
xxracerxx

xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
31,222
Mik317 said:
Obviously these games are beyond what those systems could do hardware wise. Like Shovel Knight tries to replicate it but tech wise is far beyond....

i meant gameplay wise. Don't know when it happened but 2D games have bored me for a looooong time now for some reason. There are tons of games out so its cool and even if not, the cost reason and the fact that I am not the center of the universe also makes it fine. Just was wondering why the nostalgia boom for ps1/n64 era games hasn;t bloomed yet is all...thats the era I think i'm missing with the death of the AA games really.

just personal taste at the end of the day tho
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AA equals PS1/N64 games is a take right there.
 
sredgrin

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
You won't see widespread aping of PS1 and N64.

You see pixel and sidescrollers because those are largely timeless. The Huntdown isn't good looking because it's aping something, it's just good looking. Aping the early 3d days is gonna just be fugly a lot of times.
 
OP
OP
Mik317

Mik317

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,777
xxracerxx said:
AA equals PS1/N64 games is a take right there.
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maybe I am wording it wrong but many of those genres are fucking dead nowadays because they don't fit into the AAA standard, no?

I think I am really just waiting for the collect-a-thon mascot platformer to get its return moment lol, A Hat in Time was a start but for some reason the game made me nauseous? Yooka-Laylee sucked IMO tho....so maybe not.
 
PersianPrince

PersianPrince

Member
Feb 12, 2019
1,655
I can't say I share the same feeling. I grew up in the late 80's/90's and I love nostalgic things so I will take every NES/SNES looking game that comes my way. Pixel art and chiptunes are just pure dopamine for me.

I also had an N64 and PS1 and many of those games look awful and have not held up well. You should play Anodyne 2 if you want games reminiscent of the late 90's. It looks absolutely horrid.
 
SageShinigami

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,474
I wish people would play FromSoft and indies and Nintendo and leave me and my "boring" open world games alone. Every time a new one gets announced they come out of nowhere to tell me how "tired" they are of games like this. Bruh I swear there's plenty of stuff for you.
 
spineduke

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,754
Mik317 said:
I tried to label the thread in the least offensive manner but I will cop pleas still. I am not saying Indies suck or are bad. I have not enjoyed many of them but thats not the point. I also know that game development is hard and even more so on a lower budget

HOWEVA time to show my whole ass and go

man everytime I see a thread for a new game, enter it and see that it is another 2-d sidescroller that imitates old school games I won't lie that I am disappoint every time lol. I wish they'd atleast move on to imitating the ps1 and n64 era lol. I grew up with a Genesis and enjoyed those games but like that food you ate a lot as a child...i have played enough 2d games for a lifetime.

anyone else feel this way? Or have other selfish and uneducated hot takes they know is really bad but still secretly hold. Let your shame run free
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There's an immense amount of releases per month - you'll definitely find what you're looking for, but its hard to keep on top of things

these two released just today





and another for good measure

 
Dogui

Dogui

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,813
Brazil
I feel like people treat every 2D indie as a 8/16 bit retro game when a lot of them are just minimalistic and don't have any intention of being similar at all. Think Hotline Miami, or Super Meat Boy, Risk of Rain, Celeste...none of them are meant to be retro snes lookalikes.

A game can be 2D and look for a different aesthetic at the same time.

Also, 3D games are obviously more complex. It's a matter of budget.
 
GattsuSama

GattsuSama

Member
Mar 12, 2020
1,761
Some people being mean on the thread when OP seems sincere. And I get what he meant bu SNES era and why he had to frame it as not wanting to be offensive...but still people were.

I myself would say No Man's Sky is an indie game.

My other 2 must plays would be: Outer Wilds and Obra Dinn
 
hey it's that dog

hey it's that dog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,105
Indies make all kinds of stuff. Therefore you must mean "when will not a single indie continue to make 16-bit era graphics?" To which the answer is obviously "never."
 
OP
OP
Mik317

Mik317

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,777
SageShinigami said:
I wish people would play FromSoft and indies and Nintendo and leave me and my "boring" open world games alone. Every time a new one gets announced they come out of nowhere to tell me how "tired" they are of games like this. Bruh I swear there's plenty of stuff for you.
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i feel you

i have not beaten many open world games due to their size but generally have enjoyed the experience for the bit I do put intp them
 
OP
OP
Mik317

Mik317

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,777
....going to be a shitbaby but I also wish many of these recs weren't first person lol. I can't play first person games for too long but beggars cant be choosers
 
CannonFodder52

CannonFodder52

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,007
Canada
Mik317 said:
Can people post some examples.

I am legit curious to know what I missed then.

The cost reasoning does make sense of course and its what I figured
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I think this thread may have made sense like 3 or 4 years ago, but indies with a PS1 or similar visual style have been blowing up as of recent. Walking sims have come into their own, there are experimental titles like Her Story Hypnospace Outlaw, Return of the Obra Dinn and much more.








www.pcgamer.com

Inside the next indie frontier: PS1-style horror games

The low-poly 3D aesthetic of the Haunted PS1 Demo Disc is the new frontier of indie style.
www.pcgamer.com www.pcgamer.com

Just recently, Return of the Obra Dinn, Night in the Woods, Disco Elysium, Kentucky Route Zero and The Outer Wilds released, probably all classify as indie and blow most AAA titles out of the water. I would take these five games over the entirety of triple A games from this past gen.

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