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Deleted member 37739

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 8, 2018
908
but you quit no?

how can you get that feeling when you quit?

i have never beaten a souls game before until i beat sekiro.

sekiro triggered my love for Souls games, even if it is so different to the other ones

Nothing pushed me forward. Like I said, there were harder encounters in previous From games, but Sekiro just didn't captivate me. Every time I pushed through an encounter it was a more a sense of relief that it was over than one of elation at having overcome the challenge.
 

Alexhex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,881
Canada
I don't really see how difficulty is linked to accessibility.
there are some accessibility options that have zero effect on difficulty, but there can be a lot of overlap too. Fps game give me a sense of simulation sickness that no amount of fov options have really aided, so easy modes have let me play these games in a way where I don't need to whip the camera around as much which makes the feeling more manageable. It's not really hard to see how certain disabilities or just general human quirks could effect a person's reaction time or physical dexterity, and how in turn easier difficulty options might be useful in these cases

I think people really need to actually consider the experiences of people who benefit from these options options before saying that these are two entirely different conversations, because they really aren't in some cases
 

Jonathan Lanza

"I've made a Gigantic mistake"
Member
Feb 8, 2019
6,794
It doesn't even matter if it's an actual thing. It's the devs philosophy. Not mine, not that of other fans. It's their design goal. How much they are able to accomplish it has no bearing of the matter whether it exists or not.
Just because some people use trainers to beat their games doesn't suddenly mean they should implement a god mode in their game. That's what I meant whhen I said these are people with an agenda, not robots.
The community back then started to grow because of the very fact there's just one dificulty. They were fewer people, there weren't any trainers, everyone just was eager to help each other out all the time, everywhere. There is a reason for that, and it won't disappoear because you refuse to acknowledge it.
Nobody says it's the only reason. Nobody says these games get defined solely by the fact they have one difficulty. But over a decade now this has been a core part of their design philosophy, and as long they don't see a reason to change it, they won't. The end.
And people still help eachother out...
And the community still continues to grow...
All of these things CONTINUE to happen even with the existence of trainers
even with the existence of guides
despite the fact that people have completely different experiences with these games, all of the things that you mentioned that
were a result of the philosophy CONTINUE to happen. I don't see how you can't understand that the practical reality of the situation is that
people having all of these different options to play the game doesn't worsen anyone's experience. The players experience matters just as much as what the developers intended because at the end of the day
video games are made to be experienced by people.

Miyazaki and crew developed the game with a specific intention. That intention did not end up exactly reflecting what actually ended up happening. There is no singular shared experience and that's perfectly fine.
Having these options available would simply be the developers acknowledging the reality of the situation. This would not be a negative change to their philosophy. Practically speaking it wouldn't effect it at all as they could keep doing the same practices and whatnot and
have the options as a complete aside. The idea that this incredibly slight change would make the games worse, or make the developers upset or make people hate the game is a complete exaggeration that frankly doesn't seem rational.
 

Alexhex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,881
Canada
The idea that this incredibly slight change would make the games worse, or make the developers upset or make people hate the game is a complete exaggeration that frankly doesn't seem rational.
It's not. I don't know what happens in a person's brain when they read "I know the devs don't want to implement [thing] but I would like to talk about and advocate for it anyway" and translate it into "they should be forced to do [thing]" but clearly some weird disconnect happening. And funny how it never really comes up when other mechanical aspects are criticized.
 

Deleted member 37739

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 8, 2018
908
I'd always bitched about the actual levels sometimes feeling light, and too easy, on combat between the punishing-as-fuck mini-bosses littered at every turn at one point and you using the term "boss rush feel" is right on the money for my experience. I remember beating Genichiro and actively thinking "fuck, I wonder how impossible the next thing is going to be, great..." instead of feeling excited to explore the next area, and quite frankly looking back on the game, I feel like I should've stopped there. I'm not a throw-my-controller-hate-rage type of player at all but this game just turned me into a bitter asshole for the remainder of it afterwards. The only positive memory I have of the rest of the game was that the final area is beautiful and feels fresh for From so I'm glad I got to see that.

I mean, there is a definite lack of congruity between general exploration and boss encounters: one encourages traversal, stealth and avoiding combat altogether if you can (there's little to be gained from the grind) and the other challenges you to master very demanding, reflex-based combat where stealth and traversal go right out the window. In short, what you learn in one part of the game will help very little with other and vice versa.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
And people still help eachother out...
And the community still continues to grow...
All of these things CONTINUE to happen even with the existence of trainers
even with the existence of guides
despite the fact that people have completely different experiences with these games, all of the things that you mentioned that
were a result of the philosophy CONTINUE to happen. I don't see how you can't understand that the practical reality of the situation is that
people having all of these different options to play the game doesn't worsen anyone's experience. The players experience matters just as much as what the developers intended because at the end of the day
video games are made to be experienced by people.

Miyazaki and crew developed the game with a specific intention. That intention did not end up exactly reflecting what actually ended up happening. There is no singular shared experience and that's perfectly fine.
Having these options available would simply be the developers acknowledging the reality of the situation. This would not be a negative change to their philosophy. Practically speaking it wouldn't effect it at all as they could keep doing the same practices and whatnot and
have the options as a complete aside. The idea that this incredibly slight change would make the games worse, or make the developers upset or make people hate the game is a complete exaggeration that frankly doesn't seem rational.
People who use trainers don't need others to help them out. Miyazaki obviously wants people to help each other out, so why on earth would he want to add a trainer to the game? Just because some people do it doesn't mean he has to implement it on his end.
Guides are written by the community. The core experience the dev provides you is the same across the board. What you make with it is up to you, in the bounds of what tools the devs intend to give you as they intended, or not.
For the third time, it doesn't fucking matter what the reality of the situation looks like. Miyazaki isn't obliged to accomodate to people who want to experience his games in ways he didn't intend them to. They can do that as much as they want to, but he doesn't have to change his design philosphy according to their ways of playing his games.

There is a shared experience. It's literally layed out by the devs. Just because not everyone wants to take part in it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or that Miyazaki has to take into consideration people who don't want to take part in it. It's really not that hard. Miyazaki and co. obviously don't care what practically effects the game, they care about what they want to provide people with. And that's perfectly fine.
 

Lothars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,765
Yep exactly. I feel like some people don't really care about accessibility options like full controller mapping etc and just want an easier game but lump it all under one word.
than your not getting it, it's all related full button mapping and even the option of the lower difficulty are all similar parts of accessibility and would ideally be highlighted because it would bring more people into their games.

Also can you stop lumping in difficulty with other accesibility options? Because absolutely noone is arguing against those.
no because it's directly related to both parts of the conversation.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
I hope one day I understand the parry mechanic on this game. I spent 3 hours to kill lady butterfly and was pure lucky I abandoned the game after that :/
Lady Butterly is an optional boss, you could've gone back to her after you progressed through th story a bit more. One or two buffs to your damage and health already work wonders. Also what is it exactly you're not understanding with the parry mechanic?
 
Dec 2, 2017
3,435
there are some accessibility options that have zero effect on difficulty, but there can be a lot of overlap too. Fps game give me a sense of simulation sickness that no amount of fov options have really aided, so easy modes have let me play these games in a way where I don't need to whip the camera around as much which makes the feeling more manageable. It's not really hard to see how certain disabilities or just general human quirks could effect a person's reaction time or physical dexterity, and how in turn easier difficulty options might be useful in these cases

I think people really need to actually consider the experiences of people who benefit from these options options before saying that these are two entirely different conversations, because they really aren't in some cases

Not just that, people should be diving into accessibility options regardless of whether they perceive an explicit need. Often they're straight up enhancements.

Mac OS has tons of great gestural, text shortcut and reading options buried in accessibility. They've been central to streamlining how I use my computer for so long that I forgot they were optional until I upgraded & had to re-enable them.

Plenty of games have great options too which do things like change HUDs/reticles to more noticeable colours or button shortcuts that are just better than the default rather than dumbing it down. Especially in competitive games, I see streamers using them all the time.

The more people use these things, the more developers will see the demand and utility of them.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
no because it's directly related to both parts of the conversation.
When noone is arguing against these other accessability options, then acting like people do is a shitty thing to do, plain and simple. Seeing how you just selectively quote and answer to things I'm done discussiing this with you anyway. I'm tired of people making up motivations for others just because they disagree with them. Have a nice day.
 

Bosch

Banned
May 15, 2019
3,680
Lady Butterly is an optional boss, you could've gone back to her after you progressed through th story a bit more. One or two buffs to your damage and health already work wonders. Also what is it exactly you're not understanding with the parry mechanic?
To break opponent, like when the red symbol appears
 

Lothars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,765
When noone is arguing against these other accessability options, then acting like people do is a shitty thing to do, plain and simple. Seeing how you just selectively quote and answer to things I'm done discussiing this with you anyway. I'm tired of people making up motivations for others just because they disagree with them. Have a nice day.
I'm not making up motivations, I haven't changed anything you or anyone else has said and I stand by my posts but that's fine and I hope you have a good day to.
 

Alexhex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,881
Canada
Not just that, people should be diving into accessibility options regardless of whether they perceive an explicit need. Often they're straight up enhancements.

Mac OS has tons of great gestural, text shortcut and reading options buried in accessibility. They've been central to streamlining how I use my computer for so long that I forgot they were optional until I upgraded & had to re-enable them.

Plenty of games have great options too which do things like change HUDs/reticles to more noticeable colours or button shortcuts that are just better than the default rather than dumbing it down. Especially in competitive games, I see streamers using them all the time.

The more people use these things, the more developers will see the demand and utility of them.
oh yeah this is such a great point. It really is just a good thing for players and devs alike to explore because of the "I didn't even know this was something I wanted" factor haha
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
To break opponent, like when the red symbol appears
Do you mean the symbol that comes when you can take a lifepoint or the one for unblockable attacks?

For the former: It's their posture bar. You have one, they have one. By parrying you increase their meter. The meter regenerates, so it's wise to always be in combat outside of healing and regenerating your own posture.

The lower their health is, the slower their posture regenerates, so it's always good to get health damage in, too.
Getting their health to 0 brings up the symbol to break the opponent as well, but filling the postrue bar is quicker most of the time.

This entire system goes both ways, too. You are impacted by all these rules as well.

If you mean the unblockable attacks: if it's a horizontal sweep, jump over it (and on their head afterwards, for extra posture/health damage)
If it's a thrust, use your mikiri counter you should have at this point and dodge into the attack.
 

Bosch

Banned
May 15, 2019
3,680
Do you mean the symbol that comes when you can take a lifepoint or the one for unblockable attacks?

For the former: It's their posture bar. You have one, they have one. By parrying you increase their meter. The meter regenerates, so it's wise to always be in combat outside of healing and regenerating your own posture.

The lower their health is, the slower their posture regenerates, so it's always good to get health damage in, too.
Getting their health to 0 brings up the symbol to break the opponent as well, but filling the postrue bar is quicker most of the time.

This entire system goes both ways, too. You are impacted by all these rules as well.

If you mean the unblockable attacks: if it's a horizontal sweep, jump over it (and on their head afterwards, followed by two airswpies for extra posture/health damage)
If it's a thrust, use your mikiri counter you should have at this point and dodge into the attack.
unblockable attacks. thanks, i will give a chance again. handled all souls, bloodborne and nioh easy but this game... man...
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
unblockable attacks. thanks, i will give a chance again. handled all souls, bloodborne and nioh easy but this game... man...
Yeah it's hard to adjust, especially at the start, and especially for people who are used to the other combat style.
For my first playthrough it was easily the hardest of these games for me, but after that it became one of the easier ones.

Always keep in mind that you have infinite stamina, it's soo easy to forget that and play like you would in Souls.

As soon the sign for an unblockable attack appears, look at their animation windup. Usually it's relatively clear whether it's a sweep or thrust early enough to react to it.

Oh, and when your posture is full and you disengage from combat to regenerate, hold block. That way you regenerate it faster, which in turn lets you go in again faster, which in turn leads to their meter filling quicker.

PS: disregard the swipes mid air for now, you need a specific skill for that.
 

Bosch

Banned
May 15, 2019
3,680
Yeah it's hard to adjust, especially at the start, and especially for people who are used to the other combat style.
For my first playthrough it was easily the hardest of these games for me, but after that it became one of the easier ones.

Always keep in mind that you have infinite stamina, it's soo easy to forget that and play like you would in Souls.

As soon the sign for an unblockable attack appears, look at their animation windup. Usually it's relatively clear whether it's a sweep or thrust early enough to react to it.

Oh, and when your posture is full and you disengage from combat to regenerate, hold block. That way you regenerate it faster, which in turn lets you go in again faster, which in turn leads to their meter filling quicker.

PS: disregard the swipes mid air for now, you need a specific skill for that.
Thanks for everything. I will give a try again in January.
 
literally no one say difficulty is bad, they just said accessibility options are good
This was much more what the whole difficulty discussion was really about not if a player needs to be respected.
For me I was really happy with Fromsoft's approach to difficulty since it allow to get better at a game by seeing my action and naturally get better.
However, there are many people who would love to get through their games but can't because of how their games are.
From probably knows this but wont change their design set cause it is something they both works with their knowledge and allows them to create experiences that couldn't be done with traditional ways.
At most it really comes to other devs to make similar souls games that can be more flexible.
And for the people who trying to champion this notion of difficulty games, stop it. You doing what fighting game fans did a few years ago, gatekeep a series.
 

Jonathan Lanza

"I've made a Gigantic mistake"
Member
Feb 8, 2019
6,794
People who use trainers don't need others to help them out. Miyazaki obviously wants people to help each other out, so why on earth would he want to add a trainer to the game? Just because some people do it doesn't mean he has to implement it on his end.
Guides are written by the community. The core experience the dev provides you is the same across the board. What you make with it is up to you, in the bounds of what tools the devs intend to give you as they intended, or not.
For the third time, it doesn't fucking matter what the reality of the situation looks like. Miyazaki isn't obliged to accomodate to people who want to experience his games in ways he didn't intend them to. They can do that as much as they want to, but he doesn't have to change his design philosphy according to their ways of playing his games.

There is a shared experience. It's literally layed out by the devs. Just because not everyone wants to take part in it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or that Miyazaki has to take into consideration people who don't want to take part in it. It's really not that hard. Miyazaki and co. obviously don't care what practically effects the game, they care about what they want to provide people with. And that's perfectly fine.
People having different experiences is not always a concious choice. Someone having an easy time with the game isn't because they willingly decided to not take part in the game. That's just a matter of someone being different from other people and thus having an unintended experience.
Same with if someone played the game online or not. Some people don't play online purely out of circumstance from having bad internet or just not having PS+. You are perpetuating an idea that if someone does something unexpected then that means they are willingly going against the game's design and that's just not the case. Just like how the design of the game encouraged people to enjoy it differently then intended the design of the game will also cause people to engage with it differently then intended. Like you said the developers aren't robots, they can't see every possible future.

There are shared experiences but there is definitely not a singular one. And when your experience is different from others that is not necessarily your fault or even a bad thing.

And can we stop with this "what they HAVE to do" narrative? From doesn't HAVE to do anything. They can make a Puyo Puyo puzzle game if they wanted to. The conversation isn't what they have to do but what would be a good idea.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,631
Where is all this fervor around accessibility and options when pokemon releases yet another braindead easy game? the type of thinking should be held to all devs and not just cherry-picked on soulsborne devs.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
People having different experiences is not always a concious choice. Someone having an easy time with the game isn't because they willingly decided to not take part in the game. That's just a matter of someone being different from other people and thus having an unintended experience.
Same with if someone played the game online or not. Some people don't play online purely out of circumstance from having bad internet or just not having PS+. You are perpetuating an idea that if someone does something unexpected then that means they are willingly going against the game's design and that's just not the case. Just like how the design of the game encouraged people to enjoy it differently then intended the design of the game will also cause people to engage with it differently then intended. Like you said the developers aren't robots, they can't see every possible future.

There are shared experiences but there is definitely not a singular one. And when your experience is different from others that is not necessarily your fault or even a bad thing.

And can we stop with this "what they HAVE to do" narrative? From doesn't HAVE to do anything. They can make a Puyo Puyo puzzle game if they wanted to. The conversation isn't what they have to do but what would be a good idea.
Of course it's not always concious, but the decisions the devs make are. It's not unexpected for people to play offline or not having PS+. That's something the devs obviously took into account. They don't have to take people into account that circumvent their entire gameplay loop by using trainers by adding god mode or modifiers. And yes, I say "HAVE to", because you have people in this very thread "demanding" they change, calling them "assholes" for not doing it, "ableist" for simply stating their design philosphy (jfc), or just "gatekeepers". And by proxy everyone who agrees with their current design decisions. Oh I forgot those also get called "elitist".

That's the actual narrative, so yeah, they don't HAVE to do any of this, and it's pretty obvious why I'm formulating it this way.

Miyazaki's goal is to create an experience where everyone faces the same challenges. A sense of companionship between the people trying to overcome his challenges, having them lay down messages ingame, summon others, give each other tips online. Something that, for some weird reason, doesn't happen to the same extent with other games. I wonder why that is. That doesn't mean everyone engages with the games in that manner, but that doesn't change anything about Miyazaki's intent.

It worked, it still works, and as of now he sees no reason for deviating from it.
 
Last edited:

Alexhex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,881
Canada
Where is all this fervor around accessibility and options when pokemon releases yet another braindead easy game? the type of thinking should be held to all devs and not just cherry-picked on soulsborne devs.
You see a lot of the discussion focused around FROM games because people jump to their defense immediately since so many view their exact difficulty balance as integral to the experience, and difficulty can have a huge impact on this stuff. No one has it out for Sekiro, I promise you

But I mean there was a huge amount of discussion around the removal of options like the exp. share toggle, wonder trade, ect. in Pokemon. That's not exactly acceptability but it's in the spirit of opening games up and providing options. Also there were accessibility complaints when it came to Let's Go because of the mandatory motion controls, and Sword/Shield actually caught some praise because of its simplified control scheme options which allow it to be played with one hand
 

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,958
Nothing pushed me forward. Like I said, there were harder encounters in previous From games, but Sekiro just didn't captivate me. Every time I pushed through an encounter it was a more a sense of relief that it was over than one of elation at having overcome the challenge.

That's how I felt.

For a while I was loving the game but I finally hit a wall and felt like I was pissing away valuable spare time.

The thing about the Souls games is that you can grind your way to progress which I appreciate. With Sekiro, I never felt all that much stronger.
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
Where is all this fervor around accessibility and options when pokemon releases yet another braindead easy game? the type of thinking should be held to all devs and not just cherry-picked on soulsborne devs.
Millions of people are desperate for a harder difficulty in Pokemon and people aren't shy about saying it. This is "whataboutism" in video game forum form, here. Both games would be well served by offering more options.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,631
You see a lot of the discussion focused around FROM games because people jump to their defense immediately since so many view their exact difficulty balance as integral to the experience, and difficulty can have a huge impact on this stuff. No one has it out for Sekiro, I promise you

But I mean there was a huge amount of discussion around the removal of options like the exp. share toggle, wonder trade, ect. in Pokemon. That's not exactly acceptability but it's in the spirit of opening games up and providing options. Also there were accessibility complaints when it came to Let's Go because of the mandatory motion controls, and Sword/Shield actually caught some praise because of its simplified control scheme options which allow it to be played with one hand
yet when more experienced gamers want a harder difficulty or more options to make the game more challenging, the defenders of gamefreak basically shut them down.

thats the issue i have here. the argument for options is generally shown to be one-sided and mostly focused on more intensive games, with anything else being written off.

Millions of people are desperate for a harder difficulty in Pokemon and people aren't shy about saying it. This is "whataboutism" in video game forum form, here. Both games would be well served by offering more options.
if people werent shy about it, then reviewers and online outlets wouldnt softball all their reviews
 

Jonathan Lanza

"I've made a Gigantic mistake"
Member
Feb 8, 2019
6,794
Of course it's not always concious, but the decisions the devs make are. It's not unexpected for people to play offline or not having PS+. That's something the devs obviously took into account. They don't have to take people into account that circumvent their entire gameplay loop by using trainers by adding god mode or modifiers.

Miyazaki's goal is to create an experience where everyone faces the same challenges. A sense of companionship between the people trying to overcome his challenges, having them lay down messages ingame, summon others, give each other tips online. Something that, for some weird reason, doesn't happen to the same extent with other games. I wonder why that is. That doesn't mean everyone engages with the games in that manner, but that doesn't change anything about Miyazaki's intent.
And all of those things would still be there if there were options. Every single one of em. All the companionship, all the ingame messages, all the tips online. All of em. None of them would go away. The goal would still be achieved. Someone above said it best but these are simply not mutual exclusives. You are thinking about these things in purely black and white. All of these things would still be there. Miyazaki would not fail his goal by adding them. He would still achieve it.

There are no downsides.
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
yet when more experienced gamers want a harder difficulty or more options to make the game more challenging, the defenders of gamefreak basically shut them down.

thats the issue i have here. the argument for options is generally shown to be one-sided and mostly focused on more intensive games, with anything else being written off.


if people werent shy about it, then reviewers and online outlets wouldnt softball all their reviews
Reviewers didn't pan Sekiro for being too hard. Most review the game it is it intended for its audience, and in Pokemon's case, that's easy/young.

Go into a Pokemon thread and see how many people want a harder difficulty. It would be massive. As it is, people are forced to follow arbitrary rulesets (Nuzlocke et al) to try and increase the challenge.
 

Alexhex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,881
Canada
yet when more experienced gamers want a harder difficulty or more options to make the game more challenging, the defenders of gamefreak basically shut them down.

thats the issue i have here. the argument for options is generally shown to be one-sided and mostly focused on more intensive games, with anything else being written off.
Like I'm not going to disagree with you there, pokemon discourse has been fucking brutal lately, with a lot of folks not caring that features other people made use of were removed. The discussion still happened though, folks were hugely upset and each bit of news was a Whole Thing every time

When it comes to accessibility specifically though, the discussion tends to centralize around more difficult games because they are typically exclusionary in more ways than easy games would be
 

CthulhuSars

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,906
And all of those things would still be there if there were options. Every single one of em. All the companionship, all the ingame messages, all the tips online. All of em. None of them would go away. The goal would still be achieved. Someone above said it best but these are simply not mutual exclusives. You are thinking about these things in purely black and white. All of these things would still be there. Miyazaki would not fail his goal by adding them. He would still achieve it.

There are no downsides.

How so? The idea is that every person that plays the game has the same challenge and that because every player has the same exact challenge it creates a community around that experience.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
And all of those things would still be there if there were options. Every single one of em. All the companionship, all the ingame messages, all the tips online. All of em. None of them would go away. The goal would still be achieved. Someone above said it best but these are simply not mutual exclusives. You are thinking about these things in purely black and white. All of these things would still be there. Miyazaki would not fail his goal by adding them. He would still achieve it.

There are no downsides.
It's like I'm talking to a brick wall lol. Have a nice day I guess.
 

Jonathan Lanza

"I've made a Gigantic mistake"
Member
Feb 8, 2019
6,794
How so? The idea is that every person that plays the game has the same challenge and that because every player has the same exact challenge it creates a community around that experience.
Because we already exist in a world where people are able to easily play these games and modify values and it hasn't effected any of that stuff.
 

DerpHause

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,379
Miyazaki would not fail his goal by adding them. He would still achieve it.

There are no downsides.

He clearly disagrees. He's also pretty good at directing game development apparently so there might be something to his insights that helped his games become what they are.

Because we already exist in a world where people are able to easily play these games and modify values and it hasn't effected any of that stuff.

I think the fact that this discussion exists proves that notion false. Some apparently have been affected and there is an entire body of work that is having a definite effect.
 

CthulhuSars

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,906
Because we already exist in a world where people are able to easily play these games and modify values and it hasn't effected any of that stuff.

Outside of PC, show me where this is happening?

Do you visit threads or forums about Yosemite and ask for elevators and easy access to be installed for all when it comes to mountain climbing?
 

Jonathan Lanza

"I've made a Gigantic mistake"
Member
Feb 8, 2019
6,794
Outside of PC, show me where this is happening?

Do you visit threads or forums aboutYosemite
You can't just say outside of PC because a huge part of the people who play these games are on PC. Each PC version has sold millions. PC is just as legitimate as a platform and is where many people are playing these games.

And even if you were to specifically look at PC you would still find that there are communities for the game even regarding the PC version.
 

Alexhex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,881
Canada
Outside of PC, show me where this is happening?

Do you visit threads or forums about Yosemite and ask for elevators and easy access to be installed for all when it comes to mountain climbing?
This already happens with any game that has difficulty options, or different builds, or even strategies

Like there is no uniform, baseline, objective way to compare an experience you had with a piece of art to another person's. That's just how art works, everyone's path through something is uniquely their own, even if we're talking about film or books or whatever.
 

Jonathan Lanza

"I've made a Gigantic mistake"
Member
Feb 8, 2019
6,794
He clearly disagrees. He's also pretty good at directing game development apparently so there might be something to his insights that helped his games become what they are.



I think the fact that this discussion exists proves that notion false. Some apparently have been affected and there is an entire body of work that is having a definite effect.
Who has been effected and how? Keep in mind you're saying that the existence of these options means that shared communities and assistance cannot be achieved.
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
Outside of PC, show me where this is happening?

Do you visit threads or forums about Yosemite and ask for elevators and easy access to be installed for all when it comes to mountain climbing?
First of all, an elevator wouldn't be an "easy mode" of Yosemite, it would be skipping to the end credits. There is no vestige of the original climbing experience there.

You also would not be able to carve in more handholds without ruining the original experience for climbers, because there is only one physical Yosemite. You'd have to open a alternate dimension Yosemite to do this, but if they could, cool.

Finally, you can get the base experience of rock climbing pretty much anywhere, and in much easier spots. Yosemite is not required.

People throw out some wild analogies in this thread.
 

DerpHause

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,379
Who has been effected and how? Keep in mind you're saying that the existence of these options means that shared communities and assistance cannot be achieved.

No, I'm not saying that. You're presenting it as a strawman. It's arguable that the development of those communities might be different had the game gone a different way but that's a future we'll never see.

Edit: Either way the fans are subject to the whims of the creator in what that creator provides and unless you can convince From that their success is wholly detached from their design ethos I'm not sure what your argument is going to be.
 
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