we are talking about a hobby where adding an option to reduce difficulty would not make the experience of other users worse.I'm unable to excel in calculus yet you don't see me bitching about how they should dumb it down for me. I'm somehow able to accept that thing is not for me. It's not hard to understand.
Accessibility has been an on-going topic for the last few years now, and it has been becoming a bigger and bigger topic each passing year. Video games are so very far behind even the most basic stuff every other medium has as a standard but we're starting to see some decent strides.Where are all the accessibilty arguments for other games? Why does it seem to only come up for From titles? Are From games somehow additionally exclusionary in ways other games are not in a non-difficulty context?
The vast majority of people are actually just having issues with the difficulty and instead of owning up to their inability to learn how to play the game, they instead piggy backed on issues with accessibility that applies to 90% of games.
You'll see that people claiming it to be an accesbility issue never state what the game is missing for them.
Accessibility has been an on-going topic for the last few years now, and it has been becoming a bigger and bigger topic each passing year. Video games are so very far behind even the most basic stuff every other medium has as a standard but we're starting to see some decent strides.
People don't have an issue with the concept of easy modes, it's with attempting to compel directors to add them when the original game was designed with a bespoke experience in mind.The reason the conversation is bigger around From titles is because it's the one fanbase that flips their shit about this.
Did anyone poop their pants about Bayonetta or DMC's automatic modes? Okay, there was some pants shitting, but it was done, the games still were awesome and in some cases are probably more complex than some of their forebears in the standard / hard modes.
Are you really comparing a video game to a study-I'm unable to excel in calculus yet you don't see me bitching about how they should dumb it down for me. I'm somehow able to accept that thing is not for me. It's not hard to understand.
let me get this straight: unless there is a thread about accessibility for every single major game release, we shouldn't ever talk about it?Boneworks is a big release in a niche VR market with major motion-sickness issues. Did I miss threads about Death Stranding or Modern Warfare too? What about Breath of the Wild or Pokemon?
Thank you. It's like people don't understand that you can love these games, and still want the developers to do better.As someone who platinum'd Sekiro, yeah fuck off with advocating lack of accessibility options.
You could fill in the blank with anything my dude. I suck at basketball, puzzle games, driving stick shift. I can try to improve at those or I can just accept that they are not for me.
let me get this straight: unless there is a thread about accessibility for every single major game release, we shouldn't ever talk about it?
If Miyazaki tomorrow announced Elden Ring will have an easy mode I would be fine with it.The reason the conversation is bigger around From titles is because it's the one fanbase that flips their shit about this.
Did anyone poop their pants about Bayonetta or DMC's automatic modes? Okay, there was some pants shitting, but it was done, the games still were awesome and in some cases are probably more complex than some of their forebears in the standard / hard modes.
Suspension of disbelief. We play many games where we kill a hundred or thousand of enemies.In-Game Text/Lore for final boss:
"Here beneath this weathered bridge lies Tonka, the Treacherous Taunk. For centuries Tonka found delight in devouring the spirits of a million warriors foolish enough to challenge him. With each death he grew stronger but now Tonka is seeking out battles himself, lurking in the shadows stalking his prey."
(Changes to very easy mode)
2 slashes later...
"Congratulations brave warrior for now you have finished what no other shinobi could."
What a bad faith argument. Calculus is an explanation for the way the world works. Video games are entertainment. Not only can the former not be changed to meet the needs of a particular individual, but there's no good reason why the latter can't.I'm unable to excel in calculus yet you don't see me bitching about how they should dumb it down for me. I'm somehow able to accept that thing is not for me. It's not hard to understand.
This argument is very dumb, my dude.You could fill in the blank with anything my dude. I suck at basketball, puzzle games, driving stick shift. I can try to improve at those or I can just accept that they are not for me.
That's exactly what the Kirby series is about. The whole thing is upbeat and chill and comfy which is reinforced by the low difficulty and ability to fly over 80% of the obstacles. It's basically the same situation but inverted.I hope people defending "artistic freedom" for making their games super hard keep that same energy when a game is "too easy"....
Don't both Bayonetta and DMC already have difficulty options?If Miyazaki tomorrow announced Elden Ring will have an easy mode I would be fine with it.
People telling him what to do, hell even demanding he implements difficulty options, are the people that show up nowhere else. Not in Bayo nor in DMC threads.
And no, neither Bayo nor DMC have to worry about stuff like bonfire and enemy placements in terms of their leveldesign. Deinfetly not more complex.
Thank you. It's like people don't understand that you can love these games, and still want the developers to do better.
no, we just have to constantly change the topic to "but why x game and not y game????" so we don't actually discuss the accessibility issue at handI'm not suggesting we have to silence all discussion about accessibility,
i literally just pointed out another big release that only days ago had a lengthy thread made about its accessibility issues and you said it didn't count because... "it was VR:?? and like, "when people complain about Boneworks accessibility, that's valid, but when people complain about Sekiro accessibility, that's wrong!!!!!" ...lol idk what to saybut can you explain why such threads only seem to get made for From games?
Well yeah, that was their argument. My argument is that they already made a decision to include them, and From simply made a different one. One that a lot of people apprechiate.
i never said it didn'tYes the conversation could have initially been purely about accessibility options, but if you are saying that the conversation didn't end up expanding (very quickly, I might add) to include discussion of difficulty and how that does/does not play a part in accessibility, then you're just wrong
that's literally what you're doing right now, yesAnd if you're going to be wrong, you can at least not be overly dismissive of the OP and act like they're stupid for believing otherwise.
Yup. Saw a lot of complaints about that one, Super Mario Odyssey as wellThat's exactly what the Kirby series is about. The whole thing is upbeat and chill and comfy which is reinforced by the low difficulty and ability to fly over 80% of the obstacles. It's basically the same situation but inverted.
What a reach. Nobody cares about bowling.This argument is very dumb, my dude.
First of all, you and your friends could play with the rim at a lower height, and it would take away no one else's enjoyment at all. Do you get tilted when bowling lanes offer bumpers, because "bowling just isn't for everyone"?
JFC.
I still don't really understand what's supposed to be so incredibly difficult about From's games... they just require patience, restraint and a cool headed approach, my SO is horrible at gaming and managed to beat Bloodborne after she learned to be patient. This is someone who can't even deal with having to move the camera in most games, for reference. Compared to stuff like the old Contra games or R-Type they're not hard in the slightest. I've been playing R-Type for almost 30 years at this point and it still consistently kicks my ass.
They're harder games than most, yes... but entirely fair and not even close to the impossible level of challenge most sell them as having.
i think its sort of like a direct compromising his vision by releasing a PG cut of an R rated movie.
easy mode should be up to the creator
Should an artist create 2 set of painting, one normal color an one for colorblind? NoNah, i think the director is an ass for it. No amount of artistic vision excuses being an asshole and excluding people.
Yup, same with Wind Waker or Okami. Love them.That's exactly what the Kirby series is about. The whole thing is upbeat and chill and comfy which is reinforced by the low difficulty and ability to fly over 80% of the obstacles. It's basically the same situation but inverted.
His argument being as illogical as it is makes it clear why he's bad at math.
If Miyazaki tomorrow announced Elden Ring will have an easy mode I would be fine with it.
People telling him what to do, hell even demanding he implements difficulty options or telling him he's an asshole for not doing it, are the people that show up nowhere else. Not in Bayo nor in DMC threads.
And no, neither Bayo nor DMC have to worry about stuff like bonfire and enemy placements in terms of their leveldesign. Definetly not more complex.
Fucking...what?
Most of those already have solutions though. Basketball can be played on any level, not everyone playing it is trying out for a NBA team. Special Olympics exists too. Puzzle games have shortcuts and automatic transmission exists. You're not really helping your argument here, lol.You could fill in the blank with anything my dude. I suck at basketball, puzzle games, driving stick shift. I can try to improve at those or I can just accept that they are not for me.
Snippety snap, that's ruthless. And rude!!His argument being as illogical as it is makes it clear why he's bad at math.
no, we just have to constantly change the topic to "but why x game and not y game????" so we don't actually discuss the accessibility issue at hand
i literally just pointed out another big release that only days ago had a lengthy thread made about its accessibility issues and you said it didn't count because... "it was VR:?? and like, "when people complain about Boneworks accessibility, that's valid, but when people complain about Sekiro accessibility, that's wrong!!!!!" ...lol idk what to say
No, I can't get behind this one. Often times it can take quite a bit to balance, but to my knowledge there exists a bell in the game that just flat boosts enemy's HP by a certain percentage to increase the difficulty.Variable difficulty is a pretty arduous task that severely imoacts dev time, balancing and testing. Id much rather have FROM continue to polish one experience to the level of quality we expect than the alternative.
More accesible options for players with handicaps are a must of course, but that goes for most games, especially ones with bigger budgets.
And a lot of people don't appreciate it. You know what it's called when you don't think something is a particularly big deal because it doesn't personally affect you? Privelege. Consider that someone people might feel differently, it might be important to them. They might want to play the VGA GOTY 2019 but can't because they are just having too hard of a time with the reflexes currently being asked of them by the game. Who are you or anyone to tell them that they're SOL?Well yeah, that was their argument. My argument is that they already made a decision to include them, and From simply made a different one. One that a lot of people apprechiate.
I don't like the "artistic freedom" argument in general because that could theoretically be argued for developers doing problematic content.
Of course, this isn't the case with difficulty options, but just something to be mindful of.
As for the topic at hand, if FROM Software was interested in adding accessibility options, it would in no way hurt the difficulty because they'd be just options. When Celeste added those settings, no one stopped saying it was a difficult game or started saying it was easier. The only outcome of that was that more people were able to play it. I can't see any argument that convinces me that more people playing a game they want to is a bad thing.
Huh? They could just open the parry window to be huge on easy mode. Let everyone feel like they're good at gaming or parrying, that's what they want. The satisfaction without putting in the time to better themselves. Everyone wants to be good at shit even if they fucking suck.Personal hot take but I'll throw it around regardless: for how combat is designed in Sekiro, a traditional difficulty selector wouldn't do much good for those who struggle. The game requires you to engage with combat in a very specific way and dying in 4 hits instead of 2 wouldn't alleviate the problem. It would require a much more serious overhaul, lot of testing and work. I'm happy if the devs want to do it, but resources are limited. At some point I'd personally rather have more/better content. It's a selfish decision though and I'm totally ok with people disagreeing about this one.
This sooo much :)
Feels more like the normal mode to me. Many games these days, especially in the AAA section, are way too easy, if you choose their recommended/default/normal/medium difficulty. Sometimes to the point that the game gets boring/feels super brain dead, pretty fast in some of my experienced cases.
Are you serious right now.Imagine telling Scorcese that he should tone down the F-bombs and murder in his movies so they are more accessible to a wider audience
Imagine not understanding that there exist censored versions of his films, so that people can choose which version they'd like to watch and enjoy it without having to worry about what other people want.Imagine telling Scorcese that he should tone down the F-bombs and murder in his movies so they are more accessible to a wider audience
Speaking as someone completely stonewalled at the penultimate boss of the game, the designers are telling me I'm SOL, and I'm totally okay with it. Is that privilege? If so, oh well.And a lot of people don't appreciate it. You know what it's called when you don't think something is a particularly big deal because it doesn't personally affect you? Privelege. Consider that someone people might feel differently, it might be important to them. They might want to play the VGA GOTY 2019 but can't because they are just having too hard of a time with the reflexes currently being asked of them by the game. Who are you or anyone to tell them that they're SOL?
Calculus itself was invented to simplify a series of complex math problems. If there was another way to simplify calculus further, trust me someone would've done it by now. People don't use calculus for a "challenge" or "fun" or "artistic integrity".I'm unable to excel in calculus yet you don't see me bitching about how they should dumb it down for me. I'm somehow able to accept that thing is not for me. It's not hard to understand.
It sucks if you're really into the story and lore. I feel a little special to be among the 10% on Xbox that beat the game and got to experience everything. At the same time I feel really bad for those that gave up.Has gatekeeping has become a part of a FROM game's cultural identity? "I beat Bloodborne" or "I beat Sekiro" is something you can say and people immediately understand the level of perseverance and dedication required. "Git gud" is such an intrinsic part of FROM games and the discourse around them.